Talk to me about the Guru Praemio

[huck*this]

Well on the hunt for a Ti bike and this came up. Looking for a Ti bike I can still hammer on and doesn't feel like a tank.
https://www.gracebicycles.com/merchant/963/images/site/GuruPraemio.jpeg

What can you guys tell me about it? Other options are a Seven Odonato or a Moots Vamoots and Compact or Litespeed T1SL

Thanks guys in advance for any and all help as I don't know much about Ti. Just know there is crap out there and don't want to be stuck with that.

Cheers

[tuxbailey]

I like mine. It is very well built and good looking. Although I am not very strong to really "hammer" it. it is a nice bike and I am surprised it doesn't have a larger "following" than other well known Ti bikes.

It is quite stiff but I am on the heavy side so it balances out. Maybe it has to do with the "R" designation.

https://tuxbailey.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p2725277629-5.jpg

[charliedid]

I've only test ridden a few times but never owned. I don't ride race bikes so my impression is...

Stiff,fast,scary twitchy race bike. If you like that you'll love it.

[duff_duffy]

I had one a few years ago....at 170lbs back then it was plenty stiff. The build quality was on par with most of the other reputable titanium builders of the day. I’d say go for it.

[duff_duffy]

Also....the Seven maybe tough to predict the stiffness on as most are custom made to original rider and you may get different feel depending on the bike but I guarantee the build quality will be top notch. Moots are built amazing as well but you may not like the dull titanium finish. Personally I’d put Litespeed at the bottom end of the list you mentioned. My last one had sloppy welds, road fine but when spending that kind of money expect everything to be good (had other Litesoeeds that were fine though so may have been isolated issue).

I had one a few years ago....at 170lbs back then it was plenty stiff. The build quality was on par with most of the other reputable titanium builders of the day. I’d say go for it.

[StanleySteamer]

I have a Guru VelociTi bike that I like very much (this model that preceeded the Praemio frame). It also has the same compact frame geo as the Praemio and can handle 28 mm Conti tires. Bike is a little stiffer than my Moots Vamoots, and I often use it to ride on gravel roads.

The only concern I would have about the Praemio is replacing alloy bits in the rear dropouts.

[jghall]

[QUOTE=Maybe it has to do with the "R" designation.Quote]

Pretty bike Tux.

It's my understanding the "R" stood for Race. So they oversized the tubing to make the frame stiffer, racier, etc.

Not owned, but have ridden a few. All been nice and would not hesitate to purchase. Worse thing would maybe be resale. Then again, just about everything sucks with that now days.

[Blue Jays]

Worse thing would maybe be resale.
That is why I don’t purchase nice bicycles with the primary concern being resale and/or resale value. Purchase a well-fitted and well-made bike to enjoy.

[Exonerv]

I test rode a Praemio several years ago and liked it a lot. The dealer was going out of business. We could never agree on terms so the deal fell through, but the bike rode great.

Like a lot of bike manufacturers, Guru has gone through a few changes and the original owners have moved on and started their own business.

There was also a period when folks were expressing concerns over the welds on their Ti bikes.

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2016/01/04/guru-declares-bankruptcy#.XC0Ruymd5wh

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2017/04/21/guru-cyles-founder-leads-new-titanium-bike-brand-and-carbon-repair-business#.XC0Riymd5wg

https://forums.mtbr.com/frame-building/did-anyone-else-notice-guru-ti-welding-891086.html

I ultimately chose to go with a "new to me" Dean El Diente and have been very happy with my choice.

[tuxbailey]

The only concern I would have about the Praemio is replacing alloy bits in the rear dropouts.

I was concerned too so I bought a spare set :)

One of the painters who worked at Guru acquired their original designs and sells them through his facebook page as well as eBay.

https://www.facebook.com/Insayne-Kustomz-Inc-1408864016035283/

or

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Guru-Praemio-Sidero-G-UNIT-derailleur-hanger-UPGRADED/143038384129?hash=item214dc08801:g:eYIAAOSwk9dZm3N D:rk:1:pf:0


Good insurance for $100. It will aid resale value should I want to sell my bike later.

[glepore]

Echo the above, the Guru is on the racier side of the spectrum, not that that's bad necessarily.

I happen to really like the t1sl. You'll pay retail though, rare on the used scene. You're over on weenies enough to know that its pretty well loved over there.

The Moots a grail if like matte finish. Can't go wrong. But again, premium pricing.

Seven. Excellent build quality. But each bike is custom, so the used market takes some analysis. There's a nice 622 slx on the bay now, but it might be big for you, and its new so its almost all the money. The shop that handles Seven's samples and exchanges usually has something interesting.

[Hilltopperny]

I have owned everything from Moots (vamoots, Rsl, route), Lynskey ( R350, Helix Sport disc), Serotta (concours) and now No22 (Drifter and Great divide). The Praemio R that tux now owns was probably the stiffest and raciest of the bikes and felt a bit quicker handling.

The Praemio was a little less race oriented and still a nice bike. The quality of the Guru was on point with all other top level titanium bikes I've seen.

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[kingpin75s]

Rode a 2003 Guru Veloci'Ti, which is the predecessor to the Praemio, for 10 years as my primary road bike.

The Guru Ti work was generally high quality and historically under the radar on the secondary market so often a good value if you look.

If the Praemio carried any of the traits from the Velocity'Ti, I expect that it is on the lighter end of Ti road frames and is stiff enough under power while providing good comfort over the long haul.

I would not expect it to feel like a tank and should be hammer capable.

[KarlC]

Echo the above, the Guru is on the racier side of the spectrum, not that that's bad necessarily.

I happen to really like the t1sl. You'll pay retail though, rare on the used scene. You're over on weenies enough to know that its pretty well loved over there.

The Moots a grail if like matte finish. Can't go wrong. But again, premium pricing.

Seven. Excellent build quality. But each bike is custom, so the used market takes some analysis. There's a nice 622 slx on the bay now, but it might be big for you, and its new so its almost all the money. The shop that handles Seven's samples and exchanges usually has something interesting.

Dang that looks great I love how Di2 alows the details of the frame to show more.

Kinda cool with the level TT but that HT looks oldly small ?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F12 3574120641

.

[glepore]

Yeah, but 8k for a bike is tough to accept in this market. But she’s a beaut.


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[Joe Remi]

Dang that looks great I love how Di2 alows the details of the frame to show more.

Kinda cool with the level TT but that HT looks oldly small ?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F12 3574120641

.

That ad is kinda funky. It's a 51cm ST, which would account for the short HT. I question the "effective" TT number on a level tube.

[huck*this]

So looking all very positive on the Guru. Should I search more for an "R" or is there not much difference.

[Joe Remi]

Probably not super helpful, but I have a Seven Alaris SG, currently known as Axiom S. Straight gauge ti built to a medium stiffness spec. I weigh 190 and it's a magical mix of stiff and comfortable, I don't know how they do it.

[Hilltopperny]

So looking all very positive on the Guru. Should I search more for an "R" or is there not much difference.If you want 1" chainstays that are shorter and have stiffer ride look at the R. If you are just looking for a great ride, but not as aggressive then look at the Praemio.

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[charliedid]

If you want 1" chainstays that are shorter and have stiffer ride look at the R. If you are just looking for a great ride, but not as aggressive then look at the Praemio.

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Good point about the R. I forgot about that.

[Alaska Mike]

For what it’s worth, I’m a big fan of the Moots Compact as a versatile road bike. I’m currently building a Vamoots RSL based on that extremely positive experience.

Ti has really dropped since Lynskey started dumping frames on eBay a couple years ago. Some brands and models hold their value a little better, but they have all taken a hit.

Bottom line- buy what inspires you to ride.

[KarlC]

That ad is kinda funky. It's a 51cm ST, which would account for the short HT. I question the "effective" TT number on a level tube.

Yes I agree .........


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7901/45856239954_a773fff19d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2cSadwN)