Internal vs external cable route

[zmalwo]

Am I the only one who religiously likes external cable routing frames? I don't find exposed cables ugly at all. I had a Trek madone 9 once and it was a nightmare to change the FD cable. I still like my 2009 Pinarello Prince better than every newer bikes I have.

[oldpotatoe]

Am I the only one who religiously likes external cable routing frames? I don't find exposed cables ugly at all. I had a Trek madone 9 once and it was a nightmare to change the FD cable. I still like my 2009 Pinarello Prince better than every newer bikes I have.

Another answer to a not asked question. Solves no problem, answers no question to have internal anything, cable/housing/hose wise. Marketeers will point to the 'clean' look of all the crap disappearing and yell wind tunnel numbers..which mean just about nada cuz there isn't a person on the bike.

The trek assembly manual for the Mad-One is 32 pages. And RIM brakes..:eek:

[rePhil]

In my world there are plenty of great choices that have external routing, round seat posts with a traditional clamp, threaded bottom brackets,rim brakes and most importantly fit and ride well. I know them as Look 585's.

Some modern frames (like that Trek) look to be real nightmares when it comes to builds / maintenance

[choke]

Am I the only one who religiously likes external cable routing frames? I don't find exposed cables ugly at all.You're not alone. And I actually find frames with full internal cable routing to be more ugly....they just look wrong to my eyes.

[echappist]

Another answer to a not asked question. Solves no problem, answers no question to have internal anything, cable/housing/hose wise. Marketeers will point to the 'clean' look of all the crap disappearing and yell wind tunnel numbers..which mean just about nada cuz there isn't a person on the bike.

The trek assembly manual for the Mad-One is 32 pages. And RIM brakes..:eek:

I would respectfully disagree. The presence of a rider does not detract from the cleanliness of the front end, so the saving is still there.

Most of the issue with internal routing can be rendered moot by using electronic shifting. No need to fiddle with shifting once it's set.

[Tony T]

I don't mind external routing, but I do like the brake cable internal on the top tube.

[johnniecakes]

I prefer external routing, easier to work on and the cables don't rattle inside the tubes. But I was very glad to see the shifter cables go under the handlebar tape.

[Bradford]

I always prefer simple to complicated. I'm all for the wireless stuff, but if I'm going to have wires, I want them to be easy to install, designed for effectiveness and not looks, and easy to maintain/repair.

I built two bikes in 2017 and used 6603 on both of them because of the utility to price ratio. But it doesn't hurt that I've always like the way the wires come out of the shifters and gracefully loop down.

[mktng]

i prefer external for the majority of my bikes.
if done right, not only design from factory, but install. It can look super nice.

as for my more future forward bikes. internal does have its benefits. for example. if i ever decide to go electronic on my carbon bike. its nice to know that i can without having cable stops just hanging out with no purpose.

[EliteVelo]

I don't mind external routing, but I do like the brake cable internal on the top tube.

Agreed.....I see no problem with an internal routed brake cable.

[zmalwo]

Agreed.....I see no problem with an internal routed brake cable.

Yes, I don't mind rear brake cable internally routed. I think it's better internal too.

[redir]

Internal = PIA
External = Done in 10 minutes.

[jtbadge]

A lot of dismissive posts in here, which isn't surprising, I guess - but most bikes with internal routing don't have good internal routing.

Which is, to say, either a guide directing your housing in and out of the frame, or a full run tubing. My All-City Nature Boy and Space Horse, along with my Merckx MX Leader, had/have guides for the brake cable through the top tube. It literally takes seconds to rout, compared to minutes it would take to cut/trim cables for stops on each end.

My Thrive also has full internal cable routing, but he fed a brass tube all the way through the top tube (for the brake) and downtube (for the derailleur cables) and brazed it in place. Super clean, also super easy to install. And no rattling on either version.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/663/31215391460_4d02ecabcb_z.jpg

[brewsmith]

I prefer external for most cables, but internal routing for the rear brake through the top tube because it does make the bike easier to grab and protects the paint from cable rub. However, it has to have stops rather than full housing, as I've found even with using compressionless housing, the rear brake gets squishy with that much housing in the run.

[coreyaugustus]

Internal cabling is sexy. I don't really see any obvious and noticeable performance or functional gains from it at my level, but it just looks sexy and clean and as such, I'll even take a couple ounces weight penalty for having it.

[benadrian]

I never thought about internal routing until I ended up with a bike that had it. Yeah, I like the look.

However, wrenching on it was annoying for the few times I've had to do stuff to cabling. I didn't even have to unthread the cables. I'm just used to being able to unhook the brake cables and then pull the housing off of cable stops.

So my future looks like this:
Internal cabling on my carbon road bikes. Pay a mechanic when I need to swap cables every couple years or so.
External cabling on my AL or steel utilitarian/commuter bikes where I wrench on everything myself.

Cheers!
Ben

[bikinchris]

I agree with JTBadge. VERY few modern frames have GOOD internal routing. Stop it. Quit making frames with stupid routing. It makes maintenance a nightmare. I would never buy such a thing for my own bike.

[muz]

Rear derailleur cable broke on my friend's bike 150 miles into a double century. It was the hottest day on record and we were close to the cutoff. The mechanic at the rest stop couldn't figure out how to route the internal cable, so his day was done. It didn't take him long to figure it out the next day, once his brain was functioning.

[macaroon]

Depends on the bike really. A steel road racing frame looks and probably works better with external routing.

Carbon winter/gravel bike, then internal is way better as it keeps things a bit better protected and makes the bike easier to clean.

[mcteague]

Mechanical shifting -> external cables
Electronic shifting -> internal wires

Not that I have ever had electronic stuff mind you. My old Spectrum ti had an internal rear brake cable and my knee rubbed the cable, where it entered the top tube, sometimes when climbing standing up. It looked cool though.

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

I would respectfully disagree. The presence of a rider does not detract from the cleanliness of the front end, so the saving is still there.

Most of the issue with internal routing can be rendered moot by using electronic shifting. No need to fiddle with shifting once it's set.

Righto..those little pieces 4 or 5mm housing add so much to the overall drag of the bike. :eek:

[Bob Ross]

Internal cabling is sexy.

We can hang.

[eddief]

to diagnose cable tension issues on the road with internal routing. more than once people have asked me to diagnose crappy shifting while stopped on the road. then i look at the bike and say you have no access to the naked cable. one of the reasons i bought my lower grade domane was external routing and trad. seat post.

[echappist]

Righto..those little pieces 4 or 5mm housing add so much to the overall drag of the bike. :eek:

depends on where that housing is

a foil section and a housing produces the same amount of drag. So unless if the housing is well shielding (e.g. placed in front of a frame section), exposed housing will increase drag

https://owgckw.by.files.1drv.com/y4m5_bPYl-PkjsO5GIhowUVBYRBtTAasbKzJ2s-gOTp_jUSAQj47W4Yv2xZMfh0QZh8Av2IFLXlz-pTTCFIu5vzudfRlPjQdZJsCV0MBV5ZQRW9nqE0rXyheknP9SwT I4dDLefsGGMFCg31JQ6d7DyKn5Yrs1g45HoPlTuDNn-LCKbx2snwwILVGyEI73D27VurNjmNBZbBltqkoQ-jdbv0KQ?width=660&height=371&cropmode=none
https://owebhw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mtCkyUyPGexitI6cr9YThzs3gsQmeoENHQ0ptQjnJl047BAV ck1Vv2Enn979FUEEgMQJgr93KxraES7lPPrjWi22wPg6k4SOc2 XY1WdKx9W1eUY1RrKWrSB1SnUQYS9W3LTdlCD9imizszjlPWDK kdzZ5Pztv_NSUbH1a9Q0IE4cahCKy0jwujS1jFBKBK4QZKoO1S 56-OpPTGl9K1QX8qQ?width=660&height=371&cropmode=none

[oldpotatoe]

depends on where that housing is

a foil section and a housing produces the same amount of drag. So unless if the housing is well shielding (e.g. placed in front of a frame section), [B]exposed housing will increase drag

Not saying that those wee pieces of housing don't increase 'drag' but how much? I'm a-guessing not much but enough to include in ad copy..:)

[Gummee]

Another answer to a not asked question. Solves no problem, answers no question to have internal anything, cable/housing/hose wise. Marketeers will point to the 'clean' look of all the crap disappearing and yell wind tunnel numbers..which mean just about nada cuz there isn't a person on the bike.

The trek assembly manual for the Mad-One is 32 pages. And RIM brakes..:eek:

I built one of the first ones ordered. Came as a frame, customer put his own bits on it.

Took 3 (three!) days of head scratching, trying something, head scratching some more, calling Trek, trying something else, repeat.

The manual wasn't especially helpful.

All I can say was 'thank doG it was Di2!'

M

[Gummee]

I agree with JTBadge. VERY few modern frames have GOOD internal routing. Stop it. Quit making frames with stupid routing. It makes maintenance a nightmare. I would never buy such a thing for my own bike.

Unfortunately, sometimes you find out the hard way...

BTDT

M

[echappist]

Not saying that those wee pieces of housing don't increase 'drag' but how much? I'm a-guessing not much but enough to include in ad copy..:)

you are right, it's not significant in the grand scheme of things, and it is by definition marginal. i'd say on the order of 5-10W (and that's for cumulative for all housing exposed) at 30mph.

except if one were to accept that 5-10W at 30mph is trivial, then one must also discount the aero benefits of deep section wheels, for a front wheel saves ~9W at 30 mph, with the rear contributing another 3-5W.

I built one of the first ones ordered. Came as a frame, customer put his own bits on it.

Took 3 (three!) days of head scratching, trying something, head scratching some more, calling Trek, trying something else, repeat.

The manual wasn't especially helpful.

All I can say was 'thank doG it was Di2!'

M

do you work at Spokes Etc by chance?

[Gummee]

do you work at Spokes Etc by chance?

Nope. That shop is out in Warrenton.

Nowadays, they come more assembled. Doesn't take nearly as long to build em. ...and being the first of that style of bike, didn't help.

Getting the spacers on the headset right took a bit of fiddling. They'd want to move around and the halves unhooked every time I tried to center the stem.

M

[echappist]

Nope. That shop is out in Warrenton.

Nowadays, they come more assembled. Doesn't take nearly as long to build em. ...and being the first of that style of bike, didn't help.

Getting the spacers on the headset right took a bit of fiddling. They'd want to move around and the halves unhooked every time I tried to center the stem.

M

Gotcha

I used to live in Northern VA and went to Spokes quite often

My TT bike, which has a very clean front end (a very short section of exposed brake housing btwn basebar and brake and no exposed Di2 cable until BB), took a veritable 40 hours to build, and it was Di2. The rear brake housing and the Di2 cables on that bike are actually routed through an opening in the steer tube and then down into the frame. A lot of choice words used during that build.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's my current road bike. Front end isn't so clean, as i'm waiting to buy a Tririg Omega center pull brake. It's actually very easy to work on this bike, as it has Di2.

https://oggnta.by.files.1drv.com/y4mIyLTMDVtWbHgrLKwi0UDVDYPpsB5LWVvgdSQSo864yZo5uQ y5vg6lwEDFgpMrBe7ir5SuxhAW0IWBtci1WNC3iZOr9TOsMXyx 4RH4IY1G7_7C_eiY34H0JMEmDi8Tn6H8-oAJXLleus8q0o9VSh4rCjjgsu99T42VIavREDH81KJz0kT4EHI uedX-sQqr7joSqU3hnZ5_AvQlDqnQrMDAA?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

https://ogfeqg.by.files.1drv.com/y4myqrfoQktmoh1gAHWqatKNpZiOD2Dl5W27dP-dfF4ogWJmzk0AjxsglsC8Kk6eounK835ZFxq5epujgAq5Wp73E LU0VmR-r4DKsiYnW_1ZGCjIJY2QC3ciVtNoxKxUpEErKfz_mGYcuCW7Gf p71z9W3zzfY3KP3MOJIzWSKovlFkeQyXJgm3Y6epR43Sbb4Siw ZEoCE1ZgwMzUV1RhK1ioQ?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

[oldpotatoe]

you are right, it's not significant in the grand scheme of things, and it is by definition marginal. i'd say on the order of 5-10W (and that's for cumulative for all housing exposed) at 30mph.

except if one were to accept that 5-10W at 30mph is trivial, then one must also discount the aero benefits of deep section wheels, for a front wheel saves ~9W at 30 mph, with the rear contributing another 3-5W.


do you work at Spokes Etc by chance?

I get it, those watts add up..to say about 17-20 watts:eek:..I 'guess' something for a pro but this sort of stuff is firmly entrenched by the marketeeers for the "winning on sunday to be selling on monday" gig...

I remember one choice piece of copy by those boys and girls..talking about 'RTC' bar ends..return to center and how they are so much more aero...yup...funny.

[echappist]

I get it, those watts add up..to say about 17-20 watts:eek:..I 'guess' something for a pro but this sort of stuff is firmly entrenched by the marketeeers for the "winning on sunday to be selling on monday" gig...

I remember one choice piece of copy by those boys and girls..talking about 'RTC' bar ends..return to center and how they are so much more aero...yup...funny.

hahaha, yep, the Zipp RTC bar end shifters. Apparently some of the most flimsy ever made

we should all just be honest and say that the aesthetics count for more than the actual aero benefits :)

i actively go search for every last gram of aero savings, as I'm not that big of a guy and have to duke it out against people 3-6 inches taller, with power that's 30-50W greater for the same time period

I still remember the time when I did 28.5 mph in a TT on 310W; that was as much as I could have given. The guy who beat me did 28.9 mph, except he had to expend 390W. His equipment wasn't bad, either. One wonders how much faster he could have been...

[Burnette]

With hydraulics and wireless now gaining ground there are some nice examples of clean looking bikes out there.

Aesthetics is a personal thing and for me I like both but do prefer the uncluttered look of internal routing. As far as maintenance, once the bike is built I don't foresee excessive need to dicker with anything.

I never thought of any aero benefit and that would carry zero weight in my choice, it's solely the like of the clean look. I like the internal routing even on customs, Nate Zukas does amazing work with routing and Firefly has put put some of the cleanest looking Ti around with internal routing and a wireless group.

[Gummee]

As a mechanic, the other nice thing about external routing is less drag on the cables.

Less drag = better shifting for longer.

M

[benadrian]

we should all just be honest and say that the aesthetics count for more than the actual aero benefits :)

Having a cool looking bikes makes me want to ride it more. It's the same with guitars. A cool looking guitar makes me feel cooler when I'm playing it and that encourages me to play more. Having a fancy bit of kit makes me want to go out and play/ride my new toy. I will fault no rider for wanting to make their bike look awesome and perform well if it gets that rider out on their bike more often.

I'm in my 40s, I don't race, and while being aero is fun sometimes, it mainly hurts my neck and upper back. I just raised my stem back to the highest spot on the fork this week. I have mechanical rim brakes because I can easily work on them and I live in the L.A. area where the weather is almost always perfect. A few extra watts in drag is a few more calories I burn off on my rides:)

Cheers!

[benb]

I'm not going to say the internal cables are ugly, they are definitely sexy, although someone posted the assembly diagram of the new Madone and there is nothing sexy about the Madone or most of the aerobikes IMO.

I definitely prefer external though.

I have a Domane with internal cabling and it is annoying. It makes me want to drag out the maintenance intervals.

I have an All City Space Horse as well and the internal top tube routed cable for the rear brake is not at all annoying in that case.. you just cut a continuous long piece of housing and route it all the way from the brake lever. I've changed the cables/housing on that bike many times and it's never a PITA and I've had 0 complaints about the long piece of housing causing any brake feel issues.. I can easily set up the rear brake to be too firm and with too little modulation.

I find the drag #s just silly marketing. Jersey and helmet choice are probably more significant if you're going to ignore the elephant in the room which is bike fit and % of time you spend in the different handlebar positions.

[echappist]

I'm not going to say the internal cables are ugly, they are definitely sexy, although someone posted the assembly diagram of the new Madone and there is nothing sexy about the Madone or most of the aerobikes IMO.

I definitely prefer external though.

I have a Domane with internal cabling and it is annoying. It makes me want to drag out the maintenance intervals.

I have an All City Space Horse as well and the internal top tube routed cable for the rear brake is not at all annoying in that case.. you just cut a continuous long piece of housing and route it all the way from the brake lever. I've changed the cables/housing on that bike many times and it's never a PITA and I've had 0 complaints about the long piece of housing causing any brake feel issues.. I can easily set up the rear brake to be too firm and with too little modulation.

I find the drag #s just silly marketing. Jersey and helmet choice are probably more significant if you're going to ignore the elephant in the room which is bike fit and % of time you spend in the different handlebar positions.

none of that is mutually exclusive. Of course there are easier fruits to pick, but once the big ones have been picked, what then?

I think i said upthread that these are marginal, but marginal is not the same as non-existant or nearly non-eixstant.

[redir]

Some are better then others for sure. My Cervelo TT bike has these little removable inserts that open up the hole in the frame large enough to easily fish a cable through. The Cannondale however, I have to use a magnet. What a PIA that is.

[ptourkin]

Some are better then others for sure. My Cervelo TT bike has these little removable inserts that open up the hole in the frame large enough to easily fish a cable through. The Cannondale however, I have to use a magnet. What a PIA that is.

Setting up a pretty difficult dual suspension MTB last night, I learned a cool trick - sucking in a string with a vacuum instead of using a fish wire and magnet.

[R3awak3n]

the worst is.... internal routing and press fit BB. Now imagine your cable brakes, or say you crashed and broke one of the shifters, or.... you have to hammer out the damn BB out and then, in some cases, buy a new one and press it in. Its idiotic.

My open is internal and yes, it looks cool, and its clean but the next build will 100% be electric, probably etap... Doing the internal routing was a huge PITA. The hydro setup was fine and I did not mind that but the FD and RD cables, nope.

[Burnette]

the worst is.... internal routing and press fit BB. Now imagine your cable brakes, or say you crashed and broke one of the shifters, or.... you have to hammer out the damn BB out and then, in some cases, buy a new one and press it in. Its idiotic.

My open is internal and yes, it looks cool, and its clean but the next build will 100% be electric, probably etap... Doing the internal routing was a huge PITA. The hydro setup was fine and I did not mind that but the FD and RD cables, nope.

I think many would agree with the bold part. When Shimano finally goes wireless and it reaches critical mass, it will drift down to their 105 group and you'll see that matched with hydro. The clean look bike will be a draw for sure, even on round tube bikes.

[R3awak3n]

I think many would agree with the bold part. When Shimano finally goes wireless and it reaches critical mass, it will drift down to their 105 group and you'll see that matched with hydro. The clean look bike will be a draw for sure, even on round tube bikes.

My open took me hours to build, hell, maybe even days. Btw bleeding, to internal routing to cranks not fitting to now creaky ass BBs. I am still technically building it lol.

My croll took me a couple of hours... DT shifters, external routing, threaded english BB, quill stem. Was a joy,

[Burnette]

My open took me hours to build, hell, maybe even days. Btw bleeding, to internal routing to cranks not fitting to now creaky ass BBs. I am still technically building it lol.

My croll took me a couple of hours... DT shifters, external routing, threaded english BB, quill stem. Was a joy,

LMAO on the open issues, sorry to read that. I guess I look at it from an end user perspective where building it has no bearing on the decision.

Wireless and hydro make for a clean bike.

[Caballero]

Definitely external derailleur routing for mechanical, though I opt for the rear brake to be internal through the top tube. My preference is for split housing but full outer is also fine.

Also prefer to have barrel adjusters on the head tube/down tube, BSA/ITA threaded BB, mechanical, dual pull brakes, tubulars, lugged steel frame, steel fork lol don’t need any of the new tech to race competitively......

BTW . I’m currently riding a caad12 frame while I await my replacement. It rattles from the internal derailleur cables, rear brake cable rattles like crazy and feels very very rough and the bb30a bb creaks and moans.

Other than that, it’s a great ride lol

[Matthew]

I prefer external, but that's likely because all of my bikes happen to be that routing. Hell, I still run 7800 on one bike. Talk about external!!

[Dave]

My Colnago C-RS has insternal cables that really aren't too hard to deal with. There is a removable cover under the BB that allows some access. With Campy press fit cups, you might have to remove the ultra torque joinning bolt to take the crank arms off, but the cups can stay in place. I think I can do the job without removing either.

I plan to tape some fishing line to the end of any cable, before I pull it out, so I should be able to easily pull in a new one. I didn't do that when I stripped the 105 parts off the bike, so I used some small diameter welding rod to fish some of the cable in. Each end has a ferrule that can be removed and leaves a large hole to fish through.

I don't have any cable noise.

[BikeNY]

Glad to see so many hear still like external cable routing!

Now that all of my bikes have hydraulic disc brakes, I want no part of internal routing. I have 2 mountain bikes and one groad bike. All are custom and feature external cable routing, threaded bottom brackets and full length cable housing on the MTBs. The groad is now 1x Etap, the easiest ever to set up!

If you're running rim brakes, I can understand well-executed internal routing for the rear brake, but I'd still want my derailleur cables external.