Is it me or....?

[Lewis Moon]

Is it me or are tubeless tires less puncture resistant? I figure they must rely on sealant rather than a strip under the tread. I've had a hella number of flats on the two sets of tubeless ready CX tires I've had.

[jtbadge]

Which tires are you using? A tire designed for CX racing may have a lighter weight (i.e., less durable) casing/tread than something designed for all-day/all-surface (“gravel”) riding.

[bigbill]

That hasn't been my experience. I've got Gravel Kings on my gravel bike and have ridden some pretty rough stuff like shale, desert trails with goatheads, and crappy shoulders on busy roads with all kinds of glass. I'll see the occasional spot of white Stan's on the tread but no flats. Same for road tires.

[Jaybee]

I know you live in PHX, and there are many sharp things there, and it is also exceptionally dry.

Up your sealant quantity, and keep it topped up. Orange Seal Endurance is my current choice in arid conditions, but Stans was fine for many years riding in Tucson.

[bigbill]

I know you live in PHX, and there are many sharp things there, and it is also exceptionally dry.

Up your sealant quantity, and keep it topped up. Orange Seal Endurance is my current choice in arid conditions, but Stans was fine for many years riding in Tucson.

Good points. I live in Kingman, AZ and I have to add way more sealant more often. When my Stan's is used up I'm switching to Orange Seal.

[Lewis Moon]

Actually, let me clarify. I'm running them with tubes, no sealant. I've run tubes with sealant and have riding buddies who run tubeless and my experience has been such that I REALLY don't want to deal with it. So, my question is: are tubeless tire manufacturers less likely to include a puncture belt, relying on the sealant to take care of the goatheads?
The tires I'm running now are 35c Ritchey Shields.

[Jaybee]

Ah, I see. Sorry for misreading your OP.

So do you currently run sealant in your tubes? Based on my own experiences w the Sonoran desert, I vastly preferred some type of sealant in my tubes, even (especially?) on the road.

As for your question, the Ritchey Shield is marketed as a race tire, so I wouldn't expect any special atttention to flat protection at the expense of weight and ride quality. Some of the more gravel/allroad specific tires might be better at this. Also, at least off-road, some tires are built with burlier casings to ward off rock cuts and sidewall damage, even if intended to run tubeless w sealant.

[dbnm]

I am using Mavic tubeless tires with the Mavic sealant and they have been really good here in NM.

[Lewis Moon]

Sorry for the rant...

I really hate sealant. Google "sealant problems" and I've probably had, or have been on rides where someone has had, all of those problems. I've had to shampoo it out of my hair, had to clean it off my glasses (really hard on the road with just a lycra jersey), had it harden into a lump in a tube, had it completely clog a valve, had to clean it out of the inside of a rim, had it burp out of a valve on carpet, had to loan a friend three co2 cartridges as he tried to chase down a hole that wouldn't seal, sat for 40 minutes while someone switched to a tube...
I'm pretty much done with sealant. I don't mind fixing the occasional flat. I just want to know if I should generally stay away from running tubes in tubeless ready tires, because my experience has been that they are less puncture resistant.

[John H.]

It's you- My tubeless tires last too long.
I end up wearing the gravel tires down to the nubs, road tires until cords show through.
Last "flat" I had on my tubeless was a big cut on the side of a very worn road tire- the thing still refused to go flat.
I had to let the air out to boot it and put tube in- Because I had to ride for 3 more hours.

[93KgBike]

Tried tubeless for mtb, but found that tire compound made a bigger difference than tire pressure, plus the tubeless were heavy, messy and not confidence inspiring - as in carrying spare tubes anyway, made no sense.

It would be nice to try UST's, but there are so many lightweight and durable road tires and tubes already, it's just not a priority. But Mavic has the right idea. And there are enough potential mechanical issues already without adding sticky goo, or disassembling a valve stem, or impossible to reseat tires into the mix.

But I'm curious to know the answer to OP's question...

[R3awak3n]

I don't find that tubeless tires are less puncture resistance (even using tubes). I have had different gravel kings, some are tubeless tires, other are not (the 32mm for example), they seem to get flats at about the same rate.


Sorry you are not into tubeless, I think its pretty awesome when it works... it works really well. When it does not work, it really is a huge PITA and makes a huge mess.

[Hellgate]

I used to ride Dreamy Draw in PHX back in the late '80's. Used Gorilla Snot and Mr. Tuffies and still flatted. That desert eats tires alive. Good luck!

[Seramount]

When it does not work, it really is a huge PITA and makes a huge mess.

that's enough to dissuade me from ever trying tubeless.

[cachagua]

When it works... it works really well. When it does not work, it really is a huge PITA and makes a huge mess.



Same could be said of the lottery. Only, tubeless is more PITA and messier.

Would you drive a nineteen-teens-vintage car? I wouldn't. They had a number of bugs, which subsequent improvements have largely worked out. Similarly, in a couple decades, tubeless is probably going to behave fairly well. In the meantime, I'm grateful to y'all who are keeping the industry in development capital, because I'm afraid I'm not contributing a cent right now.

I picture myself on the back of a horse in 1915, looking at a guy throwing his back out trying to start his car, getting me to help him when it gets stuck in mud, overheating and blowing a gasket, et cetera, et cetera, and all the time telling me "It's SUCH an improvement! Man, you gotta do this!" I've got that Jed Clampett skeptical look on my face...

That said, some of the tires I've been riding this past season are the tubeless style, and -- I don't seem to flat 'em any more than anything else.

[R3awak3n]

that's enough to dissuade me from ever trying tubeless.

don't, it is pretty amazing most of the time. I commuted around NYC for 1500 miles tubeless, not 1 flat (well, 1 flat and then I switched them to a tube) ... Trust me, NYC is a glass warzone. Also always tubeless on gravel, not many flats to talk about.

Its good tech and I do like it very much. However as far as road goes, I still have not converted, still running tubes but thinking about going tubeless. A few weekends ago I had 5 flats, it was just not my day (maybe a bit my fault but that is a story for another day), my friend on tubeless was laughing.

[bigbill]

The same two tubes have been in my road bike saddlebag since last September. About 8000 miles. But hey.... 25mm tubeless, they don't work for everyone.

[Jaybee]

The technology is fully developed at this point, especially for off-road. Haven’t had a MTB tire issue in over 3 years. Come to think of it, I should probably switch out that “emergency” tube in my pack- I’m sure it’s degraded by now.

[rustychisel]

The technology is (1)fully developed at this point, especially (2)for off-road. Haven’t had a MTB tire issue in over 3 years. Come to think of it, I should probably switch out that “emergency” tube in my pack- I’m sure it’s degraded by now.

One of these two statements does not mesh with the other. One indicates success, the other partial success. Research indicates to me the technology can still be problematic in some applications. I'll wait.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't find that tubeless tires are less puncture resistance (even using tubes). I have had different gravel kings, some are tubeless tires, other are not (the 32mm for example), they seem to get flats at about the same rate.


Sorry you are not into tubeless, I think its pretty awesome when it works... it works really well. When it does not work, it really is a huge PITA and makes a huge mess.

kinda like disc brakes..DOH!:)

[R3awak3n]

kinda like disc brakes..DOH!:)

kinda like everything in life.

but really both discs and tubeless work amazing. Harder to set up at first but with benefits in day to day.

[Jef58]

There was a post about tubeless on V Salon. I was pretty much in the minority about not being wow'd with tubeless. To me, it is a personal decision by weighing +'s or -'s. In the end, I didn't think it was worth adding sealant and still carrying a tube, a tool for the stem and a rag to clean up the mess. Granted my sample was a few years ago with Eurus 2 way fit and Hutchinson Fusion tires. I'm sure tires have evolved and with more choices, but the roadside repair was what I was thinking about. My thought was tubulars ride better and tubed clinchers are easier to deal with. The idea is great and I still have the wheels, so maybe someday I'll give it another go, for now there is no need to go that route. Another point, my riding is strictly on the road with 23-25 tires, no gravel or off road so that can skew the true benefits that others may enjoy.

[Seramount]

don't, it is pretty amazing most of the time. I commuted around NYC for 1500 miles tubeless, not 1 flat (well, 1 flat and then I switched them to a tube) ... Trust me, NYC is a glass warzone. Also always tubeless on gravel, not many flats to talk about.

Its good tech and I do like it very much. However as far as road goes, I still have not converted, still running tubes but thinking about going tubeless. A few weekends ago I had 5 flats, it was just not my day (maybe a bit my fault but that is a story for another day), my friend on tubeless was laughing.

yeah, if I was flatting as frequently as that (my record is a paltry 3 on one ride), I might be willing to try them. but I can count the flats (knock on wood) I've had this year on 2 fingers.

just not worth the hassle to save a few minutes of time to swap in a new tube.

[azrider]

For me personally, and my riding, tubeless makes way more sense to run on MTB but for road I'll stick to tubes.

[chiasticon]

but really both discs and tubeless work amazing. Harder to set up at first but with benefits in day to day.kinda like tubulars..DOH! :)