Beginner bike racer question - how get the most gains for the least $$$

[KVN]

I started participating in some endurance mtb races this year with the goal of completing the Marji Gesick 50. Besides dabbling in CX years ago, this has been my only experience in bike racing. Really it’s the first time I’ve taken it seriously and actually trained for things. This is my second year riding mountain bikes but I’m really hooked.

I seemed to make big strides over the year. I started out with a DFL, then a DNF, and eventually started to finish mid pack and better. My best finish was 4th in a six hour race. But, the gap between me and third was pretty significant (20 or 30 min). I think I ended up 37th out of 250 at Marji.

I’m trying to think of goals for next year, and I think aiming for a podium finish might not be unreasonable. My problem is that I don’t have a ton of expendable income right now, so with this goal in mind, I’m trying to see what the best use of funds will be. Basically at this point it’s boiling down to race fees & travel expenses vs component upgrades.

I’m currently riding a rigid Stache, so I think a nice suspension fork or carbon wheelset could definitely have an impact on my overall speed. But, if I blow my money on bike bling then I’d have to be more selective on my races. I guess it boils down to spending money on experience or components.

Needless to say, I’ll be working on fitness and skills no matter what. Maybe my money would be better spent on a training camp or coaching?

[David Tollefson]

How about spending the money on an early season training camp (and I do mean "camp") with some like-minded riders. Spend a week doing epic rides over mountains.

[Aldus]

Power meter / smart trainer + workout plan (Trainerroad, Zwift, TrainingPeaks, whatever). This will make you faster than any other upgrades on your bike IMO.

[pasadena]

you will have to spend money on consumables like tires and drivetrain maintenance
focus your funds on training and coaching for improvements
good luck in 19!

[Dude]

Similar to what Pasadena said a coach over the course of a year might be $500. That's on par/cheaper than any technology you can buy and will have a longer impact than a wearable (fork, bike, fancy wheels).

Definitely get a coach/coaching.

[yinzerniner]

Honestly? Hiring a great dietitian.

Eating a diet that is catered to your individual digestive traits will not only help in terms of losing weight, but will also help in overall health, recovery and performance that will extend well beyond what's only seen in finite numbers. By feeling better you'll be able to train better, by recovering faster you'll be able to train more, and by tailoring a diet to your individual traits your body can generate more energy off the stuff you put in.

And the other recos of a coach are also spot on.

Good luck and look forward to reading about your progress.

[93KgBike]

I also agree with Pasadena. Racing has higher equipment costs. I'd race what you've got until USAC or whoever changes your class upward from results.

Today's Plan (https://www.todaysplan.com.au) runs about $250 a year, and is a great tool for a self-motivating person. Includes great scheduled workout plans, and is highly flexible/adaptable. Syncs to strava.

[RobJ]

Yep - the engine is the most important part. Focus your attention on your training and diet. Consistency is key. Maybe invest in a power meter if you don't already own one but otherwise stay the course with the bike/equipment until your performance dictates a need for a change. Any one of the online coaching programs would be a good structured start.

[KVN]

YES!

I cut way back on processed foods and my digestion has improved 1000%. I also dropped 30lbs over the year, which is probably why I'm setting a ton of PRs uphill now. My relationship with my gut is so much better now, both on and off the bike.

Honestly? Hiring a great dietitian.

Eating a diet that is catered to your individual digestive traits will not only help in terms of losing weight, but will also help in overall health, recovery and performance that will extend well beyond what's only seen in finite numbers. By feeling better you'll be able to train better, by recovering faster you'll be able to train more, and by tailoring a diet to your individual traits your body can generate more energy off the stuff you put in.

And the other recos of a coach are also spot on.

Good luck and look forward to reading about your progress.

[quickfeet]

When I was fastest on my MTB 90% of my training was done on a road bike. IMHO you can’t get anywhere close to the same overall fitness without road training. If you’re on this forum I would guess that you already have a road bike if not, that’s what I would recommend for fastest speed. That and a legitimate training plan.

[Joxster]

EPO, Inhaler and maybe some Dianabol

[benb]

Most important things:

- Really good Bike fitting
- Hire a coach
- Join a team

1) Bike fitting might not be as big of an issue for MTB but it's still pretty big. When I got my first *really* good fitting my power went up something like 30% and I won the next race I entered. For endurance/XC MTB for me my saddle position is basically the same as my road position. If that's your chief discipline then maybe make sure the fitter is well regarded for MTB/Takes MTB seriously. (Some don't). Some of this feeds into that need to get a road bike and train there too.. road bike for training your power, MTB for technical skills and knowing how to meter out power on the trail appropriately. (Really important IME... if you have lots of power and use too much of it in the wrong place you are crashing or having to walk pretty quickly.)

2) Coaching has huge benefits. A plan from a coach with a remote progress check is a great start. If you're already familiar with using a HRM that will help, if you already have a power meter and know how to train with it that will help, but otherwise my experience is that if you're starting with a coach they will have you stay with what you're comfortable with rather than running out to by a power meter since you're just starting. I think the rationale is that it takes long enough to learn the PM that if you have short term goals you don't want to compromise them relearning how to train. This doesn't have to be that expensive for this kind of remote coaching either. This probably does require buying some kind of connected cyclo-computer (Garmin, Wahoo, etc..) and signing up for some kind of software package (Training Peaks, etc..).

3) Might be less of a factor with MTB (like fitting) but being on a team has big potential benefits in shortening the learning curve. For MTB it has the double benefit of learning technical skills faster by riding with teammates who may be able to offer you pointers.

I wouldn't spend on a dietitian unless you had something going on like a health issue. You can spend a lot of money there and it's not needed for a lot of us. If you're motivated you can buy a book and figure it out.. no need to follow any crazy fad/food group elimination diet, just stick with tried and true endurance athlete recommendations, get decent proportions of the recommended food groups and keep a general idea of calories burned in training vs what you're eating. If you're disciplined and stick to the training and eat healthy you will get down to race weight no problem. There is a lot of over complication in this area because so many people in today's society went so far off the rails with bad eating habits.

[redir]

"Ride lots"

If you are on a full rigid then you are at a significant disadvantage imho.

[einreb]

I've spent a lot of money and time on bike stuff in my lifetime.

The best money by far was (good) coaching and then spending the time to commit to it.

[KVN]

Yeah, at this point I know I don't have the best tool for the job, but it's a damn fun and versatile bike. I'm a decent descender; I still pass plenty of mid-pack people who're ride FS bikes on the descents while riding the rigid, but I know I'd be even faster and more comfortable on a bike with some squish. How much faster, though? That's my question.

"Ride lots"

If you are on a full rigid then you are at a significant disadvantage imho.

[pdonk]

I'd suggest travel to some events a bit out of your territory - weekend trips to another state.

Racing against new people is fun, plus you have no expectations about how someone else is going to do and can see what others who are faster than you are doing who you don't know.

[charliedid]

Join a club/team that has a development component to it.

Can't be too hard to find in Madison.

Have fun, don't worry too much about the bike.

[Hellgate]

In a word? Hire a coach.

[Andy sti]

$99 TrainerRoad account
$900 Kickr Core

Start training and stay consistent. Long winter coming up and midweek daylight is limited, the trainer will get you the most bang for buck. Your MTB will fit and you will notice gains.

In the spring see how your doing and reassess the need/want to upgrade parts/bike.

[joosttx]

you will have to spend money on consumables like tires and drivetrain maintenance
focus your funds on training and coaching for improvements
good luck in 19!

This. I agree too.

[redir]

Yeah, at this point I know I don't have the best tool for the job, but it's a damn fun and versatile bike. I'm a decent descender; I still pass plenty of mid-pack people who're ride FS bikes on the descents while riding the rigid, but I know I'd be even faster and more comfortable on a bike with some squish. How much faster, though? That's my question.

MTB racing is not my main thing. Cyclocross was, and then I like road racing too... For me getting front suspension made a HUGE difference. But again that's because I really needed it. I'd guess though that even though you have the skills to descend you would gain minutes where needed with a shock fork.

As I started racing MTB as an amateur a few things I noticed that, as a roadie, the MTB-ers went slow as hell going up the climbs and bombed the descents. I'd be passing them on the climbs only to have to move over on the descents.

When I started racing in the expert cats I noticed that the pro's and really good amateurs go fast up AND down. So I lost that advantage of being a good climber.

I just did a down hill race a few weeks ago, a Super D they call it. So it's kind of a mix of X-country and down hill. But anyway I thought I did good at 10 minutes. The winner was just about 7. So that is 3 minutes on a 2.5 mile course. IDK even know how that's possible!

[ultraman6970]

3 mins in 2 miles downhill is really big chunk of time... well i do not do mtb so have no idea how the guys do it (i was already doing track and road when mtb showed up back in the day)... either way... the OP more than getting a good bike i would advice him to train better, spend maybe with a personal trainer, boot camp or something, that will make him physically and mentally strong.

In racing amazingly enough is not about the bike, is the rider...u have the legs and the mind, or none of them.

For the rest of us, a good bike helps... :P

[jmoore]

Definitely get a coach/coaching.


^ this x1000

[benb]

The bike/tech thing is valid but it's a major distraction too.

You can go get a $10k state of the art bike and you're in a beginner class in the MTB race and some expert will go right up a hill that you're walking, and he'll be on a rigid or a hardtail.

The bikes help but the skills are 10x more of a help.

Having the bike that puts your body/weight distribution in the right place and having the fit right makes an even bigger difference... great bike but your weight distribution is off and all of a sudden it wants to wheelie when you're trying to make an uphill turn, or the rear wheel is spinning, or the rear wheel is sliding out around turns, or worse still the front wheel is washing out.

[Climb01742]

Power meter because files don’t lie. Our perception of training otherwise can be fudged, as we all do.

Or a good indoor trainer to put your bike on. Wisconsin winters are like ours, if not worse. Summers are made in winters.

Good luck!

[defspace]

Hire a coach. Best ROI by a long shot.

[echappist]

MTB racing is not my main thing. Cyclocross was, and then I like road racing too... For me getting front suspension made a HUGE difference. But again that's because I really needed it. I'd guess though that even though you have the skills to descend you would gain minutes where needed with a shock fork.

As I started racing MTB as an amateur a few things I noticed that, as a roadie, the MTB-ers went slow as hell going up the climbs and bombed the descents. I'd be passing them on the climbs only to have to move over on the descents.

When I started racing in the expert cats I noticed that the pro's and really good amateurs go fast up AND down. So I lost that advantage of being a good climber.

I just did a down hill race a few weeks ago, a Super D they call it. So it's kind of a mix of X-country and down hill. But anyway I thought I did good at 10 minutes. The winner was just about 7. So that is 3 minutes on a 2.5 mile course. IDK even know how that's possible!

i'm reasonably good when it comes to climbing (topped out at 4.85 w/kg for 20 min, did reasonably well in hilly road races as a cat-3), but MTB climbing is a whole 'nother animal. I'd lose momentum in uphill hairpin turns, root sections, etc, and then it's a bear to get going again.

going donwhill, i truly stink. I'm thinking of racing XC MTB next year, but I think i'll be eating a lot of humble pie...

[DoubleButted]

I totally agree with all the advice above, but if you can find it in your budget a suspension fork on that Stache would certainly help. I have done the Marji on a 29+ rigid and my FS Stumpjumper. Night and day difference in how my upper body felt at the end.

[Gummee]

i'm reasonably good when it comes to climbing (topped out at 4.85 w/kg for 20 min, did reasonably well in hilly road races as a cat-3), but MTB climbing is a whole 'nother animal. I'd lose momentum in uphill hairpin turns, root sections, etc, and then it's a bear to get going again.

going donwhill, i truly stink. I'm thinking of racing XC MTB next year, but I think i'll be eating a lot of humble pie...Sounds like you need to ride with people better than you are and do what they do.

Helped me a lot 'back when.'

I still stink at cornering on a mtn bike and lose time every corner. Gotta fix that. ...by riding with guys that are better than I am and doing what they do

M

[David Kirk]

Hire a coach. Best ROI by a long shot.

I agree....if you want to spend money hire a coach. If you want to do it on the cheap pick faster riders who will give you advice and not just shuck you to ride with. Pick an old but fast guy and you will learn much.

dave

[IJWS]

There couldn't be more good advice than what's been listed above.

Seat time, in any sport, is the most valuable. You will see, learn, and ingrain more than you ever will by buying a new fork....that said, rent/demo/borrow some full squish bikes and see if they are for you. Your full-rigid--which is really cool--might be holding you back.

Riding lots is always always going to be the best thing. You will end up fitter and happier. If you get to a really fit and happy point and also realize that an expensive bike can help you be faster, here is the advice:

Join a team, get a p/t job at a bike shop, make really good friends with someone in the bike industry. A big discount goes a long way--especially if you don't shoot for the moon equipment-wise. A $10,000 bike isn't going to be that much cheaper with an industry/brand ambassador/team discount, but a $5,000 bike could be had for significantly less.

Anyway, spend whatever your budget is on training and fitness first. When you start thinking about equipment, there are sources of support built into the sport.

[merlinmurph]

As I started racing MTB as an amateur a few things I noticed that, as a roadie, the MTB-ers went slow as hell going up the climbs and bombed the descents. I'd be passing them on the climbs only to have to move over on the descents.


Ha! That's exactly how my mtb races went when I did some Vet Sport races in the early 90s. I'd pass guys on the climbs, and they'd pass me on the descent. Hey, I had fun and got some good stories out of it.

[tuxbailey]

I am going to be a shill for my neighbor as he was a very successful MTN racer. He offers coaching as well as self guided training plans and it seems that he has helped quite a few riders before.

http://www.chriseatough.com/

MODs: Please let me know if this is not ok and I can delete the post.

[benb]

Ha! That's exactly how my mtb races went when I did some Vet Sport races in the early 90s. I'd pass guys on the climbs, and they'd pass me on the descent. Hey, I had fun and got some good stories out of it.

This was somewhat my experience too.. but I was a relatively natural climber and my "engine" started out awfully good compared to the other beginners.

But I had a cheap bike and had a long road to go in terms of getting my fit right and keeping things like brakes working through the whole race. I crashed a lot on downhills the MTB races I did.

Some of the "slow on the uphills" is reserving energy for when there is a hard/technical section.. if you hold back at tempo while another guy rides threshold he's too gassed to pull a wheelie/jump/whatever when you turn the corner and there's something hard in the way. At least my experience.. if I ride at the intensity level I do on the road uphill I don't have enough left to be mentally/physically with it to handle jumps in the technical level of the trail. Of course that shows there's a huge benefit to increasing your overall fitness level.

[eddief]

to honor the victims. BS