Campagnolo 11s compatibility conundrum

[dddd]

Would a current alloy 11s Centaur rear derailer allow me to use 2014 Record Ergolevers with a 12-32t cassette?

Someone brought me their pre-2015 Record-equipped bike and asked me to install a current Chorus-11 mid-cage HO rear derailer and 12-32t cassette, but I discovered that this derailer won't work with his 2014 Record Ergolevers.

I'm hoping that there is(???) a derailer that will allow him to use his 2014 levers with the 12-32t cassette!

Thanks in advance for considering this dilemma!

[Dave]

A current chorus medium cage RD will work with a 12-32. I found that the older shifters don't pull quite as much cable as the 2015+ models. Get a new M5 socket head bolt, the same length as the original cable clamp bolt and use a dremel cutoff disc to grind the threads down to the root, in the area where the cable contacts the bolt. This will shorten the lever arm length and increase the RD travel. Be sure that the cable contacts the bolt when the bolt is tightened.

The last time I did this, I used a longer bolt and put it in a drill, to spin the bolt while grinding the threads. It also works to spin the bolt while it's cut to length.

[dddd]

A current chorus medium cage RD will work with a 12-32. I found that the older shifters don't pull quite as much cable as the 2015+ models. Get a new M5 socket head bolt, the same length as the original cable clamp bolt and use a dremel cutoff disc to grind the threads down to the root, in the area where the cable contacts the bolt. This will shorten the lever arm length and increase the RD travel. Be sure that the cable contacts the bolt when the bolt is tightened.

The last time I did this, I used a longer bolt and put it in a drill, to spin the bolt while grinding the threads. It also works to spin the bolt while it's cut to length.

Thanks for the idea. I've done similar hacks with other brands of derailers and recall one issue with the cable tending to fall back toward the groove as the bolt was tightened.
Do you think that I would need to use any sort of washer between the cable and grooved arm to prevent this?

[Dave]

Thanks for the idea. I've done similar hacks with other brands of derailers and recall one issue with the cable tending to fall back toward the groove as the bolt was tightened.
Do you think that I would need to use any sort of washer between the cable and grooved arm to prevent this?

You could, if you can find one thin enough.

I just did this mod to a new potenza RD, using 2009 shifters. It works fine with a 12-32.

[dddd]

You could, if you can find one thin enough.

I just did this mod to a new potenza RD, using 2009 shifters. It works fine with a 12-32.

Great, I'll make the bolt 1mm longer and use a thin, grippy aluminum washer to support the cable clamping.

[oldpotatoe]

Would a current alloy 11s Centaur rear derailer allow me to use 2014 Record Ergolevers with a 12-32t cassette?

Someone brought me their pre-2015 Record-equipped bike and asked me to install a current Chorus-11 mid-cage HO rear derailer and 12-32t cassette, but I discovered that this derailer won't work with his 2014 Record Ergolevers.

I'm hoping that there is(???) a derailer that will allow him to use his 2014 levers with the 12-32t cassette!

Thanks in advance for considering this dilemma!

Just about anything 2009+, 11s, will work fine, just not the latest Centaur 11s one. Potenza...no mod required..that little overshift is no big deal.

[Ralph]

I usually go to this for my Campy compatibility questions.

http://www.velotech-cycling.ltd.uk/campagnolo_faq.shtml#comp-mec

[dddd]

Just about anything 2009+, 11s, will work fine, just not the latest Centaur 11s one. Potenza...no mod required..that little overshift is no big deal.


I read Ralph's link about the Potenza having lower spring tension than Chorus and above rear derailers, but that's not my problem here with this Chorus HO mech.

As far as the noted "cable recovery" being different according to Velotech, and with respect to Dave's cable-anchoring modification, I notice here that it is the fancy tabbed washer that will need modification (trimmed tab) to allow the cable to exit from it's new location and toward the adjusting barrel. It seems beast to keep this modified washer, instead of substituting a plain washer, so that the cable attachment location becomes more easily repeatable with each cable replacement, in case the tech doing the work is unfamiliar with the unique "system requirements".
And the cable groove is integral to the tabbed washer (unlike Shimano, with the groove cut into the arm), so my added thin washer will need to go between the cable and the tabbed washer to "smooth over" the old groove location in the tabbed washer.

[dddd]

For anyone wanting to use the newer Chorus HO rear derailer with the pre-2015 levers, I did finally finish my work with such a setup.

I initially was impressed how accurately that the derailer seemed to index with no modification whatsoever, but out on the road was a different story.

Oddly enough, the "accumulated error" that is supposed to compromise shifting at either end of the cassette never materialized.
Instead, what plagued the setup was (for the shifting off of the middle cog) a hesitancy to shift to the next-smaller cog.
And loosening the cable a smidge to fix this then caused noisy transmission on the smaller cogs only 2 positions away! This lead to the inevitable adjustment compromise which was bound to make for incredibly short service intervals between tiny adjustments of the barrel adjuster.

So I went ahead and decided to shorten the arm. I wanted to keep the cable happy in it's groove in the tabbed washer, so I filed the bolt hole in the washer into an oval shape using a 3/16" chainsaw file. This would allow me to move the washer and the groove "inward" along the arm, making it effectively shorter and thus boosting the cable travel in that critical central region of the cassette.
I did also reduce the bolt's threaded diameter under the head with a thin file (anchoring the end of the bolt in the vise using a sacrificial M5 hex nut as a grip), and further had to file the washer's thicker tab to allow it to move "inward" at the big-tab end of the washer.
I then pushed the washer while tightening the anchor bolt, in such direction as to effectively shorten the arm.

Back on the road, I was almost surprised that the modification worked in the center-to-smaller region of the cassette without hindering the indexing at the extremes of the derailer's travel. I tested the new C11 chain first, then tested a well-used (and slightly wider) Shimano 6800 11s chain, and after discovering no improvement at all I put the C11 chain back on. I used a KMC Missing Link for all of the testing and was glad for that, even the old C11 chain I had taken off had one of these links.

The washer itself is apparently made of hellacious alluminum alloy. The entire time I was working on it I thought it was steel, but later found smeared aluminum on my Dremel's grinding wheel. No wonder it was cutting so slowly!

Anyway, that's my conclusion and I'm glad that I went for it.

[Dave]

When I made this mod to a 10 speed FD, I made a new anchoring tab from some stainless steel sheet metal and a small washer to increase the thickness. I drilled the hole first, then used a dremel cutoff wheel to make cuts as needed to leave a tab to prevent rotation and bent it 90 degrees with pliers. With no groove, the cable is just pulled tight against the clamp screw.

I measured the cable pulls recently on the old 11 speed shifters after someone claimed that each pull got progressively larger. That's not the case. The first pull was 3mm, but it can be affected by the limit screw. The next 7 shifts are all 2.5mm, and the last two are 3.5mm, with the limit screw backed out, so it didn't limit the last pull.

I can't measure the pull on the new shifters I have because the bike they are on has all internal cable routing.

[dddd]

I didn't think that the pulls were all over the place like some had claimed, rather I think that such was inferred by the presence of varying cog spacer thicknesses between the cog spiders of Campag's cassettes (but which does not reflect actual cog spacing). So good on you to have cleared that up!

The changes I made would seem to be really small relative to any measurements that I could make at home, but as I mentioned it did thankfully improve the shifting in the central-to-small region of the cassette.
So thanks for the tip about that!

[m_sasso]

For anyone wanting to use the newer Chorus HO rear derailer with the pre-2015 levers, I did finally finish my work with such a setup.

I initially was impressed how accurately that the derailer seemed to index with no modification whatsoever, but out on the road was a different story.

Oddly enough, the "accumulated error" that is supposed to compromise shifting at either end of the cassette never materialized.
Instead, what plagued the setup was (for the shifting off of the middle cog) a hesitancy to shift to the next-smaller cog.
And loosening the cable a smidge to fix this then caused noisy transmission on the smaller cogs only 2 positions away! This lead to the inevitable adjustment compromise which was bound to make for incredibly short service intervals between tiny adjustments of the barrel adjuster.

So I went ahead and decided to shorten the arm. I wanted to keep the cable happy in it's groove in the tabbed washer, so I filed the bolt hole in the washer into an oval shape using a 3/16" chainsaw file. This would allow me to move the washer and the groove "inward" along the arm, making it effectively shorter and thus boosting the cable travel in that critical central region of the cassette.
I did also reduce the bolt's threaded diameter under the head with a thin file (anchoring the end of the bolt in the vise using a sacrificial M5 hex nut as a grip), and further had to file the washer's thicker tab to allow it to move "inward" at the big-tab end of the washer.
I then pushed the washer while tightening the anchor bolt, in such direction as to effectively shorten the arm.

Back on the road, I was almost surprised that the modification worked in the center-to-smaller region of the cassette without hindering the indexing at the extremes of the derailer's travel. I tested the new C11 chain first, then tested a well-used (and slightly wider) Shimano 6800 11s chain, and after discovering no improvement at all I put the C11 chain back on. I used a KMC Missing Link for all of the testing and was glad for that, even the old C11 chain I had taken off had one of these links.

The washer itself is apparently made of hellacious alluminum alloy. The entire time I was working on it I thought it was steel, but later found smeared aluminum on my Dremel's grinding wheel. No wonder it was cutting so slowly!

Anyway, that's my conclusion and I'm glad that I went for it.

Hello ddd,

Wondering if you might have taken any pictures during your modifications, or have any of the final cable positioning? Read through your process, however having some images always helps to complete the story.
Thanks