Campy Bora 35 spoke broke again

[SoCal Al]

Argh! New Bora 35s since June and this is the second drive-side spoke that's broken. Returned the wheel via LBS to Campy the last time, fixed it under warranty as well as checked tension & true. No problems for about a month and then bang! yesterday.

Another LBS said previously that it's not uncommon for wheels to get built up with a bad batch of spokes every now and then but that seems like a cop-out answer to vendor/supplier QC?

Anyone else have this problem and if so how was it resolved?

FWIW I weigh 180, do not shed watts or race or anything like that but do typically ride 40-60 miles/4,000-5,000' a couple times a week in sunny SoCal.

[oldpotatoe]

Argh! New Bora 35s since June and this is the second drive-side spoke that's broken. Returned the wheel via LBS to Campy the last time, fixed it under warranty as well as checked tension & true. No problems for about a month and then bang! yesterday.

Another LBS said previously that it's not uncommon for wheels to get built up with a bad batch of spokes every now and then but that seems like a cop-out answer to vendor/supplier QC?

Anyone else have this problem and if so how was it resolved?

FWIW I weigh 180, do not shed watts or race or anything like that but do typically ride 40-60 miles/4,000-5,000' a couple times a week in sunny SoCal.

That's balderdash...

I'd say, unfortunately that breaking spokes mean the rim is somehow 'deformed' or 'dented' or something(I know it's carbon) that means tension is erratic, not even, mostly too low, at that spot..think metal coat hanger, and back-forth-back-forth-break...
Spokes aren't the problem but the rim is..I'd say the next step is either another spoke, true/round/dish/tension and once true/round, is the tension even? If yes, ride and see..if another breaks, new rim.

Who did you buy the wheels from?

[Mikej]

Argh! New Bora 35s since June and this is the second drive-side spoke that's broken. Returned the wheel via LBS to Campy the last time, fixed it under warranty as well as checked tension & true. No problems for about a month and then bang! yesterday.

Another LBS said previously that it's not uncommon for wheels to get built up with a bad batch of spokes every now and then but that seems like a cop-out answer to vendor/supplier QC?

Anyone else have this problem and if so how was it resolved?

FWIW I weigh 180, do not shed watts or race or anything like that but do typically ride 40-60 miles/4,000-5,000' a couple times a week in sunny SoCal.

I agree with the LBS's description of the account. Manufacturing processes can yield slightly. These are aluminum type spokes?

[AngryScientist]

this is why you either need to own a tension meter and have a decent understanding of wheel dynamics or have a competent bike shop/wheelbuilder.

once you break one spoke in a wheel - you really need to get to the bottom of the matter of why the spoke broke. generally it's fatigue cycles that break a spoke - and that means something was wrong to start with. simply replacing the broken spoke without checking the other variables holding the rest of the wheel together is a recipe for more broken spokes.

as peter mentioned, you should be able to get the wheel very round and true with pretty consistent, even tension across the spokes. if you cant achieve this - you're always going to have a "sick" wheel.

[zap]

edit

These are aluminum type spokes?

Steel.

I have 4 good seasons on my Boras 35............so 10K plus miles on the wheelset. Never had a problem.

Anything impact the drive side spokes?

If not, agree with oldpotatoe though I'm inclined to ask that the wheel gets rebuilt now with new rim and spokes considering it is the second time.

[rst72]

Same here...175-180 pounds and do not race, etc.

I've broken one recently since i purchased them over a year ago.

It was a pain as shops don't typically carry Bora spokes. Wanted to be prepared next time...I purchased some off ebay...one set of Front L,R and Rear L Spokes, Nipples 8 pcs & one set of Rear Right Spokes and Nipples 8-pieces. $10 or so for the LBS to fix in the future and done while i wait.

[SoCal Al]

Thanks all and since I live in San Diego and Campy HQ is up the road the LBS brought the wheel to them under warranty, all the work was done by their tech who supposedly re-torqued all the spokes when the replacement one was installed. When I got the wheel back from the LBS I had him put it up on a truing stand just to be sure it was OK and it was in spec but I didn't hav ehim check the spoke tension.

While some of our roads a quite sh*tty here (not up to the level of NE) I do my utmost to avoid any potholes and am pretty sure I didn't hit any on my last ride.

I'll ask about the deformed/bent rim when I drop the wheel off today.

[R3awak3n]

Thanks all and since I live in San Diego and Campy HQ is up the road the LBS brought the wheel to them under warranty, all the work was done by their tech who supposedly re-torqued all the spokes when the replacement one was installed. When I got the wheel back from the LBS I had him put it up on a truing stand just to be sure it was OK and it was in spec but I didn't hav ehim check the spoke tension.

While some of our roads a quite sh*tty here (not up to the level of NE) I do my utmost to avoid any potholes and am pretty sure I didn't hit any on my last ride.

I'll ask about the deformed/bent rim when I drop the wheel off today.

Its definitely not you but the wheel. Maybe if you were over their max weight but you are not even close.

[rain dogs]

When the first spoke goes..... unless someone very competent is repairing the wheel.... the whole wheel can be a big mess, and if that's the case it's only a matter of time until the second, third, fourth go

The old saying was: Break one, repair it, break two, rebuild it. Rims are so strong now, that's surely overkill...but..

The good thing is you have a campagnolo wheel which are if not the best, pretty darn close to the best pre-built wheels available. They are tough as heck. A friend of mine hit a pothole really hard and blew a rear driveside spoke on his Zondas. We just wrapped it up and he rode the 10ish km to the train. The wheel was nearly dead true, the tiniest wobble. Rim was perfect. Didn't even need to open the brake caliper. He's not a huge guy, but not small either at 85kg.

I wouldn't have believed it if I wasn't the one doing the securing of the spoke. Actually, I still can barely believe it two weeks later. He wasn't happy about the 25€ for four spokes though... but hey, you pay for quality.

I'm only 66kg, and my Zondas have about 15,000km on them... as true as the day I took em out of the box. Those wheels are crazy good.

[SoCal Al]

UPDATE:

LBS heard back from Campy and they're going to replace all the drive-side spoke but I won't get my wheel back until late the week AFTER Thanksgiving. Guess they're slammed.

Went to put an backup cassette on my old school wheelset (Campy Daytona Hubs, Sapin SS spokes & 32H Mavic Open Pro ceramic rims) an dof course found out I needed 2 spacers, which hopefully will arrive Saturday.

[C40_guy]

If I remember correctly, the N+1 rule was originally developed for wheelsets, then it morphed to cover complete bicycles. :)

Extra wheel sets take up such little space, and you can even store them on your N+1 bikes!

[SoCal Al]

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So It's now been almost 5 weeks since my wheel have been at Campy and NO ONE seems to give a sh*t about communicating an update to my LBS. At one point the Campy contact told my guy he forgot about it (they were busy- seriously??)- what gives? If they're not going to stand behind a warranty issue then just tell me!

I'm pretty frustrated because they haven't done any work on it (partly LBS guy's fault because he's not a confronter) and will be shutting down for the holidays soon.

At this point i just want the wheel back and GLADLY pay my LBS to re-lace it even though it's a warranty issue.

Any thoughts? Anyone know someone on the inside I could call?

[DRietz]

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So It's now been almost 5 weeks since my wheel have been at Campy and NO ONE seems to give a sh*t about communicating an update to my LBS. At one point the Campy contact told my guy he forgot about it (they were busy- seriously??)- what gives? If they're not going to stand behind a warranty issue then just tell me!

I'm pretty frustrated because they haven't done any work on it (partly LBS guy's fault because he's not a confronter) and will be shutting down for the holidays soon.

At this point i just want the wheel back and GLADLY pay my LBS to re-lace it even though it's a warranty issue.

Any thoughts? Anyone know someone on the inside I could call?

Why don't you just call them instead of putting it on the guy at the LBS? 760-931-0106

Tell them that you're a loyal customer and would really like to do some riding on your fancy Campy wheels over the holiday, you've waited several weeks and would appreciate that they take care of it ASAP.

Edit: I'd take some deep breaths, though, and remember that, yes, this sucks, but it's the holidays and kindness kills. Good luck.

[merckx]

Why don't you just call them instead of putting it on the guy at the LBS? 760-931-0106

Tell them that you're a loyal customer and would really like to do some riding on your fancy Campy wheels over the holiday, you've waited several weeks and would appreciate that they take care of it ASAP.

Edit: I'd take some deep breaths, though, and remember that, yes, this sucks, but it's the holidays and kindness kills. Good luck.

I agree with all of this, but would add I would also ask the Campag guy if he has the Shimano number handy.

[DRietz]

I agree with all of this, but would add I would also ask the Campag guy if he has the Shimano number handy.

:banana:

[oldpotatoe]

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So It's now been almost 5 weeks since my wheel have been at Campy and NO ONE seems to give a sh*t about communicating an update to my LBS. At one point the Campy contact told my guy he forgot about it (they were busy- seriously??)- what gives? If they're not going to stand behind a warranty issue then just tell me!

I'm pretty frustrated because they haven't done any work on it (partly LBS guy's fault because he's not a confronter) and will be shutting down for the holidays soon.

At this point i just want the wheel back and GLADLY pay my LBS to re-lace it even though it's a warranty issue.

Any thoughts? Anyone know someone on the inside I could call?

Call Jerry at 760-931-0106

or email him at
ott@campagnolona.com

They have a very small staff, just went thru a major 'restructuring' as the head guy left..to be replaced by a gent from the mothership in Vicenza..

Tell Jerry Peter sent ya...be calmo...:)

[SoCal Al]

Thanks oldpotatoe, that'll be my backup. FWIW I have called in the past but they really don't like "retail" calls and always directed me to go through a LBS (which I did until he went OOB 2 months ago so I switched to a new guy and here I am).

I ended up reaching someone through their Facebook page who at first thought "yeah maybe by Friday" then pushed a little more and says it'll be ready Thursday. Hopefully!

[m4rk540]

While I prefer Campagnolo drivetrains, wheels included, I've never had a riding partner break a spoke on a Shimano wheel. And in my circle, there are twice as many Shimano wheels as Campagnolo. It's a small data set, but I've seen broken spokes on multiple Hyperons, Shamals and Bora 35s. All the riders are under 170. A couple are under 150.

[vqdriver]

Pretty much mirrors my experience with campy usa too. This is way back before whatever "restructuring".

Simple repairs cost obscene amounts. Campy wanted me to go thru lbs. Didnt answer or even acknowledge questions from lbs in a timely manner. Blah blah blah.
I left their little insider universe years ago.

I get the old timey euro cred. But while others get blasted for proprietary parts and dismissive cust svc, campy has always gotten a pass.
Too many other companies out there to deal with that for what, for me, was no benefit.

[SoCal Al]

So "allegedly" the wheel is done and my LBS will pick it up tomorrow. Lets' hope it stays in 1 piece from here on!

Thanks to all for their input and Merry Christmas (or however you roll)!

[oldpotatoe]

Pretty much mirrors my experience with campy usa too. This is way back before whatever "restructuring".

Simple repairs cost obscene amounts. Campy wanted me to go thru lbs. Didnt answer or even acknowledge questions from lbs in a timely manner. Blah blah blah.
I left their little insider universe years ago.

I get the old timey euro cred. But while others get blasted for proprietary parts and dismissive cust svc, campy has always gotten a pass.
Too many other companies out there to deal with that for what, for me, was no benefit.

Sorry, not my experience at all with Campagnolo North America..Great service from Jerry Ott, Dan large and Tom Kattus, until he left.

[fignon's barber]

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So It's now been almost 5 weeks since my wheel have been at Campy and NO ONE seems to give a sh*t about communicating an update to my LBS. At one point the Campy contact told my guy he forgot about it (they were busy- seriously??)- what gives? If they're not going to stand behind a warranty issue then just tell me!

I'm pretty frustrated because they haven't done any work on it (partly LBS guy's fault because he's not a confronter) and will be shutting down for the holidays soon.

At this point i just want the wheel back and GLADLY pay my LBS to re-lace it even though it's a warranty issue.

Any thoughts? Anyone know someone on the inside I could call?



I would avoid the Cali Campy office altogether. Campy actually have some type of service depot on the east coast (maybe Carolinas?). Last year I had a problem with a rear hub on a Shamal. I had bought them thru Probikekit so I wasn't expecting much support. My shop sent them the wheel, they deemed the hub poorly machined, and within a week or so sent me a brand new pair of shamals. The mechanic at the shop told me this east coast Campag branch is run by a guy who comes from the service end of the industry. Maybe call the Cali office and ask for the contact info.

[SoCal Al]

Got the wheel this afternoon, fingers crossed it stays together!

[vqdriver]

Forgot to bold this part

But while others get blasted for proprietary parts and dismissive cust svc, campy has always gotten a pass.
Too many other companies out there to deal with that for what, for me, was no benefit.

[Burnette]

Pretty much mirrors my experience with campy usa too. This is way back before whatever "restructuring".

Simple repairs cost obscene amounts. Campy wanted me to go thru lbs. Didnt answer or even acknowledge questions from lbs in a timely manner. Blah blah blah.
I left their little insider universe years ago.

I get the old timey euro cred. But while others get blasted for proprietary parts and dismissive cust svc, campy has always gotten a pass.
Too many other companies out there to deal with that for what, for me, was no benefit.

Agree with all of this. The world is flush with so many options. To have to put up with a don't care attitude and poor service is a blight that SRAM and Shimano fight with too but it's a bigger negative for Campy in America because their presence here is so small.

What hurts Campy the most is low OEM sales, which they are working on improving. How they gain customers and the interaction with them has to improve too unless they just want to continue to be a distant number three behind Shimano and SRAM.

[oldpotatoe]

Agree with all of this. The world is flush with so many options. To have to put up with a don't care attitude and poor service is a blight that SRAM and Shimano fight with too but it's a bigger negative for Campy in America because their presence here is so small.

What hurts Campy the most is low OEM sales, which they are working on improving. How they gain customers and the interaction with them has to improve too unless they just want to continue to be a distant number three behind Shimano and SRAM.
This is way back before whatever "restructuring".

I left their little insider universe years ago.
Think his comments are from a while ago. My comments are from experiences as recently as yesterday..an email answer even tho Jerry had left for the holidays and the office was closed. Tom Kattus went to great lengths to help in the customer service area..MUCH better than Storino(previous head)...BUT they are small, like 4 people.

Campag sells all they make. They would like more OE, and I've always thought via 'Fulcrum', cuz it's made where the vast majority of frames are made but it's not really their 'core'. They will never even approach the size of shimano. I doubt they want to be 'just like shimano and sram', anymore than Rolex wants to be 'just like Seiko'..or Ducati wants to be 'just like Honda'...

[Burnette]

Think his comments are from a while ago. My comments are from experiences as recently as yesterday..an email answer even tho Jerry had left for the holidays and the office was closed. Tom Kattus went to great lengths to help in the customer service area..MUCH better than Storino(previous head)...BUT they are small, like 4 people.

Campag sells all they make. They would like more OE, and I've always thought via 'Fulcrum', cuz it's made where the vast majority of frames are made but it's not really their 'core'. They will never even approach the size of shimano. I doubt they want to be 'just like shimano and sram', anymore than Rolex wants to be 'just like Seiko'..or Ducati wants to be 'just like Honda'...

You have often used this analogy with Campy but it's overly romanticizes the situation. They are a business with much skin in the game, they do in fact want to grow. Their own bungling if the market allowed SRAM to rise to second place and make no mistake, as I have posted on in the past, Campy is indeed trying to claw some of that market share back. It's their own words from their own copy.

And no, we have to stop with the Rolex, Ducati nonsense, Shimano and SRAM, even after market brand wheels are equal to or better. And look at how saturated the market is too. A consumer will not go wanting if they pass on any if the big three for that matter. There's an overabundance of good product, you have to be fast, have the best price and take care of the consumer after the sell.

[choke]

You have often used this analogy with Campy but it's overly romanticizes the situation. They are a business with much skin in the game, they do in fact want to grow. Their own bungling if the market allowed SRAM to rise to second place and make no mistake, as I have posted on in the past, Campy is indeed trying to claw some of that market share back. It's their own words from their own copy.I have to agree with Peter. Yes, Campy would like to grow but they don't want to be the size of Shimano or Sram.....if you read the interviews with Valentino that's pretty clear. The fact that they are a family owned company means that they can approach things differently.

And no, we have to stop with the Rolex, Ducati nonsense, Shimano and SRAM, even after market brand wheels are equal to or better.I think the Ducati comparison works. Both Ducati and Campy don't want to be the dominant company, they want to make a high quality product in enough quantity to make a good profit. I agree that the Rolex comparison doesn't work though.....while Rolex isn't Seiko they make a huge number of watches and though the marketing makes people think that a Rolex is rare they really aren't.

[oldpotatoe]

You have often used this analogy with Campy but it's overly romanticizes the situation. They are a business with much skin in the game, they do in fact want to grow. Their own bungling if the market allowed SRAM to rise to second place and make no mistake, as I have posted on in the past, Campy is indeed trying to claw some of that market share back. It's their own words from their own copy.

And no, we have to stop with the Rolex, Ducati nonsense, Shimano and SRAM, even after market brand wheels are equal to or better. And look at how saturated the market is too. A consumer will not go wanting if they pass on any if the big three for that matter. There's an overabundance of good product, you have to be fast, have the best price and take care of the consumer after the sell.

Not sure they want to necessarily grow, perhaps, but on their terms, not on shimano or srams. I think they are pretty content at where they are. Won't see a MTB group from Campagnolo anymore than a mass produced 50cc scooter from Aprilla or an $100 electric watch from Rolex..

'WE' do? Rolex and Ducati are VERY similar to Campagnolo. Premium brands. Not everyday' brands that have 'premium' offerings, like Toyota, Honda.

[Burnette]

Not sure they want to necessarily grow, perhaps, but on their terms, not on shimano or srams. I think they are pretty content at where they are. Won't see a MTB group from Campagnolo anymore than a mass produced 50cc scooter from Aprilla or an $100 electric watch from Rolex..

'WE' do? Rolex and Ducati are VERY similar to Campagnolo. Premium brands. Not everyday' brands that have 'premium' offerings, like Toyota, Honda.

That old romantic view is wrong. Campy is fighting to grow and want to be bigger. They have to for their long term survival. They can't live off of nostalgia. This notion that they want to be just so big is a fallacy, they will take every sale they can get like any business. It's why they are going after OEM sales and why they offer disc brakes. If they don't generate cash they can't innovate, they won't be as agile and big changes will break them if they don't grow. So no, they're not happy with their current spot and are working hard to improve it.

And yes, give up the Rolex analogy because it doesn't ring true. There is as good if not better in the market today, the irony here is that as you purport Campy better and premium while we're in a thread where a Campy wheel broke and the OP got crappy service, lol.

It happens to all and all are the same in that regard too.

[R3awak3n]

Also campy is not Rolex or Ducati. Rolex is the most valuable watch company so that analogy does not even work and Ducati is worth billions more than campy.

I love campy, they have a great product, good tradition, yada yada but the CS was not good to the OP and thats that. If someone came here talking about sram, well 10 pages of what a crappy brand it is. Campy can do no wrong around here, how many have campy license plates here? :rolleyes:

[Burnette]

Also campy is not Rolex or Ducati. Rolex is the most valuable watch company so that analogy does not even work and Ducati is worth billions more than campy.

I love campy, they have a great product, good tradition, yada yada but the CS was not good to the OP and thats that. If someone came here talking about sram, well 10 pages of what a crappy brand it is. Campy can do no wrong around here, how many have campy license plates here? :rolleyes:

^So much this. I'm not beholding to any company, they're business first and foremost. It they do good, say they did good, if they screwed up, admit it and go on. If someone is so in the tank for a brand how can you take their commentary seriously?

And I agree, the Rolex analogy doesn't fly, Campy is a million miles away from being that.

[Big Dan]

Almost got banned for saying I didn't like my Zonda wheels.

:eek:

[Burnette]

Almost got banned for saying I didn't like my Zonda wheels.

:eek:

Thanks for that, I really did lol!

[AngryScientist]

you guys dont get it.

us real campy guys dont ride campy because it works flawlessly and the customer service is good.

we ride it because it has character, personality and a certain sense of romance and adventure.

who do you think would be more fun to date:

-the girl with conservative good lucks, a true sense of responsibility and purpose and steadfast honesty...

or

-the ragingly hot girl who's bat***** crazy, cant hold a job but knows how to party. you cant take her to thanksgiving dinner and she drained your bank account last night, but she'll rock your world in the bedroom....

there is the sensible choice, and then there is what you really want. :)

[R3awak3n]

But campy has lost all that, have you seen 12 speed? Its just another groupset that works well.

I will probably get banned for this but I would take my etap over campy right now. I do like my campy discs, those are great.

Like i said I love campy but I am not getting campy license plates or tattoos anytime soon - I do admire how they were able to get some much brand loyalty though

[Burnette]

:fight:you guys dont get it.

us real campy guys dont ride campy because it works flawlessly and the customer service is good.

we ride it because it has character, personality and a certain sense of romance and adventure.

who do you think would be more fun to date:

-the girl with conservative good lucks, a true sense of responsibility and purpose and steadfast honesty...

or

-the ragingly hot girl who's bat***** crazy, cant hold a job but knows how to party. you cant take her to thanksgiving dinner and she drained your bank account last night, but she'll rock your world in the bedroom....

there is the sensible choice, and then there is what you really want. :)



Ha! I hear ya, but it's an old romantic view. It's bicycle components from a for profit business. IMO Campy functions much the same as the rest and they are just as ugly too in some instances too. The image of the old guy in a corner polishing a hub is quaint but that's not the world as it is today.

For all the talk of bike brands pushing image over substance on consumers and people drinking marketing Koolaid, I have to laugh this Campy narrative as it smacks of Grape, Cherry and Tropical Fruit Punch hype.

The worst thing you could do is cost more, be harder to obtain, have someone tell you it's premium when in reality it's the same as competitors and then have it fail and have to deal with poor service. Campy has the nostalgia crew no matter how bad they do but for people disaffected by their place in the hearts of fans the hype holds no water.

[OtayBW]

Campy has the nostalgia crew no matter how bad they do but for people disaffected by their place in the hearts of fans the hype holds no water.A lot of things don't hold water. I'll grant you that....

[oldpotatoe]

Also campy is not Rolex or Ducati. Rolex is the most valuable watch company so that analogy does not even work and Ducati is worth billions more than campy.

I love campy, they have a great product, good tradition, yada yada but the CS was not good to the OP and thats that. If someone came here talking about sram, well 10 pages of what a crappy brand it is. Campy can do no wrong around here, how many have campy license plates here? :rolleyes:

Me, for one. Most of the ‘crappy’ CS was via the LBS. ya know shimano gives really good CS also. Sram, IME, no.
Campagnolo is not Rolex or Ducati but a premium brand who ‘controls’ ( or tries to) their ‘message’? Yes.

[tuscanyswe]

So have we all agreed campy does not look any better than shim or sram then?

Mohahahahaha its not aprils yet my friends. :fight:

[Burnette]

Me, for one. Most of the ‘crappy’ CS was via the LBS. ya know shimano gives really good CS also. Sram, IME, no.
Campagnolo is not Rolex or Ducati but a premium brand who ‘controls’ ( or tries to) their ‘message’? Yes.

No, they all try to control their message, it's part of the business and no, Campy is no more premium than SRAM or Shimano. They are bicycle component makers with tiered product offerings.

[Burnette]

So have we all agreed campy does not look any better than shim or sram then?

Mohahahahaha its not aprils yet my friends. :fight:

Oof! Campy did join the ugly party and in a big way. That's why I find this old rose colored nostalgic angle so funny, those new Campy cranks and deraileures aren't baubles baby, that's for sure. And they are no more premium than SRAM or Shimano unless you drank the marketing Koolaid. But I don't blame Campy for changing at all. Costs and function have to play an important part in all of it. They can't live if of the poser crowd forever.

[tuscanyswe]

No, they all try to control their message, it's part of the business and no, Campy is no more premium than SRAM or Shimano. They are bicycle component makers with tiered product offerings.

If campy wasent a premium brand would you even be having this discussion?
I thought the point of your argument was that campy should not be a premium brand so why is it? That point is kind of mute if you dont think they are considered a premium brand.

[tuscanyswe]

Oof! Campy did join the ugly party and in a big way. That's why I find this old rose colored nostalgic angle so funny, those new Campy cranks and deraileures aren't baubles baby, that's for sure. And they are no more premium than SRAM or Shimano unless you drank the marketing Koolaid. But I don't blame Campy for changing at all. Costs and function have to play an important part in all of it. They can't live if of the poser crowd forever.

Ill give you that the 12speed group is not up to par (imo) but one does not fall every time one stumbles .)

[Burnette]

Ill give you that the 12speed group is not up to par (imo) but one does not fall every time one stumbles .)

Oh, Campy is in good ugly company with its latest stuff. I know it's hard for the faithful to read but Campy has already become more like the big two in product offerings. They are following, not leading and again, I don't blame them one bit, they have to sell product just like the rest.

[Burnette]

If campy wasent a premium brand would you even be having this discussion?
I thought the point of your argument was that campy should not be a premium brand so why is it? That point is kind of mute if you dont think they are considered a premium brand.

I would have the discussion regardless of image, good or bad.

My point was never, ever that Campy should or should not be a premium brand.

The reality of the situation is that while some ply the company line we all know that what others offer is the same if not better.

Again, as much as some purport how consumers are defrauded by company hype there us an eager willingness to drink it here.

[Calnago]

Sorry, I just stopped in for a visit and came across this thread. Read it from beginning to end to make sure I got everything in context. Couple of things popped right out:
1) Campy makes license plates? Where can I get one?... and
2) For the best toast ever... I know it’s not part of the thread but I thought I should at least contribute in a positive meaningful way...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181222/c8b584e8d390b35ff68aced8a4928e3f.jpg

[Burnette]

Sorry, I just stopped in for a visit and came across this thread. Read it from beginning to end to make sure I got everything in context. Couple of things popped right out:
1) Campy makes license plates? Where can I get one?... and
2) For the best toast ever... I know it’s not part of the thread but I thought I should at least contribute in a positive meaningful way...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181222/c8b584e8d390b35ff68aced8a4928e3f.jpg

1. To receive a Campy liscense plate you must provide verification of a Campy tramp stamp

2. I love bread and would try that loaf. Is it premium?

Thanks for photo (good find!) and the humor, it can be a tough crowd sometimes.

[Calnago]

I don’t have a tramp stamp, but why should my dating life be brought into this discussion. This is proudly displayed on my fridge however...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181222/8d0e9b54144c567c9fedea9aa0f54462.jpg
As for the bread, you wouldn’t like it, I can just tell. [emoji4]

[m4rk540]

Oof! Campy did join the ugly party and in a big way. That's why I find this old rose colored nostalgic angle so funny, those new Campy cranks and deraileures aren't baubles baby, that's for sure. And they are no more premium than SRAM or Shimano unless you drank the marketing Koolaid. But I don't blame Campy for changing at all. Costs and function have to play an important part in all of it. They can't live if of the poser crowd forever.

You keep talking about Koolaid. Two things? What's Kool-Aid and do you know any cycling enthusiasts under 30?

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=204291

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=198585

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=205321

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=224594

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=170218

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=141151

[Burnette]

You keep talking about Koolaid. Two things? What's Kool-Aid and do you know any cycling enthusiasts under 30?

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=204291

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=198585

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=205321

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=224594

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=170218

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=141151

All that work and no point made. Shame.

[m4rk540]

All that work and no point made. Shame.

Search is my friend. I now know what Kool-Aid is!

Burnette, you have an interesting take on growth. Should Lightweight try to become ZIPP and are they the same type of organization because they both manufacture bicycle wheels?

[Burnette]

I don’t have a tramp stamp, but why should my dating life be brought into this discussion. This is proudly displayed on my fridge however...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181222/8d0e9b54144c567c9fedea9aa0f54462.jpg
As for the bread, you wouldn’t like it, I can just tell. [emoji4]

If the bread was good, I would say so. If a slice had mold and I was given the business trying to remedy the situation, I would report so too, Ha!

I actually like reading enthusiasm for bike stuff, it gets emotional for some but you have kept you humor, which I enjoy and appreciate. Contrary to what some believe from my posts, I like some Campy stuff. I wouldn't marry it, but I would but it.

[Calnago]

Get off my lawn! Lol

[Burnette]

Search is my friend. I now know what Kool-Aid is!

Burnette, you have an interesting take on growth. Should Lightweight try to become ZIPP and are they the same type of organization because they both manufacture bicycle wheels?

I'm sure you are familiar with Koolaid and your wheel comparisons are faulty.

[Burnette]

Get off my lawn! Lol

I know right? I got some clouds to go yell at!

[ntb1001]

All of this Campagnolo discussion made me think of this restaurant in Toronto...

Must be an amazing restaurant

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181222/df2f42be3d70e28de919943401b37a05.jpg






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Calnago]

Wow! Had I known of that restaurant I’d have just gone there instead of buying the bread. I hate cooking.

[m4rk540]

I'm sure you are familiar with Koolaid and your wheel comparisons are faulty.

They are not.

[choke]

A lot of things don't hold water. I'll grant you that....To set the record straight.....the quote this is in response to is attributed to me but was actually said by Burnette.

Oof! Campy did join the ugly party and in a big way. I actually agree with you on this point. I've said it before but I will probably never purchase another new group in my life....unless Campy goes back to making components in silver alloy that look good. But I'm OK with that, I have enough to get by with.

[dancinkozmo]

All of this Campagnolo discussion made me think of this restaurant in Toronto...

Must be an amazing restaurant

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181222/df2f42be3d70e28de919943401b37a05.jpg






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

been there...
they are understaffed and
the service is not very good

the newer additions to the menu looked awful, but the old classic items looked amazing

the clientele and staff were very pretentious

two thumbs up , all in all, an authentic campagnolo experience !

[OtayBW]

To set the record straight.....the quote this is in response to is attributed to me but was actually said by Burnette.Yes, I see that now. Not sure what happened, but it was to be attributed to Burnette (Post #37) as you indicated. Sorry about that.

[Burnette]

All of this Campagnolo discussion made me think of this restaurant in Toronto...

Must be an amazing restaurant

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181222/df2f42be3d70e28de919943401b37a05.jpg






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yelp says the service is terrible. Name checks out

[Burnette]

To set the record straight.....the quote this is in response to is attributed to me but was actually said by Burnette.

I actually agree with you on this point. I've said it before but I will probably never purchase another new group in my life....unless Campy goes back to making components in silver alloy that look good. But I'm OK with that, I have enough to get by with.

I have quite a few log catalogs from the nineties and I agree Shimano and Campy looked great in silver alloy. I get the admiration for those components, they added to the look of the bikes back then. I save pics of bikes I like and more than a few are from that period.

Campy's new stuff, like SRAM's and Shinano's, doesn't have that same character. That's what some of these fans here seem to miss, Campy's black blobs look as horrid as everybody else's. And performs about the same, there's less distinction once you get past the shifters to really matter.

[OtayBW]

^^ Not sure what you're looking at, but it looks to me like pretty great customer comments across the board for this place in near 200 reviews (https://www.yelp.com/biz/campagnolo-toronto). Think I'll just go with that....

[Burnette]

^^ Not sure what you're looking at, but it looks to me like pretty great customer comments across the board for this place in near 200 reviews (https://www.yelp.com/biz/campagnolo-toronto). Think I'll just go with that....

Oh, it was just a joke, OP got bad service, Campagnolo restuarant... you had to be there.

[OtayBW]

Oh, it was just a joke, OP got bad service, Campagnolo restuarant... you had to be there.No kidding?...[emoji849]

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[AngryScientist]

Campy's black blobs look as horrid

this whole thread has gone totally OT at this point, but IMO, campy's new 12-sp stuff looks excellent to me.

i really like it and i'll be happy to get my hands on a mechanical groupset when i'm ready to buy.

too much overall negativity in this thread.

[thegunner]

too much overall negativity in this thread.

pot, meet kettle.

i don't recall seeing this commentary when people trash sram :p just saying #unabashedetapfanboy

[oldpotatoe]

you guys dont get it.

us real campy guys dont ride campy because it works flawlessly and the customer service is good.

we ride it because it has character, personality and a certain sense of romance and adventure.

who do you think would be more fun to date:

-the girl with conservative good lucks, a true sense of responsibility and purpose and steadfast honesty...

or

-the ragingly hot girl who's bat***** crazy, cant hold a job but knows how to party. you cant take her to thanksgiving dinner and she drained your bank account last night, but she'll rock your world in the bedroom....

there is the sensible choice, and then there is what you really want. :)

POY

Post Of Yesterday..yup, those 's' guys just don't get it..I'd like to see an shimano or sram tattoo please...yup, didn't think so.:)

[oldpotatoe]

But campy has lost all that, have you seen 12 speed? Its just another groupset that works well.

I will probably get banned for this but I would take my etap over campy right now. I do like my campy discs, those are great.

Like i said I love campy but I am not getting campy license plates or tattoos anytime soon - I do admire how they were able to get some much brand loyalty though

See my post..so you like 'S', groovy...lots like Toyota, Seiko, Suzukiyamahakawasakihonda too...it's all good but using that stuff takes all the moisture outta yer mouth..no heart, no soul, just 'tools'... :)

[oldpotatoe]

^^ Not sure what you're looking at, but it looks to me like pretty great customer comments across the board for this place in near 200 reviews (https://www.yelp.com/biz/campagnolo-toronto). Think I'll just go with that....

It's how to 'tell your story' with statistics..how to 'win' an 'argument' on a bike forum. It's all good..Those who go through life w/o any emotional attachment, no sense of loyalty to something as mundane a a 'bike thing'..hardly anybody understands why I got a Campagnolo tattoo..it actually my 3rd Campagnolo one..2 on my ankles, one memorializing Tullios death(RIP Signore rispettato)..but some don't get it..not really concerned..I am very comfy with my point of view..Ya know a lot of people would think the same of Italy, crumbling, disorganized, lazy..and ignore their contribution to
-cars..
-Vino
-fashion
-Bicycles
-General 'style'

Not gonna see that in Japan(I lived there for 3 years)...they sure try to emulate Italian/European style tho..no doubt.

:)

[thegunner]

Not gonna see that in Japan(I lived there for 3 years)...they sure try to emulate Italian/European style tho..no doubt.

:)

uh... seriously?

[Burnette]

It's how to 'tell your story' with statistics..how to 'win' an 'argument' on a bike forum. It's all good..Those who go through life w/o any emotional attachment, no sense of loyalty to something as mundane a a 'bike thing'..hardly anybody understands why I got a Campagnolo tattoo..it actually my 3rd Campagnolo one..2 on my ankles, one memorializing Tullios death(RIP Signore rispettato)..but some don't get it..not really concerned..I am very comfy with my point of view..Ya know a lot of people would think the same of Italy, crumbling, disorganized, lazy..and ignore their contribution to
-cars..
-Vino
-fashion
-Bicycles
-General 'style'

Not gonna see that in Japan(I lived there for 3 years)...they sure try to emulate Italian/European style tho..no doubt.

:)
Through work I have traveled some and just last week we had two gentlemen from Japan set up a million dollars worth of equipment. In business, much like life, who's best, who's leading or following is dynamic, it changes.

The thread is about Campy quality and I guess you would be surprised that Campy, like many companies, follows Japan's quality techniques.

As I posted before I like the enthusiasm for all things bike. But when something goes wrong or is bad, one should have the capacity to acknowledge it. Campy isn't perfect, nor is any brand, they made missteps, make in many people's opinion just as ugly componentry as the rest now and indeed their US service could use work.

Being a fan is great. Me and others here in this thread too are passionate about stuff. It's wrong to label people as not just because they don't dig the same sauce. For me it's watches, racing, football, cars... but it's never to the point where I can't call out something when it's bad, wrong or something happened, even if I like it a lot.

I agree with others, in this thread if you took out Campy and put in SRAM or Shimano it would go twenty pages. And for me, if SRAM or Shimano does misstep, I will say so, they are bicycle component makers, I like them all, love nine and can talk freely about all. Yiu can be a fan and still have that capacity if you think about it.

[oldpotatoe]

uh... seriously?

Like I said, I lived there. The Japanese love to emulate others..Americans(see below), the Europeans...yes, you see men and women wearing traditional garb but not the 'style', all their own, like the Italianos..IMHO. Even 'grunge'...

[thegunner]

Like I said, I lived there. The Japanese love to emulate others..Americans(see below), the Europeans...yes, you see men and women wearing traditional garb but not the 'style', all their own, like the Italianos..IMHO.

that's a microcosm of japanese culture, and i think it's rather shortsighted to imply that they lack a distinct sense of general style. it's actually insulting.

[oldpotatoe]

that's a microcosm of japanese culture, and i think it's rather shortsighted to imply that they lack a distinct sense of general style. it's actually insulting.

After WW2, 'Japanese style' was heavily discouraged and that 'idea', passed through generations', still exists. NOT meant to be insulting, just observations.

Included in that is a general distrust of the military, even today, and particularly the US military..I've seen that first hand..

When did you live in Japan? Granted, I was there in the early 80s...Yokosuka onboard USS Midway. Nov 1980-June 1983

[thegunner]

After WW2, 'Japanese style' was heavily discouraged and that 'idea', passed through generations', still exists. NOT meant to be insulting, just observations.

Included in that is a general distrust of the military, even today, and particularly the US military..I've seen that first hand..

When did you live in Japan? Granted, I was there in the early 80s...Yokosuka onboard USS Midway. Nov 1980-June 1983

for the better part of a year in 2013 and repeated visits since 2015 (which i don't see as particularly relevant aside from trying to prove a point that you've lived there longer).

you literally posted that you wouldn't find contributions to a bunch of things while glossing over areas that are quintessentially japanese - japanese theatre has no european roots, japanese sake has no european roots, japanese tea ceremonies, most things popular during the meiji era were specifically adopted with an explicit goal to step forwards technologically while being distinctly japanese.

even from an architectural standpoint, most of japan looks nothing like europe or america, so i struggle to see how you can say that most of japan is a carbon copy of the west.

[oldpotatoe]

for the better part of a year in 2013 and repeated visits since 2015 (which i don't see as particularly relevant aside from trying to prove a point that you've lived there longer).

you literally posted that you wouldn't find contributions to a bunch of things while glossing over areas that are quintessentially japanese - japanese theatre has no european roots, japanese sake has no european roots, japanese tea ceremonies, most things popular during the meiji era were specifically adopted with an explicit goal to step forwards technologically while being distinctly japanese.

even from an architectural standpoint, most of japan looks nothing like europe or america, so i struggle to see how you can say that most of japan is a carbon copy of the west.

Sorry Gunner, that wasn't my point at all..As a matter of fact, the first 365 days I was 'in Japan', I was actually either onboard Midway-maru at sea or deployed to Korea 287 of those. Not trying to 'measure' anything.

Didn't say that at all..I'm tapping out..Not trying to piss anybody off.

As an aside, the number 2 largest market for Campagnolo 'stuff'?...let you guess(it isn't the US)..

[dancinkozmo]

well...opinions may vary on campy, shimano, sram the italians, the japaneae etc.
but im sure that theres one thing we can all agree on, the french and french bike components really suck.

merry xmas !

[Ralph]

I've never said my Campagnolo parts, which are getting old now, are better than equivalent Shimano parts. I just like them better. The liking goes way back....hard to explain.

[Jef58]

As an aside, the number 2 largest market for Campagnolo 'stuff'?...let you guess(it isn't the US)..

As a long time Campagnolo user, I find this discussion comical. I use the components because they work well and I prefer the way the shifters fit my hands. I don't care if they aren't shiny aluminum anymore, they probably would be out of business if they still were. They are in the business of making road bike racing components...which they do very well. I respect the company model of sticking with a small operation but with that comes the occasional issue of exemplary customer service. Though their wheels have a good track record that speaks for itself, they or the distributor should have replaced the wheel after all this. I have 4 sets of Campy wheels ranging from late 1990's to present and never had to touch any of them (other than minimal at best service), so this to them, should be one they need to get back to see what the issue is. Good luck with the resolution and hope it works out. Campagnolo is still a great product and is needed in the cycling community as much as people hate to admit it.

[Burnette]

As a long time Campagnolo user, I find this discussion comical. I use the components because they work well and I prefer the way the shifters fit my hands. I don't care if they aren't shiny aluminum anymore, they probably would be out of business if they still were. They are in the business of making road bike racing components...which they do very well. I respect the company model of sticking with a small operation but with that comes the occasional issue of exemplary customer service. Though their wheels have a good track record that speaks for itself, they or the distributor should have replaced the wheel after all this. I have 4 sets of Campy wheels ranging from late 1990's to present and never had to touch any of them (other than minimal at best service), so this to them, should be one they need to get back to see what the issue is. Good luck with the resolution and hope it works out. Campagnolo is still a great product and is needed in the cycling community as much as people hate to admit it.

Thank you for showing you can like a company and be able to discern where they could be better.

And I agree that we are all better off to have Campy in the game. Shimano needs a high end competitor to push them to innovate and watch costs. The rise if SRAM was good for us too, it provoked quicker to market times with products from Shimano as they had to respond to SRAM.

What was lost in this thread was that the OP had a bad wheel and the process to remedy the situation was botched by Campy representatives. I agree he should have gotten replacements if not quicker repair.

Again, thank you for your measured post, we could use more of that.

[R3awak3n]

well...opinions may vary on campy, shimano, sram the italians, the japaneae etc.
but im sure that theres one thing we can all agree on, the french and french bike components really suck.

merry xmas !

you are probably kidding but there are a ton of cool french components and imho french rando bikes are amongst the best looking bikes out there. The constructeurs really knew what they were doing.

[dancinkozmo]

^as the french are so fond of saying at this time of year...

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--rDt_UBsn--/t_Resized%20Artwork/c_fit,g_north_west,h_1054,w_1054/co_ffffff,e_outline:53/co_ffffff,e_outline:inner_fill:53/co_bbbbbb,e_outline:3:1000/c_mpad,g_center,h_1260,w_1260/b_rgb:eeeeee/c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1510152800/production/designs/2036069_1.jpg

[bitpuddle]

2) For the best toast ever... I know it’s not part of the thread but I thought I should at least contribute in a positive meaningful way...

794g? You could do better.