So I just bought a Rawland xSogn from Walmart

[TREEfool]

Yup. I mean ***? I have been parting out and selling all of my bikes considering I had two huge life changes (a baby and moving to the middle of nowhere). For the past five weeks I have been making a list of parts to build a one-bike does it all rig when I stumbled upon a google advertisement for a Rawland Bike.

I have always wanted to know what low trail bikes feel like and based on what I've read online it is something that would fit my style of riding perfectly. So after my "why the hell is walmart selling a small botique bike manufacture" moment I decided to order one. I mean, they are selling an entire bike cheaper than the price of the frames on the rawland website if I remember correctly.

So this thread will serve as my way of documenting this weird purchase. I will let you guys know what I think of the low trail and answer questions about low trail that I have been unable to find online for myself. Worst case scenario is the bike is a dud and I return it.


My fingers are crossed that you guys don't come back and say that there is a thread hiding on this forum telling everyone to stay away from this too good to be true bike sale. ;)

Edit, here is a short video of her maiden voyage. It was a cold and muddy ride through south eastern South Dakota

https://youtu.be/IadWe738gu4ttps://youtu.be/IadWe738gu4

[weisan]

tree pal, look forward to update with your build and ride impressions. This is the link that alerted us to this offer initially.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=231015

[TREEfool]

tree pal, look forward to update with your build and ride impressions. This is the link that alerted us to this offer initially.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=231015


Thank you for the link!

[TREEfool]

It arrived. I am truly blown away. When I opened the box it was NOT a knock-off like I was expecting, haha. Aside from spending an hour figuring out a problem with the shifting (a rear deraileur cog had a bent tooth, weird) I set it up in about 8 minutes.

I am not exagerating when I say it is everything that I imagined a low trail bike with fat road tires would be. It felt like I was riding a road boke but the tires are 47mm! The handling is unbelievable. I was also very happy to find that it handles great even without a front load.

I will update with photos and more info soon. I cant believe I bought this bike from walmart for $900!!!!!!!!!!!

[TREEfool]

Here it is. The box was insanely huge. It barely fit in my wife's Subaru Outback. I will be taking it on a long gravel ride tomorrow assuming it isnt icy. The brakes leave something to be desired and I am surprised by how annoying it is to shift with a bar end shifter. I am going to try hacking my longpull Gevenalle brakes to accept the sram bar end. Wish me luck!

[R3awak3n]

your best upgrade to that bike would be a set of sram hydro brakes. Then you could have proper shifters (I am with you, bar ends suck) and you could have awesome brakes (cable disc brakes suck).

Nice pickup great deal.

[TREEfool]

Oh and I forgot to mention the epic headbadge. Plus check out the photo of the bent cog. The deraileur was perfectly fine but the cog was clicking so bad it would cause the chain to skip on the cassette.

[TREEfool]

your best upgrade to that bike would be a set of sram hydro brakes.

Man I agree with you. Hydraluic brakes (and suspension forks!) are the one thing that I don't know much about so I fear putting them on my bike because of the learning curve. I also had this wierd opinion that hydros would not be good for bikepacking but perhaps this is an irrational belief based on a braking system I am unfamiliar with.

[R3awak3n]

Man I agree with you. Hydraluic brakes (and suspension forks!) are the one thing that I don't know much about so I fear putting them on my bike because of the learning curve. I also had this wierd opinion that hydros would not be good for bikepacking but perhaps this is an irrational belief based on a braking system I am unfamiliar with.

I understand that concern but most bikepacking that is done on mtb has hydros. They are actually not bad aftwr you install and bleed but the break power and modulation is unmatched.

[lugee]

I am really surprised these haven't sold out. I have seen Reddit posts of the Walmart Rawland being legitimate. Been watching it for a while...

[TREEfool]

I am really surprised these haven't sold out. I have seen Reddit posts of the Walmart Rawland being legitimate. Been watching it for a while...


I know! Especially considering the Rawland website was always sold out whenever I visited it over the past few years.

I want to buy a second and use it for replacement parts! Haha. it would probably be cheaper at this price.

[lugee]

I know! Especially considering the Rawland website was always sold out whenever I visited it over the past few years.

I want to buy a second and use it for replacement parts! Haha. it would probably be cheaper at this price.

I'm tempted to buy it. But all my bikes are sort of similar. What size is that frame?

[jasonification]

what's the size and weight of the xSogn like? super tempted..

[R3awak3n]

I am going to guess prett high 20s. Heavyish steel, heavier wheels and discs. But I bet the bike doesnt ride its weight / for $900 that is not bad weight for this kind of bike

[Ronsonic]

Man I agree with you. Hydraluic brakes (and suspension forks!) are the one thing that I don't know much about so I fear putting them on my bike because of the learning curve. I also had this wierd opinion that hydros would not be good for bikepacking but perhaps this is an irrational belief based on a braking system I am unfamiliar with.

Hydro's are fine. At least the Shimano stuff and probably others. They go together pretty painlessly, install, bleed and forget. Slight learning curve, no worse than learning to deal with cables and housing. You'll learn to like the feel real quick.

[pbarry]

Great Thread.

There are 20-70 people here wanting to buy yet waiting for a newbie to pull the trigger and report back. :)

[CMiller]

I just see a lot of people going down an upgrade rabbit hole and it not being so good of a deal anymore haha

[R3awak3n]

I just see a lot of people going down an upgrade rabbit hole and it not being so good of a deal anymore haha

lol. tis true.

but to me the only thing I would upgrade is the shifters/brakes... That probably cost $250 (sell the old ones and probably make $100). Saddle would be another upgrade but any bike I would buy I would put my own saddle.

Wheels would be the last thing to upgrade but you can rock those wheels for a while without any problems so $900 + $250 for hydro setup, at $1150 still a pretty decent deal.

[Clean39T]

I just see a lot of people going down an upgrade rabbit hole and it not being so good of a deal anymore hahaThat's why I held off - I knew I'd get the -itis and end up spending $2k+ before all was said and done...

This is perfect for someone who can be satisfied with what works and leave good enough alone.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[TREEfool]

I'm tempted to buy it. But all my bikes are sort of similar. What size is that frame?

Frame size Large

what's the size and weight of the xSogn like? super tempted..

I have a gram scale for measuring parts individually but not a bike scale :/. I would guess that it weighs mid 25lbs based on the weights of my other bike. When I make it to my lbs I will get a real weight.

[TREEfool]

Hydro's are fine. At least the Shimano stuff and probably others. They go together pretty painlessly, install, bleed and forget. Slight learning curve, no worse than learning to deal with cables and housing. You'll learn to like the feel real quick.

I am sure it would be relatively easy to learn but one of the big reasons why I am afraid of going the hydro route is I ride in SD in sub zero temps. I have never had a problem with my mechanical disk brakes but i have heard many online anectodal stories that hydros suck really bad in severe cold.

[pjbaz]

I am sure it would be relatively easy to learn but one of the big reasons why I am afraid of going the hydro route is I ride in SD in sub zero temps. I have never had a problem with my mechanical disk brakes but i have heard many online anectodal stories that hydros suck really bad in severe cold.

I read you need to use different oil (mineral oil?) in super low temps.

[TREEfool]

That's why I held off - I knew I'd get the -itis and end up spending $2k+ before all was said and done...

This is perfect for someone who can be satisfied with what works and leave good enough alone.



Yup. I sold all my bikes with the plan to build the perfect bike from scratch :)

When I jumped on the Rawland xSogn I planned to switch to Gevenalle shifters (but they don't work with sram so I would have to buy a deraileur), switch out to a stronger brake caliper, build a custom wheelset (to save a few grams?), and buy some super light tires.

But after my first gravel ride yesterday I realized how wastefully superficial this is. The bike road unbelievably well and I didn't notice the few extra pounds over my old alum/carb cross bike. So how pointless would it be to drop another $600-1000 for a slightly better ride when there are millions of kids around the world who can't even afford food?

I was looking at the calipers and it actually appears that they are a cheap version of the TRP spyres. Both pads move towards the center which I thought was only found on much more expensive mechanical calipers.

And to be honest, after about 10 miles I was loving the bar end shifter. If I was trying to keep up with a fast group or in a race I would definitely want sti shifters but for bikepacking and long solo gravel rides (the only thing I will be doing here in the middle of nowhere SD!) they will work amazing.

I am keeping it as is and gonna ride the crud out of it. What is the saying? Don't buy upgrades, ride upgrades?

[TREEfool]

Her maiden voyage. 30 mile grav... er... mud ride.

I run a climbing/bikepacking YouTube channel and am currently editing a ride report to show everyone how legit this bike is. I can't imagine that there are many left at Walmart so if you are on the fence I would jump on it before I release the video and everyone realizes how amazing this deal is.

[lugee]

I am keeping it as is and gonna ride the crud out of it. What is the saying? Don't buy upgrades, ride upgrades?

That's what I intend to do with it. I'm struggling with the purchase because this would be my third gravel adventure bike in my stable!

[cinema]

Can someone educate me on why the headtube is so short

[m4rk540]

Can someone educate me on why the headtube is so short

Because the fork is long? Though the axle to crown doesn't look unusual.

[TREEfool]

Can someone educate me on why the headtube is so short

The bike has some wierd numbers for sure. The stack was about 10 mm shorter then the shortest frame stack I have been looking at while the reach was about fifteen mm longer then the same frame. I hate having tons of spacers but I must admit that I think it would look kind of weird having an upward sloping top tube on this bike. I quite like the classic-ish lines.

[velofinds]

Her maiden voyage. 30 mile grav... er... mud ride.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697972530&stc=1&d=1546791303


Is that Colorado?

[Mikeys]

I ordered one and after several attempts cancelled the order (once it arrived to my local store). Seemed like a good deal but I didn't need it and a similar fame showed up that I would rather have. Was going to strip and rebuild the Rawland anyway.

That being said. You don't need hydro brakes. Just get some TRP Spyre's and Jagwire compressionless housing. Works great

[dddd]

They're still available, medium is 999.

I bought my 650b MTB from WalMart's site, after a few of their stores closed and had returned bikes in beat-up boxes.
Originally listed for $399, one day they appeared for just $179 and I pulled the trigger.
I did spend as much upgrading the fork alone, and also used my parts stash to upgrade the brakes, rear derailer and drivetrain, but the bike is real and handles all of my singletrak rides easily. I now use a 2.4" DH rear tire and run 21psi front and rear, appropriate for the slippery hardpack conditions here.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8572/27605932283_6bdc467468_c.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5622/30977693802_dd5a7b8c0b_c.jpg

[TREEfool]

Is that Colorado?

South Dakota.




.... so after I removed the brake calipers I realized that they are not dual-piston like trp spyres. That would have been great but I was definitely wrong. I tore open the bar end shifter and my gevenalle shifter to see if I could hack them together. I think it might work with a bit of dremel work so I'm going to give it a shot.

Wish me luck!

[R3awak3n]

South Dakota.




.... so after I removed the brake calipers I realized that they are not dual-piston like trp spyres. That would have been great but I was definitely wrong. I tore open the bar end shifter and my gevenalle shifter to see if I could hack them together. I think it might work with a bit of dremel work so I'm going to give it a shot.

Wish me luck!

Dual piston brake calipers are easier to setup but in my experience do not offer more stoping power. Actually, apparently the best cable brakes are Paul Klampers and they are not dual pivots.

[lugee]

South Dakota.




.... so after I removed the brake calipers I realized that they are not dual-piston like trp spyres. That would have been great but I was definitely wrong. I tore open the bar end shifter and my gevenalle shifter to see if I could hack them together. I think it might work with a bit of dremel work so I'm going to give it a shot.

Wish me luck!

Definitely doable. Sellwood cycles posted about it but didn't provide much info. I looked into it a while back since I have a ton of sram stuff, but ended up using Shimano with my gevenalles.

http://blog.sellwoodcycle.com/back-from-the-dead-sram-meets-gevenalle/

[TREEfool]

Definitely doable. Sellwood cycles posted about it but didn't provide much info. I looked into it a while back since I have a ton of sram stuff, but ended up using Shimano with my gevenalles.

http://blog.sellwoodcycle.com/back-from-the-dead-sram-meets-gevenalle/

Yes this is what gave me the inspiration to try. But upon opening it up (and looking at their photos I don't know how the heck they "dremeled" it. The whole on the gevenalle is bigger than the chunk of metal on the sram that it should accept. they must have some epic fab skills to do this. I don't think I want to risk ruining a $150 shifter haha.

[TREEfool]

Update! Short video of her maiden voyage. Gravel, mud, and snow:

https://youtu.be/IadWe738gu4

[heartattackride]

Great video. I loved your stoke! You’re as happy as a kid in Christmas.

[R3awak3n]

your awesome. nice vid. subscribed.

also, on rack and low trail... I have heard that many times and ran a rack when I had my low trail bike.... till the day I didn't and the bike was fantastic without the rack. Actually i liked it more because less weight and felt a bit more lively imo.

I agree 100% low trail bikes are so good... Miss having one.

[roguedog]

That was an awesome video. Love it. Hmm... intrigued.

[TREEfool]

Haha! I was indeed quite stoked. And thanks for the kind words. I am glad you guys enjoyed the video!

[redir]

It certainly does look like the right kind of bike for your neck of the woods.

What makes a 'low trail' bike a low trail bike?

[TREEfool]

It certainly does look like the right kind of bike for your neck of the woods.

What makes a 'low trail' bike a low trail bike?

Steep head tube angle (73°) and huge amounts of rake (70mm)

[dddd]

Steep head tube angle (73°) and huge amounts of rake (70mm)

I wonder if it would be more correct to say that it's the amount of rake relative to the frame's headtube angle(?).

I can still remember playing with stem length on this monster in an effort to calm it's quick steering. With 71-degree frame angles and lots of fork rake, I had to increase the stem length out from 80mm to 110mm, at which point the bike had a steering feel similar to the many other road bikes that I ride.

So I am thinking that it is low trail.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8087/8400149147_504e22f069_c.jpg

[Spaceman Spiff]

TREEfool, how tall are you?

I'm tempted to buy one of these and I'm not sure if I should get the medium or large. I usually ride a 55/56, so I originally thought I'd go with the medium. But I'm not sure if the low trail geo changes things. The medium has such a low stack. Even the large has less stack than my 55 cm endurance road bike.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[TREEfool]

yes, the geometry is very weird relative to my past bikes. I am 6' 1.5" and I bought a large. The reach was longer than any gravel bikes I was looking at while the stack was shorter than any of them.

I used the full length of steerer tube and I have a 90mm stem at 45°. My seat is still about an inch higher than the bars.

[TREEfool]

I have been working on some prototype handlebar bags for bikepacking. I make custom bike bags for ZeptoGear.com but this is my first attempt at a big handlebar bag.

AND IT'S BIG!

Based on the dimensions it's about 30 L and I was just totally blown away by how amazing it felt. I have ridden many bikes in the past with a heavy front load and it always feels horrible to steer but on this bike it felt like the handling barely even changed! I had it loaded up with about 15 lb.

Man I love this bike! I I'm taking it bikepacking next weekend as soon as I finish the rest of the frame bags. I will let you guys know how it goes and I will post some pictures.

[jasonification]

I have been working on some prototype handlebar bags for bikepacking. I make custom bike bags for ZeptoGear.com but this is my first attempt at a big handlebar bag.

AND IT'S BIG!

Based on the dimensions it's about 30 L and I was just totally blown away by how amazing it felt. I have ridden many bikes in the past with a heavy front load and it always feels horrible to steer but on this bike it felt like the handling barely even changed! I had it loaded up with about 15 lb.

Man I love this bike! I I'm taking it bikepacking next weekend as soon as I finish the rest of the frame bags. I will let you guys know how it goes and I will post some pictures.

That looks great and exciting!