Outing a seller?

[Tony]

A seller here has sold a damaged frame than blamed the buyer (I'm not the buyer) for the damage. The buyer opened up a dispute with paypal and sends the frame back. Seller than posted the frame on his local craigslist, no mention of the damage. Buyer responses to craigslist ad by using a different e-mail address and asks if the frame is still available and if there is any damage, seller says "Nope, no damage, great frame ready to ride!"
The seller never responded to this when he was outed here and continues to sell on this forum.

My question, do you out the buyer and hope someone else does the same for you? Or, say nothing when you see seller here selling, none of my business?

[pdmtong]

the definition of damaged frame is not universally shared amongst buyers.

if you share the details on what constitutes "damaged" that would be pertinent

[duff_duffy]

Can you define the damage first?

[Tony]

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697907286&stc=1&d=1442749825the definition of damaged frame is not universally shared amongst buyers.

if you share the details on what constitutes "damaged" that would be pertinent

[AngryScientist]

I recommend a post in the feedback thread with any facts you have. This is not eBay or craigslist. We look out for each other here and facts speak for themselves.

[cribbit]

foto

Maybe I'm dumb but what part is that?

[jtbadge]

Maybe I'm dumb but what part is that?

Looks like a bottle cage bolt?

[Clean39T]

Looks like a bottle cage bolt?

And looks like a Time frame, maybe Cyfac.

[Tony]

Maybe I'm dumb but what part is that?

The bottle boss.

[onekgguy]

It looks clearly damaged to me, and damage such as that is only going to get worse with each reach for your bottle. I don't use the classified section of the forum but if I did I'd want to know about this guy's shadiness.

Kevin g

[duff_duffy]

Oh yea, that’s damaged in my book. I’d out, that’s an area that a prospective buyer may not catch either if covered by cage. I once drove 8+ hours for a bike that turned out to be damaged and am still mad about it years later.

[Climb01742]

Not specific to the instance, but more broadly, my two cents is...

We’re a community that, at our best, shares things and tries to help each other and look out for each other. Selling stuff isn’t why this place thrives. Trust is, and looking out for each other is.

Sharing info about questionable sales integrity feels in keeping with our community. Lots of places are the Wild West for selling stuff. I’d rather we didn’t go that way.

[wc1934]

A seller here has sold a damaged frame than blamed the buyer (I'm not the buyer) for the damage. The buyer opened up a dispute with paypal and sends the frame back. Seller than posted the frame on his local craigslist, no mention of the damage. Buyer responses to craigslist ad by using a different e-mail address and asks if the frame is still available and if there is any damage, seller says "Nope, no damage, great frame ready to ride!"
The seller never responded to this when he was outed here and continues to sell on this forum.

My question, do you out the buyer and hope someone else does the same for you? Or, say nothing when you see seller here selling, none of my business?

yes - then we can see what the seller has to say, but if I were he/she I would just slink away.

[frankjconway]

Agreed that it is damaged and should be disclosed to a potential buyer.


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[Spaghetti Legs]

I think I would PM, email seller with your concern and PM a moderator. Seems like a civil way to go about it and allow the seller to, as said earlier, slink away.

[ultraman6970]

That in the picture is what I would call "DAMAGE" or "DAMAGED FRAME".

[charliedid]

Devil's Advocate

Possible the seller had no idea about this? It's not like the toptube had a crack in it.

[cribbit]

Devil's Advocate

Possible the seller had no idea about this? It's not like the toptube had a crack in it.

That excuse can work for the first try. When he puts it up on CL later and claims no damage, even after directly being asked, it's shady.

[Louis]

Devil's Advocate

Possible the seller had no idea about this? It's not like the toptube had a crack in it.

Perhaps for the first sale, but surely not for the CL inquiry.

[charliedid]

That excuse can work for the first try. When he puts it up on CL later and claims no damage, even after directly being asked, it's shady.

Yeah good point.

LAME

[hairylegs]

Out the seller!

[Matthew]

Yeah this is BS for sure. Absolutely damaged. And their response to the Craigslist inquiry makes it even worse.

[Pegoready]

That was me, what a blast from the past! I bought a Time. The seller said it had a crossthreaded bottle bolt. No big deal. When I received the frame, the bolt wasn't crossthreaded; it was spinning around a gaping carbon splintered hole!

The seller was guylimey.

At the time it was incredibly frustrating and made me feel like I was crazy. He even withheld like $30 from my refund for supposedly not returning the BB cable guide, which if you know me and how I take care of my stuff, is totally unlikely.

When I saw it reposted on his local CL, and I emailed from a different email address to ask if there was any issues or damage, and he said there was no damage and ready to ride. So, even if I damaged the frame like he said, he was lying. I felt like I wasn't the unreasonable one at this point.

He seems like an OK guy and sells a lot here to this day with no issues that I know of. I think it was an isolated incident where he got caught without the ability to save face so he just blamed me and lied. I would not buy or sell from him again, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't.

[Llewellyn]

That was me, what a blast from the past! I bought a Time. The seller said it had a crossthreaded bottle bolt. No big deal. When I received the frame, the bolt wasn't crossthreaded; it was spinning around a gaping carbon splintered hole!

The seller was guylimey.

At the time it was incredibly frustrating and made me feel like I was crazy. He even withheld like $30 from my refund for supposedly not returning the BB cable guide, which if you know me and how I take care of my stuff, is totally unlikely.

When I saw it reposted on his local CL, and I emailed from to ask if there was damage, he said there was no damage and ready to ride. So, even if I damaged the frame like he said, he was lying. I felt like I wasn't the unreasonable one at this point.

He seems like an OK guy and sells a lot here to this day with no issues that I know of. I think it was an isolated incident where he got caught without the ability to save face so he just blamed me and lied. I would not buy or sell from him again, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't.


IIRC he's got form. I'm sure there was a thread from a disgruntled buyer about a problem with this bloke to do with a battery for an EPS or something. But that was a couple of years ago. While I might be hazy on the details I know for sure that the seller involved was guylimey

[OtayBW]

I recall seeing that pic here on the Forum quite some time ago, and I also remember someone outing the seller (by name) as well....

[R3awak3n]

so wait, how long was this? and why is it only being brought up now?

[kramnnim]

Did the OP of this thread just read an old post about guylimey? Or is this just a really similar story...:confused:

[pdmtong]

When I read about a badly behaving seller I put that person on my ignore list. That way when they post something FS in the classifieds I can ignore it.

I don't care if they say they are the original owner selling a set of lightweights for $1200...pass. I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with anyone who isn't straight among our membership...and that means new members, members with 31 posts, or members with 5,000+ posts. eff up once, pay for life.

of the few things in life that define us, integrity is paramount.

FWIW...that seller has been on my ignore for a long time.

[Clean39T]

eff up once, pay for life.


We all make mistakes. Integrity is fessing up when you've effed up and making it right.

But I get where you're coming from - I have no time for folks who don't respect the golden rule...

[sandyrs]

I think I would PM, email seller with your concern and PM a moderator. Seems like a civil way to go about it and allow the seller to, as said earlier, slink away.

No way. The classifieds here have a feedback section for a reason.

[Tony]

Did the OP of this thread just read an old post about guylimey? Or is this just a really similar story...:confused:


No, I didn't just read this tread posted by Gothard couple years ago Need opinion, classifieds issue.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=174649&highlight=guylimey

The tread, the transaction/comments shared by Pegoready regarding the deceitful behavior by this seller, no response from him regarding the Time frame has me concerned for other buyers here on this forum when I see a item up for sell by this seller. This is why I posted.

[ultraman6970]

THis was back like 3 years ago....

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1827520&postcount=32

[pdmtong]

We all make mistakes. Integrity is fessing up when you've effed up and making it right.



But I get where you're coming from - I have no time for folks who don't respect the golden rule...


Yup - Golden rule exactly. Imho Integrity includes not putting oneself in a situation to have to make some lame a $$ excuse after the fact once caught

Does a person/forum/community need to get burned scammed ripped off twice to Learn their lesson?

A seller gets caught apologizes then does it again?

Saying that a ripped out cage bolt in a carbon frame isn't damaged isn't a mistake.

Frankly that's unbelievable gall

I'll keep my money in my pocket thank you. We all have enough BS to deal with in life and don't need to here

Actually of all people recently Dan would know who's been naughty and who's been nice. Most active buyer seller of 2017-18 for sure

[Clean39T]

Yup - Golden rule exactly. Imho Integrity includes not putting oneself in a situation to have to make some lame a $$ excuse after the fact once caught

Does a person/forum/community need to get burned scammed ripped off twice to Learn their lesson?

A seller gets caught apologizes then does it again?

Saying that a ripped out cage bolt in a carbon frame isn't damaged isn't a mistake.

Frankly that's unbelievable gall

I'll keep my money in my pocket thank you. We all have enough BS to deal with in life and don't need to here

Actually of all people recently Dan would know who's been naughty and who's been nice. Most active buyer seller of 2017-18 for sure

Gulp. Maybe. Hilltopper might have me beat.

I was just saying what I said because I've screwed up before - never knowingly, just happens once in a blue moon - and I appreciate that folks have always let me make it right..

This is obviously not that.

I should also add that 99% of my experiences here buying AND selling have been 100% positive.

[weisan]

Yes, unequivocally - out the seller in this case.

And then...stop right there.

Don't criminalize or demonize. Like Dan said, we all make mistakes. Sometimes, it takes more than twice to learn the lesson, don't you?

Save your pent up anger, frustrations and destructive energy on the real criminals and demons. They are many out there that need our immediate attention and action. I can help you identify them if you can't see with your own eyes.

[Bruce K]

I thought Bk the day ngormation is now out

People can draw their own conclusions and make their own choices.

Pretty sure nothing good will come from further discussion.

BK