California burning-again

[Drmojo]

Surprised no one has mentioned this- the smoke is
everywhere
And Paradise is toast, Malibu evacuating?
Here we go again. I won’t ride with the
air quality here in Napa.

[jtakeda]

I thought I was going to get some miles in for the 3 day weekend. Sounds like I’m going thrifting instead.

The smoke over here is overwhelming, I’m having to wear a mask at work —eyes are burning and I’m already starting to get a headache

[Clean39T]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp7X2RKAYeH/?utm_source=ig_embed

Gadzooks.

I love the West Coast, but other parts of the country are starting to look more livable...

[andeww]

The Santa Ana winds are starting to build up here which is a recipe for disaster, really hoping nothing sparks up.

[joosttx]

My car was covered in ashes this morning. The smoke blew in yesterday around noon. Cancelled riding my bike with my son today as a result. We need rain.

[false_Aest]

Ash cloud over the Santa Monica Mtns.

Starting to be able to smell the fire.

It's in Franco Bike's back yard.

Guess I'm not riding outside this weekend.

[mtechnica]

Sky’s blue in riverside but it’s windy

[monkeybanana86]

I was really looking forward to ride this morning as I have the day off but air quality is pretty bad even miles and miles away. Hope all the folks up there are doing okay.

[Hawker]

So sorry for all you CA peeps. A darn shame!

[velotrack]

no chance i'm riding today. hopefully it clears so i can get something in longer tomorrow.

[DRietz]

It’s pretty apocalyptic as far west as Sonoma County.

[pdmtong]

Down here on the peninsula it's hazy and not a day to ride. Looks like my Sunday will be a double whammy of breathing bad air while watching silver and black suck even further.

Down south our friends in Agoura Hills (Kanan/101) evacuated at 1:30am last night as the fire jumped 101 towards Malibu. There house is still there but the smoke damage is hard to know at this point.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181109/52aed1c83395fafb13b88ae6bf38bf8f.jpg

[radsmd]

Just flew over it, going into LAX. Could see the flames on the fire line. Hope everybody is safe.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Best wishes and luck to all you Californians. My son lives in West LA now so I’m paying closer to attention to locations of these.

[GOTHBROOKS]

the thomas fire got within a 1/4 mile of my house in ojai.
it was raining ash when i was riding on mulhullond this morning but i didnt know if it was from the hill fire, the woolsey, or the one that popped up in griffith park.

[metalheart]

I stopped at the top of a climb and saw this cloud of smoke from the Camp fire near Paradise and Chico, about 100 miles north of home for me. The smoke is drifting down into the Sacramento Valley, so I kept my ride in the foothills. This is a massively destructive fire ....

[Ken Robb]

So far it's a lovely day in San Diego but we are just as dry as most of California so it could get bad here too.

[AngryScientist]

i just heard that they ordered the evacuation of all residents of Malibu?

bad news. stay safe everyone out there.

[joosttx]

This was taken at about 2:45 today in Kentfield, CA.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4835/43985464520_e3d7e8bc9f_h.jpg

[stackie]

Through a long string of relationships, we know of a family in Paradise whose home burned. On top of that, her employer was the hospital there which also sustained damage and there is question that it may close. Additionally with entire town essentially gone, there are not many places to go for shelter, relief, or help. No family in the area. Triple hit there. No home, no job, "no" support.

We've sent some cash to help, but just have to say "Wow, that's bad."

Just to remind everyone that human beings are really being affected by these fires. Take a second to think and be grateful for what we have.

Jon

[MikeD]

I check the airnow.gov website. It was moderate air quality for where I live today so I went out and rode. Couldn't smell smoke, but it was like a cloudy and cool day.

I can't help but think there's got to be a better way with respect to these fires. Maybe some sort of rapid response force that can attack the fires while they are small, better building codes for more fire resistant structures, better fire breaks and defensible spaces, removal of dead wood, killing power when winds are high, I don't know.. just thinking out loud.

[joosttx]

as of 4:42 pm PST the top of Mt Tam is not visible because of smoke from fires hundreds of miles away

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4890/45803196901_cfcdff4b19_h.jpg

[Peter B]

<snip>

This is a massively destructive fire ....

Camp Fire.

90,000 acres, 9 dead, >6,700 structures destroyed, 3,323 firefighters, town of Paradise GONE.

In 36 hours!

Started at 6:30 am 11/8.

Most homes destroyed by a single fire in CA history.

5% contained.

Red Flag warning again tomorrow.

Thoughts, prayers, support for those affected and those battling to contain it.

[smead]

Yeah.., for those whining about not being able to ride for a day or two.., c'mon ..

[joosttx]

Yeah.., for those whining about not being able to ride for a day or two.., c'mon ..

Who is whining about riding? This is a tradegy. No one on this thread has been this insensitive. These fires are insane

[weisan]

https://www.facebook.com/brynn.chatfield/videos/10155579892351736/

[oldpotatoe]

Unfortunately these awful fires have been thrown into the political arena by a US gov't 'spokesman' who doesn't think much of Governor Brown..I've been in SoCal with fires all around..not much is scarier..

[paulh]

There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!

[oldpotatoe]

There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!

Did you forget the 'irony' or '***arge' emoji??

[paulh]

That's the early morning tweet from guess who.

[oldpotatoe]

That's the early morning tweet from guess who.

I read it, I know who is tweet stormin again..tiresome, worrisome.

[Grant McLean]

https://www.facebook.com/brynn.chatfield/videos/10155579892351736/

whoa!

[MikeD]

There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!


Plenty of blame to go around, at the state and federal level https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article216160995.html

[joosttx]

9:30 am PST. Mt Tam is barely visible. And it is hard the breathe the air.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4848/45089322584_c0f8908725_h.jpg

[Duende]

^^^ :(

My brother came into town. We rented him a bike and everything. But I don’t want to be inhaling this crap. 😷😪

[FriarQuade]

The upside is that by the time these fires die out, most of the state will have burned in the last 5 years and it should be good for a while. Let's not forget that forest fires are a part of nature and need to happen.

[Hawker]

The upside is that by the time these fires die out, most of the state will have burned in the last 5 years and it should be good for a while. Let's not forget that forest fires are a part of nature and need to happen.

Indeed, fires are a part of nature. But losing many thousands of homes, businesses and lives doesn't "need to happen". Calling these fires an "upside" seems a little insensitive.

Now that we have "interrupted" nature a better way has to be found. Unfortunately, I don't know how we deal with the continuing droughts that are a large component of these fires.

[smead]

There have been plenty of destructive fires here in Northern CA in the last few years. Many have burned out entire neighborhoods on the edges of towns and cities. But this fire in Butte county is a new level of horror and destruction. Try to get your mind around a town of 27,000 covering about 25 square miles being completely enveloped in fire. Some homes and structures were saved, but this town is essentially burned off the map.

The fire is now in the town of Magalia 3 miles to the north which has about 11,000 people, most of whom are in a small area of about 5 square miles.

[Ken Robb]

I'm knocking on wood but it's a lovely 75F cloudless day in La Jolla with very gentle breezes. Maybe we are lucky our area is so built-up that there are few areas where really big fires could get to our neighborhood. OTOH we are close to the Rose Canyon Fault.

[Dino Suegiù]

Wow.

[joosttx]

About 2:45pm

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4810/44000828600_640241c7bd_h.jpg

[joosttx]

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5475/30081477685_aeb11102a2_h.jpg

[Peter B]

Here's a little perspective on the Camp Fire destruction

https://www.sfgate.com/california-wildfires/article/Camp-Fire-Paradise-before-and-after-photos-13378605.php

CA State managed forests:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_California_state_forests

Federally managed forestland:



FWIW, Malibu CA is not a forest:

The rest is private property. aka holy ground.

#falsenews #maga

[Peter B]

Forgive the propaganda and ban me if needed.



https://yubanet.com/featured/now/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_wildfires

25 dead

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/10/trump-blames-gross-mismanagement-wildfires-leave-trail-death-destruction-california/?utm_term=.4558eb366c78

deep within the CA mis-managed forests

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/10/us/the-california-fires-in-photos.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

[Drmojo]

I saw no “ propaganda” Rock Star
Apocalyptic
And I thought last fire season was bad
and it was the worst
until now

[Peter B]

Same ole arsehole here.

Stats update.
Be aware. Be concerned. Give support. Attention on your #local fire

https://yubanet.com/Fires/camp/

Incident Name: Camp, Butte County
State: CA
Lead Agency: CAL FIRE BTU
Size (acres): 105,000
Percent Contained: 20%
Estimate of Containment: Nov. 30, 2018
Personnel: 4,050
Structures Destroyed: 6,713 (estimate)

November 10, 2018 at 6:25 PM

The confirmed death toll from the Camp Fire now stands at 23.



http://www.fire.ca.gov/current_incidents/incidentdetails/Index/2277
Camp Fire Incident Information:
Last Updated: November 10, 2018 7:12 pm
Date/Time Started: November 08, 2018 6:33 am
Administrative Unit: Unified Command: CAL FIRE/ Butte County Fire, Butte County Sheriff and Paradise P.D.
County: Butte County
Location: Pulga Road at Camp Creek Road near Jarbo Gap
Acres Burned - Containment: 105,000 acres - 20% contained
Structures Threatened: 15,000
Structures Destroyed: 6,453 residences, 260 commercial
Evacuations: View the latest Incident Update for current information on evacuations, evacuation centers, and road closures.

Evacuation centers:
Butte County:
Church of the Nazarene, 2238 Monte Vista Ave Oroville Ca. 95966;
Neighborhood Church, 2801 Notre Dame Blvd Chico, Ca.95928; Pleasant Valley
Baptist Church, 13539 Garner Ln, Chico, CA 95973
Pleasant Valley Baptist Church, 13539 Garner Lane, Chico, CA, 95973
Glenn County:
Glenn County Fairgrounds, 221 E. Yolo Street, Orland, CA 95963
Yuba County:
Yuba/Sutter County Fairgrounds, 442 Franklin Street, Yuba City, CA 95991
Plumas County: Veterans Memorial Hall, 225 Gay Street, Chester, CA

Animal evacuation centers:
Small Animals:
Del Oro Old County Hospital, 2279 Del Ord Drive, Orville, CA
Large Animal Shelter:
Butte County Fair Grounds, 199 E Hazel Street, Gridley, CA
Road Closures: SR70 at Pentz, SR70 @ Wheelock, SR70 at SR191, Durham Pentz East from 99, Neal Road East from 99, Skyway at Honey Run, SR149 SB off to SR70 EB, SR70 NB off to SR70 EB, SR70 at Cherokee, SR32 at Yosemite EB, Cherokee at Water Service Dirt Road, Skyway at Humboldt, Skyway at DeSable, Humboldt at Bruce, SR162 (Oro Quincy) at Forbestown Rd, Oro Quncy Hwy at Upper Bald Rock Rd, SR162 (Oro Quincy) at 4 Mile Ridge Rd / French Creek Rd, SR162 (Oro Quncy) at Stephens Ridge Rd (lower end), SR32 at Headwaters Rd, SR32 at Schott Rd
Injuries: 3
Cause: Under investigation
Cooperating Agencies: California Department of Transportation, California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, California Highway Patrol, California Office of Emergency Services, National Weather Service, United States Forest Service, California Conservation Corps, Butte County, City of Chico
Total Fire Personnel: 4,050
Total Fire Engines: 512
Total Fire Crews: 85
Total Helicopters: 23
Total Dozers: 79
Total Water Tenders: 18
Long/Lat: -121.434700/39.813400
Conditions: Today, fire crews actively engaged in rescue and firefighting operations. Fire crews continue structure defense and fire suppression in the areas with fire activity. Forecasted strong northeast winds, in combination with low relative humidity and dry fuel moistures will continue to produce extreme fire behavior including dangerous rates of spread, and long range spotting.

Small Animal: County Hospital at 2279 Del Oro and Mono, Suite E
Large Animal: Butte County Fairgrounds, 199 E Hazel St, Gridley, CA 95948
Phone Numbers (530) 538-7826 (Public Information Line )
Phone Numbers (530) 487-4788 (Camp Fire Media Line )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUW2NrA9S8

nothing like the play-by-play of rush in the background as these folks try to get out.


(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFz5WfFalGc)

[oldpotatoe]

Plenty of blame to go around, at the state and federal level https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article216160995.html

I have an idea, let's get the fires out, save lives and structures THEN tweet about who's to blame and who hates whom because they got criticized..and 'maybe' a few of the 5000 military helping to fight the fires instead of fighting the 'invasion'..that's still 1000 mies away..just a thought.

[wc1934]

Did you see the photos taken from space? Unbelievable.
Total destruction - so sad!

[joosttx]

Did you see the photos taken from space? Unbelievable.
Total destruction - so sad!

Can you post a link?

[OtayBW]

I have an idea, let's get the fires out, save lives and structures THEN tweet about who's to blame and who hates whom because they got criticized..and 'maybe' a few of the 5000 military helping to fight the fires instead of fighting the 'invasion'..that's still 1000 mies away..just a thought.Yup....

[Burnette]

Did you see the photos taken from space? Unbelievable.
Total destruction - so sad!

I saw the photos too and wow, it gave perspective of just how big and widespread the fires are. Agree, so sad, so many people involved, lives lost.

[MikeD]

I have an idea, let's get the fires out, save lives and structures THEN tweet about who's to blame and who hates whom because they got criticized..and 'maybe' a few of the 5000 military helping to fight the fires instead of fighting the 'invasion'..that's still 1000 mies away..just a thought.


Sounds good to me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[54ny77]

positive thoughts out to our forum friends who have been affected.

fires like that are no joke. just devastating. went thru one like that many years ago in cal, fire got within several hundred yards of family home. for those not too familiar with the effect, houses can literally explode from being near instantly superheated via close proximity. you're talking a massive wall of flame, sometimes a 100'+ high, traveling at a decent clip.

back in the early 90's, many of us experienced the oakland hills and so cal fires. terrible, terrible stuff. same thing just happened up in santa rosa recently.

[weisan]

https://www.space.com/42405-california-wildfires-satellite-photos-november-2018.html

https://img.purch.com/h/1400/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zcGFjZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMDAwLzA4MC 83MDEvb3JpZ2luYWwvY2FtcC1maXJlLmpwZw==

[Dino Suegiù]

I have an idea, let's get the fires out, save lives and structures THEN tweet about who's to blame and who hates whom because they got criticized..and 'maybe' a few of the 5000 military helping to fight the fires instead of fighting the 'invasion'..that's still 1000 mies away..just a thought.

Yes, thank you. A very sane idea.
Those certainly seem to be in such short supply sadly.

The firefighters must be so incredibly stressed and exhausted by now, but they keep going on. Just help them help everybody else.

[Dino Suegiù]

Did you see the photos taken from space? Unbelievable.
Total destruction - so sad!

Yes, unimaginable scale, and really terrifying images.
And then, the ground photos of the crews, against burning hills, trees, buildings, cars.

To see the two scales together is shocking, to know that the second is happening in many hundreds of places shown in the first, really underscores the extent and severity.

[echappist]

was reading this earlier. absolutely terrifying. basically a tornado of furnace blast....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2018/oct/10/climate-change-what-will-happen-hellfire-california-forest-fires

[joosttx]

Paul Components is reporting that Mitch Pryor of Map Cycles had to be evacuated and probably lost his home...


How you can help

https://www.chicoer.com/2018/11/10/how-you-can-help-camp-fire-victims/

[joosttx]

Taken at 1:15 today. We are over 150 miles away from the Camp Fire.


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4868/44920355565_6b24aa38dc_h.jpg

[pdmtong]

It's still really bad miles away.
Can't see anything - so much smoke
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181112/c90f6b7032419f8dfc37e99c82124606.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181112/ebf984e03585e7a04d4a01b22e30b75c.jpg

[kevinvc]

There are currently a couple thousand prison inmates, as well as youth offenders, fighting these fires. The adults are paid $2 a day and $1 an hour. The state has said they absolutely need the additional labor.

Once they complete their sentences, it will likely be impossible for them to get jobs as firefighters as almost all are closed to former convicts.

[MikeD]

They absolutely need a better alert system to get the word out to evacuate. Too many people are dying because they are getting out too late. Our friends in Napa during the Napa/Sonoma fires, heard from an an alert neighbor in the middle of the night, when the fire was way too close. My wife's friend from Paradise decided to get out when she heard what sounded like exploding propane tanks.

[joosttx]

You can barely see Mt Tam...

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1908/45850687911_0f34337dd6_h.jpg

[Drmojo]

They absolutely need a better alert system to get the word out to evacuate. Too many people are dying because they are getting out too late. Our friends in Napa during the Napa/Sonoma fires, heard from an an alert neighbor in the middle of the night, when the fire was way too close. My wife's friend from Paradise decided to get out when she heard what sounded like exploding propane tanks.

having just lived through the Napa/Sonoma fires I can tell you no “rapid response” system would have been adequate. Imagine flames travelling 50 mph or faster. The camp fire spread even faster.
Air quality is still very poor in large portions of the state. From Dunsmuir to SoCal.
Apocalyptic.
Containment estimate for Camp fire is Nov 30!!
Woolsey fire Nov 17...
And more fires are breaking out...

[oldpotatoe]

Has the potus declared these fires a disaster area? I guess he just did.
I just approved an expedited request for a Major Disaster Declaration for the State of California. Wanted to respond quickly in order to alleviate some of the incredible suffering going on. I am with you all the way. God Bless all of the victims and families affected.

:eek:+1000

[MikeD]

having just lived through the Napa/Sonoma fires I can tell you no “rapid response” system would have been adequate. Imagine flames travelling 50 mph or faster. The camp fire spread even faster.

Air quality is still very poor in large portions of the state. From Dunsmuir to SoCal.

Apocalyptic.

Containment estimate for Camp fire is Nov 30!!

Woolsey fire Nov 17...

And more fires are breaking out...



I disagree with that. A warning over your cell phone like those loud Amber alerts or a system of sirens throughout the area would be a start in at risk fire areas. Is there even a formal evacuation plan?

[smead]

I think many of the dead will be seniors, many of whom were incapacitated in one form or another. There are (were) many rest homes in paradise, and many retired seniors living alone. It is also a very poor community, so many of these folks may not have had transportation to get out whether ambulatory or not.

[Dino Suegiù]

I think many of the dead will be seniors, many of whom were incapacitated in one form or another. There are (were) many rest homes in paradise, and many retired seniors living alone. It is also a very poor community, so many of these folks may not have had transportation to get out whether ambulatory or not.

This is so incredibly sad to read, on top of all the other sadness. It is truly terrible to think of this. I hope that the points you raise become somehow better addressed in the future.

[joosttx]

I disagree with that. A warning over your cell phone like those loud Amber alerts or a system of sirens throughout the area would be a start in at risk fire areas. Is there even a formal evacuation plan?

A warning system may not help much with 50mph Fire stroms. But it will help some. IMO not having one is not an option.

[joosttx]

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4845/45865208851_38a7507856_h.jpg

[mjb266]

Serious question. Do folks foresee a "bunker" for fires similar to tornado shelters becoming a thing? Seems like if you could avoid falling trees/roofs, an asbestos lined crawl space would be an option.

Can't believe I'm even thinking about something like that...climate change is gonna be a...scratch that...is a b#$ch.

[pdmtong]

What is perhaps lost here, when compared to other terrible natural disasters like tornadoes or hurricanes, is the speed at which these fires (literally firestorms) progress. People literally had no time to react.

The fires make their own weather, and in combination with the winds, accelerate across the land at speeds not seen before.

Besides the obvious destruction, the heat melts the underground utilities and piping. Car batteries and other hazardous items melt into the ground affecting the water table. It's really really bad.

[Dino Suegiù]

Serious question. Do folks foresee a "bunker" for fires similar to tornado shelters becoming a thing? Seems like if you could avoid falling trees/roofs, an asbestos lined crawl space would be an option.

Can't believe I'm even thinking about something like that...climate change is gonna be a...scratch that...is a b#$ch.

I think the issue of getting a relatively long-term supply of clean oxygen and scrubbing out CO2, especially for a family, would be a major one for any individual bunker. These fires suck oxygen everywhere, and they last for hours, even days, as very high-danger zones. Plus, the long-lingering smoke-damage/extremely low air-quality all affecting breathable air terribly. A fire zone is really a hellish place to be, for any amount of time.

An enclosed, trapping, "fire bunker" would really not be a good place to be, I think; not like a tornado/hurricane environment and shelter at all.

[Keith A]

Just found out that some friends have multiple family members that lost their homes in the town of Paradise :mad:

[gemship]

How exactly do these fires start? Are people crazy enough to flick cigarette ashes for ex.?

[weaponsgrade]

Wife's co-worker lost his house in last year's Santa Rosa fire. He setup a shipping container on his property as a temporary living space and is still in it. I feel like the effects of climate change including heat and dryness has accelerated in the last 10 years or so. When I first moved out to the SF Bay area I remember multiple days of rain in the winter months and lots of fog in SF. Both seem to have decreased substantially - especially the rain.

[Dino Suegiù]

How exactly do these fires start? Are people crazy enough to flick cigarette ashes for ex.?
Definitely not only cigarettes, etc.

Apparently the Woolsey Fire started from a SoCal Edison generator spark?

All kinds of causes, from natural to mistakes/accidents to outright arson, I think.

[joosttx]

How exactly do these fires start? Are people crazy enough to flick cigarette ashes for ex.?

Funny I over the last couple of weeks I seen two people throw their lit butts out of cars. One, I said something to at the next stop light.

PG&E power equipment has been suspected...

https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/PG-E-stock-hammered-on-wildfire-fallout-13384830.php

This summer we had a fire in Marin which resulted from a squirrel touching the "3rd rail" of a powerline. I point this out simply to show how easy and innocent it seems to start a forest fire.

[mjb266]

How exactly do these fires start? Are people crazy enough to flick cigarette ashes for ex.?

A local meterologist has done real compelling writing on this. Seems like the power companies are culpable in some sense, especially after what they learned from previous fires.

http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2018/11/strong-diablosanta-ana-wind-initiate.html

http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2018/11/why-did-catastrophic-camp-fire-start.html

[pdmtong]

How exactly do these fires start? Are people crazy enough to flick cigarette ashes for ex.?

The fire in Santa Rosa/Napa last fall was started by a sparking utility transformer. The wind speeds were 75mph+. People went to bed normal time and were woken up to calls to evacuate NOW. Imagine someone wakes you at 2am from a dead sleep and you have to leave your house ASAP.

The fire in Redding in August was caused by a flat tire on a trailer - rim scraped the pavement and sparks ignited the inferno.

The fire source in Paradise is unknown - but there are early reports of utility transformer issues.

Meanwhile in Southern California the Thousand Oaks shooting is then compounded by 250,000 people evacuating same area.

Ignorant people can also do the damage - like the kids playing with fireworks in Oregon a year ago.

[joosttx]

The fire in Santa Rosa/Napa last fall was started by a sparking utility transformer. The wind speeds were 75mph+. People went to bed normal time and were woken up to calls to evacuate NOW. Imagine someone wakes you at 2am from a dead sleep and you have to leave your house ASAP.

The fire in Redding in August was caused by a flat tire on a trailer - rim scraped the pavement and sparks ignited the inferno.

The fire source in Paradise is unknown - but there are early reports of utility transformer issues.

Meanwhile in Southern California the Thousand Oaks shooting is then compounded by 250,000 people evacuating same area.

Ignorant people can also do the damage - like the kids playing with fireworks in Oregon a year ago.


I saw a Marin Water Works Truck park off of a trail in the dead grass today as I rode up Mt Tam. Could not help to think if the muffler was hot enough Mt Tam would be ablaze.

[false_Aest]

Pacific Coast Highway driving toward Malibu.

Not fun for riding.

[Spdntrxi]

I saw a Marin Water Works Truck park off of a trail in the dead grass today as I rode up Mt Tam. Could not help to think if the muffler was hot enough Mt Tam would be ablaze.

at least the muffler is off the ground a little higher.. more like one of cat converter would do it. Back in my rice rockets days.. many a lower car in dry grass could get it going... or in my case a straight pipe :)

[zennmotion]

A warning system may not help much with 50mph Fire stroms. But it will help some. IMO not having one is not an option.
I'm old enough to remember the daily testing of my small town's fire siren every day at noon- heard clearly at our house 3 miles away. Its purpose was to summon the all-volunteer firemen (and more than a few firewomen) to call in for instructions. It was simple, it was cheap and it worked well (amplified by the howls of every dog in the county). As a new resident to the Bay Area, perhaps because of my perspective due to my age (50 something) and background (East Coast rural) and life experience living and working extensively in developing countries where simple can still be effective, I sometimes think that there's a localized left coast, knee jerk reaction to reach for a technology innovation fix as the first and only solution to every problem encountered in life. In this case, cell phone apps and the like can't be the only way for an early warning system to work. Likewise, everyone who lives in a fire/earthquake/hurricane/whatever zone needs to keep a good local county map in the car and/or home and learn how to use a basic compass to read it for contingency planning. Power grids and cell towers fail. Roads get blocked unexpectedly.

[Jaybee]

Everyone who has lived in OK knows how the tornado sirens work. Tested every Saturday at noon. They aren’t perfect, but they would help.

[zennmotion]

Everyone who has lived in OK knows how the tornado sirens work. Tested every Saturday at noon. They aren’t perfect, but they would help.

As would a voluntary neighbor network, where everyone has a contact list of 5-10 neighborhood households to track and call for a check-in during emergencies, and your household contact information is in the hands of 2-3 neighbors. This is how I've seen some communities in conflict areas survive (stories I've heard from residents who survived Beirut under daily shelling for example).

[Drmojo]

These fires often start in semi remote areas
By the time Gale Force wind- imagine HUGE bellows-spreads to
inhabited areas- those threatened have only survival in
their minds. And many cell phone towers and electric towers are also
non functional. No tv, no cell network, no way to alert fast enough- that was the scenario in Napa and Sonoma last year—this year is far worse as firenadoes rushed at 50 mph plus.
Try out running a speeding car that is travelling that fast/and the occupants
of that car are throwing Molotov cocktails into very dry tinder
Hard to “sound the alarm”
Smoky in Cali

[pdmtong]

those threatened have only survival in
their minds. And many cell phone towers and electric towers are also
non functional. No tv, no cell network, no way to alert fast enough - that was the scenario in Napa and Sonoma last year—this year is far worse as firenadoes rushed at 50 mph plus.

from every account this sums it up. you get a call, a door knock, hear a siren or smell the smoke and you need to load up and leave. and leave NOW. it's without warning and immediate.

Our friends in Agoura Hills had a bit longer to contemplate what to take - but what are you going to take since it has to fit in or on your car. Yes, hard drive, documents, photos. Now what?

[smead]

Pacific Coast Highway driving toward Malibu.

Not fun for riding.

Poor baby.

"edit" and just to be clear, the bad smoke some of us are smelling is from charred bodies. C'mon folks, enough about how smoky it is and whaa I can't ride, there will be 100+ dead up here in the camp fire when it's all said and done.

[joosttx]

Yeah.., for those whining about not being able to ride for a day or two.., c'mon ..



Poor baby.

Trust me when I write everyone who has posted is aware of the severity of these fires in NorCal and SoCal. No one is bitching about not riding. Locals are posting pictures of the fires and how they are affecting them. It is personal, not sensational. These accounts give perspective to the magnitude to these fires.

The kids at children's school are packing backpacks full of basics for families who have lost everything. People (neighbors) are going around our neighborhood and gathering food and blankets for survivors. We have sent money to the Red Cross. So, ask yourself, by calling people whiners and poor babies is the best way YOU can help others in this horrible situation. And if you need to blow of steam go ride a bike instead of trolling people on the internet.....

Do the right thing.

[smead]

Trust me when I write everyone who has posted is aware of the severity of these fires in NorCal and SoCal. No one is bitching about not riding. Locals are posting pictures of the fires and how they are affecting them. It is personal, not sensational. These accounts give perspective to the magnitude to these fires.

The kids at children's school are packing backpacks full of basics for families who have lost everything. People (neighbors) are going around our neighborhood and gathering food and blankets for survivors. We have sent money to the Red Cross. So, ask yourself, by calling people whiners and poor babies is the best way YOU can help others in this horrible situation. And if you need to blow of steam go ride a bike instead of trolling people on the internet.....

Do the right thing.

"Not fun for riding" is what I responded to pal.

And all I've seen from you in the last several days is how smoky it is in your area.

[false_Aest]

Poor baby.

"edit" and just to be clear, the bad smoke some of us are smelling is from charred bodies. C'mon folks, enough about how smoky it is and whaa I can't ride, there will be 100+ dead up here in the camp fire when it's all said and done.


Hey bruh, sorry if that came off the wrong way. I wasn't complaining about not being able to ride, more noting that we're miles away from the fire line and seeing/smelling the effects.

There's some seriously serious and scary SH IT going on and not being able to ride doesn't even compare to a loss of home, pets, love ones, one's own life, etc. etc. etc.
----

[smead]

Hey bruh, sorry if that came off the wrong way. I wasn't complaining about not being able to ride, more noting that we're miles away from the fire line and seeing/smelling the effects.

There's some seriously serious and scary SH IT going on and not being able to ride doesn't even compare to a loss of home, pets, love ones, one's own life, etc. etc. etc.
----

Thx, understood, this is somewhat personal for me having lived in the area and knowing many who have lost their homes.

[Peter B]

Thx, understood, this is somewhat personal for me having lived in the area and knowing many who have lost their homes.

Has your Magalia house survived?

[Peter B]

This is the deadliest and most destructive fire in California recorded history. 48 souls are known to have lost their life. Over 200 are still missing.

Here are some current stats:

Incident Name: Camp, Butte County
State: CA
Lead Agency: CAL FIRE BTU
Size (acres): 128,798
Percent Contained: 30%
Estimate of Containment: Nov. 30, 2018
Personnel: 5,139
Structures Destroyed: 7,639



Structures Threatened: 15,500
Single Residences Destroyed: 6,522
Single Residences Damaged: 75
Multiple Residences Destroyed: 85
Commercial Destroyed: 260
Commercial Damaged: 32
Other Minor Structures Destroyed: 772

Down south the Woolsey fire continues to ravage; 97,114 acres - 40% contained, 2 souls and 435 homes known to be lost.

All in about a quarter of a MILLION people have been displaced by these fires. Please follow joosttx's lead and donate towards the survivors and recovery if possible either in spirit or in deed.

[m4rk540]

California residents moralizing to other California residents. This is a crisis.

I haven't been here my whole life so my perceptions may reflect that but in the past I haven't sensed the same level of empathy during major fires. Houses burning in so called fire zones and exclusive hillside communities. That kind of stuff is easy to intellectualize away or even victim blame. But I haven't witnessed any of that in the last two years. So, Peter B, I understand and share your disgust with POTUS and, smead, I understand how you may find some photos as lacking tact. The reality is that many of us are trying to process these disasters through our personal filters. This weekend was the first in my riding life where a natural disaster kept most of the obsessive, addicted cyclists I know at home. Armageddons are hard to ignore.

[Peter B]

California residents moralizing to other California residents. This is a crisis.

I haven't been here my whole life so my perceptions may reflect that but in the past I haven't sensed the same level of empathy during major fires. Houses burning in so called fire zones and exclusive hillside communities. That kind of stuff is easy to intellectualize away or even victim blame. But I haven't witnessed any of that in the last two years. So, Peter B, I understand and share your disgust with POTUS and, smead, I understand how you may find some photos as lacking tact. The reality is that many of us are trying to process these disasters through our personal filters. This weekend was the first in my riding life where a natural disaster kept most of the obsessive, addicted cyclists I know at home. Armageddons are hard to ignore.


One of my personal filters is the recent memory of the local sheriff driving down my dirt road announcing evacuation time as the VLATs were flying laps overhead and the smoke billowed up the river canyon towards my meager 640 sf cabin home and I scrambled to toss a few memories into my truck before driving away. Miraculously the local firefighters got on top of it and most of use dodged a very big bullet.

There's something about a personal experiential connection that amplifies the future response. I know smead spent many thousands of hours renovating a dream home that is now likely up in flames along with those of his former neighbors outside Paradise.

[smead]

While I understand this is a cycling forum, I guess I'm just finding it hard to understand how folks can lament about smoky skies and limited riding in the context of a thread that is about thousands losing their homes, and I'm sure it'll end up being over 100 losing their lives. As mentioned earlier, this fire is a bit different, and not just on a personal level. An entire town of 27,000 has been burned off the map. This is rather unprecedented.

With that said, a friend of mine in Paradise who lost his home did manage to throw his 3 road bikes in his truck before barreling down the hill. Not sure what his wife had to say about his decision about what to save / not save.

[fiamme red]

Paul Components is reporting that Mitch Pryor of Map Cycles had to be evacuated and probably lost his home...


How you can help

https://www.chicoer.com/2018/11/10/how-you-can-help-camp-fire-victims/For Mitch Pryor in particular: https://www.gofundme.com/keep-mitch-rolling.

[joosttx]

While I understand this is a cycling forum, I guess I'm just finding it hard to understand how folks can lament about smoky skies and limited riding in the context of a thread that is about thousands losing their homes, and I'm sure it'll end up being over 100 losing their lives. As mentioned earlier, this fire is a bit different, and not just on a personal level. An entire town of 27,000 has been burned off the map. This is rather unprecedented.

With that said, a friend of mine in Paradise who lost his home did manage to throw his 3 road bikes in his truck before barreling down the hill. Not sure what his wife had to say about his decision about what to save / not save.

I am sprry you losted a home and you know people who have lost so much by these fires.

Reporting about smokey skies 150 miles + away from the fire for almost five days is my attempt to show the magnitude of the Camp Fire-not to complain or lament. I cannot take picture of th fire directly because I am not there. I can only show the impact from my viewpoint.

I am deeply sorry that I caused more grief for you by snapping back at you and posting smokey air pictures. I will not do those things again out of respect for you.

[gasman]

I grew up in California in the 60’s and the 70’s. The magnitude of these fires are hard to comprehend and it feels so much like this may be the new normal. I’m saddened for everyone who lost their life, loved ones or property. The size of the Camp Fire is difficult to imagine but it has hit home here in a tiny way today some 400 miles away-smoke from the fire has moved into the Eugene area.
My heart goes out to all of you affected.

[Clean39T]

For Mitch Pryor in particular: https://www.gofundme.com/keep-mitch-rolling.

Has stopped accepting donations after reaching the $10K mark. Wow - went to chip in a few and was really surprised to see that - but also not - bike peeps are good peeps..

I saw Paul Components' post on IG today. Thinking about buying some gift-cards or something just to roll some cash their way too.

[MikeD]

Anyone using an N95 dust mask for riding / hiking? https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-N95-Paint-Sanding-Valved-Respirators-Masks-2-Pack-8511PA1-2A/202670465?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-202080141-_-202670465-_-N

I think it would be effective in filtering out smoke particles, but maybe uncomfortable to wear while riding. Thinking of trying it.

Update: tried this mask today hiking. Some discomfort from sweating, otherwise had no problems breathing. Probably do an easy ride tomorrow with it.

[smead]

I am sprry you losted a home and you know people who have lost so much by these fires.

Reporting about smokey skies 150 miles + away from the fire for almost five days is my attempt to show the magnitude of the Camp Fire-not to complain or lament. I cannot take picture of th fire directly because I am not there. I can only show the impact from my viewpoint.

I am deeply sorry that I caused more grief for you by snapping back at you and posting smokey air pictures. I will not do those things again out of respect for you.

Thanks, and for the record, I did not lose a home in this fire, although I easily could have had things worked out just a bit differently ... Am feeling for friends in the area who did, and of course for those who lost a lot more.

Frayed nerves and short fuses, including mine.

[54ny77]

buddy of mine sent a pic of the hills burning in his neck of the woods in outlying los angeles area. it is truly staggering, a wall of flame & smoke that rises seemingly miles high. his family was evacuated.

as i mentioned in a post above, those walls of flames are no joke. houses explode like popcorn from being superheated, in seconds. been there, experienced that in the early 90's in so cal.

positive thoughts to all. be safe.

[KarlC]

Looks like there is now another fire in So Ca .....

Sierra Fire: Fire breaks out near homes in Rialto area of San Bernardino County

https://www.10news.com/news/u-s-world/sierra-fire-fire-breaks-out-near-homes-in-rialto-area-of-san-bernardino-county

.

[benb]

With that said, a friend of mine in Paradise who lost his home did manage to throw his 3 road bikes in his truck before barreling down the hill. Not sure what his wife had to say about his decision about what to save / not save.

Not being in CA I don't have much perspective but if we were being told to evacuate and were told to go in our car I'd be throwing a bike for each family member onto the roof rack for sure. Not the fancy ones but something practical.

They'd come in real handy if we got trapped in a gridlock traffic jam with something like a fire bearing down on us. I'd rather ride out in smoke than walk or stay with the car.

[pdmtong]

I grew up in California in the 60’s and the 70’s. The magnitude of these fires are hard to comprehend and it feels so much like this may be the new normal.

I think we are all going on and on here because it is hard to comprehend. While people have either direct experience or an understanding of tornadoes, hurricanes, even earthquakes there has been nothing like the magnitude and speed and frequency of these fires in memory.

The Oakland Hills fires was devastating in it's home destruction. These fires are bringing destruction, death and cover a massive area.

I read somewhere the acreage burned over the past few years is larger than rhode island. I'll have to check the fats but you get the idea.

[pdmtong]

Not being in CA I don't have much perspective but if we were being told to evacuate and were told to go in our car I'd be throwing a bike for each family member onto the roof rack for sure. Not the fancy ones but something practical.
you would think, but in the santa rosa fire many folks reported they literally had minutes - the fire was on the ridge bearing down on them. Lets say you were asleep, get woken up, someone says you have 15 minutes...this is the impossibility of it all

[GOTHBROOKS]

power company knows theres a red flag wind event with low humidity.
they can preemptively kill the power so that any downed lines wont spark in dry brush and ignite. but if the powers off and the brush still ignites, how do you get a warning phone call/text message off to ppl in these mtn communities with garbage cell reception when theres no wifi?

[drewski]

There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/11/how-california-fire-catastrophe-unfolded/

[m4rk540]

One of my personal filters is the recent memory of the local sheriff driving down my dirt road announcing evacuation time as the VLATs were flying laps overhead and the smoke billowed up the river canyon towards my meager 640 sf cabin home and I scrambled to toss a few memories into my truck before driving away. Miraculously the local firefighters got on top of it and most of use dodged a very big bullet.

There's something about a personal experiential connection that amplifies the future response. I know smead spent many thousands of hours renovating a dream home that is now likely up in flames along with those of his former neighbors outside Paradise.

Maybe not the most appropriate phrase, but by personal filter I hope you know that I meant that when living hundreds or even tens of miles from a fire and not being personally impacted other than air quality once the shock of the numbers and images is processed people begin to wrap their minds around the magnitude in their own ways. As in, "I live 200 miles away and my car is covered with ashes. Yikes, maybe I shouldn't ride today." I'm not suggesting that false-aest or joostx are trying to represent that with their posts; however, for me those images are very tangible. I don't give a crap about losing a few days of riding but it does shock me that my riding partners who live 70 miles from the Woolsey fire stayed in for a few days. These guys NEVER take a day off, personal tragedy or otherwise. Being aware that the fires impact these people in the most trivial way makes me more aware of the true impact. Makes me think about the lives, the property, the pets. Keeps me from forgetting. And it would be easy, as the San Gabriel Mountains are beautiful today.

https://xappprod.aqmd.gov/aqdetail/AirQuality?AreaNumber=9

[MattTuck]

I read somewhere the acreage burned over the past few years is larger than rhode island. I'll have to check the fats but you get the idea.

I'm not sure if you've been to Rhode Island, but this statement is not that impressive.

That said, this is tragic, regardless of the size of the burned area.

[Clean39T]

power company knows theres a red flag wind event with low humidity.
they can preemptively kill the power so that any downed lines wont spark in dry brush and ignite. but if the powers off and the brush still ignites, how do you get a warning phone call/text message off to ppl in these mtn communities with garbage cell reception when theres no wifi?PG&E has been doing that, but there's a limit to how often they can before it becomes an issue of "sorry, you don't get power this year". There are tree-trimming standards to help prevent lines getting touched, it's just not enough. As of now, PG&E is on the verge of bankruptcy - reportedly...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[pdmtong]

I'm not sure if you've been to Rhode Island, but this statement is not that impressive. That said, this is tragic, regardless of the size of the burned area.

found it.

https://fox40.com/2018/11/12/these-are-the-astonishing-numbers-behind-the-california-wildfires/

rhode island...been through it on the Nor-easter once. thats the size claimed for this year alone. 1250+ miles2

[MikeD]

As of now, PG&E is on the verge of bankruptcy - reportedly...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


That remains to be seen https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/politics/amp/Legislature-passes-bill-to-help-protect-PG-E-from-13199141.php

Good article on the Paradise fire in terms of alerts, evacuation, and emergency plans https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11/13/camp-fire-paradise-residents-say-they-received-no-mass-cellphone-alerts-to-evacuate-or-to-warn-of-fires/

[FlashUNC]

power company knows theres a red flag wind event with low humidity.
they can preemptively kill the power so that any downed lines wont spark in dry brush and ignite. but if the powers off and the brush still ignites, how do you get a warning phone call/text message off to ppl in these mtn communities with garbage cell reception when theres no wifi?

The other complexity after turning off the grid is before powering it back up, they have to inspect and clear the entire network before kicking the juice back in.

So the powering down is fast, but the powering up is a nightmare.

[Louis]

This won't help folks with existing homes, but are people starting to build houses that are less likely to burn to the ground?

I suppose that drives up the initial cost, but would presumably lower your insurance rates.

[Clean39T]

That remains to be seen https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/politics/amp/Legislature-passes-bill-to-help-protect-PG-E-from-13199141.php



That article is a bit out of date, but it's still all speculation at this point:

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/pge-debt-drawdown-raises-concerns-of-potential-bankruptcy-filing-over-fire/542205/

[Clean39T]

The other complexity after turning off the grid is before powering it back up, they have to inspect and clear the entire network before kicking the juice back in.

So the powering down is fast, but the powering up is a nightmare.

True (...although not quite as bad as re-pressurizing the natural gas distribution network).

https://www.pge.com/en_US/safety/emergency-preparedness/natural-disaster/wildfires/public-safety-power-shutoff-notifications.page

Smart-grid technology should help here, but the more rural you get, the less that's a thing...

[Dino Suegiù]

This won't help folks with existing homes, but are people starting to build houses that are less likely to burn to the ground?

I suppose that drives up the initial cost, but would presumably lower your insurance rates.

Not "starting" at all; this kind of construction has been going on and evolving for millennia.

But, yes, in "modern" terms there is a significant sector that by necessity addresses these issues. One beautiful example among many is the house/studio the Canadian architect Barton Myers built for himself in the Santa Barbara, California fire zone. He has built many similar houses in that area, all beautiful.

1997:
Steel and concrete structure/cladding (no wood).
The house/studio/guest are separated into separate pavilions.
Rolling steel fire-doors completely cocoon/protect the structure when residents are away.
Rainwater collection pools on roofs and cisterns to cool/provide firefighting water.
External pools provide more water and cooling.
Surrounding landscape is responsibly maintained.
Access/egress routes are always clear.
This project has survived several events, relatively unscathed.

It's just responsible design, really.
If people insist on building all-wood Swiss chalet replicas in historical fire zones, with a forest of pine trees ten feet away, those structures are going to burn.


http://www.bartonmyers.com/toro_01.htm

Good video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L33we8YJWpQ

http://www.bartonmyers.com/images/TORO_02.jpg
http://www.bartonmyers.com/images/TORO_03.jpg
http://www.bartonmyers.com/images/TORO_09.jpg

[m4rk540]

If building codes required those types of structures, then places like Paradise would have 1/20th the population. For better or worse.

Composite roofing has probably saved thousands of homes in California over the last 30 years.

[Tony]

This won't help folks with existing homes, but are people starting to build houses that are less likely to burn to the ground?

I suppose that drives up the initial cost, but would presumably lower your insurance rates.

I have the same question. Lots of these homes have wood siding. Ember resistant exterior like stucco, brick, or metal siding...much better. I've seen many homes with spanish style roofs, these can be real bad, cracks and openings in the tile make it easy for the wind to drive embers inside the attic. Fire rated roofing materials should be a must in areas at risk of fire.

[MikeD]

If building codes required those types of structures, then places like Paradise would have 1/20th the population. For better or worse.



Composite roofing has probably saved thousands of homes in California over the last 30 years.


I'm still befuddled and disturbed as to how Coffey Park in Santa Rosa (an urban housing development) burned down last year, being far from any significant combustible vegetation. An article I just read partly blamed building codes because the more stringent wildland fire codes were not applied. Coffey Park was not designated as within an at risk fire area (it is now). The article said that something as simple as screens over attic vents could keep blowing embers out of a house and prevent a fire.

[pdmtong]

I'm still befuddled and disturbed as to how Coffey Park in Santa Rosa (an urban housing development) burned down last year, being far from any significant combustible vegetation. An article I just read partly blamed building codes because the more stringent wildland fire codes were not applied. Coffey Park was not designated as within an at risk fire area (it is now). The article said that something as simple as screens over attic vents could keep blowing embers out of a house and prevent a fire.

the windspeed was off the chart and blew embers further and faster than anyone could imagine. the fire leapt across six lanes of 101
I drive up 101 a few weeks after - it was so strange to see on both sides of the freeway some pockets of burned out nothing and other pockets intact no impact. it must have been hell that night - super heated air, embers blowing wildly. it wasnt a slow crawl fire consuming things as it got to the next fuel - it had the wind accelerating the fire in the air to places it should never have reached if left to solely advancing on the ground.

[srcarter]

I'm not sure if you've been to Rhode Island, but this statement is not that impressive.

That said, this is tragic, regardless of the size of the burned area.

Rhode island, if perfectly square, would be about 35 miles on a side. If you drove 35 miles through a fire-ravaged landscape, I think it would be very impressive. Driving through some past burn areas in CA that are far smaller has been pretty shocking. That is a massive area to burn.

[MattTuck]

Rhode island, if perfectly square, would be about 35 miles on a side. If you drove 35 miles through a fire-ravaged landscape, I think it would be very impressive. Driving through some past burn areas in CA that are far smaller has been pretty shocking. That is a massive area to burn.

To me, the proximity to population is the remarkable thing about these fires. For a state as big as California, with a predisposition toward drought, losing less than 1% to fire is not a surprise. More than 1% of Montana's land area burned last year, but got much less coverage than the CA fires.

If a state the size of Massachusetts lost an area the size of Rhode Island to fire, then yes, that would be crazy as a percentage of the total.

In any event, PG&E looks to have dodged a bullet with regards to liability... atleast for the time being.

[fiamme red]

Has stopped accepting donations after reaching the $10K mark. Wow - went to chip in a few and was really surprised to see that - but also not - bike peeps are good peeps..

I saw Paul Components' post on IG today. Thinking about buying some gift-cards or something just to roll some cash their way too.Now reopened: https://www.gofundme.com/keep-mitch-rolling.

**UPDATE**

After reaching our personal goal for Mitch of $10,000 we were still getting overwhelmed with requests to continue support. All donations raised from 10k on will go directly to Camp Fire relief organizations Mitch knows in his area and deems worthy. More details on the specific organizations to follow.

[Dino Suegiù]

It is truly sad and surreal that some here are arguing over "not that impressive" comparative-size burn areas, proportions, and other inane statistics, when the only truly meaningful numbers are, as of November 16, 2018:

The missing persons count from the Camp fire alone currently stands at over 600, and is rising.
The novovirus, etc. count in Butte County alone currently stands at 145, and is rising.
The statewide death toll currently stands at 66, and is rising.
Photographs now show coroners as much as they do fire-fighters.

[joosttx]

Dynaplug is selling their racer plug with a special design where $40 of the $45 it costs will go to fire victims of the Camp Fire....

http://www.dynaplug.com/californialove
___________

[Peter B]

It is truly sad and surreal that some here are arguing over "not that impressive" comparative-size burn areas, proportions, and other inane statistics, when the only truly meaningful numbers are, as of November 16, 2018:

The missing persons count from the Camp fire alone currently stands at over 600, and is rising.
The novovirus, etc. count in Butte County alone currently stands at 145, and is rising.
The statewide death toll currently stands at 66, and is rising.
Photographs now show coroners as much as they do fire-fighters.


The relevant statistics tonight:

71 souls deceased
1,011 missing persons
149,511 acres scorched
5,596 personnel fighting the fire
9,700 single family homes destroyed
336 commercial structures destroyed
Tens of thousands now homeless with winter upon us in a county with effectively 0% vacancy rate BEFORE this fire

As we head into the Thanksgiving holiday please consider offering some support for all those who's lives have been uprooted by this disaster.

Here's a list of local agencies working to help folks affected:

https://www.redding.com/story/news/local/2018/11/09/camp-fire-how-you-can-help-victims/1942862002/

[marciero]

It is truly sad and surreal that some here are arguing... ]

As has been said, we are all just processing, trying to grasp the magnitude and gravity.

The relevant statistics tonight:

71 souls deceased
1,011 missing persons
149,511 acres scorched
5,596 personnel fighting the fire
9,700 single family homes destroyed
336 commercial structures destroyed
Tens of thousands now homeless with winter upon us in a county with effectively 0% vacancy rate BEFORE this fire



Hard not to assume the worst for most of the missing. Staggering and tragic.

[joosttx]

As has been said, we are all just processing, trying to grasp the magnitude and gravity.



Hard not to assume the worst for most of the missing. Staggering and tragic.

On a positive note (if any). The agency in charge of creating the mssing persons list admitted that they grossly err’ed on the side of false positives. They did this because they wanted the lists out instead holding them to get them more accurate. So, hopefully the number will be less.

[Peter B]

Sorry for the smoke...

A poem Krystalynn Martin wrote the other night while grieving the loss of her hometown of Paradise:


I'm sorry – Please excuse the smoke.
It's just the dreams and hopes of 27 thousand yesterdays.
It's just the minuscule evidence of
That one baby picture,
That painting of the sea captain by my brother,
And those family portraits of the past 40 years.
It's just the piano from my grandmother who passed away years ago that my brother just brought back from Iowa.

Excuse the hazardous air quality.
It's just the thousands of saved kid's drawings and crafts, books, children's toys from years gone by that had been unpacked for grandchildren, wedding certificates, diaries, the favorite pillows, that favorite teddy bear from baby years, the 1960s records and the VHS tapes of birthday parties and graduations.

It's just the houses of my childhood friends where we would play in the late summer evenings and spend nights dreaming of what our grownup years would bring. Not knowing that our futures would all hold this moment in time as our collective yesterdays ascend to the sky.

Please excuse the falling ash.
It's just the church where I grew up attending with all the children's songs, VBS programs and the baptismal where I chose to dedicate my life to God. It's just the aisle where I stood and looked at the man on the day that I said "I Do".

The falling ash – It's just Paradise.
A little non-destination town that's not on the way to anything important. It's just that end-of-the-road town where people settle and know each other and roots run deep. It's just a place where the biggest news was that Taco Bell came to town 20 years ago – until Starbucks finally made it 4 months ago.

Paradise – it's just the place where everyone is your neighbor, as backyards are shared and simple icons are known and loved. Icons that are now ashes falling around you (sorry about that).
Icons like Fosters Freeze.
Gold Nugget Days.
Honey Run Road Covered Bridge.
That one antique store, just to name a few.
Icons like Kalico Kitchen where my dad and I had breakfast on the day of my wedding, just the two of us.
Icons like Darlene's Frozen Yogurt and Round Table Pizza where many birthday parties growing up took place, not to mention the take home pizzas to mom and dad on weekends we would visit.
Personal icons like the Lucas's house where many days and nights were spent as we grew up from toddlers, to grade school, to junior high, taking care of animals, watching movies, going trick-r-treating, and discovering our first crushes together.
Icons like the Muth house, where we made brownies and talked about boys and got ready for banquets and wrote songs, and led out in different high school student leadership opportunities.
Icons like the youth room at the church where we discovered so many amazing things together and planned mission trips and prayer conferences and learned what it meant to be used by God right here and right now.
Icons like Rincon Way house where we would watch different phases of our family's life every year as we gathered for potlucks, game nights or just hear some good music.
Or Country Club where huge gatherings would take place like the 4th of July party for the neighborhood, or just coming together for brunch, or talking about religion and politics.
Or Peterson's house where we would eat the most delicious Swedish treats and have a visit from Santa.
Or all the houses around town that we lived in since age 2, (that are now all gone) and finally settling on what would become home: Boquest Blvd. Boquest, where breakfast was late, like nights, and eras of my life passed within those 4 walls – from preteen, to high school, and as the walls of my room changed their decor as they held my changing eras like a quiet, constant friend. The early mornings getting ready for school, the late nights studying or dreaming of tomorrows that are now todays. The Christmas eves and mornings where my brother would wake me up to go open our stockings. The night I spent in that room with my sister before the day of my wedding, our conversations waning into the early morning. The years and eras fleeting now in hindsight, as most recently these four walls had been a refuge for my aging parents. And not knowing that 1 month ago would be my final farewell to my constant silent friend – my room – where I spent a few nights with my infant son as we cherished time with family.
Icons like Billie Park where I would go on hikes with my friends as a preteen and teen, and then later take my hubby as we dreamt of the future, and then most recently would take my own 2 children to play and romp and just be...in Paradise.

... And not to mention all the lives that were lost: mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, grandparents, beloved pets ...

But please, once again, excuse our smoke.

It's just what's left of what was one of the most unique little settlements in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada Mountains: what was Paradise.

[Drmojo]

Thanks for this Pete. It had me in tears.
Puts this devastion in perspective.
Unimaginable tragedy

[joosttx]

Thanks for this Pete. It had me in tears.
Puts this devastion in perspective.
Unimaginable tragedy

So tragic. Powerful stuff

[Hawker]

Thanks for that Peter. Very sorry for your loss, all the best as you proceed with your future.

[Dino Suegiù]

87 dead and 600+ still missing, even after so many days.

Completely horrific and sad, on so many levels.

[572cv]

It's a long way from here to there, but we have family in NoCal. It is an horrific situation, with long term consequences for so many. We're deeply concerned and sympathetic.

This article describes a bit of an out of the box approach to a more hopeful outcome of a wildfire. At least, that is how I take it.

https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/built-to-burn/

I sincerely hope people will be able to rebuild their lives and places for the long term.

[MattTuck]

I'm not sure if you've been to Rhode Island, but this statement is not that impressive.

That said, this is tragic, regardless of the size of the burned area.

It is truly sad and surreal that some here are arguing over "not that impressive" comparative-size burn areas, proportions, and other inane statistics, when the only truly meaningful numbers are, as of November 16, 2018:

The missing persons count from the Camp fire alone currently stands at over 600, and is rising.
The novovirus, etc. count in Butte County alone currently stands at 145, and is rising.
The statewide death toll currently stands at 66, and is rising.
Photographs now show coroners as much as they do fire-fighters.


In re-reading my original post, I agree that it sounds callous. At the time, I was trying to make a light hearted dig at Rhode Island, and highlight the fact that acreage burned is a poor measure of a fire's impact -- much as you noted Dino.

Sometimes in the rush of the day, when you're trying to share an opinion on here, between all the distractions and requirements of real life, the idea you're trying to convey doesn't come through, or the tone intended doesn't translate. And in this case, it was not a point worth making, and most definitely was not the time for levity.

To anyone who read my post and thought it tone deaf, offensive or inappropriate, I agree -- and I'm sorry that I posted it.

[pdmtong]

In re-reading my original post, I agree that it sounds callous. At the time, I was trying to make a light hearted dig at Rhode Island, and highlight the fact that acreage burned is a poor measure of a fire's impact -- much as you noted Dino.



Sometimes in the rush of the day, when you're trying to share an opinion on here, between all the distractions and requirements of real life, the idea you're trying to convey doesn't come through, or the tone intended doesn't translate. And in this case, it was not a point worth making, and most definitely was not the time for levity.



To anyone who read my post and thought it tone deaf, offensive or inappropriate, I agree -- and I'm sorry that I posted it.

Thanks matt

unless seeing it everyday in the paper or perhaps knowing someone affected or smelling it in the air it's hard to imagine the terror suddenness and ferocity of the disaster. On the east coast it's probably page 8. But here it's in our face every day because it is horrible.

As I've said before. Unlike tornado hurricane or flood. You are asleep everything ok and suddenly you have five minutes if that to leave your home. And if you make it you are now living in your car with only the clothes on your back. Everything material in your life is now gone

[bigbill]

I was at my sister's house for thanksgiving. She her family live at Lake Arrowhead and the whole time I was there, I kept thinking about similar communities that are now foundations and ashes. Driving those roads, I just couldn't imagine driving the twists and turns with everything on fire. They have a house near Thousand Oaks but it's unharmed.

[Dino Suegiù]

In re-reading my original post, I agree that it sounds callous. At the time, I was trying to make a light hearted dig at Rhode Island, and highlight the fact that acreage burned is a poor measure of a fire's impact -- much as you noted Dino.

Sometimes in the rush of the day, when you're trying to share an opinion on here, between all the distractions and requirements of real life, the idea you're trying to convey doesn't come through, or the tone intended doesn't translate. And in this case, it was not a point worth making, and most definitely was not the time for levity.

To anyone who read my post and thought it tone deaf, offensive or inappropriate, I agree -- and I'm sorry that I posted it.

Duly noted and very definitely appreciated.

Thank you for the kind, classy, and considered communication to, and for, all.

[Ken Robb]

I was at my sister's house for thanksgiving. She her family live at Lake Arrowhead and the whole time I was there, I kept thinking about similar communities that are now foundations and ashes. Driving those roads, I just couldn't imagine driving the twists and turns with everything on fire. They have a house near Thousand Oaks but it's unharmed.
in the Summer of 2017 we rented a house on Big Bear Lake. A fire broke out a few miles away across the lake. It wasn't coming our way but it might have with a shift in the winds so we packed up and went home the next morning because we didn't want to risk trying to join the unavoidable traffic jam on the same roads that feed Lake Arrowhead communities if there was a mass evacuation. One week's rent for 12 hours in the rental house was a pretty expensive overnight but leaving was the right thing to do.

[fiamme red]

California Says PG&E Power Lines Caused Camp Fire That Killed 85 (New York Times) (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/15/business/energy-environment/pge-camp-fire-california.html) :eek:

[Clean39T]

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/PG-E-power-lines-have-long-been-the-leading-13848463.php

For those who've already read their two free articles for May...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Steve in SLO]

And here’s the new plan:
https://www.pge.com/en_US/safety/emergency-preparedness/natural-disaster/wildfires/public-safety-power-shutoff-faq.page

Shutting off power to areas that are at high-risk of wildfires during dangerous conditions. Outages could last for days, according to the website. Residents are advised to have a “plan” For the outages.

[54ny77]

CA a third world power grid. Who knew? :p

[notsew]

And here’s the new plan:
https://www.pge.com/en_US/safety/emergency-preparedness/natural-disaster/wildfires/public-safety-power-shutoff-faq.page

Shutting off power to areas that are at high-risk of wildfires during dangerous conditions. Outages could last for days, according to the website. Residents are advised to have a “plan” For the outages.

I mean, they kind of have to, right? Even a perfectly maintained transmission line is subject to vegetation and unforeseen weather stresses. The only thing they can do to limit future liability is turn the thing off.

[FlashUNC]

I mean, they kind of have to, right? Even a perfectly maintained transmission line is subject to vegetation and unforeseen weather stresses. The only thing they can do to limit future liability is turn the thing off.

They could better maintain their network, but I can understand shutting down the grid for extreme circumstances.

Reality of the Wine Country and Camp Fires though is both weather events happened pretty quickly.

I just generally have little faith in PG&E to get any of this right.

[Davist]

CA a third world power grid. Who knew? :p

Or maybe "USA a litigious society. We all knew"

The price of putting distribution lines underground is astronomical and they have a huge territory served, they're already on the hook for what? $30B or something? Overhead distribution, wind, tree limbs falling, etc can all lead to an outage and a potential arc which in an area that doesn't get rain from St Patrick's day to Thanksgiving is a tinderbox. I lived and worked in NorCal in the electrical industry during the 90s.

I don't see another choice for them. I'm amazed the Enron stuff didn't sink them (electricity wholesale price +800% or so IIRC and spot buys way above that)

[CunegoFan]

California Says PG&E Power Lines Caused Camp Fire That Killed 85 (New York Times) (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/15/business/energy-environment/pge-camp-fire-california.html) :eek:

California is hardly going to conclude it was at fault for not setting rates high enough to fund adequate maintenance.

[joosttx]

California is hardly going to conclude it was at fault for not setting rates high enough to fund adequate maintenance.

PG&E is / was / probably will be a poorly run company. During their last bankruptcy the CFO after spending an hour ordering lunch for the bankers told them “I didn’t sign up for this” . One bankers replied, “for $600K per year, the sure the F&$% you did.”

In Grad School the overarching environmental policy be pushed was “let things be” . It was good for the environmental groups and companies like PGE since it
meant they had to do / spend nothing to protect natural and Human Resources . This policy philosophy has failed.