Thoughts on Dura-Ace Di2 vs Chorus mechanical

[zmalwo]

After using the two, I can tell you that my Campagnolo Chorus mechanical group shifts faster than my Dura-Ace Di2 9070 group. If you know how to adjust cables and tune the derailleurs I don't see the point of going electronic. The only good thing about Di2 is that you can add sprint or climb shifters on your bars but other than that they are heavier, slower and more expensive. I can shift from 25t to 11t in 2 push on my chorus but I have to wait for 5+seconds on my dura ace di2. Also people say that front derailleur shifting is better on di2 but I don't think that's the case either. I can climb out of saddle and still shift just fine with my pre 2015 chorus group, down or up shift. Never dropped the chain on my chorus either. I guess people like di2 because most of them doesn't know how to fine tune their mechanical drive train and just want something to set and forget. What's your thoughts?

[R3awak3n]

I will disagree, I love my etap. I don't think its better than my mech chorus but it is equally as good for different reasons.

E shifting is just so easy, shifts get replicated the same, every single time, never misses a beat. I never had DI2 but wireless etap is just awesome, cleans up the whole cable mess. I do love the wireless shifters and one thing that I also love is seeing what gear I am on the garmin. I thought was a gimmick but now I find myself missing having it when riding other bikes.

What mech campy has, well, any campy, is the shifter ergonomics... campy has the best ergos for my hands and I do love the thumb button (even though after getting used to the way etap shifts I am actually very into it)

[Kirk007]

Dura Ace 9100 shifts better than Chorus 11 in my experience, and Dura Ace/Sram play nice with my arthritic thumbs, Campy does not. I haven't ridden Di2 but I have two etap bikes.

Dura Ace 9100 shifts faster/better than etap. Both need very minor tweaking on occasion - push a button for etap micro adjustment is marginally easier than turning a cable adjuster. Sram still struggles to design and build a decent front derailleur (had to lock tight the high adjustment screw on one of mine to keep it from backing out and then throwing the chain over the big ring). Etap is quicker to install, bike looks clean without cables and housing, and you eliminate those wear items, but you have to charge etap, maybe carry around a spare battery or two and mentally think about whether the battery is going to run out on the ride you're about to leave on.

They all work great. None are perfect.

[oldpotatoe]

After using the two, I can tell you that my Campagnolo Chorus mechanical group shifts faster than my Dura-Ace Di2 9070 group. If you know how to adjust cables and tune the derailleurs I don't see the point of going electronic. The only good thing about Di2 is that you can add sprint or climb shifters on your bars but other than that they are heavier, slower and more expensive. I can shift from 25t to 11t in 2 push on my chorus but I have to wait for 5+seconds on my dura ace di2. Also people say that front derailleur shifting is better on di2 but I don't think that's the case either. I can climb out of saddle and still shift just fine with my pre 2015 chorus group, down or up shift. Never dropped the chain on my chorus either. I guess people like di2 because most of them doesn't know how to fine tune their mechanical drive train and just want something to set and forget. What's your thoughts?

Both groups essentially do the same thing..move a chain around on cogs and chainrings. One using a cable, the other, 'trons', but it is electro-mechanical.

Yup, most any mechanical is 'faster' than most any electronic but the differences are tiny and 'cycling finesse' makes this a non problem.

Advantage of electronic is if the battery is charged, it works the same all day, everyday, every week. Mechanical-cable and housing degradation/failure requires replacement which is often preceded by degraded shifting.

I have EPS, downtube shifter bike and a mechanical SR/11s bike..they all work great for my 'enthusiast' bod..

[zmalwo]

Both groups essentially do the same thing..move a chain around on cogs and chainrings. One using a cable, the other, 'trons', but it is electro-mechanical.

Yup, most any mechanical is 'faster' than most any electronic but the differences are tiny and 'cycling finesse' makes this a non problem.

Advantage of electronic is if the battery is charged, it works the same all day, everyday, every week. Mechanical-cable and housing degradation/failure requires replacement which is often preceded by degraded shifting.

I have EPS, downtube shifter bike and a mechanical SR/11s bike..they all work great for my 'enthusiast' bod..

I don't think any mechanical group is faster than electronic group because both shimano and sram have to upshift one by one. Only Campagnolo ultra shift shifters are faster than electronic shifting.

[David Kirk]

I think that trying to justify electronic shifting from a performance standpoint is missing the point. IMO it just feels good and is simply fun to use.

I've set up lots of bikes and I own a bike with eTap and another with DA mechanical and both work flawlessly. I have to say that I enjoy eTap more. Not because it shifts faster or better but just because it feels good to use.

I think that's enough reason.

dave

[MattTuck]

At best mechanical group can transmit the shift in maybe a 100th of a second. Electronic groups? Speed of light. :)

Electronic groups may be better on an absolute basis, but not sure on a per $ basis. And, curious to know about long term durability of the electronic systems - both the switches on the levers and the derailleurs. Peter, you may need to get a soldering iron to rebuild the brifters.

[zmalwo]

At best mechanical group can transmit the shift in maybe a 100th of a second. Electronic groups? Speed of light. :)

Electronic groups may be better on an absolute basis, but not sure on a per $ basis. And, curious to know about long term durability of the electronic systems - both the switches on the levers and the derailleurs. Peter, you may need to get a soldering iron to rebuild the brifters.

I know a guy who broke 2 dura ace di2 10 speed rear dearilleurs simply by using them, no crash. I'm sure the newer ones are more durable. Shimano have to send him a 11 speed rd with an special cable to use it on a 10s drive train.

[mktng]

I know a guy who broke 2 dura ace di2 10 speed rear dearilleurs simply by using them, no crash. I'm sure the newer ones are more durable. Shimano have to send him a 11 speed rd with an special cable to use it on a 10s drive train.

how did they break?

i know people still on the first gen di2 stuff. daily riding. all weather riding. no issues. even crashed once or twice. still functioning perfectly.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't think any mechanical group is faster than electronic group because both shimano and sram have to upshift one by one. Only Campagnolo ultra shift shifters are faster than electronic shifting.

??
I can tell you that my Campagnolo Chorus mechanical group shifts faster than my Dura-Ace Di2 9070 group

[R3awak3n]

I am not sure why everyone in cycling is always so focused on how fast stuff shifts... There is always the argument that etap does not shift fast enough yet there are pros using it and they are doing just fine. We are talking about fractions of a second here and most of us here don't even compete so its an even bigger null point

[oldpotatoe]

At best mechanical group can transmit the shift in maybe a 100th of a second. Electronic groups? Speed of light. :)

Electronic groups may be better on an absolute basis, but not sure on a per $ basis. And, curious to know about long term durability of the electronic systems - both the switches on the levers and the derailleurs. Peter, you may need to get a soldering iron to rebuild the brifters.

Pretty simple shifters, just a switch...Long term reliability..My EPS is going on 6 years w/o any issue..only charged battery 6 times..

[zmalwo]

??

I meant to say not every mechanical groupset

[mmelito]

I think that trying to justify electronic shifting from a performance standpoint is missing the point. IMO it just feels good and is simply fun to use.

I've set up lots of bikes and I own a bike with eTap and another with DA mechanical and both work flawlessly. I have to say that I enjoy eTap more. Not because it shifts faster or better but just because it feels good to use.

I think that's enough reason.

dave

+1

Isn't it all about the enjoyment of the ride?

Btw...David loved your Philly Bike Expo bike........how gorgeous was that bike!!

[MattTuck]

Isn't it all about the enjoyment of the ride?


I was under the impression that it was all about the bike.

[bitt3n]

I can't wait until the Tour goes full wireless derailleurs and somebody hacks them and starts phantom shifting competing teams over the bars going up the Alpe d'Huez

[sfscott]

Personally, I am surprised to see any SRAM love here.

[Mark McM]

After using the two, I can tell you that my Campagnolo Chorus mechanical group shifts faster than my Dura-Ace Di2 9070 group. If you know how to adjust cables and tune the derailleurs I don't see the point of going electronic. The only good thing about Di2 is that you can add sprint or climb shifters on your bars but other than that they are heavier, slower and more expensive. I can shift from 25t to 11t in 2 push on my chorus but I have to wait for 5+seconds on my dura ace di2. Also people say that front derailleur shifting is better on di2 but I don't think that's the case either. I can climb out of saddle and still shift just fine with my pre 2015 chorus group, down or up shift. Never dropped the chain on my chorus either. I guess people like di2 because most of them doesn't know how to fine tune their mechanical drive train and just want something to set and forget. What's your thoughts?

This has largely been my experience as well. Di2 is of course a viable alternative for those who like its dynamics. I don't. Over many years of riding, my shifting has become synchronized with my pedal strokes (I always shift as my left leg reaches the top of the circle, so the shift is complete by the time the leg enters the "power zone" on the downstroke). With Campagnolo Ultra-shift, the derailleur moves in unison with the shift lever, so the shift gets timed with my pedaling. With Di2, there is a delay between actuating the lever/button and the actual movement of the derailleur, creating a disconnect between the shift and the pedal stroke. In addition, I frequently shift multiple sprockets at a time, in both direction. Double sprocket shifts are common, and also the occasional triple sprocket shifts. With Ultra-shift, a double or even triple sprocket shift is only slightly slower than a single sprocket shift. With Di2, double and triple sprocket shifts are much slower, and results in a greater interruptions in pedaling dynamics.

Every once in a while, I shift across the entire cassette. When going from smallest to largest sprockets, this can be done with 3 lever pushes, and takes about 2 seconds. Going from largest to smallest takes only 2 button pushes, and is even faster. Admittedly, this is mostly superfluous, as this is an uncommon occurrence, but interesting none-the-less.

[R3awak3n]

Personally, I am surprised to see any SRAM love here.

hey, its gotta change some time... plenty of people ridding sram now and actually liking it

[benb]

I haven't owned any Di2/Ui2 bikes and haven't rode an EPS bike but I definitely noticed the latency on the Shimano electronic systems.

That said it didn't seem like it was anything I couldn't adjust to using. And I know I would appreciate it on a bad weather/winter bike where I was wearing bulky gloves. I think Electronic shifting would be much better there.

But there is no place for a $2000 electronic groupset on a winter bike IMO.. salt destroys everything, my complete bike with 105 mechanical that I use in bad weather costs less than an electronic groupset. When stuff gets destroyed it might as well be less expensive.

There is a big spread in mechanical aptitude & comfort with different people, for some mechanical shifting is easy to keep working for others, not so much, so there's always going to be people who like one or the other more. I am kind of feeling that if you're the kind of rider who always takes the bike to the shop to deal with any shifting issues you might be better off with an electronic groupset. The high cost of the groupset won't really matter if it has less routine maintenance. If you do that routine maintenance yourself on mechanical it's dirt cheap but the shop will ring you up substantial charges over time.

[glepore]

how did they break?

i know people still on the first gen di2 stuff. daily riding. all weather riding. no issues. even crashed once or twice. still functioning perfectly.

DA 7970 derailleurs have a known problem where the indexing internally fails. I went through 3 before going to a 7970A-the 9070 derailleur with an adapter.

As to the original post, I have 7970 and 9070 di2, etap and sr mechanical, and a 7800 bike. All shift very well, the difference being mostly in the speed of the front shift being greater with electronic.

[Bob Ross]

What's your thoughts?

My first thought was "OP clearly doesn't suffer from arthritis."

[benb]

I've honestly had a bunch of hand problems the past 5 years and it has gone through my head MANY times that the brifters are potentially a really bad design for your hand/wrist health.

And I don't think hydro brakes or electronic shifting really change it much at all. More just that we're gripping an awkwardly shaped handle that doesn't really match the shape of our hands well, and sometimes squeezing it fairly hard. I'd guess they probably do help some, but they're just bandaids on the problem.

Hands are mostly healthy now and it's not arthritis but the brifters didn't help.. glad I don't have arthritis (yet?). (I'm 41)

[zmudshark]

I was under the impression that it was all about the bike.
I was under the impression that it was all about riding the bike.

[Kirk007]

And I don't think hydro brakes or electronic shifting really change it much at all. (I'm 41)

I think it depends on your problem. I have very arthritic thumbs and shifting away from Campy has made a world of difference, as much as I loved Campy and think they also have the best shaped shifters out there. But I'm at the point of exploring stem cell treatment for the thumbs - who knows, maybe Campy could be back on the menu some day!

[FlashUNC]

Personally, I am surprised to see any SRAM love here.

I've thought their mechanical road groups were garbage for a long time. But eTap is legit. I really don't see a reason to use another electronic group.

[zmalwo]

I've thought their mechanical road groups were garbage for a long time. But eTap is legit. I really don't see a reason to use another electronic group.

yeah you are right their mechanical components are total trash, the only good thing about them is that they are road/mountain interchangeable that's why you see lot's of cross bikes with Sram components. The biggest problem for me is that Sram mechanical shifters doesn't have trim on front derailleur.

[Elefantino]

I've thought their mechanical road groups were garbage for a long time. But eTap is legit. I really don't see a reason to use another electronic group.
The questions now are:

Get eTap Red 22
Wait for eTap Red 24
Wait for eTap Force 22/24/whatever it will be
Just say screw it and get SR mechanical


Something is going to grace my Serotta next spring. Just a question of what.

Pro deals are the devil.

[zmalwo]

The questions now are:

Get eTap Red 22
Wait for eTap Red 24
Wait for eTap Force 22/24/whatever it will be
Just say screw it and get SR mechanical


Something is going to grace my Serotta next spring. Just a question of what.

Pro deals are the devil.

imo just get Chorus, same structure different material, both performs exactly the same. Steel Chorus cassette last longer than SR and only 180g difference. Better lose half pound of weight than spending $1000 extra on SR.

[Elefantino]

imo just get Chorus, same structure different material, both performs exactly the same. Steel Chorus cassette last longer than SR and only 180g difference. Better lose half pound of weight than spending $1000 extra on SR.

Head vs. heart