New wheels, wow! Now a ?

[73Bronco]

I recently picked up some ENVE 7.8 from a buddy and all I can say is WOW!

Now it's got me wondering though, what is it about the wheels that makes them feel so great? For reference, I was on some older (2015) Reynolds attack (48mm?) with PowerTap hubs from Performance Bike (likely cheap spokes). The Enve's feel so much better as soon as I hop on the bike, i.e. not only at speed.

So what is it about the new wheels that make them feel so much better. Is it the rim construction (material, dimensions), better hubs (DT Swiss), better spokes, or the combination of all three? Also for reference, same tires Conti GP4k 25mm on both. Of course the tires fit much better on the wider ENVEs.

The only thing I can compare the feeling to is like a new pair of shoes that fit really great. They feel great all the time (slow, fast, cornering, etc).

I can't afford more ENVEs for my other bikes, so I'm wondering what the secret sauce is. If I look into another set of cheaper wheels, do I focus on the rim, hub, spokes, or does it take a 3 to make a good wheelset?

Thanks.

[oldpotatoe]

I recently picked up some ENVE 7.8 from a buddy and all I can say is WOW!

Now it's got me wondering though, what is it about the wheels that makes them feel so great? For reference, I was on some older (2015) Reynolds attack (48mm?) with PowerTap hubs from Performance Bike (likely cheap spokes). The Enve's feel so much better as soon as I hop on the bike, i.e. not only at speed.

So what is it about the new wheels that make them feel so much better. Is it the rim construction (material, dimensions), better hubs (DT Swiss), better spokes, or the combination of all three? Also for reference, same tires Conti GP4k 25mm on both. Of course the tires fit much better on the wider ENVEs.

The only thing I can compare the feeling to is like a new pair of shoes that fit really great. They feel great all the time (slow, fast, cornering, etc).

I can't afford more ENVEs for my other bikes, so I'm wondering what the secret sauce is. If I look into another set of cheaper wheels, do I focus on the rim, hub, spokes, or does it take a 3 to make a good wheelset?

Thanks.

Carbon rims make for a very light and crisp 'feel'. Not because they are light, but because they are 'stiff'. Those are good hubs, good rims, suffient spokes and built well=good wheelset

[fa63]

...does it take a 3 to make a good wheelset?


Absolutely; the wheel is truly the sum of its parts.

Since you were using the same tires, you are probably feeling the effects of wider rim (and how it impacts tire shape as you noted), slight aerodynamic advantage due to greater rim depth and more modern rim profile, and difference in how these wheels transmit road imperfections compared to your previous ones. And placebo effect of course :) That said, give these some time for the placebo effect to wear off and reassess. I am sure they are great wheels, but feel doesn't always translate into quantifiable long-term performance gains.

[AngryScientist]

, do I focus on the rim, hub, spokes, or does it take a 3 to make a good wheelset?



takes all three, but i would say that the 4th is a solid build. a wheel with good, even spoke tension that is dead true and round will definitely "feel" better than one that is sloppily built, even with the same hardware.

[Tickdoc]

great wheels...My eve 3.4s are the fastest I own.....but don't discount new tires as part of the equation of what you are "feeling"

Enjoy the ride:banana:

[redir]

I've never really gotten that 'feeling' before when buying nice new carbon wheels... Oh well for me... I still like them tho!

The one thing I most certainly notice is the stiffness. And that was one of the reasons, of many, I go with tubular on deep carbon wheels. They are VERY stiff and tubulars help soften the blow.

I think a lot of the changes we feel are in out heads and maybe some of it has to do with other factors. They are incredibly light too so I'm sure that factors in. I think I notice the lightness particularly when out of the saddle and throwing the bike around.

[Mikej]

It’s a placebo, remember how fast you could run when you got new sneakers in 4th grade?

[73Bronco]

Thanks for replies so far. I think I've got about 5 rides on them so far so I'm sure I still have some of the "new wheel" placebo going on. When I went from the stock wheels that came on the bike (2017 Allez Sprint) to the Reynolds I definitely felt an improvement. The feel when going from the Reynolds to the ENVEs completely transforms the bike.

I don't think comparing the ENVEs to the Reynolds is a fair comparison and that's not what I'm trying to do. If I knew how good these wheels would feel, I would have upgraded a long time ago. My main problem now is I want the same feeling on all my other bikes!! :banana:

[Ken Robb]

Please define "better" because your "better" might be someone else's "worse". What difference do you feel between your new and old wheels?

Think of my experience with aero wheels vs 32 hole Open Pros on Ultegra Hubs: they were a bit faster downhill in the 35-42 mph range so that was "better" but they were too sensitive to sidewinds when I rode along the coast so that was "worse". Overall I decided giving up a couple of MPH at speeds I rarely achieved anyway was better than frequently fighting crosswinds on many rides.

[HTupolev]

what is it about the wheels that makes them feel so great?
How do you like the sounds of the ENVEs versus the Reynolds?

[73Bronco]

Please define "better" because your "better" might be someone else's "worse". What difference do you feel between your new and old wheels?

Fair question Ken and I wish I could explain it better. I assume a lot of it may have to do with the rim/tire interface and/or fit. Regardless of speed, it feels so much more planted to the road. Both from a stability and grip standpoint. Maybe that's due to the wide profile and stiffness of the rims, I don't know. They are 70mm and 80mm so I'm not trying to say I don't feel the crosswinds.

From a speed perspective, they definitely feel faster. I think the rim profile, bladed spokes, better hubs, and better build compared to my old wheelset all contribute to this.

I most definitely like that they feel faster, but it's the overall feeling of being connected to the road, and the confidence that inspires I'm most impressed with.

[73Bronco]

How do you like the sounds of the ENVEs versus the Reynolds?

It's almost funny that you ask that. I've heard some wheels that make a whooshing sound when you're pushing it. If my 7.8 do that, I'm breathing to hard to notice :)

As far as the braking, the textured brake track makes a sound (low volume) that sounds like a jet engine running up (the tone/pitch, not volume). I actually love the sound. Time will tell if I tire of the sound. It's near perfectly flat here though, so not much braking.

[godfrey1112000]

Many articles on best value and performance upgrade always seems to start with wheels,

have fun, the only other upgrade that is cheaper to improve performance and speed is to lose 10 pounds,
:eek:

[zap]

It’s a placebo, remember how fast you could run when you got new sneakers in 4th grade?

No, can't remember.

[weisan]

cheaper to improve performance and speed is to lose 10 pounds,
:eek:

cheaper yes, easier no. :p

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=211467

[vqdriver]

i had the same reaction going from ksyriums to eurus. then again from handbuilts to enves. i, for one, couldn't get used to the sound so they're gone now. i went to zipp 303 and have the whooshing sound on hard efforts without the brake noise. fwiw, the 3.4s felt better, especially going uphill, but that noise coming down tho....

[GParkes]

OK, here's my take. Three years ago I thought I'd try a set of generic carbon wheels for ti's and TT's. I didn't want to spend a fortune off the rip. The wheels were 60 MM depth clinchers and soooooo much faster than the alloys I had before and felt great on my road bike. Then at the beginning of 2017 I scored a set of immaculate Zipp 404 tubulars - WOW. And now the 60's seem OK. Summation - the Zipp's are just better wheels all the way around compared to the other two. I think your experience with the Enve's will be similar to mine. You simply have better wheels ans tires than before.

[gasman]

It’s a placebo, remember how fast you could run when you got new sneakers in 4th grade?

Yes, PF Flyers :banana:

I was still slow but it was fun and that's what counts !

[Ken Robb]

Yes, PF Flyers :banana:

I was still slow but it was fun and that's what counts !

With the little suction cups molded into the soles. WHOP, WHOP, WHOP when we ran on smooth pavement.

[gasman]

With the little suction cups molded into the soles. WHOP, WHOP, WHOP when we ran on smooth pavement.


I couldn't run that fast:eek:

[Ken Robb]

i couldn't run that fast:eek:
ok, whop whop whop:)