Retrofitting an Ottrott for Di2 internal

[glepore]

I have a beautiful Ottrott inbound. I have a 9070 di2 setup available. I've used Etap and prefer Di2 fwiw (although both are great, in the grand scheme). I've read this thread https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=125318 wherein it appears that Serotta did drill Ottrotts at the headtube lug (obviously a good place as the ti/tube bond there lends strength). However, drilling ti is a pain, and I've successfully drilled carbon dt's in the past without an issue. So, for the braintrust do I;
a) just drill the carbon or
b) drill the lug-if so, what bit/lube or
c) have my head examined ?

[Jeff N.]

I'd wait until after the New Year...I'd bet a dime Dura Ace will announce a wireless group.

[ergott]

I have a beautiful Ottrott inbound. I have a 9070 di2 setup available. I've used Etap and prefer Di2 fwiw (although both are great, in the grand scheme). I've read this thread https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=125318 wherein it appears that Serotta did drill Ottrotts at the headtube lug (obviously a good place as the ti/tube bond there lends strength). However, drilling ti is a pain, and I've successfully drilled carbon dt's in the past without an issue. So, for the braintrust do I;
a) just drill the carbon or
b) drill the lug-if so, what bit/lube or
c) have my head examined ?

No. 22 did the conversion of my Ottrott to eTap by taking off the bosses. I would reach out to them for advice on the best solution. If you're going Di2, are you also having shifter bosses removed?

https://22bicycles.com/

[glepore]

If you're going Di2, are you also having shifter bosses removed?

https://22bicycles.com/

Not immediately. I noticed that on your build. If I was having the bike refinished, I likely would, but it's not in need of that currently, so I'll hold off for a bit.

[ultraman6970]

Was reading the 22 web page and this came got my eye....

"We focus on handling and responsiveness for each of our designs. We don’t deviate from what we know works best for each design"...

Thats pretty much the motto of my old master builder in my country... u wanted something like 3 meters tall front tube with like 68x71 degrees in size 89... was not going to happen, same concept... he declined a lot of work because was not his thing.

Doubt we will a 22 that doesnt look like a " racing bike."

[PaMtbRider]

I'd wait until after the New Year...I'd bet a dime Dura Ace will announce a wireless group.

I'd take that bet. Wireless from Shimano might be an eventuality, but I don't see it on the near horizon.

[huck*this]

I'd take that bet. Wireless from Shimano might be an eventuality, but I don't see it on the near horizon.

I bet 12 speed before wireless...

[bikinchris]

I'd take that bet. Wireless from Shimano might be an eventuality, but I don't see it on the near horizon.

If Shimano has to pay royalties for producing wireless shifting, you can bet big money they won't make it. Look at chain snap together links. They made them the minute the patent expired. The only reason they sold STI first was they bought the rights first.

[SoCalSteve]

FYI, from personal and painful experience. Do not drill into the carbon, ever. Either drill into the Ti or go ETap. Seriously, you will thank me later.

Hint: I’ll give you Mike Lopez email as you may need to contact him when you crash it and the carbon breaks in half...both top tube and downtube.

[glepore]

FYI, from personal and painful experience. Do not drill into the carbon, ever. Either drill into the Ti or go ETap. Seriously, you will thank me later.

Hint: I’ll give you Mike Lopez email as you may need to contact him when you crash it and the carbon brakes in half...both top tube and downtube.

Thanks. Always glad to learn from painful experience.

[Dude]

also, depending on where in the HT lug you decide to drill (don't do it in the carbon), you might need to do it in the HT itself. Those carbon tubes are mitered and pushed all the way up to the weld in the lug. Actually, come to think of it, it's probably fine to drill into where the carbon/ti overlaps.

I still don't think you should do this yourself. Removing material is removing material.

[happycampyer]

No. 22 did the conversion of my Ottrott to eTap by taking off the bosses. I would reach out to them for advice on the best solution. If you're going Di2, are you also having shifter bosses removed?

https://22bicycles.com/
I second this recommendation. There are folks at No. 22 who will be familiar with the way that Ottrotts were drilled for Di2, and will be able to advise one way or the other if it is doable (although if it is, whether they will do it is another story).

[oldpotatoe]

I have a beautiful Ottrott inbound. I have a 9070 di2 setup available. I've used Etap and prefer Di2 fwiw (although both are great, in the grand scheme). I've read this thread https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=125318 wherein it appears that Serotta did drill Ottrotts at the headtube lug (obviously a good place as the ti/tube bond there lends strength). However, drilling ti is a pain, and I've successfully drilled carbon dt's in the past without an issue. So, for the braintrust do I;
a) just drill the carbon or
b) drill the lug-if so, what bit/lube or
c) have my head examined ?

Reach out to some builders who build titanium and/or have experience with the ottrott. BUT I'm guessing drilling into the titanium is not an issue..but as has been mentioned, where it's titanium, not where the carbon tube is inserted.

One hole in headtube, one by front der..one out end of RH dropout..I did this to a MXLeader and have been riding it for about 5 years..

[glepore]

I've seen photos of how Ottrotts were done by Serrotta, they were drilled in ht lug - the bonded area there is probably the strongest part of the frame.

[Nooch]

No. 22 did the conversion of my Ottrott to eTap by taking off the bosses. I would reach out to them for advice on the best solution. If you're going Di2, are you also having shifter bosses removed?

https://22bicycles.com/

see, this throws me, because I'd contacted no22 about removing the cable stops on the pronto and perhaps anodizing it and they told me they wouldn't work on anyone's bikes but their own, but YMMV

[ergott]

see, this throws me, because I'd contacted no22 about removing the cable stops on the pronto and perhaps anodizing it and they told me they wouldn't work on anyone's bikes but their own, but YMMV

Perhaps since it was part of a bigger project with the refinish. They work with Velocolour on occasion.

[Mike Lopez]

...This is how it was done at Serotta.

The holes were milled rather than drilled. Not sure how many were actually done but I didn't hear about any problems.

The frame shown in the pic was subjected to the push/pull and pedaling forces fatigue tests and had no issues.

Not sure I'd recommend trying to do it yourself unless you're properly equipped and experienced for the task.

[glepore]

Thanks Mike. I picked up a SR mechanical shift group (yes, THAT one :eek:) and am shelving the idea for the moment. I'm not afraid to do it, but lack a stable frame fixture or a way to secure a complete frame in a drill press, so I'll delay this until I make the acquaintance of a local machinist or framebuilder.

[Highpowernut]

see, this throws me, because I'd contacted no22 about removing the cable stops on the pronto and perhaps anodizing it and they told me they wouldn't work on anyone's bikes but their own, but YMMV



Say it ain’t so , not the pronto.

I’ve been contemplating removing them on my legend and don’t have the stones to go through with it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[54ny77]

Search the forum for happycampyer's absolutely stunning Legend re-do, complete with couplers and Sram etap. It's a work of art. The head tube got a haircut, some do-dad's got shaved.

Say it ain’t so , not the pronto.

I’ve been contemplating removing them on my legend and don’t have the stones to go through with it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oldpotatoe]

...This is how it was done at Serotta.

The holes were milled rather than drilled. Not sure how many were actually done but I didn't hear about any problems.

The frame shown in the pic was subjected to the push/pull and pedaling forces fatigue tests and had no issues.

Not sure I'd recommend trying to do it yourself unless you're properly equipped and experienced for the task.

Give this layman an idea of the difference please..'milling vs drilling?

TIA

[mcteague]

Give this layman and idea of the difference please..'milling vs drilling?

TIA

I had to look it up as well. I sort of figured it out but wanted to be sure.

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-a-milling-machine-and-a-drilling-machine

https://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/articles/take-the-plunge-drill-vs-mill

Tim

[unterhausen]

with drilling, you can only go straight through the material. With milling, you take layers off. A milling cutter used for this application would have a flat bottom. Note that the picture Mike posted shows a slot. Can't make a nice slot like that with a drill.

[oldpotatoe]

with drilling, you can only go straight through the material. With milling, you take layers off. A milling cutter used for this application would have a flat bottom. Note that the picture Mike posted shows a slot. Can't make a nice slot like that with a drill.

10-4 but in a titanium tube, why is milling preferred? Sorry for the ignorance..is it because they wanted the hole to be oval? Interesting since the wee grommet is round(6mm, size of connector..Campag is 7mm)..I just used a 5/16 drill for my EPS install..on MXLeader.

[happycampyer]

10-4 but in a titanium tube, why is milling preferred? Sorry for the ignorance..is it because they wanted the hole to be oval? Interesting since the wee grommet is round(6mm, size of connector..Campag is 7mm)..I just used a 5/16 drill for my EPS install..on MXLeader.

^ Maybe because that area is where the titanium and carbon tubes are bonded (so the interior of that tube is carbon)?

[Mike Lopez]

10-4 but in a titanium tube, why is milling preferred? Sorry for the ignorance..is it because they wanted the hole to be oval? Interesting since the wee grommet is round(6mm, size of connector..Campag is 7mm)..I just used a 5/16 drill for my EPS install..on MXLeader.

Keep in mind that Serotta tanked years ago and that photo was taken in the early daze of DI2. At that time the holes were oval. I remember needing to mill oval holes into the carbon tubes of the Meivici & Meivici AE as well.

As such. Milling was required to make the properly dimensioned oval hole/slot.

Milling also allows for better control and lower cutting forces because we could ramp rather than simply plunge through. This is easier on the laminate and reduces fiber blow out. The interior edges are clean rather than splintered so there is less chance of crack propagation.

I have no doubt that since the time that photo was taken that the grommets have changed size & shape. Probably more than once.

[oldpotatoe]

Keep in mind that Serotta tanked years ago and that photo was taken in the early daze of DI2. At that time the holes were oval. I remember needing to mill oval holes into the carbon tubes of the Meivici & Meivici AE as well.

As such. Milling was required to make the properly dimensioned oval hole/slot.

Milling also allows for better control and lower cutting forces because we could ramp rather than simply plunge through. This is easier on the laminate and reduces fiber blow out. The interior edges are clean rather than splintered so there is less chance of crack propagation.

I have no doubt that since the time that photo was taken that the grommets have changed size & shape. Probably more than once.

Thanks sir!