OT - thinking about a new vehicle - suggestions/opinions?

[jbreebs]

I'm starting to think about getting a new vehicle - currently I drive a 1997 Toyota camry with 245k miles on it. It's been a great car, and I have no complaints about it; it has treated me very well over the years. But, it's starting to accumulate some minor issues that will cost cumulatively more than the car is worth to get fixed up. Therefore, I think it's time to start looking for something new(er).

I've got a few approximate criteria I'd like to meet - newer than 2005, less than 175k miles, and less than $5000. I'm planning to pay cash and not add yet another payment to my life. Since the camry is still running, I'm not desperate and these seem like attainable criteria to me. I'm a younger guy looking for a quality affordable car that will last 5-10 years hopefully without any major issues.

Things to know - a good chunk of my driving is short trips (to work and back, around town for groceries etc). That said, I do a fair amount of longer trips - home to MN, camping/ski/road trips out west, etc. I do a fair amount of camping would like to have a bit more room for gear. Things I really value in a car are: fuel economy, reliability, ease of maintenance, and room for gear/extra people. I'd like to add a hitch for a tray-style bike rack, so ideally the new car should be able to take one of those easily. I also am unsure if AWD is worth it - it significantly decreases fuel economy, and I don't need it 90% of the time. That said, that other 10% of the time it would be really really nice to have. Opinions?

Existing pros/cons for vehicles I'm currently considering:

VW TDI wagon (passat/jetta) - great fuel mileage, room for all the stuff, diesel engine should last a long time. BUT I'm less familiar with diesel engines/turbos, repairs are more expensive, and I have concerns about short trip driving and cold weather. Also unsure if I need to do anything in relation to the emissions scandal era vehicles (2009-2013?)

Subaru Outback - AWD, room for all the stuff, easy to work on. But, poor mileage (due to AWD), and relatively more expensive up front than some others I'm considering

Volvo XC70 - AWD, room for all the stuff, nice interior. But, poor mileage (due to AWD), and more expensive repairs/parts

Toyota Prius - excellent fuel economy, quiet, relatively spacious. BUT, concerns about remaining battery life in vehicles that fit above criteria, as the batteries alone go for 3k plus, and less room for gear. Also lower ground clearance and likely worse performance on questionable roads

Toyota Camry/Honda Accord - similar to what I currently have, but newer/less miles. Good gas mileage, easy to work on, BUT holds less stuff and isn't particularly exciting (not that I necessarily need exciting)


Based on that info, are there vehicles I should consider that I'm not, or ones that I am considering that I shouldn't? If you were in my situation, what would you purchase?

[likebikes]

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=200638

honda fit.

[jtbadge]

I like my VW ('12 GTI) - tons of space, super fun to drive, etc., but maintenance is expensive, so someone coming from a Camry is in for a shock on that front.

FWIW, old Subarus got terrible mileage because their transmissions were terrible, not because of AWD. Current (CVT, newer than '09, I think) Subarus, even the big Forester and Outback, get over 30 highway. The current Outback is great.

All said, though - I agree with the Honda Fit recommendation, or a Mazda 3 hatch.

[hokoman]

my coworker has a honda element, it has over 300k miles, and he said the thing will not die. I started looking at them because I wanted a cheap car that will get beat up in NY. I need a fifth seat though. Ultimately decided to ship one of my cars from CA out since it sits idle there - 2012 Honda FIT with 18k miles. I looked to see what I could sell it for, and just decided it would be cheaper and easier for me to ship that car than buying a used car in NY. I will say, the drive sucks for long trips on the freeway in my opinion.

Sometimes it's not about spending more than a current car is worth, but how it will perform for you after you get the repairs done.

[NHAero]

I have a 2008 Fit which I've had for almost 9 years, bought with 35,000 miles on it in 2010. It's been a great car and when I moved to MV I put 4 bikes in it.

The one caution compared to the Camry is that it's not nearly as comfortable highway car.


https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=200638

honda fit.

[gomango]

Another satisfied Fit owner.

A 2007.

Great city car. Easy to park, decent with gas and totally reliable.

Low maintenance costs as well.

[joosttx]

Check a Honda Crosstour too. I had one and it was a very nice car.

[zennmotion]

Another +1 for the Honda Fit. However, as one who used to live in snow country, light cars with small diameter wheels are sub-optimal in gnarly conditions when snow is piling up such as rural roads. I miss my '94 Camry, that thing wouldn't die until the upstate NY salted roads finally rusted out pretty much everything under the floorboards. Cargill salt is a big contributor to NYS legislators on both sides, which is why the road salt is so much worse than next door in New England or PA. effers...

[jbreebs]

looks like I should also be considering the Honda Fit. Those of you that have them - how do you like the interiors? is the hatchback/trunk portion reasonably sizeable with the back seats up? what sort of real world MPG do you get?

[biker72]

My daughter now has my 2013 Honda Fit but this is a solid reliable vehicle. ONLY downside is no all wheel drive. You can load a lot of everything in this Honda.
My daughter is getting better gas mileage than me but I got around 33 mpg overall. Made one long trip and averaged 35 mpg.

[scoobydrew]

I agree with Honda Fit as well. Will last you forever, holds a TON of stuff. Get a cheap set of snow tires/wheels for the wintery months.

[Hawker]

I'm a drummer so I've had lots of wagons and hatchbacks. All Asian of one type of another. All my Hondas and Toyotas have been bulletproof, Accords and Camrys. Both in wagons (when they made them) and standard four doors.

However, the car that has been wonderful to me for the last ten years has been a '08 Mazda 3 hatch. Fit's my drums easily or two bikes (carefully) and handles a notch above the Honda or the Toyota. I tried a Honda Fit but to me it felt a bit small, loud and didn't have much power when it came to any driving on Interstates. Even getting onto the Interstate seemed to be an effort. My .02.

Just keep changing the oil and it seems that almost anything Asian goes 200K+ these days.

[zennmotion]

looks like I should also be considering the Honda Fit. Those of you that have them - how do you like the interiors? is the hatchback/trunk portion reasonably sizeable with the back seats up? what sort of real world MPG do you get?

The rear seats have good comfortable legroom for being a compact car. With the seats down, there's enough headroom to carry a bike or three turned upside down with both wheels removed (close, depending on your saddle height, I'm 5'10" YMMV). I've carried 8' planks from Home Depot (resting on the dashboard :eek:) with the hatch closed. I've even carried our tandem inside the car, both wheels removed, front passenger seat fully reclined with my stoker seated in the back seat behind the driver. It's well designed for cargo, given that it's a basic compact car. Our actual mileage is around 33mpg hwy using the "eco" drive function that somewhat limits power for highway on-ramp accelerations and the like. Surprisingly, the city mileage seems very close, but hard to know since we live in the burbs, so very few trips are pure city driving. It will carry more than your Camry for sure. Although back in my starving grad student days, I bought a "small" iron woodstove at a barn sale, managed (with 2 guys helping) to load it into the back seat of my old Camry, fit fine until I got it home and it had shifted on the seat and I couldn't get it out. Drove around for a week with the damn thing in the back until I finally took it to a garage and had a back door removed to pry it out. Fun times...

[AngryScientist]

you probably know this already, but when you're in the market for a <$5k car, with a pile of miles on it already, you really have to buy the individual car, not focus only on a particular model. there is going to be a whole lot of junk out there in that price range that will be at the end of life and highly unlikely to go another 5 years before it's dead.

you really need to be relentless about checking for rust/rot and other telltale signs of a car that doesnt have much life left in it. understanding how the previous owner(s) took care of the car will be important. at 175k miles or so, most hondas are going to be deep into their second timing belt and ready for a new one, which is not a cheap job or a particularly easy DIY project.

i wouldnt touch any german car in that price range with that many miles without having a VERY good idea about the maintenance history. bear in mind TDIs are pretty sensitive to what motor oil they need, and it's expensive. using the wrong oil for 50k miles is going to result in sludge and varnish issues which will cost you eventually.

there is certainly a lot of love for them, and it's highly subjective, but i test drove a FIT a long time ago, a brand new one and absolutely hated it. loud, very cheap feeling interior and severely underpowered. i'd hate to drive it anywhere that has hills or passes to contend with.


SUVs are wildly popular right now, so that is propping their used prices up. for the money you are looking to spend, you will get a lot more car if you stick with a sedan, if i were in your shoes and the camry has worked well for you, i'd be looking for another one of them or an accord.

[loxx0050]

The age and price range cars you are shopping for stay away from naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engine Subaru vehicles. Outback, Forrester, Impreza and Legacy. From I think it was 2005ish era and onto probably 2015 or even 2016 era models have oil consumption issues where the head gaskets tend to leak....all of them eventually and not even a matter of if it is when. Lots of complaints on that front and even cases of denied warranty for some owners. Despite Subaru eventually admitting design flaw issues.

The turbo 4 cylinder offerings weren't subject to this issue with more robust design (aka WRX, Forrester XT, Legacy XT and STi models. The 6 Cylinder engines are built like tanks and seem to last forever though with proper maintenance.

With your budget I'd stay away from Subaru 4 cylinder versions unless they already had the leaks repaaire. But be warned you'd probably have to do the same fix again in 5-7 years again or so from when it was fixed.


Just a PSA. My dad's 2007 Forrester experienced these oil leaks and I've seen 2015 Outbacks with the same issues not even beyond 15k miles on them. I've got a 6 Cylinder Subaru Outback and it's been rock solid. 5 years of ownership and 55k miles and only had to do general maintenance. Oil changes, tranny and diff fluid drain/fill, brake flush and filter changes. Only what your supposed to do with any vehicle.

[Clean39T]

Just a caution on ground clearance for the Fit - we had an '08 in Boulder and it was fine in the snow until you had to get from plowed street into a driveway or side-street, scraped the bottom a lot...sometimes same thing even going into a left turn lane, iirc. Loved the car the rest of the year though. Drove it to the PNW and back twice, slept in the back at rest-stops. Oh to be young again.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[HenryA]

Two unexciting answers:

1. Keep the Toyota and fix as needed. Probably cheapest solutuion.

2. Buy a newer Camry or Accord to the extent you can afford it.

For sure stay away from the German cars. I am not so sure on the Outbacks as my wife is on her third one and the first one went about 250,000 before it died. The second got totalled at 110,000 but still no hint of trouble. What is good gas mileage? We think the Outback is pretty good.

Do the math on what your current car is worth. It might be good to get while the gettin’ is good. Cars like that might bring a premium if clean and nice. Imagine you had a crappy or dead car and could buy your current one to replace the dead one. Probably a great value for someone in that situation. And it probably is for you too.

But we’ve not heard what you think might be wrong with it. If its just minor things that will not cause the car to strand you I bet you have another 100,000 miles of life in it. If its not life threatening to the car just fix as needed and save your money for the inevitable final demise of your Camry.

I have a history of driving all the good out of my vehicles and you might be there or not. If you drive 20,000 a year you could get 4-5 more years of cheap driving from what you have now.

[Ralph]

I have a little different view about used cars. (I hang around an independent garage a lot) I think the price differential between the vehicles most seem to think are the best VS those most seem to think are junk.....is greater than the cost to fix and maintain the less popular ones.

And sure....I bought all my kids new Honda's when they were 16....they lasted forever with little repairs...so I agree that simple Japanese cars (like they used to be made....not necessarily how they are made today) have a much better reliability record than most others.

And they are priced for that.

My dad always told me if buying a new car, buy ones with least depreciation rates. And if buying used.....look for those that have depreciated the most, and can be bought the cheapest.

There are lots of older cars with about 100,000 mile on them that can be bought for about nothing....and can be fixed up cheap....if you have the cash. And they will then run on about as long as anything else.

All car makes have about the same engine technology. No one knows anything about making them last the others don't know. There are only a few companies that make all the transmissions. Just a few companies that make all the engine electronics. Just a couple companies that make most of the suspension parts. Yet.....a Honda or Toyota used with hi mileage might be $6000-8000, and another make not so popular might be $1500. You can do a lot of fixing for the difference. I see plenty of old Fords and Dodge's with 200,000-300,000 miles on them (or more sometimes)....just like the Honda's and Toyota's. And guess whose parts are the cheapest.

EDIT addition....Got a buddy who buys old Ford Crown Vic Police cars for under $500. He looks for some not totally ragged out. Then puts another 100,000 on them with few repairs. Those things run forever. And there is not much about them different than what old men bought. (huge 20 Cu Ft trunk....huge back seat area...hauling stuff....25 MPH highway)

[Ralph]

And another thing about buying older used cars. Relatively speaking.....fixing mechanical things is cheap compared to fixing body work....rust, etc.

There is not much mechanical on a car you can't repair for less than the sales tax cost of a new vehicle (which is one reason I say a car value has nothing to do with whether or not it's "worth it' to fix it up"). Engines and transmissions are RELATIVELY cheap to fix. But body work is another matter. Body work, repairing rust, is many times more expensive than fixing mechanical issues. So anything you buy....put it on a lift and look it over very carefully. Run away from rust damage. It's cancer eating from inside.

I once bought a very hi mileage Honda CRX cheap....with a perfect body and interior.....spent about $5000 on it going over everything.....made it like new again. Gave it to a son who had just wrecked his. The guy I bought it from (cheap) thought it was too old and had too many miles to fix up.

[gomango]

Just a caution on ground clearance for the Fit - we had an '08 in Boulder and it was fine in the snow until you had to get from plowed street into a driveway or side-street, scraped the bottom a lot...sometimes same thing even going into a left turn lane, iirc. Loved the car the rest of the year though. Drove it to the PNW and back twice, slept in the back at rest-stops. Oh to be young again.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Hah, we have the Minnesota ruts to deal with for months on end. Our streets in St. Paul get absurd by January, as we don't seem to be totally convinced that plowing is a good idea. :)

I sometimes feel that the bottom of the Fit could use skid plates.....

However, our Fit is a happy little camper with its Nokians. FWIW, we put Nokians on all of our cars ahead of Minnesota winters.

Except for the studded snows on our F150 up at the cabin. We just leave those on year round.

[Ken Robb]

EDIT addition....Got a buddy who buys old Ford Crown Vic Police cars for under $500. He looks for some not totally ragged out. Then puts another 100,000 on them with few repairs. Those things run forever. And there is not much about them different than what old men bought. (huge 20 Cu Ft trunk....huge back seat area...hauling stuff....25 MPH highway)

Ooh Ralph! It must be amazing to see a car that can do 25 miles per hour on the highway. :p:banana: Sorry, if we can't tease our OLD pals who can we tease?

[cnighbor1]

VW Jetta TDI VW is slowly releasing fixed TSI's into market place We got 20k SW 2015 $15,000 sun rook AT

[93KgBike]

You don't need all-wheel-drive, really. Get front wheel drive. And get one from a non-snow state (carmax or eBay or whatevs). GL

[Ralph]

Ooh Ralph! It must be amazing to see a car that can do 25 miles per hour on the highway. :p:banana: Sorry, if we can't tease our OLD pals who can we tease?

Yeah....You caught that for sure.

We have these discussions about cars on here. But mostly I think folks are just looking for something different to drive. It doesn't necessarily have to make economic sense. Or even be a better car....in some cases.

Have another buddy who was looking for an old pick up to keep at his farm. (in Florida professional folks like to have "farms"....it's a status thing....they don't live on them....just drag a trailer on them, etc).

He finally found a 20 year old Ford F 150 with 190,000 miles on it, that ran good, and body had no rust. Truck was in good condition. Bought it for $1800. Catch....it didn't have AC from factory. Some fool brought a Northern truck down to Florida and traded it in at the Lincoln dealership (he probably got about nothing for it) ....and they couldn't resell it. No AC. You never know what is out there.

[54ny77]

couple years ago while visiting family in central florida the rental car a/c went kaput. the definition of living hell on earth is mid-florida summer in a car with no a/c. :bike:

Yeah....You caught that for sure.

We have these discussions about cars on here. But mostly I think folks are just looking for something different to drive. It doesn't necessarily have to make economic sense. Or even be a better car....in some cases.

Have another buddy who was looking for an old pick up to keep at his farm. (in Florida professional folks like to have "farms"....it's a status thing....they don't live on them....just drag a trailer on them, etc).

He finally found a 20 year old Ford F 150 with 190,000 miles on it, that ran good, and body had no rust. Truck was in good condition. Bought it for $1800. Catch....it didn't have AC from factory. Some fool brought a Northern truck down to Florida and traded it in at the Lincoln dealership (he probably got about nothing for it) ....and they couldn't resell it. No AC. You never know what is out there.

[wc1934]

you probably know this already, but when you're in the market for a <$5k car, with a pile of miles on it already, you really have to buy the individual car, not focus only on a particular model. there is going to be a whole lot of junk out there in that price range that will be at the end of life and highly unlikely to go another 5 years before it's dead.

you really need to be relentless about checking for rust/rot and other telltale signs of a car that doesnt have much life left in it. understanding how the previous owner(s) took care of the car will be important. at 175k miles or so, most hondas are going to be deep into their second timing belt and ready for a new one, which is not a cheap job or a particularly easy DIY project.

i wouldnt touch any german car in that price range with that many miles without having a VERY good idea about the maintenance history. bear in mind TDIs are pretty sensitive to what motor oil they need, and it's expensive. using the wrong oil for 50k miles is going to result in sludge and varnish issues which will cost you eventually.

there is certainly a lot of love for them, and it's highly subjective, but i test drove a FIT a long time ago, a brand new one and absolutely hated it. loud, very cheap feeling interior and severely underpowered. i'd hate to drive it anywhere that has hills or passes to contend with.


SUVs are wildly popular right now, so that is propping their used prices up. for the money you are looking to spend, you will get a lot more car if you stick with a sedan, if i were in your shoes and the camry has worked well for you, i'd be looking for another one of them or an accord.

a little off topic and I maybe be mistaken, but I believe that the newer Hondas (I want to say 2005 or so) dont have timing belts, rather chains -

[BobbyJones]

a little off topic and I maybe be mistaken, but I believe that the newer Hondas (I want to say 2005 or so) dont have timing belts, rather chains -

It's really hit or miss depending on the model / year.

The belt replacement is only an arm and a leg at the dealer vs. a trusted independent.

[Ralph]

My 4 cylinder 2012 CRV has a timing chain. Believe all Honda 4 cylinder's use chains now. Believe V6's still use belts.

[cinema]

The answer, if you don't keep your camry, which you probably should, is a gen 2 toyota prius. New gen 2 hybrid batteries are about $1k online and can be put in in your driveway after watching a youtube video.

my 2007 has 150k on it and the battery works great. it runs like a clock. no issues, and it has a timing chain.

[jbreebs]

These are all great things that I haven't entirely considered all the way through, so thanks for the advice and keep it coming! I'm trying to make the best choice going forward and I value your input!


Two unexciting answers:

1. Keep the Toyota and fix as needed. Probably cheapest solutuion.

2. Buy a newer Camry or Accord to the extent you can afford it.

For sure stay away from the German cars. I am not so sure on the Outbacks as my wife is on her third one and the first one went about 250,000 before it died. The second got totalled at 110,000 but still no hint of trouble. What is good gas mileage? We think the Outback is pretty good.

Do the math on what your current car is worth. It might be good to get while the gettin’ is good. Cars like that might bring a premium if clean and nice. Imagine you had a crappy or dead car and could buy your current one to replace the dead one. Probably a great value for someone in that situation. And it probably is for you too.

But we’ve not heard what you think might be wrong with it. If its just minor things that will not cause the car to strand you I bet you have another 100,000 miles of life in it. If its not life threatening to the car just fix as needed and save your money for the inevitable final demise of your Camry.

I have a history of driving all the good out of my vehicles and you might be there or not. If you drive 20,000 a year you could get 4-5 more years of cheap driving from what you have now.

Currently, I think the car is worth $800-1000. The bumper was hit recently (by the daughter of a guy I was buying bike parts from, lol). So I took a small payment out of that rather than fix it. Other problems: the engine is leaking oil from somewhere, low, and probably hard to get to. Likely one of the 21 year old gaskets is failing, and I'm sure others are heading that direction as well. The left rear control arm bushings are going bad and cause a rattle; while the parts aren't particularly expensive, it requires dropping the gas tank to remove the a 12" long bolt that holds both arms on. Need a new front left wheel bearing, and an alignment after replacment. The tires are getting to the point of needing replacement as well. I have access to a shop with a lift, and I can probably do most of the work myself, but the issue is that once I get these problems fixed, where does it end? It seems likely to me that there will be more minor issues that add up over time. I'm not particularly opposed to doing these fixes but think it might be wise to find something different now, while the car still maintains some of its value.

[cmg]

keep the camry, put $5k worth of repairs, then do it again. keep it 18 years. if you keep buying a new car every 6 years after 18 years you would have spent $100k just to own a car, don't do it. as far as spending more than the car is worth. that's the line the car salesman uses to sell you a new car.

[HenryA]

These are all great things that I haven't entirely considered all the way through, so thanks for the advice and keep it coming! I'm trying to make the best choice going forward and I value your input!




Currently, I think the car is worth $800-1000. The bumper was hit recently (by the daughter of a guy I was buying bike parts from, lol). So I took a small payment out of that rather than fix it. Other problems: the engine is leaking oil from somewhere, low, and probably hard to get to. Likely one of the 21 year old gaskets is failing, and I'm sure others are heading that direction as well. The left rear control arm bushings are going bad and cause a rattle; while the parts aren't particularly expensive, it requires dropping the gas tank to remove the a 12" long bolt that holds both arms on. Need a new front left wheel bearing, and an alignment after replacment. The tires are getting to the point of needing replacement as well. I have access to a shop with a lift, and I can probably do most of the work myself, but the issue is that once I get these problems fixed, where does it end? It seems likely to me that there will be more minor issues that add up over time. I'm not particularly opposed to doing these fixes but think it might be wise to find something different now, while the car still maintains some of its value.


Then you might be down to "can I buy a very much better car for the $XXXX dollars I have to spend. On the other hand if those things were fixed, how much would that cost? The oil leak might be as simple as tightening some bolts. Or not. Find out if possible. Main seal? Oil pan?

The wheel bearing is important, fix it and don't align it. At least it will be safe from that one danger.

The other thing is I bet you can get more than that for it if it drives more or less OK. Especially if you can cure the things you write about. Spend a little more time shopping for what it might bring.

What car(s) have you found for the money you want to spend?

[Louis]

Subaru Outback - AWD, room for all the stuff, easy to work on. But, poor mileage (due to AWD), and relatively more expensive up front than some others I'm considering

I have an Impreza (AWD, of course) and get over 35 mpg per tank (mostly highway).

[pasadena]

Honestly you're right not to dump more money into it.
Your plans for a car require more of the same, as others have said.

Another Camry is solid. They are boring but the most dependable.

For the same money, a newer Corolla. They have gotten very good, a bit bigger and, again, dead reliable.

Honda Fit is good. It's made in Japan and overall a good small car. Not sure how much fun on a long road trip.
You have to do some research on Hondas because some years of Civics and other models have some serious reliability issues.

I would avoid all German cars and especially German, made in Mexico cars and CVT transmissions.
For the long term, nah.

Though they can be reliable, they are more expensive and require more servicing and will never be as reliable as a mainstream Toyota with a good auto trans.

[biker72]

If I lived in snow country I'd look for an older Honda CRV, Toyota RAV-4, or Subaru Outback that all have more road clearance.

[fmradio516]

I was a phone call away from buying a new Subaru Forester until I started looking on the online Subaru boards. Tons of people having issues that you shouldnt be having with cars less than 80k miles. Among these issues was a guy who had to replace 3 out of 4 of the wheel bearings at around 70k.

[cinema]

I think if the body and frame are good i would try replacing those parts.

drive it till empty and drop the gas tank. much easier. while you're in there you can always do the fuel pump too if they place it in the gas tank.

how bad is the leak? i wouldn't worry about a small leak. a drop or two a day is fine. it's not super hard to do an oil pan gasket or valve cover gasket (one of those is messier than the other). Use a pressure washer and elbow grease to scrub the dripping parts off and then watch to see where it's coming from.

wheel bearings aren't always so difficult but i've only done them on solid axle vehicles and gotten to the point where i can do them in 15 min..

However, if your ride is all rusted out and at the mercy of road salt, i would say dump it. the road salt has done things to the 20 yo car that are not easy to spot and can fail instantly. therefore look for a newer, lower mile vehicle. I'm from chicago and if i still lived in the midwest, knowing what i know now, I would only be buying used cars from the desert and taking a weekend out of my life to transport and secure a rust free vehicle. also if you're bored of that car and want better mileage or something more useful for you, like a hatch, i do recommend the prius again.

you CANNOT fix rust. the problems rust causes accelerate with age. imagine a ball joint/control arm/knuckle failing instantly on the freeway. seen it many times in the midwest.

[buddybikes]

We have owned prius's (or similar platform) since 2004 - our 2007 has original battery with no end in site. Think we have had 1 out of normal repair, and 2 extended warrantees went (thankfully) down the drain not being used. I wish they had a wagon or something other than the ugly low powered Prius 5 to handle our kayaks and bikes. My saab is nickel and diming me, my search for holy grail doesn't exist. I don't like the seats in VW.

[cmg]

Sounds like a leaking rear seal or a front seal from the timing cover. never good. engine from junk yard, fewer miles, replaced $3k, wheel bearings $300 per wheel, wheel alignment along with the follow up bushing replacement $1200, dropping the gas tank for fuel pump or whatever $300. Future transmission swap $1500-$3000. and you think you can avoid this by buying another used car with less mileage? just postponing. repair/replace and drive it into the ground, always cheaper than buying new.

[FriarQuade]

You need a Miata, that's always the answer to a car question.

[JAGI410]

You need a Miata, that's always the answer to a car question.

That's not a bad suggestion actually. My supercharged 2000 gets 30mpg when driven responsbily. Super easy to work on. Ridiculously easy to get parts for. Fun in winter (with proper tires and LSD rear end) and since the cabin is so small it heats up quick. Can put a hitch on it for a bike rack or small trailer.

[zap]

edit


I would avoid all German cars and especially German, made in Mexico cars and CVT transmissions.
For the long term, nah.

Our 21 year old +200K mile MB would shrug and say whatever if it could. Extremely reliable. Our repair folder from new is extremely thin, regular maintenance, front suspension bushings (once) and an ac compressor went kaput 4 years ago.

Cheapest car we've owned.

We have two other reliable MB's but they are too new at 12 and 5 years old.

Bottom line, it depends. Personally I wouldn't touch any BMW or Audi. Some MB's are also problematic initially but once sorted should last a long time.

[Mzilliox]

im gonna jump in this thread instead of start new and i hope thats ok, and my input adds value. I just test drove a subabru outback, 2016 top end model. the road noise was surprising. i kept checking to make sure the doors were all the way closed. is this normal for subarus? the car was on a ford lot, so the salesman simply said, yeah, all subarus are really noisy, im not sure why we sell so many.

so are there any cars comparable to a subaru (awd, space for stuff, semi rugged) with less road noise or do i have to go to something like a volvo, who then gets worse gas mileage?

My sister has a honda fit, i think it would get stuck in the rain and snow here a few times per year. otherwise not a bad car

[Ralph]

One of my concerns would the vehicles you are considering in your price range might have similar problems to the vehicle you already have. So you go pay retail for something you still have to fix up. Might be cheaper to just fix the problems you have now. Take it to a good garage and go from one end to another. Might cost you a few thousand to have a reliable car, but hey....you were willing to spend some cash without really knowing what you were getting.

if your current vehicle has rust issues.....then disregard above.

[Ozz]

I'll jump in too....

How many miles do you drive per year?

Given your criteria I would stick with Honda or Toyota..

I have a 2003 Honda Pilot, 105,000 miles and current trade in value is about $3000...retail would probably be $4-5000 I would imagine. It has been trouble free for 15 yrs...just gas, scheduled maintenance, tires and brakes. It does not get great mileage (~15 mpg mixed driving) but I only drive it about 4000 miles per year.

A Pilot might be bigger than what you are looking for, but is certainly checks the boxes for reliability, hitch rack capable, and suitable for road trips. Throw a box on the roof and you have even more room.

I also have a 2008 Prius....again, very trouble free. No idea of the value on it, but incredibly reliable...just scheduled maintenance and tires in 10 yrs. My son drives it. They have tons of room, but not tons of power. It is perfect for around town type driving....it is not my favorite for highway driving mostly due to size and how light it is.

I would not worry about the battery life...even with an old battery you will still get 30+ mpg with the gas engine. No AWD on these, and you are limited to 1.25" hitch. They get a lot of flak from car-snobs, but they are pretty cheap and reliable transportation, even if driving them is a lot like driving a golf cart.

Good luck in your search....

[pasadena]

All I own are german cars.

The best, smartest engineering that is designed to last forever?
Toyota. Hands down.



edit



Our 21 year old +200K mile MB would shrug and say whatever if it could. Extremely reliable. Our repair folder from new is extremely thin, regular maintenance, front suspension bushings (once) and an ac compressor went kaput 4 years ago.

Cheapest car we've owned.

We have two other reliable MB's but they are too new at 12 and 5 years old.

Bottom line, it depends. Personally I wouldn't touch any BMW or Audi. Some MB's are also problematic initially but once sorted should last a long time.

[fmradio516]

My grandpa had a 1987 MB 300TD(Since new) that had over 400k miles on it. It was the best running car in the family and never had any major issues besides around the middle of its life, need some regular suspension work(dont remember what exactly). A few years ago, he brought it in for a rattle and they found that the winter salt completely rotted out the shock towers mounts. He had to junk it. I guess thats what you get for driving through NY winters and dont take it to get the undercarriage washed/rinsed regularly.

[Ken Robb]

im gonna jump in this thread instead of start new and i hope thats ok, and my input adds value. I just test drove a subabru outback, 2016 top end model. the road noise was surprising. i kept checking to make sure the doors were all the way closed. is this normal for subarus? the car was on a ford lot, so the salesman simply said, yeah, all subarus are really noisy, im not sure why we sell so many.


A great deal of road noise is caused by tires and there can be a huge difference in the amount of noise generated by tire A vs. tire B. Generally the more aggressive/knobby the tread the more noise. OTOH sometimes seemingly similar tires will vary in noise level more than you would guess from looking at them. Tire Rack tests always rate tires for noise so checking there is a good idea. Some tires get noisier as they age so that may be part of the problem with a used car too.

[pasadena]

My grandpa had a 1987 MB 300TD(Since new) that had over 400k miles on it. It was the best running car in the family and never had any major issues besides around the middle of its life, need some regular suspension work(dont remember what exactly). A few years ago, he brought it in for a rattle and they found that the winter salt completely rotted out the shock towers mounts. He had to junk it. I guess thats what you get for driving through NY winters and dont take it to get the undercarriage washed/rinsed regularly.

Anything pre-1994 Mercedes is amazingly well engineered and truly designed to last a million miles
Those old diesels are indestructible

[wasfast]

All I own are german cars.

The best, smartest engineering that is designed to last forever?
Toyota. Hands down.

It's difficult to make high level brand recommendations as all of them have had issues of some sort. I have a 2008 Scion tC, 127K miles currently. It burns oil like no tomorrow (and has since 40K miles) and it's a factory issue. They lost a class action lawsuit over it. Bad piston rings. 3 sets of front struts, the transmission intermittently won't shift to high on the freeway, plenty of road noise and just about anything plastic breaks it seems.......I like Toyota's but this car has been a turd.

[C40_guy]

All I own are german cars.

The best, smartest engineering that is designed to last forever?
Toyota. Hands down.

All I own are german cars too...

I refuse to die of boredom while driving a Toyota!

[C40_guy]

Bottom line, it depends. Personally I wouldn't touch any BMW or Audi. Some MB's are also problematic initially but once sorted should last a long time.

I briefly had a '93 W124 diesel. Stupid things broke on that car which were not fixable -- taillight cluster @ $200, for example. Very different ergonomics than other german cars, and it couldn't move under its own power in snow, with new Nokian snows...

So I went back to Audi. Similar year Audis were better thought out, both mechanically and ergonomically. Seemed to be a generation more advanced for
similar production years.

All four of my Audis have 100K or more miles. I like to buy them at about 100K...depreciation curve has flattened out, initial mechanical and electrical bugs have been addressed.

[BikeNY]

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on your options. There are pros and cons to all of the options, and then of course there's always the chance of getting a lemon even with Honda and Toyota.

A VW TDI wagon will get great fuel economy and have lots of room, but expensive parts and maintenance. The Diesel engine itself should last forever, but everything else is a gamble.

A Prius is a safe but uninspiring option. Great fuel economy around town and decent highway. Toyota quality.

How about a Mazda 6 wagon? Probably falls somewhere between the above 2 concerning fuel economy and repair costs.

It's obviously a gamble, as you never know how the car was treated by the previous owner(s) and what issues may be hiding. The safest option if you really want to keep costs down is to keep the current car running. Not very exciting, I know...

Edit: In your situation, I don't think AWD makes sense. FWD and a good set of snow tires will get you anywhere you need to go. The added upfront expense, increased maintenance costs, and decreased fuel economy are not worth it.

[jbreebs]

I'll check out the mazda 6 wagon as well, thanks for the suggestion. I think agree with most of the opinions here that AWD isn't worth it, which likely rules out the Subaru and Volvo (haven't heard much from anyone on the volvo front). I think a newer honda or toyota may be the ticket. Anyone have knowledge on their smaller suv's (rav4, cr-v?)? Not 100% sure I'm sold on the Fit, though I should probably take one for a test drive before I judge it.

As fun as a miata might be, it just doesn't have the space I need. I do too many things that require taking lots of bulky stuff with me.

[Mark McM]

I'll check out the mazda 6 wagon as well, thanks for the suggestion. I think agree with most of the opinions here that AWD isn't worth it, which likely rules out the Subaru and Volvo (haven't heard much from anyone on the volvo front). I think a newer honda or toyota may be the ticket. Anyone have knowledge on their smaller suv's (rav4, cr-v?)? Not 100% sure I'm sold on the Fit, though I should probably take one for a test drive before I judge it.

The Mazda6 Wagon is reputed to be a very fine vehicle - but unfortunately, it hasn't been available in the US for about a decade. If you are looking for cross-over SUV, Mazda has a good one in the CX-5, which is based on the Mazda 3/6 platform.

[Hawker]

I drove a Mazda 6 for a week the first year they were available. It was a wonderful car, I loved it. Initial reviews were great but I'm not sure what they are saying about the used ones at this point.

Nice thing about this car is nice handling (more Accord-like than Camry), perky even with the smaller motor and very excellent gas milage. Only thing I'm not sure of is bike carrying capacity?

[cmg]

It would be hard to use the word reliable and Audi in the same sentence. :) just saying....

[Gummee]

You need a Miata, that's always the answer to a car question.

If we're going to talk sports cars: S2000

If we're going to talk sports sedans: 330i or 328i If you're somewhat handy with a wrench, there's all kinds of support for the older BMWs online and on the BMW specific forums. This car is an 04 X3 with a 6MT that's been pretty good overall. Had I known about some of the 'gotchas' before time was up, I don't think I would've had to do some of the repairs I've had to do.

Last car was an 02 328i. Probably one of the last 'driver's cars' that don't have all the gizmos or computers to go wrong.

Parts ARE more, but the cars are (were) built really well. ..and the driving experience! Oh my!

My Dad always told me to buy something top of the line and 1-owner if possible. That 1st owner has probably cared for the car better than a less expensive car.

HTH

M

[BikeNY]

The Mazda6 Wagon is reputed to be a very fine vehicle - but unfortunately, it hasn't been available in the US for about a decade. If you are looking for cross-over SUV, Mazda has a good one in the CX-5, which is based on the Mazda 3/6 platform.

That's exactly why I suggested it, he's looking for cars older than 10 years!

[pasadena]

I'll check out the mazda 6 wagon as well, thanks for the suggestion. I think agree with most of the opinions here that AWD isn't worth it, which likely rules out the Subaru and Volvo (haven't heard much from anyone on the volvo front). I think a newer honda or toyota may be the ticket. Anyone have knowledge on their smaller suv's (rav4, cr-v?)? Not 100% sure I'm sold on the Fit, though I should probably take one for a test drive before I judge it.

As fun as a miata might be, it just doesn't have the space I need. I do too many things that require taking lots of bulky stuff with me.

Rav4 and Crv are perennial best picks for used cars. However, they are popular so you will pay more.
The 07-15 Scion Xb is a very roomy and practical compact. If you like the funky style, it's a good pick.

For your budget, I think the Camry is still a great pick. Big pool to choose from and you can pick up a good, lower mileage one.

[pasadena]

I have Audis and they are reliable. The most reliable compared to BMW and Merc.
Mercs are so cheaply made now. They are garbage and I have no qualms saying that. The quality of the components is total trash. There are a couple good models.

Audi went to all screens for 2019 interiors- no buttons- so those are going to be worthless on the used market. Value will crater bigger than a S-class.

Toyota can be boring but they are great vehicles. Most need cars as tools- and tools are boring but good ones always work and people appreciate that.
For an SUV, I don't need anything sportier than a RX F-Sport. And those are indestructible.

They don't have the sexy, understated German thing but they also don't require even half the maintenance.
And the cheapo plastics and components the Germans use... just disposable garbage.
The cost for fun...

I briefly had a '93 W124 diesel. Stupid things broke on that car which were not fixable -- taillight cluster @ $200, for example. Very different ergonomics than other german cars, and it couldn't move under its own power in snow, with new Nokian snows...

So I went back to Audi. Similar year Audis were better thought out, both mechanically and ergonomically. Seemed to be a generation more advanced for
similar production years.

All four of my Audis have 100K or more miles. I like to buy them at about 100K...depreciation curve has flattened out, initial mechanical and electrical bugs have been addressed.

[JAGI410]

(haven't heard much from anyone on the volvo front)..

I had a 98 Volvo V70R for about a year. Bought it cheap because it needed work. I was amazed at how easy it was to get parts for from FCP Euro and a couple other websites. Some parts were very reasonably priced and others were ridiculous. Some parts are easy to replace (heater core is a 10 minute job!) but things like a PCV valve took 4-6 hours.

Great to drive (especially the V70R with turbo/awd), really comfortable and mileage was surprisingly decent. I'd buy another Volvo for sure. $5k would buy quite a nice one.

[fmradio516]

My Dad always told me to buy something top of the line and 1-owner if possible. That 1st owner has probably cared for the car better than a less expensive car.



I was always told that as well, but I have been looking at some Subarus and Toyotas lately, and the price difference between brand new and a couple years old isnt enough for me to go for the used. I am just paranoid that the used car was either a loaner or a lease that someone knew they were giving back after a few years so they didnt take care of it.

[Gummee]

I was always told that as well, but I have been looking at some Subarus and Toyotas lately, and the price difference between brand new and a couple years old isnt enough for me to go for the used. I am just paranoid that the used car was either a loaner or a lease that someone knew they were giving back after a few years so they didnt take care of it.

My X3 was a company car for it's 1st owner. It isn't always bad

M

[jbreebs]

I was driving to pick up pizza the other night and drove past a Prius parked on the street with a for sale sign. I hopped off and took a peek, it's a 2011 base model, 182k miles on it. In very nice shape overall, but missing a panel piece under the drivers side doors. The owner bought it new and has driven it daily (highway miles mostly) as part of his service business. He's asking $5400 for it, and I'm taking it for a test drive tonight. We'll see how that goes, I guess? Would an offer of ~$4600 be out of line, assuming I like it enough to pursue further? KBB didn't give me a great feel for value, and the guy told me he turned down an offer of ~$4200 last week.

Any opinions on whether or not a pre-purchase inspection is necessary/worth it?

[seanile]

Any opinions on whether or not a pre-purchase inspection is necessary/worth it?always take it to a shop for a quick once over.

[pasadena]

I was driving to pick up pizza the other night and drove past a Prius parked on the street with a for sale sign. I hopped off and took a peek, it's a 2011 base model, 182k miles on it. In very nice shape overall, but missing a panel piece under the drivers side doors. The owner bought it new and has driven it daily (highway miles mostly) as part of his service business. He's asking $5400 for it, and I'm taking it for a test drive tonight. We'll see how that goes, I guess? Would an offer of ~$4600 be out of line, assuming I like it enough to pursue further? KBB didn't give me a great feel for value, and the guy told me he turned down an offer of ~$4200 last week.

Any opinions on whether or not a pre-purchase inspection is necessary/worth it?

Since it's a car you are unfamilar with, inspection is cheap insurance.
I think the only big thing to check is the condition of the batteries. Although I have read even replacing these is a easy DIY.

182k is a lot, pay attention to wear items like tires and tire wear pattern, shocks, bushings, brakes, HVAC all functional.
From all accounts, a very bulletproof car.

[zap]

edit

I hopped off and took a peek, it's a 2011 base model, 182k miles on it. In very nice shape overall, but missing a panel piece under the drivers side doors. The owner bought it new and has driven it daily (highway miles mostly) as part of his service business. He's asking $5400 for it, and I'm taking it for a test drive tonight. We'll see how that goes, I guess? Would an offer of ~$4600 be out of line, assuming I like it enough to pursue further? KBB didn't give me a great feel for value, and the guy told me he turned down an offer of ~$4200 last week.

Any opinions on whether or not a pre-purchase inspection is necessary/worth it?

Age is not too terrible (for the basic car) but that is a lot of mileage for the money.

If the basic car works (& was inspected) and doesn't have too much rust, you have to then factor time and use of the battery pack.........I wouldn't recommend anything beyond $US3K.

But that's me......I think many used car prices are too high.

As too pre purchase inspection, absolutely. I know my way around cars (I take them apart, fix electric modules, etc) but I would still have my trusted shop (extra eyes) take a close look.

[AngryScientist]

as said, that's a lot of miles, and even the best made cars are having major stuff just worn out by then.

on a test drive, turn the radio off and make a point to go over some major bumps and rough road. see how the suspension feels and how it absorbs shock. listen for odd clunks. how much play is in the steering, the rack has a lot of miles on it and may have excessive play. check condition of all rubber stuff, hoses belts, bushings etc. ideally you would want to have some idea of how much, if any oil the engine is burning, and what condition the transmission fluid is in as a telltale sign for how it's operating. condition of the exhaust system front to back, including the engine header.

i do all my own car stuff and would be comfortable with inspecting it myself, but otherwise, i would have a pro look at it.

no way i would pay 5k for a prius in spitting distance to 200k. under 3k is better.

[Hawker]

I know a bit about cars, but nothing about the Prius. I'd at least check Consumer Reports for a check on Repair Frequency and weak areas of the car to look out for.
Any good shop ought to at least be able to check suspension areas for you, even if they don't know Hybrids.

Last, go to Autotrader.com and find what the cars seem to be selling for in your area. Remember asking price seldom is selling price.

My gut tells me I'd rather be driving a Camry with this kind of milage instead of a Prius...but I'm old school.

[likebikes]

4k gets you a lot of used honda fit, just saying.

[hokoman]

I know a bunch of people have commented on a Honda FIT. Mine will be on a truck on its way here, in my original post I said that it wasn't a good highway car. I spent last night reading up on making it more enjoyable for highway miles - solution - DYNAMAT the heck out of it! It'll make the noise more tolerable.

BTW, a Prius with that many miles shouldn't be a huge deal because it runs on gas for highway miles? (doesn't it?) Personally, I would try and find a car under 100k miles.

[texbike]

After driving European cars as daily drivers for a majority of my adult life, I've given up on them and become a believer in used Lexus products for primary transportation. They have fantastic materials/build quality and have the typical Toyota reliability. It seems that many of them have received a higher level of attention and maintenance from their owners perhaps due to their pricepoints when new. It's hard to beat a well-cared for 10-15 year old Lexus as a daily driver. LS, GS, ES models are great options in their sedan line and the RX (330 or 350) and GXs (470) are great SUV options.

The only Euro cars that I'll have now are old classics for weekends/occasional use.

Texbike

[RocketPockets]

I'm thinking about leasing/financing 2019 Mazda 3 Hatch, they also have a sedan model. The design looks great - exterior and interior wise. They now offer AWD and manual so that is a huge plus. I was considering Subaru but Mazda is killing it with this 2019 line-up.

If you want to check it out, It will be available sometime next year. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhKpPqfnALY)

[54ny77]

Mario Cippolini would not approve of this thread full of discussion about practicality, Toyota camry's and miles per gallon.

“I read an interview with Umberto Veronesi, a scientist, a reputed oncologist and Minister for Health,” Cipollini continued. “In five hundred years or more, human beings might have both sets of genitalia, male and female. I don’t want this evolution to have started already in cycling…”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cipollini-decries-modern-cyclings-lack-of-machismo/

:p

[Ken Robb]

I'm thinking about leasing/financing 2019 Mazda 3 Hatch, they also have a sedan model. The design looks great - exterior and interior wise. They now offer AWD and manual so that is a huge plus. I was considering Subaru but Mazda is killing it with this 2019 line-up.

If you want to check it out, It will be available sometime next year. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhKpPqfnALY)

We bought a new Mazda 3 sedan in 2014. It was about $500 less than the hatchback. With fold-down seat standard we thought we could do without the hatch. Plus I think the sedan is a bit quieter since the rear wheel wells are in the trunk rather than in the open storage area of the hatch.

We let old friends drive our Mazda because their BMW 530ix had 200,000 miles and needed to be replaced. They loved our Mazda 3 sedan and went to buy one. At the dealer they sat in a CX-5 which is like a taller Mazda 3 hatch/SUV. They bought the CX-5 because it is easier for old folks to get in/out. As my old pal said "the seat is about the same level as my butt so I don't have to squat to get in. I may need on to replace my MINI Cooper S.

Our Mazda experience has been wonderful with only normal maintenance costing $65-95 every 7500 miles. It still drives like a new car with 50,000 miles.

[texbike]

Mario Cippolini would not approve of this thread full of discussion about practicality, Toyota camry's and miles per gallon.

“I read an interview with Umberto Veronesi, a scientist, a reputed oncologist and Minister for Health,” Cipollini continued. “In five hundred years or more, human beings might have both sets of genitalia, male and female. I don’t want this evolution to have started already in cycling…”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cipollini-decries-modern-cyclings-lack-of-machismo/

:p

^haha! Cipo - raising the average of free testosterone scores whereever he goes.

Hard to believe that this guy is over 50 now!

Texbike

[Louis]

Cipo would approve of this Subaru:

https://youtu.be/a3gx6n8MEAE

(but no topless shots of our very own Christian)

[mcteague]

Mario Cippolini would not approve of this thread full of discussion about practicality, Toyota camry's and miles per gallon.

“I read an interview with Umberto Veronesi, a scientist, a reputed oncologist and Minister for Health,” Cipollini continued. “In five hundred years or more, human beings might have both sets of genitalia, male and female. I don’t want this evolution to have started already in cycling…”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cipollini-decries-modern-cyclings-lack-of-machismo/

:p

Anyone who thinks humans could evolve that much in 500 years or so has no business calling themselves a scientist. :crap: Most likely he heard wrong.

Tim

[jbreebs]

Test drove the prius last night. Not entirely sure how I feel about it - I have some minor complaints that I think would just take some getting used to. For instance, the rear window is split in half and is kind of hard to see out of through the rearview mirror. The center console is rather strange, and that "gear shifter/selector" thing... funky! that said, it seems to be in relatively good shape. Obvious wear and tear from 7 years/182k miles of everyday use. I'm a bit more worried about the high mileage than I was prior to the test drive, but still undecided. I think I should test drive some more vehicles and maybe this will work out, maybe not.

[oldpotatoe]

Test drove the prius last night. Not entirely sure how I feel about it - I have some minor complaints that I think would just take some getting used to. For instance, the rear window is split in half and is kind of hard to see out of through the rearview mirror. The center console is rather strange, and that "gear shifter/selector" thing... funky! that said, it seems to be in relatively good shape. Obvious wear and tear from 7 years/182k miles of everyday use. I'm a bit more worried about the high mileage than I was prior to the test drive, but still undecided. I think I should test drive some more vehicles and maybe this will work out, maybe not.
For out-of-warranty cars, you've got two choices: replace the battery, or the car. As we've told you before, the unit cost of a Toyota Prius battery pack is between $2,300 and $2,590, depending on the model you have. Installation of a new pack is likely to cost you more

For info I'll bet you already know..

[Ozz]

There is not really a huge volume of batteries being replaced on old Prius's...I would not worry too much about the battery pack...this is an old survey but I would expect current trends to be similar.

And yes, the gas motor does most the work at highway speeds

[Gummee]

Test drove the prius last night. Not entirely sure how I feel about it - I have some minor complaints that I think would just take some getting used to. For instance, the rear window is split in half and is kind of hard to see out of through the rearview mirror. The center console is rather strange, and that "gear shifter/selector" thing... funky! that said, it seems to be in relatively good shape. Obvious wear and tear from 7 years/182k miles of everyday use. I'm a bit more worried about the high mileage than I was prior to the test drive, but still undecided. I think I should test drive some more vehicles and maybe this will work out, maybe not.

friend's dad has a Prius with 325k+ miles on it. Still going strong

I'm holding out for a sports hybrid that isn't a supercar

M

[gemship]

friend's dad has a Prius with 325k+ miles on it. Still going strong

I'm holding out for a sports hybrid that isn't a supercar

M

I would like to see a hybrid with big emphasis on the electric aspect full size 4wd 1/2 ton truck. Seems to me there is a good market for this in the US. It would have to have the same power/torque output as a gas powered model or even a diesel for that matter and be able to run at least a 80 miles on a single charge. That may not seem impressive but I'm talking about something with great towing and hauling capability. The thing is most folks including myself by the gas powered trucks like this and use them with their crappy fuel mileage locally and as such don't worry about paying at the pump cause their relatively cheap. So long as one isn't running high miles daily. I think if the tech was their it would be reasonable to even convert an all gas one.

[gemship]

There is not really a huge volume of batteries being replaced on old Prius's...I would not worry too much about the battery pack...this is an old survey but I would expect current trends to be similar.

And yes, the gas motor does most the work at highway speeds

If a Prius was built more like a Subaru Outback I'd be all over it. I bought my used Subie with a decent warranty as it was the only way I would and the sales guy seemed to know it when I asked about the head gaskets and timing belt. Since he couldn't be absolutely sure of what was done even with a carfax report but having said that if you add up all the 100k mile maintenance stuff I bet it's not much more or less than a new battery for a Prius.

[gemship]

^haha! Cipo - raising the average of free testosterone scores whereever he goes.

Hard to believe that this guy is over 50 now!

Texbike

Meh, he looks great. Buff and all that but he looks every bit of what a 50 year old tall, stoic in appearance individual who works out, eats well, sun bathes should look like. Did I mention a full head of hair?...but it's hard to dye that 5 o'clock shadow:p

[buddybikes]

I need to replace my Saab 9-5 wagon. Requirements:
1. HID/Xenon or LED headlights
2. Wagon
3. Low height. Wife 5'2" and loading kayaks on SUV not done without steps, which she doesn't want
4. Very comfortable seat for a bad back

I am narrowed down it appears to a CPO Audi Allroad or Volvo V60

these SUV's are taking USA over, nice wagons overseas but little here

any ideas, what should I choose among the 2 above?

[pasadena]

I need to replace my Saab 9-5 wagon. Requirements:
1. HID/Xenon or LED headlights
2. Wagon
3. Low height. Wife 5'2" and loading kayaks on SUV not done without steps, which she doesn't want
4. Very comfortable seat for a bad back

I am narrowed down it appears to a CPO Audi Allroad or Volvo V60

these SUV's are taking USA over, nice wagons overseas but little here

any ideas, what should I choose among the 2 above?

The allroad air suspension will blow out and fail. If you're okay with dropping $3-4K on repairs in the future, it's a gussied up A4 Avant so it's a great car otherwise.
Way better than the V60 wagon but the airbag suspension can be problematic on the Allroad. Maybe you will be lucky and it will fail in the CPO warranty zone.

I saw the new 2019 V60 wagon at the autoshow a few weeks ago and it's fantastic but I would never own it. Unless it comes with a 10 yr blanket warranty, It's a lease vehicle for sure.

Also a very impressive wagon is the Buick TourX. It's larger than the Allroad and seems super practical with nice style. Maybe even some dealer incentives if you find a few on the lot.

Between a new TourX and a CPO Allroad it would be a tough choice. I really liked the TourX - it's not as nice inside BUT worth a look if you like wagons.

[buddybikes]

thx and yuck i guess....

Maybe the stepstool is our only solution and get crossover or perhaps a big sedan and live with the lack of space.

[2metalhips]

Still haven't found that elusive TSX wagon yet? 2 kayaks and bike go on top. No manstep needed.

[AngryScientist]

I need to replace my Saab 9-5 wagon. Requirements:
1. HID/Xenon or LED headlights
2. Wagon
3. Low height. Wife 5'2" and loading kayaks on SUV not done without steps, which she doesn't want
4. Very comfortable seat for a bad back

I am narrowed down it appears to a CPO Audi Allroad or Volvo V60

these SUV's are taking USA over, nice wagons overseas but little here

any ideas, what should I choose among the 2 above?

short of the fancy headlights, this should do nicely :D:D:D

https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/1000/0/uploads/posts/2017/05/431e7e0065e45c35968c758a624bb2e0.jpg

[fmradio516]

^ thats the same 300 that my grandpa had until the body rusted out at over 400k miles. Such a great car. Though his wasnt AMG :)

[echappist]

Buick Regal Tour X; decently-loaded vehicles apparently on sale at $26k, brand new
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/sctitdclg3zqydeueysx.png
That plastic cladding is also supposedly removable

https://hips.hearstapps.com/amv-prod-cad-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/media/assets/submodel/8168.jpg

[dbnm]

I have a 2013 Volvo XC70 with the T6 (turbo straight six) motor and AWD.

I had the Polestar option done at the dealer when I bought it. The car now has 325hp and 350 torque. It goes like a bat outta hell, especially in sport mode.

If you don't hot-rod it on the highway, 27mpg is easily achieved. It's a joy to drive and really quiet inside.

I'll hang onto this car for a few more years. I just don't see any reason to sell it or trade it.

[BobbyJones]

This is GM's best kept secret. I got to spend some time in one of these and a Regal GS this summer (also swallows a bike in the trunk).

Besides the boy racer looks of the GS seating, these are pretty killer cars if its the class you're looking for.




Buick Regal Tour X; decently-loaded vehicles apparently on sale at $26k, brand new
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/sctitdclg3zqydeueysx.png
That plastic cladding is also supposedly removable

https://hips.hearstapps.com/amv-prod-cad-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/media/assets/submodel/8168.jpg

[Ralph]

yes....The Buick is extremely under appreciated or known about.

[mcteague]

Still haven't found that elusive TSX wagon yet? 2 kayaks and bike go on top. No manstep needed.

Yeah, but I still have a tough time getting my bike in back with the front wheel removed. You have to angle it around the rear wheel suspension bumps and it takes up all the room. For a wagon, the storage space is minimal.

Tim

[zap]

thx and yuck i guess....

Maybe the stepstool is our only solution and get crossover or perhaps a big sedan and live with the lack of space.

Check out Arnott. Cost effective, quality rebuilt air suspension components. Coupled with a quality indy, easily half the cost of Audi/dealership pricing with the added bonus of lifetime warranty on the bladder.

[Ken Robb]

I think the Buick wagons are re-badged Opels and GM has sold Opel. Future resale and support may not be very good.

[echappist]

I think the Buick wagons are re-badged Opels and GM has sold Opel. Future resale and support may not be very good.

Uou are indeed correct

[cderalow]

you probably know this already, but when you're in the market for a <$5k car, with a pile of miles on it already, you really have to buy the individual car, not focus only on a particular model. there is going to be a whole lot of junk out there in that price range that will be at the end of life and highly unlikely to go another 5 years before it's dead.

you really need to be relentless about checking for rust/rot and other telltale signs of a car that doesnt have much life left in it. understanding how the previous owner(s) took care of the car will be important. at 175k miles or so, most hondas are going to be deep into their second timing belt and ready for a new one, which is not a cheap job or a particularly easy DIY project.

i wouldnt touch any german car in that price range with that many miles without having a VERY good idea about the maintenance history. bear in mind TDIs are pretty sensitive to what motor oil they need, and it's expensive. using the wrong oil for 50k miles is going to result in sludge and varnish issues which will cost you eventually.

there is certainly a lot of love for them, and it's highly subjective, but i test drove a FIT a long time ago, a brand new one and absolutely hated it. loud, very cheap feeling interior and severely underpowered. i'd hate to drive it anywhere that has hills or passes to contend with.


SUVs are wildly popular right now, so that is propping their used prices up. for the money you are looking to spend, you will get a lot more car if you stick with a sedan, if i were in your shoes and the camry has worked well for you, i'd be looking for another one of them or an accord.

FYI most 4 cylinder hondas post 2006 have timing chains.

The 6 cylinders still used belts as of at least 2011.

[AngryScientist]

FYI most 4 cylinder hondas post 2006 have timing chains.

The 6 cylinders still used belts as of at least 2011.

interesting. did not know that. i havent owned a honda 4-banger in many years.

my '15 ody still has a belt.

[cderalow]

interesting. did not know that. i havent owned a honda 4-banger in many years.

my '15 ody still has a belt.

yeah, so does my 2011.

The 1.5L in the fit was always a chain.
in 2006 the 1.8L civic engine went chain.
the 2.0 & 2.4L engines in the Accord and CR-V went chain in 2002/2003.

the 3.0L & 3.5L V6 have always been belt in every damn model that has them (ridgeline, odyssey, accord, pilot) and they're a complete pain in the ass to replace.

Though I'll be honest, my van has 153k on it and it hasn't been done, and my father used to maintain a fleet of them (400+) and in millions of miles, they never had one fail, with vans going into the 170k range before selling them off/replacing the timing belt.

it was always the old 1.3L, 1.6L & 1.7L civics and accords that had belts and were prone to failure and then crushing valves.

the chains in the accords can still have issues due to low oil pressure since they use pressure to help the chain tensioner. the fit is all mechanical in that regard, so no problems there. I forget how they do it in the civic engines.

[mktng]

short of the fancy headlights, this should do nicely :D:D:D

https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/1000/0/uploads/posts/2017/05/431e7e0065e45c35968c758a624bb2e0.jpg

https://www.velocitycars.ca/vehicle/2001-Mercedes-Benz-E320-Wagon/21167?s=1

[C40_guy]

The allroad air suspension will blow out and fail. If you're okay with dropping $3-4K on repairs in the future, it's a gussied up A4 Avant so it's a great car otherwise.
Way better than the V60 wagon but the airbag suspension can be problematic on the Allroad. Maybe you will be lucky and it will fail in the CPO warranty zone.


You're thinking of the C5 allroad (2001-2005). Current generation allroad is built on the A4 platform (as you note) and it has coil springs. No air suspension.

Agreed that it is far better than the V60 -- more comfortable, more fun...

Go out and drive one.

[buddybikes]

Shopped till I dropped today, and ended up with a 2015 Audi Allroad. Just "fit" me, moving from my Saab 9-5. Hope it works out well. Nice car, dogs in the way back

[pasadena]

You're thinking of the C5 allroad (2001-2005). Current generation allroad is built on the A4 platform (as you note) and it has coil springs. No air suspension.

Agreed that it is far better than the V60 -- more comfortable, more fun...

Go out and drive one.

Thanks for the correction

[pasadena]

Shopped till I dropped today, and ended up with a 2015 Audi Allroad. Just "fit" me, moving from my Saab 9-5. Hope it works out well. Nice car, dogs in the way back

congrats!

[C40_guy]

Thanks for the correction

No worries. Air suspensions aren't that expensive to maintain, if you have a *good( private mechanic and keep after any issues. Typically an airbag leaks, which causes the compressor to run overtime, overheat and then fail. Catch a leaking airbag early and you have no issues with the compressor. Occasionally valve blocks fail. Again, no big deal...

I've had four vehicles with air, a County LWB, RR 4.0, Touareg V6 TDi and an '04 allroad. Only had minor issues over the years. Love the flexibility, particularly for towing with the Treg, and for older parents getting into tall SUV more easily. Replaced the Treg with a Q7 TDi, would have gone with air if one had been available...

[C40_guy]

Shopped till I dropped today, and ended up with a 2015 Audi Allroad. Just "fit" me, moving from my Saab 9-5. Hope it works out well. Nice car, dogs in the way back

Sweet. Welcome to the club. If you live where it snows a lot, pick up a set of four Nokian snows on 17" wheels and enjoy winter even more!

[jbreebs]

Update - I took the Prius in to a shop to get a pre-purchase inspection done, and they found that there was major corrosion in the fuse box, to the point that they couldn't get the computer hooked up. They also found engine oil leaks, and some of the under body panels were missing. They told me that purchasing this vehicle would be a poor decision, and I'm going to take their advice. I'm so glad I'm only out $100 and not stuck with a $4400 car that has major issues.

[BikeNY]

I've had 2 cars with air suspension, and both have needed very costly repairs. First I had a CPO Audi Allroad with a 6 speed manual transmission. I really liked that car, very handsome, great size(bigger than the newer Allroad, as it was based on the A6), sporty enough. But the fuel economy was not good at all, and the air suspension had 2 big repairs. They were covered under the warranty, but looking at the costs for those repairs, there was no way I was keeping the car when the warranty was up. Sure, the repairs would be cheaper at an independent shop, but each one was many thousands of dollars. Not fun walking out of work in the middle of the winter and seeing one corner of the car on the ground!

The other was a Mercedes GL diesel SUV. That thing was a tank! Huge and actually got decent mileage for such a big car, but again MAJOR repairs to the air suspension and other systems. Every time that thing went in for a service, the bill was $4000+. it was a company car, but we still dumped it soon after the warranty was up.

So yeah, I'm not a fan of air suspension. I like the concept, and I'm sure others have had better experiences, but I'm staying away!

The newer Allroad is nice as well. Smaller than the older one, nut no air suspension. Sadly, no manual transmission either.

[zap]

edit

Sure, the repairs would be cheaper at an independent shop, but each one was many thousands of dollars. Not fun walking out of work in the middle of the winter and seeing one corner of the car on the ground!

The other was a Mercedes GL diesel SUV. That thing was a tank! Huge and actually got decent mileage for such a big car, but again MAJOR repairs to the air suspension and other systems. Every time that thing went in for a service, the bill was $4000+. it was a company car, but we still dumped it soon after the warranty was up.

We had an airbag go on our MB500 wagon. Sounded like fireworks in our garage when it went. I decided to replace both fronts with Arnotts and had my MB indy (who purchased the parts from arnottt) do the install. Bill was around $1800 parts and labour. Still not cheap but the air suspension is usefull for 80+ down interstates then raise the car up for light off roading.

I learned (a bit late) that Mercedes dealerships are........effectively thieves. What a mechanic can do in 15 minutes on a Mercedes a MB dealership will charge 2-4 hours inflated labour. I think a MB dealership quoted my dad $2K for a transmission fluid change. The people at MBUSA are smoking some wicked weed.........he found an indy who did it for $400.....and allowed him to watch the work (per factory spec) being done.

Really curious where the pri fuse box is located and why it was so corroded.