It's time to end PSAs in the PACELINE classifieds

[pdmtong]

It's time to end PSAs in the PACELINE classifieds.

Our classifieds are for member-member transactions. Period.

Yes, Charles got a little crazy early today. But this comment is for all PSAs from anyone. Some of you posting PSAs think you are doing forum members a service. I disagree. The classifieds are not meant to be an index of eBay or Craigslist or PinkBike etc. It doesn't matter if the PSA frame is something I am or am not interested in. I can do my own searching myself, thank you. Don't clutter the classifieds with frames YOU think are interesting at the expense of pushing ads from forum members further down or off the page.

Some of you here have benefited from PSAs. IMHO those were opportunistic purchases. If no one mentioned that frame/bike, you would not have known about it or bought it. If you really wanted that frame, you could have been doing your own ongoing search and find. Your benefit is irrelevant to the contention that classifieds should be for member-member transactions.

I get that the number of PSA ebbs and flows. It's time to end them, whether 12/day or one/month.

Paceline classifieds are for Paceline member transactions.

[Luwabra]

Is this a psa?

[dustyrider]

Your post in the classifieds suggests psa’s aren’t really clogging things up that much, right? :banana:

Keep them coming Charles, I love what you find!

[andeww]

why not a PSA STICKY at the top where they can all be posted?

[Heisenberg]

Completely agree.

This is 2018. There are plenty of tools available to scour the internet for whatever random handbuilt oddity your heart may desire. I come to the PL classifieds to buy within the community, not to peep a random 15 year-old Serotta in East Lansing, Michigan. Seeing the listings cluttered by well-meaning PSAs is annoying and detracts from why the classifieds are here.

Creating a separate forum would be wise. Or just learning to use any one of the CL meta-searchers available with Google alerts.

[joosttx]

Here here. This is more important than the like button

[YoKev]

I posted a PSA once, and it ended up being a stolen bike.

It was successfully reunited with the owner because of this forum.

[mtechnica]

I like the PSAs

[kppolich]

I would like to see the Marketplace split up into 3-4 sections

For Sale:
Wanted to buy:
PSA:
Vendor:

[s4life]

Hmm.. I can skip through PSAs faster than using internet tools to find good bikes.. I would have probably never found the Kirk on ebay if Dan didn't post it as a PSA. Conflicted on this one.

[sfghbiker]

I like the PSAs

[idrinkwater]

I see the point but to play devil's advocate; trolling pl for anything (member to member or PSA) is a pretty inefficient and inherently opportunistic way to bike bikes and bike stuff. If you want something NOW, your lbs, ebay, Pinkbike, etc are better. 75% of the time I've used the pl classified search, the thing I'm looking for has been sold and the seller never updated the ad. I like the luck of the draw nature here.

[PaMtbRider]

Totally agree. If we must have them make a separate forum. I really wish they would just go away.

[xnetter]

I like the PSAs. I don't spend all day trawling every internet buy/sell channel, so getting tall-bike leads from others is appreciated.

I also like to idea of separating them into sub-category or sticky, as deference to forum member ads. Seems like an easy fix.

KJ

[jtbadge]

+1 for consolidating into a sticky thread.

[temeyone]

PSAs are great, but maybe self-limiting to actual really good deals rather than just general PSA fodder would be a good move

[d_douglas]

agreed - I don't like PSA's until a great deal or an amazing bike unveils itself - then I think they're great.

I've posted a half dozen, two of which have ended up in the hands of Paceliners - I think they're happy about this?

[sheh8me2]

Totally agree. The PSAs are clutter.

[tylercheung]

Why don't we just give Charles his own thread? I find value in his unique taste, curation, and uncanny nose to sniff these things out.

[Vonruden]

I’m in favor of keeping....just my 2 pennies

[bjf]

+1 for a sticky or a separate section.

[OtayBW]

I think today's PSA contribution was kind of over the top - kind of obnoxious, actually. At that level, it really diminishes the signal:noise level around here. But I neither have any real heartburn about PSAs under the more 'normal level' that we've been seeing, nor would I object to a separate section. I do find it pretty comical, however, that someone would presume to suggest how anyone should conduct their searches for a frame/bike, and whether that should be opportunistic or direct search and find.

[pdmtong]

I think today's PSA contribution was kind of over the top - kind of obnoxious, actually. At that level, it really diminishes the signal:noise level around here.

But I neither have any real heartburn about PSAs under the more 'normal level' that we've been seeing, nor would I object to a separate section.


I do find it pretty comical, however, that someone would presume to suggest how anyone should conduct their searches for a frame/bike, and whether that should be opportunistic or direct search and find.

1) Seeing a majority page of PSA I thought enough of this

2) sticky or separate, that would work.

3) Agreed completely - a few of my bikes I thought about, searched for and found. A few others were whoa, thats cool, I should buy that. My point here is I think the forum classifieds should be for member-member transactions; the idea that members posting PSAs making other members happy is irrelevant.

[cpsqlrwn]

why not a PSA STICKY at the top where they can all be posted?

^^^ This

[John H.]

Or just make a single PSA thread- PSA posters and lookers can go to that thread and wade through it-

[cpsqlrwn]

PSAs are great, but maybe self-limiting to actual really good deals rather than just general PSA fodder would be a good move

Seriously, you want to leave this to the judgment of the individual poster? You want the inmates to run the asylum?

[dancinkozmo]

love the PSA's
keep on truckin' charles !

[parris]

I also like the psa's... Especially the ones that Charles finds and shares!

[daker13]

First reaction: what is Paul talking about
Reaction after looking at classifieds: Wow that is a lot of PSA's...

[adub]

PSA Wars!

Could be the next big show on A&E?!

Dudes rush out to buy the great deals, then re-list on Paceline forum. Whomever makes the most profit wins.

[RobJ]

I would like to see the Marketplace split up into 3-4 sections

For Sale:
Wanted to buy:
PSA:
Vendor:



Definitely the cleanest and most organized method. I would support this.


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[sokyroadie]

I like PSA's :banana::banana:
Charles is unique and a treasure.

[Louis]

Hmmm - and about all those OT threads in "General Discussion" ...

[Llewellyn]

I would like to see the Marketplace split up into 3-4 sections

For Sale:
Wanted to buy:
PSA:
Vendor:

This is the best idea.

[jtbadge]

A separate forum would still leave the "New Posts" view clogged.

[johnniecakes]

How about you only post a PSA if you are willing to facilitate? Otherwise they are just clutter

[R3awak3n]

Definitely the cleanest and most organized method. I would support this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yes. this 100%.

also Charles is the man. So lets five him his subforum and this way it will make everyone happy.

[HenryA]

I would urge anyone who’s life and identity is wrapped up in the goings-on in the Classifieds section to get outside and ride your bike. Remember, you can only ride one at a time.

And if you think you are getting beat out because someone lets the world know about a bike you want, please remember - this is the internet.

And finally, if you don’t think you will enjoy what’s at a link posted here, don’t click it. Really just don’t.

:fight:

[joosttx]

I would like to see the Marketplace split up into 3-4 sections

For Sale:
Wanted to buy:
PSA:
Vendor:

kppolich for the win

[Louis]

And finally, if you don’t think you will enjoy what’s at a link posted here, don’t click it. Really just don’t.

:fight:

But I want the Internets to show only the stuff I'm interested in, nothing else! :mad:

[pobrien]

I like the PSAs that Charles and others post. They are easy to skip if you are not interested.

I feel like this concern is because a merchant is feeling a sense of competition. Competition is good for the market, if there was any competition.

[Clean39T]

Words.

[Burnette]

I would urge anyone who’s life and identity is wrapped up in the goings-on in the Classifieds section to get outside and ride your bike. Remember, you can only ride one at a time.

And if you think you are getting beat out because someone lets the world know about a bike you want, please remember - this is the internet.

And finally, if you don’t think you will enjoy what’s at a link posted here, don’t click it. Really just don’t.

:fight:


All of your points are spot on and here we go again with trying to change Paceline as if something is really wrong. And we went through this same argument not too long ago! Almanac is calling for a roughl winter. This thread confirms it.

[wallymann]

I think PSAs are fine, in moderation. no need for separate sub-forums...I think cnighnor got the message.

however, I could live with the 4 sub-forums... even though I think it's unneeded and ridiculous complexity.

[saab2000]

Have a sub-forum or ban them. They’re annoying and not at all in the spirit of the classifieds.

It’s easy to put something up for sale and have it on page 3 within a day. Not a fan of a dozen “bumps” either. There’s an auction site out there for stuff that won’t sell. Price it at a buck and it’ll sell.

[kppolich]

kppolich for the win

Another nice feature of a Marketplace forum that I visit all too often is the MacRumors.com forum. They have the For Sale section split up nicely. I'd see it working here along the lines of.

FS: Complete Bikes
FS: Parts
FS: Clothes
FS: Other

But I don't know how many admins we have and/or the added time/cost that is associated with something like that. They also have a nice feature where you can edit thread title's from a dropdown of Feeler, WTB, For Sale, Sold, Ended, Etc.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4842/44890842535_6e3800636c_z.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4911/30864175637_26a409dd73_b.jpg

[Dougb]

I chuckled at a PSA the other day here from a member as it was something they were selling!

I like the idea of one thread for PSAs. That works for me over in the classic and vintage area at bikeforums.

The endless bumps do get annoying.

[wildboar]

posting this here before you guys shut it all down:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Eddy-Merckx-Trekking-55-x-56-cm-Columbus-XT-737-Dura-Ace-Campagnolo-EXC/123458285048?hash=item1cbeafedf8:g:MssAAOSwLXNbsJh j:rk:9:pf:0

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/MssAAOSwLXNbsJhj/s-l1600.jpg

[elong8]

I think PSA’s are ok, but there’s at least one member who overdoes it imho. It’s annoying and this isn’t the only forum I’ve seen it overdone. I do believe it’s well intentioned. Probably. I dunno. Glad I’m not the one who has to make the decisions.

I second the proposal to add a sticky for PSA’s just like the large bike version. That solves the problem.


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[FlashUNC]

Charles really just needs to start a listserv for anyone interested in his deal scouting emails.

Calling it Classifieds if half the front page is PSAs is inaccurate. It's more the Town Crier forum at that point. But that's in keeping with the trendline on the Classifieds here anyways.

[HenryA]

Have a sub-forum or ban them. They’re annoying and not at all in the spirit of the classifieds.

It’s easy to put something up for sale and have it on page 3 within a day. Not a fan of a dozen “bumps” either. There’s an auction site out there for stuff that won’t sell. Price it at a buck and it’ll sell.

The hell of it is that if you just get a nice bike with nice parts, all that’s left to do is to ride it. Or even just a decent bike with decent parts. No need to waste your life looking for the next score. No need to obsess about finding the magic part or frame that transforms your life forever.

I’ve got boxes of bike stuff. If getting stuff trips your trigger post up and I will send you a bunch of stuff for shipping. Or as George Carlin said “your ****”. It’ll be your ****.

Is the spirit of the classifieds to find just one more hit?

I’ll admit that I do from time to time search for a 59 square Legend Ti frame and even imagine that it’ll be cheap and perfect like brand new in my preferred paint scheme, but when I don’t find it I’m not mad because its not there.

Being aggravated by the classifieds is just such a first world problem.

[morrisericd]

A PSA led me to the Argonaut across the hall which is now on it's way to my house! Long live the PSA's!

Seriously, if you don't like it - don't click it.

[kophinos]

I like the PSAs as well. Admittedly there were quite a number spammed today, but that was a rare occurrence. Keep the PSAs!

[Clean39T]

A PSA led me to the Argonaut across the hall which is now on it's way to my house! Long live the PSA's!

Seriously, if you don't like it - don't click it.From the Radavist? Nice score! Was wondering who got that...

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[Clean39T]

I’ll admit that I do from time to time search for a 59 square Legend Ti frame and even imagine that it’ll be cheap and perfect like brand new in my preferred paint scheme, but when I don’t find it I’m not mad because its not there.

Two peas in a pod we are...



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[FlashUNC]

The hell of it is that if you just get a nice bike with nice parts, all that’s left to do is to ride it. Or even just a decent bike with decent parts. No need to waste your life looking for the next score. No need to obsess about finding the magic part or frame that transforms your life forever.

I’ve got boxes of bike stuff. If getting stuff trips your trigger post up and I will send you a bunch of stuff for shipping. Or as George Carlin said “your ****”. It’ll be your ****.

Is the spirit of the classifieds to find just one more hit?

I’ll admit that I do from time to time search for a 59 square Legend Ti frame and even imagine that it’ll be cheap and perfect like brand new in my preferred paint scheme, but when I don’t find it I’m not mad because its not there.

Being aggravated by the classifieds is just such a first world problem.

That's a lot of projection about what I'm sure is a wide range of Classifieds use cases.

But this place has always sucked at curation.

[saab2000]

I've been offloading a lot of stuff on the auction site lately because I don't wish to deal with the dumb stuff that goes on here. I list it there and whatever happens, happens. If it doesn't sell I lower the price. In a lot of cases I'm sure I would have gotten a ton of comments on the items but mostly I want them gone. Trying to downsize my collection in a meaningful manner and it's not helpful with a ton of commentary or other public service announcements getting in the way. So onto the 'Bay they go. No skin off my back but I'd sort of like to get these parts, some of them kind of exotic and even legitimately 'rare' to a buyer here who might really like it.

Anyway, hardly worth a lot of effort. The stuff goes on eBay and I ship it and forget it. I'm glad I enjoyed it while I had it and when it's gone I barely remember it and I'm hopeful someone else will enjoy it as much as I have.

[Spaghetti Legs]

I like them because it will often start a discussion on a cool bike. That’s what this site is about.

[Tony T]

PSA: This thread should be in Classifieds

[earlfoss]

keep the psa
all the way
they are great
stop the hate

[bshell]

Do it right. A fifth category called "Feelers". Those are the best.

[Louis]

Do it right. A fifth category called "Feelers". Those are the best.

As long as we don't call it "Feelers," but what it really should be, which is "Stuff I Have That I Might Sell, If You Pay a Stupid High Price."

[oliver1850]

I've purchased a couple of frames that were posted as PSAs here, and several PSA items that I've posted have sold to forum members. I like the PSAs because they often make me aware of things I wouldn't know about otherwise. There is no way practical way to search all the available selling venues - even for things one has an interest in. It's great that we have people that are knowledgeable enough to link interesting bike stuff that they have seen listed, especially when it's a good deal.

I'm fine with having PSAs in a separate section. Feel the same way about WTBs - not to say I mind seeing them, just that I would be happy to go to another section to post/view them.

[bironi]

Go clean your drivetrain.
Do this everyday until spring has sprung.

[Dino Suegiù]

The PSAs do not bother me, but I would not care if they were gone, either.

But really on a cycling website I rather have PSAs about bicycles (which is why I am reading here in the first place, also maybe to learn something new which I have sometimes) in the Classifieds section than to have threads about coffee machines, music speakers, cars, watches, etc. in the General Discussion section.

Or, if there would be a PSA sub-section (good idea) in the Classifieds then why not also a true OT sub-section in the General Discussion area, below the main page?

Half of the OT topics are no longer even labelled "OT:..." in the titles, and there is even a PSA in GD about an R&A sale. As it is, it is making less and less sense, and more and more chaos.

[charliedid]

Here here. This is more important than the like button

Like

[ckamp]

Seems like a localized member/postings issue. PSAs have never been a big deal in the past.

Just talk to the member in a PM.. the issue would of been resolved without starting a thread. :)




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[the bottle ride]

There are too many- and frankly so many of them are crap:

End the PSA (unless it is a 54, and made of titanium)

[Heisenberg]

There are too many- and frankly so many of them are crap:

End the PSA (unless it is a 54, and made of titanium)

Dis.

It’s cool that someone found a CL aggregator with keywords, but tl;dr? Let us curate like sensible adults.

I had google when I was 12. Get with it. ������������������

[bicycletricycle]

PSA listings are ok , Charles goes overboard, perhaps he can just have his own PSS thread he updates. I got a serotta I liked a lot from a PSA.

[choke]

I am in favor of PSAs....keep 'em coming.

If you don't care about PSAs, don't open a PSA thread.

[Devotion]

I am on another forum that has a SINGLE thread for eBay/CL finds that functions the same way as all of these PSA threads.
I don't see why that wouldn't work here.
How about THE PSA Thread as a "Catchall" for outing sales found elsewhere?
No clutter or excess noise...Folks where know where to post them, folks will know where to find them.

[m_sasso]

Why is this such a recurring topic, seems to come up almost monthly?

If I was a moderator I would be really tired of hearing about this every month from some unhappy members.

Thanks, moderators for putting up with the vocal minority.

I value the PSA's and once again vote to keep them where they are just like the last time this came up last month!

[pakora]

I don't care either way about PSAs except the Big Bike PSAs, in which case I think they're great (though I hate that they make me want things I don't actually need). I get why they're pretty much the same thing. It's fine though.

I find WTBs way more disruptive and annoying. I get why they're pretty much the same thing. It's fine though.

[alancw3]

i like PSA's. i actually look forward to see if any big bike psa posts. we have discussed this topic before and the general consensus was determined that they are a good thing for the forum. i think it is a case of a few selfish individuals that don't want the availability of a bike known so they can perhaps steal it. shame on them.

[enr1co]

Another vote for them in a sticky.

[Elefantino]

Big bike PSA has been my N+1 well of good bikeage.

[54ny77]

If the PSA level is 4.0 b/hr (that's bikes per hour), seek medical attention immediately.

https://youtu.be/9-zf2UBp7fY

[weisan]

In case the people who advocated to end PSAs get their way, I want to take the opportunity to thank the pals once again who have alerted me to some of my best bike buys over the last 5-6 years. If not for the PSAs, it would have taken me much longer to reach my goals and dreams.

1) Richard Sachs - thank you Paredown pal

http://alicehui.com/bike/RS/IMG_7160.jpg

2) Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra - thank you texbike pal

http://alicehui.com/bike/CorsaExtra/P1060169_r.JPG

3) Rivendell Road Standard - thank you temeyone pal

http://alicehui.com/bike/rivendell/11.jpg

4) Eddy Merckx MXL - thank you leegf pal

http://alicehui.com/bike/mxl/complete.jpg

5) Merlin Ti Cyclocross - thank you Exonerv pal

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697950688&stc=1&d=1512601937

6) Cervelo R3 - thank you vqdriver pal

http://alicehui.com/bike/misc/IMG_8464.jpg

Last but not least...

7) J.P. Weigle - thank you tourmalet Pal

http://alicehui.com/bike/Weigle/IMG_4134.JPG

[YoKev]

This PSA match made possible by the OG and Public Enemy #1 (;)) cnighbor1

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1948/45571367492_0184f617ca_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2cqZaSC)

[oldpotatoe]

I would urge anyone who’s life and identity is wrapped up in the goings-on in the Classifieds section to get outside and ride your bike. Remember, you can only ride one at a time.

And if you think you are getting beat out because someone lets the world know about a bike you want, please remember - this is the internet.

And finally, if you don’t think you will enjoy what’s at a link posted here, don’t click it. Really just don’t.

:fight:

What he said...it's a toy store, a bike forum..:)

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE=weisan;2452883]In case the people who advocated to end PSAs get their way, I want to take the opportunity to thank the pals once again who have alerted me to some of my best bike buys over the last 5-6 years. If not for the PSAs, it would have taken me much longer to reach my goals and dreams.

1) Richard Sachs - thank you Paredown pal

http://alicehui.com/bike/RS/IMG_7160.jpg

Geez..water yer grass....:cool:

[Burnette]

This PSA match made possible by the OG and Public Enemy #1 (;)) cnighbor1

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1948/45571367492_0184f617ca_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2cqZaSC)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2cqZaSC) by Kevin Young (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93993596@N04/), on Flickr

That is an awesome looking bike!

[cinco]

I just don't feel the Classifieds are all that cluttered. Lot's of stuff moving though there, yes. But it is all the right kind of stuff. PSAs A-OK!

[smontanaro]

I would like to see the Marketplace split up into 3-4 sections

For Sale:
Wanted to buy:
PSA:
Vendor:

+1 Just split it up. If you aren't interested in something, don't subscribe. The fact that there are so many PSAs which appear to be pissing off a number of people is one sign that a split is due. Same sort of thing used to happen back in the Usenet days. If a group got overwhelmed by one subset of its overall charter, it would generally get split into multiple groups.

[herb5998]

No issues with PSAs, certainly some winners out there. I would say that if the classifieds can be binned according to the item sold (complete bikes/frames/wheels/etc...) keep things a little easier to scroll through


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[peanutgallery]

This many electrons over PSAs in the classifieds? Jeez

Keep it the way it is, it exists as a periphary benefit. If classifieds are the sole purpose of someone participating on Paceline and not changing it to fit their OCD will result in their lack of participation...so be it

The volunteer moderators have enough to referee with just all the day to day stuff. I find it difficult to believe that someone(s) is demanding that they now devote more of their free time in order to make sure the folks that come here purely to buy and sell stuff, get a platform that works for their needs??? Ebay ...buying and selling is their thing, and they charge you for its use. Rightly so

Now...quit squabbling over used bike treasures and go ride...outside

[charliedid]

An idea-

Kindly thank Charles for his service and request that he start the "Charles' PSA Alerts Thread" and have him post all his finds in it. This way Charles is not slowed down and others can easily peruse at their leisure. No need for Sticky as Charles is the only one who makes PSA his life's work, and good for him.

I'd prefer a segregated Classifieds as well as other categories but MODS don't seem to be up for the policing as has been stated a 1000 times.

PS Thanks for the tips Charles!

[thwart]

An idea-

Kindly thank Charles for his service and request that he start the "Charles' PSA Alerts Thread" and have him post all his finds in it. This way Charles is not slowed down and others can easily peruse at their leisure. No need for Sticky as Charles is the only one who makes PSA his life's work, and good for him.


I like it.

I really don't get the negative energy here. After all, PSA's are basically just a goodwill thing... hey, here's a cool bike and/or a good deal... and it doesn't fit me, or the CFO says I have enough for now.

[Ozz]

no problem with PSA's at all....the classifieds are a little cluttered...result of being popular I guess....having separate categories (WTB, For Sale, PSA, etc) would be OK...

My $0.02

[paredown]

In case the people who advocated to end PSAs get their way, I want to take the opportunity to thank the pals once again who have alerted me to some of my best bike buys over the last 5-6 years. If not for the PSAs, it would have taken me much longer to reach my goals and dreams.

1) Richard Sachs - thank you Paredown pal

http://alicehui.com/bike/RS/IMG_7160.jpg

...

Yer welcome! That bike still looks perfect to me--I wish I had been in a position to snag it for myself.

My thought about separate subforums, at least for WTBs is that now they will shake stuff loose from those of us who have parts surplus to our immediate needs or remind us of said parts.

I think if you have a separate WTB--it will tend to be dominated by people who are sellers/flippers as a primary reason for being on the forum, and not serve as the gentle nudge for those of us with hoarding tendencies, or whose projects have changed.

[rodcad]

I love PSA's, especially when the title is descriptive with say the size of the bike in it. I don't like a lot of things so I just scroll over them. No harm no foul. I've gotten some nice stuff via PSA's also.

[Web1111a]

I like the psa announcements

I appreciate them because you never know what else may be out there

Please don’t ban them

[Hellgate]

I like 'em. It's fun to see all of the unique bikes people find.

[nobuseri]

I've been offloading a lot of stuff on the auction site lately because I don't wish to deal with the dumb stuff that goes on here. I list it there and whatever happens, happens. If it doesn't sell I lower the price. In a lot of cases I'm sure I would have gotten a ton of comments on the items but mostly I want them gone. Trying to downsize my collection in a meaningful manner and it's not helpful with a ton of commentary or other public service announcements getting in the way. So onto the 'Bay they go. No skin off my back but I'd sort of like to get these parts, some of them kind of exotic and even legitimately 'rare' to a buyer here who might really like it.



Anyway, hardly worth a lot of effort. The stuff goes on eBay and I ship it and forget it. I'm glad I enjoyed it while I had it and when it's gone I barely remember it and I'm hopeful someone else will enjoy it as much as I have.



+1, unfortunately

[Burnette]

PSAs are awesome, the issue is that a very few want big changes that no one else wants.

So, we should make a "Changes nobody asked for but satisfy a few to the dismay of many" sub forum and have one hundred separate categories to capture gems like social media buttons and features to hide sales items from others that someone is interested in, Ha!

For those of us on the tall and short end of the height spectrum PSAs are a valuable resource. You can search yourself but you can't search everything everywhere, sometimes a PSA will have a find in a place you would have never known about or looked into.

[Tony T]

Can we put the PSA's in General Discussion? (I don't follow the classifieds)

[campy man]

Is the issue stopping PSAs or too many bumping the FS listings off the front page?

[dave thompson]

I've been offloading a lot of stuff on the auction site lately because I don't wish to deal with the dumb stuff that goes on here. I list it there and whatever happens, happens. If it doesn't sell I lower the price. In a lot of cases I'm sure I would have gotten a ton of comments on the items but mostly I want them gone. Trying to downsize my collection in a meaningful manner and it's not helpful with a ton of commentary or other public service announcements getting in the way. So onto the 'Bay they go. No skin off my back but I'd sort of like to get these parts, some of them kind of exotic and even legitimately 'rare' to a buyer here who might really like it.

Anyway, hardly worth a lot of effort. The stuff goes on eBay and I ship it and forget it. I'm glad I enjoyed it while I had it and when it's gone I barely remember it and I'm hopeful someone else will enjoy it as much as I have.
I agree with you regarding comments. It would be nice if an OP could turn off comments to his post and ask folks to PM or e-mail them. Too often FS posts get rapidly derailed with too much noise.

It’s for the same reason as saab2000 that I’ve not offered much any more on this Forum, unless it’s free or very little dollar-wise.

[Seramount]

PSAs are fine.

gripe about something that truly matters.

[bmeryman]

I'd vote to see a PSA sticky in the classifieds.

[thedude]

I’d like to take this chance to apologize for posting a few PSA bikes over the years that weren’t well received. I always cross reference the bike in question to see if there’s been any interest or mention of someone looking for said bike before I post. I personally like seeing all the random finds from around the globe. I’m not bothered by the “clutter”

[pbarry]

In this day and age, if one is not able to filter digital information, deciding what to absorb or be exposed to or not, there might be more problems going on than Paceline PSAs. ;)

[Clean39T]

Ask Hilltopperny how he feels about PSAs now that he's got a 2nd gorgeous Kirk headed his way... Just don't ask his CFO ;)

I'm fine w a sticky for PSAs. I like the one we use for tall bikes and that works well. But ending PSAs would be a tragedy...they are just too much fun to talk about and often result in happy rehoming of really cool rigs...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[jamesdak]

I am in favor of PSAs....keep 'em coming.

If you don't care about PSAs, don't open a PSA thread.


Right! It really is this simple.

[Rada]

Right! It really is this simple.

Not really. Why should members compete with board space with non members? Also members are beholden to site rules, while PSA's are not. Why?
Personally not against PSA's, but they should be separated.

[jpritchet74]

I love the PSA's! I hope that they stay.....

[Burnette]

Not really. Why should members compete with board space with non members? Also members are beholden to site rules, while PSA's are not. Why?
Personally not against PSA's, but they should be separated.

The purpose of the board isn't for a closed group only to have access, it's a public board that's open to all sales opportunities.

It's about us all sharing everything bike, especially sales (N+1 son, Ha!) not a members only sales club.

[gdw]

Another vote for creating a sticky for the folks who are addicted to bike porn or are unable to restrain their buying impulses.

[OtayBW]

Is the issue stopping PSAs or too many bumping the FS listings off the front page?
I think the PSAs dropping legitimate gear sales off the main page - especially to the extent that it happened yesterday - is a fair point.

[OtayBW]

In this day and age, if one is not able to filter digital information, deciding what to absorb or be exposed to or not, there might be more problems going on than Paceline PSAs. ;)If it were only that simple, I suspect few would have a problem and we probably would not be having this discussion....

[zambenini]

Another in favor of PSAs. Their content seems to match the interests of this forum, i.e. they are actually rare/interesting/cool bikes that people here would want to know about. I've never clikced on one and thought "man, that's stupid."

If they are spoiling the sauce here somehow, then a PSA sticky sounds like a good half measure. Sometimes, you see something cool but it's one cm too short in the top tube, but you just can't sit on it and need to tell the world! Isn't sharing stuff with each other why we're on forums?

[R3awak3n]

I don't think anyone is anti PSA, people are missing the point here.

People just want a subdivision of the for sale section... This way you can either browse the For Sale, the WTB or the PSA section. Will keep things cleaner.

Other people want a thread for PSAs. This could work too but more messy and harder to find.

[Rada]

The purpose of the board isn't for a closed group only to have access, it's a public board that's open to all sales opportunities.

It's about us all sharing everything bike, especially sales (N+1 son, Ha!) not a members only sales club.

It is closed to some extent in that you have to be a member. Why site rules for members and none for PSA's? Also who donates to the site? Buyers, those who get their gear sold through PSA, or the members here who sell? Your model is if you want to make this a link site for CL and Ebay.

[zambenini]

I don't think anyone is anti PSA, people are missing the point here.

People just want a subdivision of the for sale section... This way you can either browse the For Sale, the WTB or the PSA section. Will keep things cleaner.

Other people want a thread for PSAs. This could work too but more messy and harder to find.Subdividing the for sale section sounds like a good idea if PSAs don't belong in the classifieds.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[R3awak3n]

Subdividing the for sale section sounds like a good idea if PSAs don't belong in the classifieds.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

yeah, just cleans up the classifieds. I think mods don't want to do it because more work for them which I understand. They could maybe get another mod to help out.

[Burnette]

It is closed to some extent in that you have to be a member. Why site rules for members and none for PSA's? Also who donates to the site? Buyers, those who get their gear sold through PSA, or the members here who sell? Your model is if you want to make this a link site for CL and Ebay.

It's a bike forum first and foremost. It's a misnomer to describe PSAs as not following site rules too. It's about sharing bike stuff and as many have expressed here they do just that without violating any rules.

The argument has become a sellers versus the rest of the board argument. And for that I'll always be pro board and pro buyer. Closed sales would surely favor the seller but that's not in the spirit of classified forums and not what most that posted here want.

The truth is that some sellers here resent their sale posts being pushed down the page and IMO see this board as more of a vehicle to move used products than as a bike info sharing site.

My advice is to price your stuff right and if you have to bump more than five times the price is wrong or nobody here wants what's offered. It's not PSAs fault that crap doesn't sale.

And read this carefully, be careful what you wish for. PSAs are popular and drive traffic to the classifieds. If you relegate them to their own sub forum you could lose those eyes looking at PSAs that would also click on your old wheels that you bumped nine times in two weeks.

If the classifieds became a members only forum it would die a quick death. Seeing that same post at the top of the page three days later of something nobody wants would be the signal that it was a bad move.

[p nut]

I’ve gotten some good deals from PSA’s. Latest was the eBay discount code.

PSA = ok by me.

[SlowPokePete]

Who else besides me rode bikes today?

SPP

[nobuseri]

Who else besides me rode bikes today?



SPP



Ha. Just take this thread as a prelude into the off-season. More to come. :beer:

And yeah, I am riding today; just indoors later. Too many kid activities.

[charliedid]

Who else besides me rode bikes today?

SPP

I ride a bike every day, pete :-)

[weisan]

Who else besides me rode bikes today?

SPP

http://alicehui.com/bike/rides/image2.jpeg

[avalonracing]

Who else besides me rode bikes today?

SPP

Damn right. Urban Assault ride into and around Baltimore City in heavy wind. Thinking about making a PSA to announce it.

[Vonruden]

My wife just voted to ban PSA's as I keep buying em all :banana:

[YoKev]

Who else besides me rode bikes today?

SPP

I swapped some parts on some bikes this AM, but then went back to bed. Still nearly noon, and I found myself still on the couch in my comfy clothes with the cat laying on top of me, looking out the window at a blustery 38 degree day.

To top it off, my wife is sending me beach pictures from 80 degree FL with palm trees and dolphins and ****. She's visiting good friends, and I didn't have the time to take off.

My sister called, as equally unmotivated (must run in the family). We decided that we should go hike and find snow, so we did just that in the Catskills. It's winter out there!

[zennmotion]

The argument has become a sellers versus the rest of the board argument. And for that I'll always be pro board and pro buyer. Closed sales would surely favor the seller but that's not in the spirit of classified forums and not what most that posted here want.

The truth is that some sellers here resent their sale posts being pushed down the page and IMO see this board as more of a vehicle to move used products than as a bike info sharing site.

My advice is to price your stuff right and if you have to bump more than five times the price is wrong or nobody here wants what's offered. It's not PSAs fault that crap doesn't sale.

And read this carefully, be careful what you wish for. PSAs are popular and drive traffic to the classifieds. If you relegate them to their own sub forum you could lose those eyes looking at PSAs that would also click on your old wheels that you bumped nine times in two weeks.



I disagree, as a member who occasionally sells a few things (maybe 2x-3x per year) and buys from members (maybe 10-15x per year). Put the PSAs into their own thread, I'll still look at them when it's time for some retail therapy. But they shouldn't clog up the member listings. Every time I've listed something for sale I've been frustrated when it falls off the first couple of pages within a day, the PSAs greatly contribute to pushing member offerings down into obscurity pretty quickly. Higher priced items, like frame sets take some time to sell even at low discount prices- sometimes it's just too specific to appeal to a large audience no matter the more-than-reasonable price. I see the classifieds as a perk to being active on the forum where I can offload stuff from my basement without the hassle or fees of Ebay and get it into the hands of another member who is likely to actually appreciate it at a price that makes them happy. Or buy something from another member under somewhat reduced risk and anonymity that makes me happy. The PSA noise and bump abuse nonsense ("wow, cool color, wish it fit!) really limits the utility of the classifieds as a marketplace to facilitate sales BETWEEN MEMBERS. Put PSAs in a different thread category- I have occasionally benefited from them, but they detract from the effectiveness of the member marketplace, and detract from the community vibe of the forum. As for bumps, there's no need for third party comments except for a question that may benefit a potential buyer, a cool item is not an "achievement" and doesn't need congratulations for seller having said cool item or buyer who brilliantly "pulled the trigger" (digression, can we also please end this idiotic idiom- what are you shooting?)- and you just bumped everyone else down the page for your opinion of said cool item. Every self bump also sends another seller down the list, so don't be a jerk, once or twice in a week then let it go, not everything will sell.

[makoti]

http://alicehui.com/bike/rides/image2.jpeg

I want want want that KC jersey.

And, I'll chime in and agree with a PSA section. I've been know to post PSA's, mostly for sales that I think are extra decent rather than single bikes, but stick them somewhere they don't push member FS ad's off. That only seems right.

[Burnette]

I disagree, as a member who occasionally sells a few things (maybe 2x-3x per year) and buys from members (maybe 10-15x per year). Put the PSAs into their own thread, I'll still look at them when it's time for some retail therapy. But they shouldn't clog up the member listings. Every time I've listed something for sale I've been frustrated when it falls off the first couple of pages within a day, the PSAs greatly contribute to pushing member offerings down into obscurity pretty quickly. Higher priced items, like frame sets take some time to sell even at low discount prices- sometimes it's just too specific to appeal to a large audience no matter the more-than-reasonable price. I see the classifieds as a perk to being active on the forum where I can offload stuff from my basement without the hassle or fees of Ebay and get it into the hands of another member who is likely to actually appreciate it at a price that makes them happy. Or buy something from another member under somewhat reduced risk and anonymity that makes me happy. The PSA noise and bump abuse nonsense ("wow, cool color, wish it fit!) really limits the utility of the classifieds as a marketplace to facilitate sales BETWEEN MEMBERS. Put PSAs in a different thread category- I have occasionally benefited from them, but they detract from the effectiveness of the member marketplace, and detract from the community vibe of the forum. As for bumps, there's no need for third party comments except for a question that may benefit a potential buyer, a cool item is not an "achievement" and doesn't need congratulations for seller having said cool item or buyer- and you just bumped everyone else down the page for your opinion of said cool item. Every self bump also sends another seller down the list, so don't be a jerk, once or twice in a week then let it go, not everything will sell.

If you read back through your post you see my point though. The classifieds aren't about the personal gain of just a few and PSAs are indeed more in the spirit of the forum more so than individual attempts to keep slow selling items on page one. Again, if your stuff ain't selling it means nobody wants it. We're talking about second hand bike stuff here, unless it's rare and/or highly sought after then what is it really? The fact that most of it doesn't sell should be of no real surprise.

Even you admitted to benefiting from PSAs. The real problem isn't that PSAs are bad, it's that too many here see the classifieds as more than just a simple sharing and selling forum, they see it as a personal vehicle for themselves and want to exclude anything that puts off that old derailleur, wheel set or handle bar bag that is languishing on the page.

What is being missed here is that the more interesting stuff that is posted in the classifieds the more often people will visit the page.

[Llewellyn]

So we've got to 9 pages but no input from any of the mods that I can see to sort the issue out yet????????????????

[jamesdak]

Funny thing is I know of more than one time when the PSA is also a members item that they haven't listed here.

Hmmmm.......

Yep, still lovin' the PSA's! :banana::banana::banana:

[jtakeda]

From my experience selling here--which is limited to maybe 20-30 items it either sells really fast or doesnt sell at all.

And if it doesnt sell and someone wants it--theyll message me weeks down the road.

PSAs dont bother me at all and I'm definitely guilty of posting them. I have had a bike that I was watching on ebay get blown up by a PSA before though--that kind of sucked, but nothing says people wouldnt have found it anyway

[John H.]

This thread sent Charles into a PSA tear! ;)

[FlashUNC]

The classifieds aren't about the personal gain of just a few and PSAs are indeed more in the spirit of the forum more so than individual attempts to keep slow selling items on page one. Again, if your stuff ain't selling it means nobody wants it. We're talking about second hand bike stuff here, unless it's rare and/or highly sought after then what is it really? The fact that most of it doesn't sell should be of no real surprise.

Even you admitted to benefiting from PSAs. The real problem isn't that PSAs are bad, it's that too many here see the classifieds as more than just a simple sharing and selling forum, they see it as a personal vehicle for themselves and want to exclude anything that puts off that old derailleur, wheel set or handle bar bag that is languishing on the page.

What is being missed here is that the more interesting stuff that is posted in the classifieds the more often people will visit the page.

This is a pretty gross mischaracterization of the anti-PSA view, such as it is. It's not about some elitist benefit for a select few. But Classifieds for actual, yanno, posters here to sell whatever's clogging their parts bin. It's not some Marrakesh market designed to have people shouting from all corners of the bike internet to get eyeballs.

Again, anyone with half a coding sense could build a site similar to watchrecon.com that'd pull in everything you'd need for bike stuff. It's a resistance to any kind fo curation that leads to seemingly more posts about stuff you can find from rando elsewhere than the stuff members here are parting with.

[TonyG]

I would like to see the Marketplace split up into 3-4 sections

For Sale:
Wanted to buy:
PSA:
Vendor:

YES!

That is the way it is on most forums I have been a member.

[YoKev]

So we've got to 9 pages but no input from any of the mods that I can see to sort the issue out yet????????????????

Well, not entirely. Someone moved it from the classifieds to general discussion :p

[Vonruden]

How about a "Are you looking for one of these...." pinned thread that we can post psa's? I'm fine the way it is, just a thought.

[tctyres]

I think there should be a pinned cnighbor's psa thread at the top. Charles can just put everything in there that he finds.

[OtayBW]

What is being missed here is that the more interesting stuff that is posted in the classifieds the more often people will visit the page.With all due resepct, given the fact that we've seen all kinds of arguments for and against the PSAs right here, who defines what is 'interesting stuff' among all the people who visit these pages? And who's to say how changing the policy will improve the quality of visitation? I see merit in both sides of the PSA arguments discussed here and think that some kind of balanced resolution could be reasonably worked out, but I'm not sure I understand that this is it.

[Burnette]

.With all due resepct, given the fact that we've seen all kinds of arguments for and against the PSAs right here, who defines what is 'interesting stuff' among all the people who visit these pages? And who's to say how changing the policy will improve the quality of visitation? I see merit in both sides of the PSA arguments discussed here and think that some kind of balanced resolution could be reasonably worked out, but I'm not sure I understand that this is it.

Members in this post by majority have defined what is interesting, that they find PSAs interesting and of value. The kicker here is that a fair amountof anti PSA members like PSAs too and have benefited from them and enjoyed reading them.

Their main gripe is that their slow selling stuff is getting pushed down page. It's mostly used bike stuff, it doesn't sell well anywhere unless it's something special. There are some old classified posts, one in May, one in June. Think about that a minute. It's not PSAs fault crap doesn't sale. Again, it's been the norm for like forever that on the secondary market it's a buyer's market. Sellers will always struggle, especially on that stem, pair of shoes or nifty saddle bag.

If classifieds become full of months old crap nobody wants people will visit them less.

[OtayBW]

.

Members in this post by majority have defined what is interesting, that they find PSAs interesting and of value. Fascinating. I did not realize that it was all that clear! :rolleyes:

[Burnette]

Fascinating. I did not realize that it was all that clear! :rolleyes:

Read back through, it's pretty clear and again, the anti crowd's issue is their slow selling stuff first and foremost. As if second hand bibs are selling like hotcakes somewhere else, Ha!

[fiamme red]

I think there should be a pinned cnighbor's psa thread at the top. Charles can just put everything in there that he finds.I think that's a good idea, but it shouldn't be pinned.

I did a search for threads with "PSA" in the title in the Classifieds. Looking at the latest 25 threads, Charles has started 20 of them.

I should say that I do like PSAs, and I do like having Charles here.

[OtayBW]

Read back through, it's pretty clear and again, the anti crowd's issue is their slow selling stuff first and foremost. As if second hand bibs are selling like hotcakes somewhere else, Ha!
Thanks. I took you up on you offer, but I must have missed all the ruckus about problems with second hand bib sales....:rolleyes:

[Burnette]

Thanks. I took you up on you offer, but I must have missed all the ruckus about problems with second hand bib sales....:rolleyes:

Let me tell you, they stink.

[fiamme red]

Déjà vu: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1013951.

[gdw]

Since it's Veterans Day, I propose we cease bickering about psa's at 11:00am est on this 11th day of the 11 month of this year and let the moderators deal with the issue.

[Dino Suegiù]

Since it's Veterans Day, I propose we cease bickering about psa's at 11:00am est on this 11th day of the 11 month of this year and let the moderators deal with the issue.

Then some people will just bicker about why "11:00am est", rather than GMT or their own time zone etc. Some people really enjoy the bickering "process", apparently.

[Tony]

Since it's Veterans Day, I propose we cease bickering about psa's at 11:00am est on this 11th day of the 11 month of this year and let the moderators deal with the issue.

Yes, lets end this with "the feelers"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OfWFhD8FXE

[old fat man]

I hate the PSA's. Poor them in a separate sub forum so I can ignore them like I ignore the vendor classifieds and bike fit and builder spotlights.

[RudAwkning]

I tried putting a user on my "block" list but it only blocked the content of their posts. Not the post itself if they were the OP. Can that be changed? That would fix everything for everyone.

[loxx0050]

I am not a fan of the sheer volume of PSAs recently personally but just ignore them. Why not instead put a limit on the number of new threads one is allowed to make in the classifieds on a weekly or monthly basis? That would limit such individuals to post what seems like every single bike under the sun they come across as a PSA and have to chose which ones make the roster cut for the week or month.

That will also deter creating individual threads for single items by a single user too and force them to consolidate to a combined thread (there are always a few that seem to do this and then bump them all after a day or two).

Don't know what cap number to put but let's say 5 a week or 25 a month is the limit of new threads to begin with for members who are eligible to post in the classifieds. If you have that much stuff to sell that you'd really need a higher limit then maybe you should re-evaluate your buying decisions (and admit you have a problem ;)).

[Blown Reek]

Whoever tagged this thread with "brussel sprouts", thank you.

[72gmc]

+ whatever on the sticky. I find some PSA discussions amusing, but I also agree with keeping the main body of the classifieds within the community.

[zennmotion]

With all due resepct, given the fact that we've seen all kinds of arguments for and against the PSAs right here, who defines what is 'interesting stuff' among all the people who visit these pages? And who's to say how changing the policy will improve the quality of visitation? I see merit in both sides of the PSA arguments discussed here and think that some kind of balanced resolution could be reasonably worked out, but I'm not sure I understand that this is it.

Again, as many have said the balanced resolution is simple. Separate sections specifically for PSAs- I don't buy the argument that PSAs drive traffic to the classifieds in a way that members benefit from additional views (sellers) or visibility (potential buyers). The classifieds section as it is now is clunky to navigate; nearly all my purchases from other members have been impulse from something I happened to see while scanning the first couple pages, not from searching for something specific, I don't think I'm the only one who rarely scans more than the first 2-3 pages. Breaking out the PSAs into another thread would not require any significant additional time for the (volunteer) mods, and people who are interested in the PSA opportunities can actually quickly see them all together more easily. I have not read an evidence-based reason not to do that, people can have their blowout Rapha announcements, their 64cm vintage Colnago Craigs List rare finds, and the rest of the classifieds can still be a place where member hoarders can offload and onload from each other. Seems like a reasonable balance to me! PL has grown tremendously in size and activity over the years, the classifieds don't work well as they are anymore but change is hard for some! Paceline is a membership-based community forum for bike geeks and cycling enthusiasts, the classifieds should reflect that. PSAs are cool, but they are essentially free advertising outside the PL community. You can have your cake and eat it too. separate thread for PSAs- Put it up for a vote

[Pegoready]

A lot of the PSA's are worthless since they link to local Craigslist ads. What are the chances that anyone here will benefit from a random Craigslist ad from East Lansing?

I think C. Nighbor, who posts the most PSAs, should have his own sticky thread. I think the taste and variation of his findings are fun, but I don't need to see 8 different threads that legitimately edge out member's threads that people often take a lot of work to put together, only to be edged out by a Craigslist ad from a seller uninterested in the Paceline.

[KJMUNC]

A lot of the PSA's are worthless since they link to local Craigslist ads. What are the chances that anyone here will benefit from a random Craigslist ad from East Lansing?

A lot higher than you'd expect.....I know of multiple bikes that were posted and then bought by someone either locally who had missed it, someone willing to travel for it, or the seller was willing to ship.

I'm all for separating PSAs into their own section. that way people who like/don't like them know where they are and can make their own choice about viewing vs. being on the same page as members trying to sell to one another.

[cnighbor1]

Has long has it exists I use it. Just be thankful persons like me our willing to go to the time and effort to post them

Charles Nighbor

[chiasticon]

I grabbed an awesome Zanc once via the PSA's. it was on CL on the other side of the country. someone here posted, another one facilitated, and I later resold the bike here. it's bounced around to a couple different members since then. I'd say they have their purpose.

I also like the PSA's for vendor deals I otherwise may not have noticed (rapha sale, ebay coupon, etc).

that said, sometimes there are a ton of them. separating WTB, PSA, FS, and vendors out into sub-forums would be a good approach.

[zennmotion]

I grabbed an awesome Zanc once via the PSA's. it was on CL on the other side of the country. someone here posted, another one facilitated, and I later resold the bike here. it's bounced around to a couple different members since then. I'd say they have their purpose.

I also like the PSA's for vendor deals I otherwise may not have noticed (rapha sale, ebay coupon, etc).

that said, sometimes there are a ton of them. separating WTB, PSA, FS, and vendors out into sub-forums would be a good approach.

PL sponsors should get to do whatever the heck the want because they keep the lights on. But I'm seeing a consensus here on having separate sub-forums/threads for these categories (or at least PSAs for now).

Analogy- when you walk into a hardware store would it benefit anyone to have everything just mixed on to the shelves based on the date when the supplier truck showed up just so you have more eyes on all the stuff you have to see to get to what you might want to buy? (Actually my neighborhood Ace hardware is something like that- it's a hoot but requires an escort guide to find anything :rolleyes:) OK maybe not a perfect analogy (since my Ace hardware guide is also a home improvement genius saving me lots of money with expert advice over many years!) I'm not suggesting that lots of categories get added (although maybe that's the more distant future, along with a PAID mod or two to manage it...) But breaking the current classifieds architecture into a few categories would benefit buyers sellers and just lookers

[OtayBW]

Has long has it exists I use it. Just be thankful persons like me our willing to go to the time and effort to post them
I can appreciate you interest and effort; however, I think it's fair to say that the PSAs are not universally perceived as the great benefit that you would suggest.

[Dino Suegiù]

Whoever tagged this thread with "brussel sprouts", thank you.

That is funny, yes.

[zennmotion]

I can appreciate you interest and effort; however, I think it's fair to say that the PSAs are not universally perceived as the great benefit that you would suggest.

This^, appreciate the heads up on PSAs, really! But there are unintended consequences that would be good to work out so that all member interests are served and we end up with a better forum in the end.

[pbarry]

This^, appreciate the heads up on PSAs, really! But there are unintended consequences that would be good to work out so that all member interests are served and we end up with a better forum in the end.

This will never happen, anywhere, bike forum or government entity, et al. Would be a special day if it could be done tho! :)

[OtayBW]

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I see some good arguments on all sides of the equation and would like to see some kind of reasonable solution. Heck, even if it is to stay as it is, I would like to hear that from the mods. That said, I will kick in $50.00 to the forum just to get some kind of feedback from the mods at this point. Offer stands.

[zennmotion]

This will never happen, anywhere, bike forum or government entity, et al. Would be a special day if it could be done tho! :)

Well, I guess. Some just need a place to argue! (it's a joke, son...) :fight:

[zennmotion]

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I see some good arguments on all sides of the equation and would like to see some kind of reasonable solution. Heck, even if it is to stay as it is, I would like to hear that from the mods. That said, I will kick in $50.00 to the forum just to get some kind of feedback from the mods at this point. Offer stands.

I'd pay $50 to anyone willing to just tie up my phone line so my boss thinks I'm working and not wasting time in here. $100 if I can choose the on-hold muzak.

[Dino Suegiù]

Has long has it exists I use it. Just be thankful persons like me our willing to go to the time and effort to post them

Charles Nighbor

This a bit much, isn't it, asking for members here to be "thankful" for this "work"?

It seems that this is a hobby of yours, no, finding these "deals"? You choose to do the "work", and then you present it on at least one other platform (I still get the BOB emails every day). The exercising of one's hobby in a public forum shouldn't entitle one to any special acknowledgment or treatment.

This isn't the Red Cross or something, in terms of volunteerism and help, and the repeated opposition to the stacked PSAs has been, is, and will always be also valid at least until the organization improves.

[earlfoss]

No matter how you feel about PSA's, once this discussion quiets down you can rest assured it will come up again in ~12-24 months for a thorough rehash.

[m4rk540]

PSA's, why are they in the classifieds if nothing is being sold or solicited? Or has that question been asked a thousand times previously?

[Bruce K]

OK

My take as a mod (though it is fairly similar to most of the team)

We’ve discussed this a bunch and sentiment ebbs and flows.

The more sub-sections we have, the more time it takes for us to keep up with things so we have tried to limit that as best we can and still keep the majority of members happy.

This place is a discussion forum/community/on line gathering place first and the Classifieds are more of a service than the primary function of the Paceline. We don’t want it to be a marketplace first.

As for adding mods, we have discussed it and domestically, we are good. We have unsuccessfully tried to recruit a mod in Europe and one in Australia to try and get better ‘round the clock coverage. We also tried to get Keith some technical support help with again, no luck.

Not much else to add but I hope this clarifies some of where we are at for the moment

BK

[echappist]

Has long has it exists I use it. Just be thankful persons like me our willing to go to the time and effort to post them

Charles Nighbor

actually didn't have an opinion on this until I saw this post. Most of the items in the PSA were not remotely close to my size, nor are they usually the types of stuff I want, but live and let live. Ditto for having forum member's posts getting pushed down, as people can just search for what people want, though it does reduce the spur-of-moment purchases. That said, tooting one's own horns is never a good look, and it seems to have gone to the head of the most prolific poster of PSA threads...

[makoti]

separate thread for PSAs- Put it up for a vote

I wondered why this thread didn't have a poll attached

[rnhood]

This place is a discussion forum/community/on line gathering place first and the Classifieds are more of a service than the primary function of the Paceline. We don’t want it to be a marketplace first.
BK

This is what I thought too. Which leads me to ask the question, why not ban PSA's as posting these runs counter to the forum function? I can't think of a better example of a properly run classified forum than Weight Weenies, who don't allow PSA's and, don't allow pokers to keep making follow up comments on a classified ad. There should not be any follow-ups. Let a prospective buyer email or PM the seller to make the purchase, or to ask a question.

The classified section of this forum is not much different than flea market right now. It really needs to be reformed.

[PaMtbRider]

Has long has it exists I use it. Just be thankful persons like me our willing to go to the time and effort to post them

Charles Nighbor

I'd be thankful if you would create your own thread and update it to your delight. Post a million links to stuff that you think is interesting if that is how you find yourself serving the community here. I just get tired of hitting the new posts button and seeing 15 of them are a PSA to something I have no interest in.

[93KgBike]

I'd be thankful if you would create [ A SINGLE POST ] update it to your delight. ...

FWIW

That is how I maintain my transaction feedback post. Rather than creating a new post for every transaction I have, I just update my one post.

It's less confusing, for me.

[jtbadge]

I'd be thankful if you would create your own thread and update it to your delight. Post a million links to stuff that you think is interesting if that is how you find yourself serving the community here. I just get tired of hitting the new posts button and seeing 15 of them are a PSA to something I have no interest in.

/thread

[pbarry]

FWIW

That is how I maintain my transaction feedback post. Rather than creating a new post for every transaction I have, I just update my one post.

It's less confusing, for me.

Great idea.

[OtayBW]

OK

My take as a mod (though it is fairly similar to most of the team)

We’ve discussed this a bunch and sentiment ebbs and flows.

The more sub-sections we have, the more time it takes for us to keep up with things so we have tried to limit that as best we can and still keep the majority of members happy.

This place is a discussion forum/community/on line gathering place first and the Classifieds are more of a service than the primary function of the Paceline. We don’t want it to be a marketplace first.

As for adding mods, we have discussed it and domestically, we are good. We have unsuccessfully tried to recruit a mod in Europe and one in Australia to try and get better ‘round the clock coverage. We also tried to get Keith some technical support help with again, no luck.

Not much else to add but I hope this clarifies some of where we are at for the moment

BK
Thank-you for your response. I can appreciate not wanting to put additional burdens on the Mods – makes sense to me.

Personally, I also don’t see this place as being a marketplace first, nor do I see it (or want to see it...) moving in that direction. But I do see the marketplace as being an integral part of the community. In the long run, we are really about riding and less about talking (well, maybe sometimes?), and toward that end, I view the marketplace as being more than just a service – it’s both an important draw and an important resource to the community. My take, FWIW….

Whatever you all decide to do is OK with me. The PSAs sometimes get a little ridiculous. Maybe a little user self-control might help. The idea of an updated sticky thread that has been suggested by others also seems like a good idea that should involve little hassle.

Check is in the mail....

[thwart]

Has long has it exists I use it. Just be thankful persons like me our willing to go to the time and effort to post them

Charles Nighbor

I love Charles... but someone clearly needs to have a little talk with him.

A single thread for his PSA's would take care of 80% (OK, 95% ;)) of the issues people have.

That all said, I would find myself checking there frequently.

[Llewellyn]

Has long has it exists I use it. Just be thankful persons like me our willing to go to the time and effort to post them

Charles Nighbor

Sorry, but this comes across as a bit high and mighty and annoyingly arrogant.

If the mods don't want to set up a separate PSA forum then it seems to me the easiest way to appease both sides of the argument is for Charles to set up his own PSA thread. Then he can post as many PSA's as he likes and they're all in one place without infringing on the other seller's posts.

[srcarter]

As a beneficiary of a PSA that got me a bike, I am in favor of keeping them (in some form). I have posted a few over time that I thought were interesting bikes at favorable prices.

[Waldo]

I write to register my objection to OP's using an apostrophe to pluralize PSA in thread title...

[mhespenheide]

I post them some times, and I know of at least two purchases that have come from a PSA that I've posted. So that, to me, says there's at least some value.

I wouldn't be opposed to a subforum specifically for PSAs, though.

As someone who's 6'4", though, I like the "bigbike PSA" thread that consolidates 60cm+ bikes into a single thread. Perhaps there's an idea there...

[NHAero]

This would do the trick with no bans, no new sub-sections, no new mods from Alpha Centauri. How about it Charles, can you start your own PSA thread and post all your PSAs in that one thread?

QUOTE=thwart;2454085]I love Charles... but someone clearly needs to have a little talk with him.

A single thread for his PSA's would take care of 80% (OK, 95% ;)) of the issues people have.

That all said, I would find myself checking there frequently.[/QUOTE]

[chiasticon]

thanks to this thread, last night I had a dream that there was a PSA for a sweet 53cm cantilever-ed Firefly cross bike in the Classifieds. :help:

[DRZRM]

Why are you guys piling onto Charles? Is he the only one posting PSAs? No. For you folks who don't like the inconvenience of seeing PSAs you are not interested in when you come to the Classifieds, how do you manage the frustration of all the for sale posts for things that you don't want to buy?

Maybe while you are asking the mods to do more work to avoid this sort of discomfort, you could just send them a list of the stuff you really want to buy and they could "curate" a custom area for things you might like so you would not have to deal with the overwhelming number of posts that don't serve your specific interests.

I can tell it's snowing somewhere, because here come the repeated complaints about how the Paceline forum has not been shaped enough for your convenience.

Charles, from someone who has (as far as I remember) never benefitted from one of your PSAs, I am perfectly happy they--and all other PSAs--are here. If I don't want to read them, I suppose I can develop the skill of not clicking on them. For those who are upset that hardworking merchants are being bumped off the front page (because that's an important piece of mod responsibility) you know there is a button at the lower right hand side of the page that allows you to skip right to the next page, and see if there are some cool, non-PSA posts you may want to click on.

You guys should check the Classifieds for fat bikes or trainers so you can get back to riding this winter.

[gdw]

I like brussel sprouts.

[echappist]

Why are you guys piling onto Charles? Is he the only one posting PSAs? No.

it's the scale of things. almost the entire page covered by Mr. Nighbor's PSAs. It was liking hives breaking out on the skin last Friday (see post upthread)

that and his attitude that he deserves gratitude suggests it's gone to his head



For you folks who don't like the inconvenience of seeing PSAs you are not interested in when you come to the Classifieds, how do you manage the frustration of all the for sale posts for things that you don't want to buy?


b/c it's at least relevant and pertinent to the seller, presumably a member of the community?


Maybe while you are asking the mods to do more work to avoid this sort of discomfort, you could just send them a list of the stuff you really want to buy and they could "curate" a custom area for things you might like so you would not have to deal with the overwhelming number of posts that don't serve your specific interests.


No one is suggesting that (btw, bad form to insinuate things people didn't suggest).

I've counted at least 10 posts where people suggest a consolidated PSA thread, and that would appear to accommodate the wishes of the majority not to have the entire classified section be plastered by PSA and the wish of Mr. Nighbor (and whoever else) to post PSA

https://aqnaia.by.files.1drv.com/y4mQPmKhNG1XbP8vSmD2OEiahJpCP_TXQziQCM88sIPL4LVUrg PfyYKZJeP2vjhkE2cXhp3tvtYf72CvIMwytmvdARLeDTVSMb3b 8C-xEc5FtufMgDzWSNR46apuLt9J190oZrpFZ38ke9WMkamjxX5yp yNO1z5osUsx95d2GGrpI2OinqwG_yi-Uwa7y3YbutvMEzBWD4EVzUMKdmUo39yQw?width=660&height=307&cropmode=none

[cinema]

I like brussel sprouts.

gdw's been a member since 2003 guys. he wins. this thread is now about brussels sprouts

[ChristianWong]

I write to register my objection to OP's using an apostrophe to pluralize PSA in thread title...

While I fully agree with your sentiment, I hope your apostrophe use was tongue-in-cheek.

[Hellgate]

I like brussel sprouts.Me too, broiled with sea salt and olive oil.

[TimD]

I post them some times, and I know of at least two purchases that have come from a PSA that I've posted. So that, to me, says there's at least some value.

I wouldn't be opposed to a subforum specifically for PSAs, though.

As someone who's 6'4", though, I like the "bigbike PSA" thread that consolidates 60cm+ bikes into a single thread. Perhaps there's an idea there...

Seconded.

[Tony]

he's been a member since 2003 guys. he wins. this thread is now about brussels sprouts

Yes, this is his gig, trying to do what he feels is right. There's certainly no bad intentions behind it. Obviously his motivation is to help others however at the expense of inconveniencing some.

There are many here who are also long time members, some don't want the PSA in the classifieds others do, many like me don't care. Not sure why there is not a vote on the issue?

[seanile]

Sorry, but this comes across as a bit high and mighty and annoyingly arrogant.

If the mods don't want to set up a separate PSA forum then it seems to me the easiest way to appease both sides of the argument is for Charles to set up his own PSA thread. Then he can post as many PSA's as he likes and they're all in one place without infringing on the other seller's posts.

agreed on all points

[jr59]

gdw's been a member since 2003 guys. he wins. this thread is now about brussels sprouts


Me too, broiled with sea salt and olive oil.

Stop it, you guys are making me hungry

[72gmc]

There is a local place that serves Brussels sprouts with honey and sriracha. Set a Manhattan alongside and you’re set to browse used bike listings for a while.

[Bruce K]

Thread hijack alert!

All this Brussels sprout conversation is annoying.

Why don’t you start your own Brussel sprout thread?

Maybe the mods will make it a sticky!

If there are too many brussel sprout posts I won’t ever get to read about my asparagus!

Sheesh. ;)

BK

[William]

Brussel Spouts???

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlR3kHtkgFbYfgQ/giphy.gif






William

[gdw]

PSA - Sprouts on Baseline, Boulder CO, is selling brussel sprouts for $.98 a pound.....$1.51 off list, offer good through the 14th!

[pobrien]

Why are you guys piling onto Charles? Is he the only one posting PSAs? No. For you folks who don't like the inconvenience of seeing PSAs you are not interested in when you come to the Classifieds, how do you manage the frustration of all the for sale posts for things that you don't want to buy?

Maybe while you are asking the mods to do more work to avoid this sort of discomfort, you could just send them a list of the stuff you really want to buy and they could "curate" a custom area for things you might like so you would not have to deal with the overwhelming number of posts that don't serve your specific interests.

I can tell it's snowing somewhere, because here come the repeated complaints about how the Paceline forum has not been shaped enough for your convenience.

Charles, from someone who has (as far as I remember) never benefitted from one of your PSAs, I am perfectly happy they--and all other PSAs--are here. If I don't want to read them, I suppose I can develop the skill of not clicking on them. For those who are upset that hardworking merchants are being bumped off the front page (because that's an important piece of mod responsibility) you know there is a button at the lower right hand side of the page that allows you to skip right to the next page, and see if there are some cool, non-PSA posts you may want to click on.

You guys should check the Classifieds for fat bikes or trainers so you can get back to riding this winter.


DRZRM, I could not have phrased it better. I also wonder how some of the complainers get through reading the newspaper without having a fit over stories they are not interested in reading. (hint, skip over them).


Thank you Charles for the postings. Keep them coming!

(It would be a kind gesture for the Moderators to close this thread).




__________________

[AngryScientist]

(It would be a kind gesture for the Moderators to close this thread).




happy to help.

rest assured, the moderators have seen the thread. all comments will be considered. thanks.