OT: Paint for kitchen Cabinets

[Tony]

We have oak cabinets in excellent shape. I've talked my wife into painting them instead of replacing. I know what prep is needed however I'm not sure what paint. I want to use a water based paint, looking at Zinsser 123 or Kilz Max for primers and for paint several, Behr Alkyd semi gloss enamel, Sherwin Williams Pro Classic, Valspar Cabinet enamel. I'm not spraying, using high quality brushes and rollers. Any recommendation on best paint for this project?
Thanks

[MattTuck]

Are you doing it all yourself? We have oak cabinets in our kitchen as well, and my wife keeps reminding me how much better the kitchen would look if we could paint them.

Will be curious how your experience goes.

Not a painter, but I know a few, one of them is convinced Benjamin Moore makes the best paint, so maybe consider their Advance product. Another thinks that Benjamin Moore makes the best colors, so he uses the Benjamin Moore color pallate for designing, but then gets the paint made by another company. I think he uses PPG, but could be wrong.

So, take that for what you will. The paint is probably the least of the issues with Oak cabinets. All the prep to eliminate the grain is the real trick.

Good luck.

[buddybikes]

Why not some sort of a stain to keep the nice wood grain or texture: http://rockitsciencesf.com/homjng15558/15584JnKHYP/

an example.

[Hilltopperny]

I've had the best luck with Benjamin Moore paint. Just make sure to prep correctly. If the surface isn't sanded enough the paint will come off from contact pretty easily.

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[AngryScientist]

I've had the best luck with Benjamin Moore paint. Just make sure to prep correctly. If the surface isn't sanded enough the paint will come off from contact pretty easily.

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+1 to benny moore.

i've done a few finishing projects in my old house, and the difference in quality between good benjamin moore paint and the cheaper lowes or home depot stuff is night/day.

also, i have found that the local benny moore stores as well as sherwin williams usually have pretty knowledgeable staff that can help you along with the final choice.

i think the highest grade stuff from both BM and SW are very good and you will be good with either if your prep is good.

i think you should choose one of the above and get the primer from the same mfg you get the finish paint. dont mess with a cheaper primer, go with a complete system for the best quality and durability IMO.

[zennmotion]

For old cabinets that presumeably have some stains, prime with oil-based Kilz to keep them from bleeding through the new paint, works much better than the water based Kilz. There is an odorless version of oil based Kilz but it's not as effective, you need the real stuff in the brown can. You can then coat with ordinary water based latex. It's worth the trouble for a long lasting paint job for hard wearing cabinets. Warning though, the stuff stinks, open the windows and use a mask or paint outdoors if possible. This was trusted advice given to me by a contractor, where we did some DIY to save $$$ on a kitchen remodel

[bikinchris]

Good paint painted with good quality brushes is great, but surface prep is the most important thing to paint adhesion and ultimate quality. Using sanding blocks and scuff pads in small places, then patient coats of paint, not slopping it on in globs. All of the paints you listed are excellent quality. Sherwin Williams being my favorite.

[Jere]

We have oak cabinets in excellent shape. I've talked my wife into painting them instead of replacing. I know what prep is needed however I'm not sure what paint. I want to use a water based paint, looking at Zinsser 123 or Kilz Max for primers and for paint several, Behr Alkyd semi gloss enamel, Sherwin Williams Pro Classic, Valspar Cabinet enamel. I'm not spraying, using high quality brushes and rollers. Any recommendation on best paint for this project?
Thanks


Hi
Prep Prep Prep
Krud kutter first and get all the grease/ Oil off

https://www.amazon.com/Krud-Kutter-KK012-Concentrated-Degreaser-x/dp/B005FMZ40Y/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1546054686&sr=8-3&keywords=krud+kutters

Sand and repair cracks or imperfections using Auto body repair puddy the PITA
Mix type
I use a power small 4 “ hand sander
Close off the area with plastic and wear breathing protection.
If you can remove doos and draws fronts and set up in a garage be sure to look for numbers stamped on each so you can reinstall easier
The stamping tools are very cheap and will save you hours of headache if not numbered
Prime with the best paint you can afford that is compatible with the top coat
You will see the imperfections puddy sand repeat
Stay away from the box store paint
Think of how much time it will take than figure x 4
Personally I would spray not brush but that is a lot of tapping off,cleaning and skill but I’m from the old days we used Oil base paint.
Good luck
Jere B

[alancw3]

from a prior post i made several months ago:


recently saw this "ask this old house" episode on a new paint for kitchen cabinets which requires much less prep work. could be an interim solution until being able to do a complete cabinet upgrade:

[url]https://www.thisoldhouse.com/how-to/how-to-update-kitchen-paint[/url
__________________

[Tickdoc]

Painted cabinets are all the rage....white painted cabinets no less. I fight with my wife all the time because I don't want to update ours to painted white. Our cabinets are maple with a nice honey color stain and tiger striping in places that is just really pretty.

I might lose that battle if we ever move and have to follow the herd, but for now, I'm standing firm.

[superbowlpats]

Our cabs are painted with BM's Satin Impervo. It's oil based but I understand they make a waterborne version. I have yet to find a water based paint that can match the finish quality of oil.

[buddybikes]

>>Painted cabinets are all the rage....white painted cabinets no less. I fight with my wife all the time because I don't want to update ours to painted white. Our cabinets are maple with a nice honey color stain and tiger striping in places that is just really pretty.


Are there other, simplier and more changable down the road options to update look, like backsplaces?

[rwsaunders]

Oak typically has a pretty heavy grain as compared to maple, so after you find your paint of choice, I’d suggest painting a sample area to see if you’re comfortable with any telegraphing that might occur. Try to locate a “test door” at Home Depot or a cabinet shop of similar grain for instance. As soon as you start to prep your first cabinet you’re committed to a pretty involved project, so a sample is pretty important.

[paredown]

Agree with the thorough cleaning, if they are glossy, I would knock down the finish a little with some fine sandpaper to give some tooth--and I like to finish with a damp cloth with 50% alcohol/50% distilled water.

Then for primer--I used this on the recommendation of the guys at our local paint store-- Stix. The project was to paint a bunch of donated mismatched clear finish doors at the last Habitat house.

The application is a little funny--it sets up really fast, and does not flow, but by god it sticks and covers like crazy--Stix

https://jclicht.com/the-best-bonding-primer-you-can-buy-stix-acrylic-primer/

If you want grain free, you can fill oak--use a filler but it is a pretty big job:

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/make-wood-grain-disappear-painting-44517.html

I'd say go for it--my lovely wife redid a kitchen in her first house with no budget--painted everything including the fridge and it looked great--gave them a decade more before it was redone.

[Tickdoc]

Backsplashes? Yes, that would do, but ours are volcanic subway tiles that are really cool and still pretty relevant. Our granite is dark and outdated and that is the Easier thing to update.

Back to op, oil based is way better for cabinets. Cabinets are not easy to paint unless they are prepped well ie removed all panels and hardware. There is a reason why when new houses are built the cabinets are half installed and painted in the garage for a nice uniform finish.

[paredown]

Backsplashes? Yes, that would do, but ours are volcanic subway tiles that are really cool and still pretty relevant. Our granite is dark and outdated and that is the Easier thing to update.

Back to op, oil based is way better for cabinets. Cabinets are not easy to paint unless they are prepped well ie removed all panels and hardware. There is a reason why when new houses are built the cabinets are half installed and painted in the garage for a nice uniform finish.

I'm in the minority on this--but with all the low VOC requirements, the oil paints of today don't set up and cure as well as those of bygone days. I have had lots of trouble getting a durable finish on doors (for example) using Benjamin Moore exterior enamel.

Here's a good rant:
http://www.paintsource.net/pages/solutions/oil_or_acrylic.htm

[Tommasini53]

I've had the best luck with Benjamin Moore paint. Just make sure to prep correctly. If the surface isn't sanded enough the paint will come off from contact pretty easily.

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+1 on Been Moore very much worth the money.
I used it on our kitchen cabinets. Look at the "Advance" product line. 4 years on ...still looks great. Listen to some music or podcasts and take your time.

[Hindmost]

In the kitchen environment thorough cleaning of the surfaces is highly recommended to begin. Concentrated tsp. Nothing better.

Going to require a high quality brush and good technique to lay on the paint. Maybe even sanding between coats. Doors laid flat can really help.

I am reminded of those home improvement shows were they discover good quality woodwork underneath old paint and proceeded to strip the paint and refinish it all.

[54ny77]

Find a good oil base enamel (if you can) and use penetrol to "thin" the paint per specific mixing instructions. Also pay close attention to the humidity and temperature of the room you're painting in, that greatly impacts the paint adhesion and flow characteristics.

I painted a large built in entertainment unit in the living room with oil enamel, brush and microfiber roller. Sheen was just about perfect, it looked like it was sprayed . Not easy, it took 3-4 coats.

would i do it again? Sure.....if I paid someone to do it!!!!

[classtimesailer]

30 years ago, oil was king. I recently made some new built ins and painted them with Benjamin Moore Advance $$$$$ water based. Goes on level and gets hard. Expensive stuff but I don't miss oil any more.

[bigbill]

As the engineering manager of a cabinet factory, I'd say get an orbital sander and work those surfaces for Jesus and then light sand between coats. My life revolves around the control of VOC's and the cabinet industry is shifting away from high VOC finishes like vinyl paints and stains because of the environmental concerns and added costs.

Here is the future of cabinet finishing.
https://www.rmwrapsstore.com/blogs/news/wrapping-kitchen-cabinets

[pdmtong]

+1000 Benjamin Moore
The cost of the pain is inconsequential to the time and prep you will invest. Don't skimp on the last most visible step.

Behr? no no no no!

[Seramount]

as a former house-flipper, painting cabinets is a major chore...taking off doors, hardware is the easy part.

removing all the contents, then so many surfaces to clean, prep, and paint, not to mention the restricted access...screw that.

don't care if they're not 'chic,' the 1950s knotty pine cabinets in my house will never see a drop of paint.

[54ny77]

wow, that's very cool!




Here is the future of cabinet finishing.
https://www.rmwrapsstore.com/blogs/news/wrapping-kitchen-cabinets

[Tony]

Well I'm half way into my project and I must say its turning out beautiful!

I TSP the boxes, doors and drawers. I lightly wet sanded with a 220 sand paper.

I did not want the smell of an oil base paint in the home, however I did use an oil based primer on all the doors and drawers, Kilz Complete in a 13 oz spray outside. And used Kilz Adhesion (water based) primer on the boxes inside.

The paint I used is Behr Alkyd Semi Gloss Enamel. I always had good experience with Behr paint and after talking with the rep at Home Depo I thought I would give it a try. Rep said if I didn't like it I could bring it back for a full refund.

I lightly sanded between all coats of paint. The Behr paint designed for Cabinetry flowed nicely, looks like it was sprayed!

So far I'm happy with the way this project is turning out, wife too!

[Hindmost]

I'm glad you're pleased with the project. How are you applying the paint?

[CDM]

Well I'm half way into my project and I must say its turning out beautiful!

I TSP the boxes, doors and drawers. I lightly wet sanded with a 220 sand paper.

I did not want the smell of an oil base paint in the home, however I did use an oil based primer on all the doors and drawers, Kilz Complete in a 13 oz spray outside. And used Kilz Adhesion (water based) primer on the boxes inside.

The paint I used is Behr Alkyd Semi Gloss Enamel. I always had good experience with Behr paint and after talking with the rep at Home Depo I thought I would give it a try. Rep said if I didn't like it I could bring it back for a full refund.

I lightly sanded between all coats of paint. The Behr paint designed for Cabinetry flowed nicely, looks like it was sprayed!


So far I'm happy with the way this project is turning out, wife too!

You mention you dont want the smell of oil in the house but you are using behr alkyd which is oil based.
Glad you are happy with the result!

[blantonator]

Zinsser Bin + Benjamin Moore Advanced. I'd suggest spraying if you can.

[Tony]

I'm glad you're pleased with the project. How are you applying the paint?

I'm using high quality brushes. The key to getting a smooth finish is to apply the paint, brush than leave it alone. Don't keep working that area. After doing several tests I settled on using a small roller to apply than quickly use the brush.

[Tony]

You mention you dont want the smell of oil in the house but you are using behr alkyd which is oil based.
Glad you are happy with the result!

There is a difference in the smell of the oil base spray primer compared to the oil enhanced water base paint, Behr alkyd. After spraying the doors and drawers with the Kilz oil base primer I moved them into our sun room. The smell is very strong. After applying the water base Behr I set the doors and drawers in out dinning room, smell is very tolerable and only lasts for a couple of hours.

[Tony]

Zinsser Bin + Benjamin Moore Advanced. I'd suggest spraying if you can.

I got a small sample of the Benjamin Moore Advanced. It did not flow as nicely as the Behr. I was told by the Benjamin Moore person that its best to use the Advance with a sprayer.

[CDM]

There is a difference in the smell of the oil base spray primer compared to the oil enhanced water base paint, Behr alkyd. After spraying the doors and drawers with the Kilz oil base primer I moved them into our sun room. The smell is very strong. After applying the water base Behr I set the doors and drawers in out dinning room, smell is very tolerable and only lasts for a couple of hours.

So you are using behr WATERBOURN alkyd. I hear good reports on that. In addition to quality brushes be sure to use woven mini rollers. The purple one at Home Depot works nicely. When finished with the roller store it in the paint vs washing it. Keeps it soft.

[OtayBW]

I got a small sample of the Benjamin Moore Advanced. It did not flow as nicely as the Behr. I was told by the Benjamin Moore person that its best to use the Advance with a sprayer.Consumer Reports rated the Behr substantially higher than BM for kitchen paint in Jan 2019. I'm in the middle of futzing with this stuff myself and happened to have some of these reviews, etc.