***: It's a weird world

[thunderworks]

Not 500 yard into my evening ride, a guy in a pickup passes, really close. No one coming from the other direction. I was approximately 3' from the side of the road . . . He pulls in right in front of me and I veer towards the side to give him more room.

I give a "palm's up, ***" motion. He flips me the bird then at the approaching stop sign, turns obliquely to the road and asks if I want to "get into it" with him. I say, no (I'm 68 years old, and 125lbs wet - I don't "get into it" with anybody) . . . but asked why he cut me off. He gets hot and aggressive and as he drives off, says . . ."next time I'll run you over."

Really astounding amount of bent up anger out there. Be careful folks.

[donevwil]

Glad you're OK. Nowadays that's a head back home moment for me. I've also stopped riding on weekday evenings due to the aggression so common around here after a workday.

[dddd]

Rager!

Where did this occur?

[Jmaxwel8]

Glad you're OK. Nowadays that's a head back home moment for me. I've also stopped riding on weekday evenings due to the aggression so common around here after a workday.

I agree. I’ve gotten very picky when and where I ride. If it’s the wrong part of the day I’ll just hit the mountain bike. I haven’t been threatened on a trail yet!

[AngryScientist]

That sucks. I can’t understand how easily people de-couple themselves from the other human that they are about to kill. It’s too easy to be a tough guy in a big truck. Glad you’re OK.

[thunderworks]

Rager!

Where did this occur?

Near Lawrence, KS

[Clean39T]

Glad you're okay.

Curious how old he was...

[thunderworks]

Just a guess, but early 40's perhaps . . .

[RC.]

Probably an Eagles fan.

[Ken Robb]

Near Lawrence, KS

Oh, he was probably a Sociology Professor. :)

[ntb1001]

Really hard to turn down an invite like that to vent your own frustrations....but sounds like you did the right thing.(I know I might not have been that sensible)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OtayBW]

Get license plate and call it in?

[thunderworks]

Get license plate and call it in?

No. Happened too quick.

[nesteel]

Well, here's to hoping someone takes him up on his offer. And kicks his ahole teeth down his throat.

[jambee]

I live in Germany. As I'm sure everyone know, we make cars.

I ride all the time. In the city, outside the city, on small country roads, on big heavy traffic roads.

The only time I read stories like this is from my U.S. American cycling friends. I have been told by drivers to follow the rules often here. Mostly, the drivers are correct - i was riding on the road where there was a bike lane.

But why are the lives of my U.S. American cyclist friends always in danger? What makes U.S. American drivers so aggressive?

Help my understand.

[bshell]

Proud ignorance.

[jambee]

Ignorance of what? The rules of the road? Freedom? Individual rights to be an individual?

U.S. America marketing has always been selling exactly these values.

False advertisement?

[SlowPokePete]

Get license plate and call it in?

About a month ago I was almost run off the road by an angry driver with horn blaring.

I sprinted, and caught, the car at a red light, took a picture, and called Westchester County Police...make/model/color of car and license plate number.

They basically told me there was nothing they could (would) do about it.

It still pisses me off that that was their response.

SPP

[dubrat]

We have exactly the same issues here in Australia...

Usually white tradesman utilities but also soccer mums that get held up for 2 mins on Saturday morning also

[godfrey1112000]

I guess rolling coal isn't so bad after all

When they stop I usually stay calm

Take a picture of the truck plate
And start telling him how I know all the local police
I see on the road

Then$&@# and drives off

My heart rate monitor records the high for the ride :eek:

[Peter P.]

About a month ago I was almost run off the road by an angry driver with horn blaring.

I sprinted, and caught, the car at a red light, took a picture, and called Westchester County Police...make/model/color of car and license plate number.

They basically told me there was nothing they could (would) do about it.

It still pisses me off that that was their response.

SPP

What did you expect? No witnesses and a "he said/she said" incident. The police have nothing to act on, and your photo tells them nothing other than you took a photo. I suppose this is where GoPros come in handy.

[oldpotatoe]

Get license plate and call it in?

Not saying that’s a bad idea but 2 things might happen...
-He’d take the police warning to heart(probably not)
-He’d be nice to the Leo but would get so pissed he would actually run a cyclist over...

Strange times...be prepared, be careful, pick your battles...

[mcteague]

Again with the pick-up drivers. The pattern continues.

Tim

[Bob Ross]

About a month ago I was almost run off the road by an angry driver with horn blaring.

I sprinted, and caught, the car at a red light, took a picture, and called Westchester County Police...make/model/color of car and license plate number.

They basically told me there was nothing they could (would) do about it.



Several years back I was riding south on Broadway up in Inwood (northernmost Manhattan) trying to get to Central Park for an early AM training ride. It's probably 5:15AM, pitch black, very little traffic. Car pulls up next to me and the passenger wings a half-full 32oz Slurpy at me, hitting me in the face.

I come to a stop. The car comes to a stop. I make note of their license plate, then do a quick 180° and ride back north. After a couple hundred yards I note that they have moved on, no longer stopped in the middle of the road. So I do another 180° and head back south, right to the police station. And I tell the desk sergeant this entire story, including the all-important license plate #.

And he tells me "Well, we can do two things. If you want to file an official complaint we can get started with the paperwork...but there's a lot of it, and then it'll take a long time for this to get anywhere near a courtroom. Or, I can have a couple of off-duty patrolmen pay this guy a visit and convince him why he should never do anything like this again. Your call."

:eek:


I -- perhaps foolishly -- asked for Option #2. I have no idea whether anyone followed up.

[echelon_john]

Because America is a land full of entitled, poorly educated, resentful, self-centered pricks who fear and hate the ‘other.’

[cderalow]

I live in Germany. As I'm sure everyone know, we make cars.

I ride all the time. In the city, outside the city, on small country roads, on big heavy traffic roads.

The only time I read stories like this is from my U.S. American cycling friends. I have been told by drivers to follow the rules often here. Mostly, the drivers are correct - i was riding on the road where there was a bike lane.

But why are the lives of my U.S. American cyclist friends always in danger? What makes U.S. American drivers so aggressive?

Help my understand.

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the US is a very car-centric country. We always have been. As a populace, we rely heavily upon cars and trucks as transportation, mainly due to distances in some parts of the country. Even in the suburbs of our larger cities, there are still significant distances to cover to get to the nearest grocery store, market etc. In addition to that, our mass transportation systems (rail, subway, bus) are nowhere near as extensive or efficient as they are in Europe.

For example, my commute.

If i were to travel using solely public transportation, it would take the following: 3 min walk to nearest bus stop, 21 min bus ride to the nearest metro station, 2 min walk at the metro station from bus drop to subway train, 26 min subway ride, then either a 10 minute walk, or a transfer to a bus for 3 minutes and a 2 minute walk.

$6.20 and a hour of my time if I don't have to wait for any of the transport modes. Unfortunately, our system isn't as efficient and on-time as the ones in Europe, so add 2-10 minutes wait to each transfer... so really 1.5 to 2 hours is possible.

$12.40 and 3-4 hours of my time

If I drive, it is 16 miles door to door, typically 40 minutes on average in the morning and a hour home in the evening due to traffic. With my fuel efficient car, around $1.30 each way in gas, but then $15 to park all day near my office.

$17.60 and 1.66 hours of my time

If I ride, I have to take a slightly different route, but it's still 16 miles, about half on multi-use paths and half on road. With my typical average speed, it takes anywhere from 50-60 minutes, dependent upon traffic lights on the road sections. Bike parking in my office is free, as is the use of the fitness center/locker room in my building.

$0 and 2 hours of my time


I routinely get looks of amazement when I ride my bike into my office during the summer. The concept that you could cover that by bicycle in the same (or similar) amount of time in this area is dumbfounding to some people. For some reason our population has this notion that cars are the end all/be all of transportation and to do otherwise makes you some sort of outlier.



Cycling is also seen as an oddball hobby here rather than a legitimate form of sport. I always get a chuckle from people who will consider golf as a 'sport' but then look at me like I'm crazy when I consider cycling as more than just some sort of exercise done inside a gym on a stationary bike.

I'd wager OP's truck driver would see nothing wrong with someone going and and playing 18 holes, or fishing (both of which I'd consider hobbies on the individual/non-professional level rather than 'sport').


In summary; cars rule in the US, and people have stupid opinions on 'sports'

[OtayBW]

About a month ago I was almost run off the road by an angry driver with horn blaring.

I sprinted, and caught, the car at a red light, took a picture, and called Westchester County Police...make/model/color of car and license plate number.

They basically told me there was nothing they could (would) do about it.

It still pisses me off that that was their response.

SPP

Not saying that’s a bad idea but 2 things might happen...
-He’d take the police warning to heart(probably not)
-He’d be nice to the Leo but would get so pissed he would actually run a cyclist over...

Strange times...be prepared, be careful, pick your battles...

To the OP and SPP and OP, I'm really thinking of 2 points here:

1) I often do a small game when I ride where I take a 'mental snapshot' of a license plate to practice memory retention. You can get better at recall, even when in a moment of freak-out, and
2) I agree that calling the number in will often lead to apathy or no result from the police - particularly if there are no witnesses - but if the a$$hole is on record and this becomes repeated behavior, you may actually help with some action against him later on.

I also agree that the chance is that you might 'poke the bear', but for me, it's the right thing to do. I also suspect that many folks would call it in if they had a video or a witness of the event. If a guy (sorry, we don't want to exclude the ladies...;) is so whack-ed out that he will do this kind of crap, he needs some push-back, IMO, not a sense of tacit consent. It's part of my no bully, 'BeBest' Campaign.....:rolleyes:

[William]

Because America is a land full of entitled, poorly educated, resentful, self-centered pricks who fear and hate the ‘other.’

If you think about the number of times vehicles pass you on every ride with no incident at all then you realize statistically it doesn't happen that much.

That being said, this applies to every part of the world, there are good people, there are a-holes, and there are truly evil people.


Stay safe out there.






William

[rlanger]

That being said, this applies to every part of the world, there are good people, there are a-holes, and there are truly evil people.

I'll feel fortunate to live in a country where this type of thing never happens. Confrontation is definitely frowned upon here.

Sure, I've had a number of close encounters with drivers, since I ride my bike almost everyday. But drivers here generally go out of there way to give cyclists as much room as possible when passing.

I think I'd be afraid to ride in much of the US.

[oldpotatoe]

Because America is a land full of entitled, poorly educated, resentful, self-centered pricks who fear and hate the ‘other.’

What he said.....about 39% or so...

[Tickdoc]

I had a similar brush with an suv this summer. I don't know how she could get any closer and NOT hit me. I caught her at the light. Enraged, I pounded on the passenger window and startled her from her phone. I was fuming and yelling and she gave me this incredulous look like "What?". Clueless. In hindsight I should've just stopped at her window and let her roll the window down because she heard none of my tirade and drove off when the light changed. I had my rear blinkie on, and was very close to the shoulder giving plenty of room to pass. There was an oncoming car in this instance and she should've slowed to pass safely, but I suspect she was on her phone the whole time and was totally unaware of my presence.

Just smile and wave is my usual response to angered drivers. I am usually an extremely calm and not ill-tempered person at all, but this incident just enraged me because it was so close to a hit. Adrenaline pumping, I'm afraid it would end up all elbows and a-holes in your instance. Buddy of mine who rides gravel will pack a .38 for long country rides out in methville. I really don't want that responsibility.

We don't live that far from each other and I suspect we come across the same type of individuals on a regular basis. Most of the time it is no problem. What kills me is people don't get mad when they have to slow for a piece of farm equipment or a wide load, but a cyclist or a group of cyclist makes them so mad.

I think the problem is compounded somewhat because we can be not always in the right frame of mind on say mile 60 of a hot day and our riding judgement can suffer with exhaustion. At least mine can.

Glad your safe and watch out.

[Mikej]

Glad you got out of it without incident. I am on the 100% ignore, stop and turn around plan. I've found that I can escalate a situation like that into nothing good in no time flat. Then, I am all wound up for days, and its not worth it - oh, and I don't have to be on a bike to follow the 100% ignore rule, anywhere anytime for me, I just say ok and turn around. This was after a guy pulled a gun on me at a gas station because I heard my phone text and pulled it out of my pocket. Guy thought that blows up gas stations, I said no it doesn't, so he pulls a piece -

[OtayBW]

This was after a guy pulled a gun on me at a gas station because I heard my phone text and pulled it out of my pocket. Guy thought that blows up gas stations, I said no it doesn't, so he pulls a piece -You should have blown him up. Just saying....;)

[Ozz]

I am always astounded that some people are in such a frickin' hurry that they would risk killing someone, yet have plenty of time to then stop and vent about how much said person was slowing them down / in their way......:cool:

[brownhound]

I live in Germany. As I'm sure everyone know, we make cars.

I ride all the time. In the city, outside the city, on small country roads, on big heavy traffic roads.

The only time I read stories like this is from my U.S. American cycling friends. I have been told by drivers to follow the rules often here. Mostly, the drivers are correct - i was riding on the road where there was a bike lane.

But why are the lives of my U.S. American cyclist friends always in danger? What makes U.S. American drivers so aggressive?

Help my understand.

I've only driven a little in Germany on holiday. But something surprised me there: Americans have the impression that the autobahn is like the US Interstate highway system, except you can drive as fast as you like.

However, I found it was much more variable. Yes, there were cars going very fast in the left lane. But anything slower had to move to the right lane. If you were driving 180 km/hr., and someone came up behind you at 200 km/hr., you were to move to the right immediately. And in the right lane, there would be busses or even farm vehicles going slow. In other words, you might have to slow to 50 km/hr. Drivers seemed to understand and tolerate this. And absolutely no passing on the right! (I nearly triggered road rage doing that.)

German drivers were expected to follow rules closely and to expect a wide variety of transport at different speeds.

In America, we have a very limited view of roads. They are for cars only, with a very narrow range of speeds. Even large trucks bother drivers, and they're only going 10 km/hr slower. And cars are expected to be able to drive with much freedom -- passing on the right is okay, weaving in and out is okay, etc. Even though the laws allows farm vehicles or bicycles on the roads, drivers feel as if these are intrusions.

In America, it's something more like the Third World than Europe on the roads. And that makes it slightly more dangerous.

Add to that, cycling is seem something adults shouldn't do. And if they do it, they should be on paths, not the road. And if they are on the road, cyclists act as if they belong there, which is not consistent with the American view of roads.

[jambee]

I've only driven a little in Germany on holiday. But something surprised me there: Americans have the impression that the autobahn is like the US Interstate highway system, except you can drive as fast as you like.

However, I found it was much more variable. Yes, there were cars going very fast in the left lane. But anything slower had to move to the right lane. If you were driving 180 km/hr., and someone came up behind you at 200 km/hr., you were to move to the right immediately.


Actually....the left lane is for overtaking only. The middle lane is where you drive and the right lane is for slower vehicles and getting in and out of traffic. You do not want to drive in the right lane.

Don't get me wrong, we have drivers here that do not love the fact that they have to share the road, but in all my 15 years of living here, no one ever screamed at me or threatened my life. If you driver over someone that is a very serious felony.

[GregL]

My $0.02: always report dangerous/illegal driving to the police. I have found that a polite and reasonable report to the police is usually met with a polite and reasonable response. The one time in my years of cycling that a driver overtly, deliberately threatened me, the police were very supportive. I provided the vehicle make, model, color, and license plate number to the police. The police quickly identified the driver. The investigating officer told me that based on his interaction with the driver, he had no doubt that my report was accurate. He couldn't charge the driver without supporting evidence, but he warned him that his behavior was unacceptable and that they local police would be "keeping an eye on him." Under the circumstances, I was pleased with the outcome.

Greg

[Gummee]

I am always astounded that some people are in such a frickin' hurry that they would risk killing someone, yet have plenty of time to then stop and vent about how much said person was slowing them down / in their way......:cool:It isn't that they're in a hurry per se, just that you're 'in their way.'

You're the funny looking spandex-clad [sexual preference slur deleted] that doesn't deserve respect for riding a kid's toy on their road.

Moto riders get some of the same treatment. Moto riders are 'risk takers out riding their toys' rather than humans...

Till cycling and riding motos are considered valid forms of transportation here in the US, we'll keep having those kinds of problems

M

edited to add: I bought a $30 camera from Amazon recently, but haven't mounted it. May have to change that

[cash05458]

I am a Freudian...I even have degrees to prove it! My semi educated guess is that he wants to sleep with you...:banana::banana:

[tctyres]

About a month ago I was almost run off the road by an angry driver with horn blaring. ...

They basically told me there was nothing they could (would) do about it.

It still pisses me off that that was their response.

SPP

Ask them to send a cruiser through the area to check it out. I had a similar incident in Rockland Co, across the Hudson. They said they would send a cruiser through. Generally, if people know an area is patrolled, then this kind of thing goes away.



And he tells me "Well, we can do two things. If you want to file an official complaint we can get started with the paperwork...but there's a lot of it, and then it'll take a long time for this to get anywhere near a courtroom. Or, I can have a couple of off-duty patrolmen pay this guy a visit and convince him why he should never do anything like this again. Your call."


I would have taken option #2, too, unless I had photos or a video recording. You don't know what is going to be more effective, but in terms of your time, #2 is all on them.

If you think about the number of times vehicles pass you on every ride with no incident at all then you realize statistically it doesn't happen that much.


Honestly, even the aggressive honkers are few and far between, and that's probably the most common thing a bad driver would do. If you are picking your line well in advance, the honking never gets to you.

Most drivers are actually pretty good. For all the bad drivers, I've probably had almost as many good drivers stop when I had a flat or whatever. I even had a guy offer me a couple of water bottles at a light one hot summer day ... just because.

[jemoryl]

If you think about the number of times vehicles pass you on every ride with no incident at all then you realize statistically it doesn't happen that much.

That being said, this applies to every part of the world, there are good people, there are a-holes, and there are truly evil people.

Stay safe out there.

William

Yes, but what about this? Where I ride, in northern NJ, I have noticed an increase in the number of drivers who cut really close to me, even when there is no reason. No swearing, beeping or other bad behavior. Malice or too busy screwing around with a phone? IDK.

To answer our German friend's question: this has become an increasingly angry society, filled with self-centered people who often think confrontation and violence is the best way to settle things. You only need to look at.....never mind!

[William]

Yes, but what about this? Where I ride, in northern NJ, I have noticed an increase in the number of drivers who cut really close to me, even when there is no reason. No swearing, beeping or other bad behavior. Malice or too busy screwing around with a phone? IDK.

To answer our German friend's question: this has become an increasingly angry society, filled with self-centered people who often think confrontation and violence is the best way to settle things. You only need to look at.....never mind!

One can argue that distracted driving = self centered, and I won't argue against more distracted drivers because I do believe there are more. I was commenting more on the "hate and violence" part, which as I said earlier, is statistically low compared to how many drivers you are exposed to on every ride.







William

[tv_vt]

I did a 70 mile ride last week. One guy passed me pretty close. When I caught up to him at a stop sign, he seemed to be waiting for me as there were no cars coming from the other directions. I went ahead and looked back at him and of course he flipped me off. I just smiled and laughed. It was so predictable.

It's unfortunate that of all the cars that passed me in the 70 mile ride, this one is the one I remember. Statistically it's a real outlier. 99.9% of people out there are considerate. Just remember that. Yeah, it's that 0.1% that really bothers you, but it's not the norm. Who knows what was going on with that guy that day, but it's not just about you on a bike riding down the road. That person was pissed before you came along.

I've also thought at times that being a type of minority on the road is a little lesson in how other minorities are treated, only we're not treated nearly so badly. Most of us are white males and we're used to having our way. Being treated as a not-so-privileged minority can be a real lesson in how others have to navigate through life as minorities. It's not easy.

I will throw this out there, too. I ride with an Italian Bike Mirror on the end of my left handlebar drop. So I can see cars coming most of the time. I practice the 'stupid drunk cyclist' routine all the time when there are cars approaching a little too close. I ride like I'm a total noobie and swerve unpredictably into the road every now and then as if I'm dodging potholes (when cars are a bit behind me but not right behind me). It often wakes up the driver - 'whoa, what is that idiot cyclist doing?' and they move over just to stay away from the idiot (me). If you ride like the seasoned pro you actually are and stick to a perfect line up the right side of the road, they don't notice you and/or they think they can cut it really close cuz you are riding a perfectly straight line down the road. Well, don't. Be a little unpredictable so they notice you. It does work. If they honk their horn at you, all the better - you've got their attention.

[jemoryl]

One can argue that distracted driving = self centered, and I won't argue against more distracted drivers because I do believe there are more. I was commenting more on the "hate and violence" part, which as I said earlier, is statistically low compared to how many drivers you are exposed to on every ride.


William

I sometimes expect it is deliberate, by the way they are driving close to the double yellow before and move out further into the center of the lane after passing. It almost seems like a "I'll give this wuss a scare!" thing. Happened to me twice just this past Tuesday.

[BobO]

I am a Freudian...I even have degrees to prove it! My semi educated guess is that he wants to sleep with you...:banana::banana:

Thank you, I needed a good laugh this morning.

[Mzilliox]

I live in Germany. As I'm sure everyone know, we make cars.

I ride all the time. In the city, outside the city, on small country roads, on big heavy traffic roads.

The only time I read stories like this is from my U.S. American cycling friends. I have been told by drivers to follow the rules often here. Mostly, the drivers are correct - i was riding on the road where there was a bike lane.

But why are the lives of my U.S. American cyclist friends always in danger? What makes U.S. American drivers so aggressive?

Help my understand.

Because we are bullies. this is what i have learned about this country this last year. we are straight up bullies and like it. its the same reasons we like guns so much, it makes us feel real tough and invincible. I think at the end of the day we are simply cultural angry teenagers who have no idea what we want to be when we grow up and the world is like changing real fast and its hard and scary.

other countries have already gone trough all this identity crisis crap and have realized living in harmony is simply easier and less draining than always being defensive.

can you tell im ready to move to a culture who understand life? we certainly dont here in the USA. we understand productivity, but not life.

[William]

Because we are bullies. this is what i have learned about this country this last year. we are straight up bullies and like it. its the same reasons we like guns so much, it makes us feel real tough and invincible. I think at the end of the day we are simply cultural angry teenagers who have no idea what we want to be when we grow up and the world is like changing real fast and its hard and scary.



Straight up disagree.

This thread started as an experience with an a-hole driver, please keep it on topic. It's starting to diverge into political/racial commentary.








William

[Mzilliox]

I did a 70 mile ride last week. One guy passed me pretty close. When I caught up to him at a stop sign, he seemed to be waiting for me as there were no cars coming from the other directions. I went ahead and looked back at him and of course he flipped me off. I just smiled and laughed. It was so predictable.

It's unfortunate that of all the cars that passed me in the 70 mile ride, this one is the one I remember. Statistically it's a real outlier. 99.9% of people out there are considerate. Just remember that. Yeah, it's that 0.1% that really bothers you, but it's not the norm. Who knows what was going on with that guy that day, but it's not just about you on a bike riding down the road. That person was pissed before you came along.

I've also thought at times that being a type of minority on the road is a little lesson in how other minorities are treated, only we're not treated nearly so badly. Most of us are white males and we're used to having our way. Being treated as a not-so-privileged minority can be a real lesson in how others have to navigate through life as minorities. It's not easy.

I will throw this out there, too. I ride with an Italian Bike Mirror on the end of my left handlebar drop. So I can see cars coming most of the time. I practice the 'stupid drunk cyclist' routine all the time when there are cars approaching a little too close. I ride like I'm a total noobie and swerve unpredictably into the road every now and then as if I'm dodging potholes (when cars are a bit behind me but not right behind me). It often wakes up the driver - 'whoa, what is that idiot cyclist doing?' and they move over just to stay away from the idiot (me). If you ride like the seasoned pro you actually are and stick to a perfect line up the right side of the road, they don't notice you and/or they think they can cut it really close cuz you are riding a perfectly straight line down the road. Well, don't. Be a little unpredictable so they notice you. It does work. If they honk their horn at you, all the better - you've got their attention.

I ride drunken when riding with my wife. i always stay behind and when cars approach use your wiggle moves. This seems to cause them to slow and react. ill always take a honk, and return it with a wave.

[Mzilliox]

hahahaha:banana:

[William]

hahahaha:banana:

Yeah, I think :banana: is funny too.






William

[coreyaugustus]

150 lbs on two wheels will never beat 2 tons on four in a standoff, so not getting into a physical confrontation is the best course of action for all parties involved. Just sucks having to be the calmer, reasonable party when the other one has an butt-kicking coming his way.

I think the most American thing to do is to start riding with a gun in the back pocket of your jersey. lol

[unterhausen]

And he tells me "Well, we can do two things. If you want to file an official complaint we can get started with the paperwork...but there's a lot of it, and then it'll take a long time for this to get anywhere near a courtroom. Or, I can have a couple of off-duty patrolmen pay this guy a visit and convince him why he should never do anything like this again. Your call."
There was a guy near here that was harassing cyclists on a regular basis. Coal rolling, close passing. He apparently would wait for cyclists to go by and then go harass them. Unfortunately for him, he lived next door to the parents of one of the guys that owns the LBS. They recognized the vehicle. Next thing you know there were 5 cop cars parked out front of the guy's house and they had a come to Jesus meeting. I really don't see anything wrong with this, there have been no further incidents.

He lives on PA state bike route G.

[William]

There was a guy near here that was harassing cyclists on a regular basis. Coal rolling, close passing. He apparently would wait for cyclists to go by and then go harass them. Unfortunately for him, he lived next door to the parents of one of the guys that owns the LBS. They recognized the vehicle. Next thing you know there were 5 cop cars parked out front of the guy's house and they had a come to Jesus meeting. I really don't see anything wrong with this, there have been no further incidents.

.

:banana:







William

[coreyaugustus]

Coal rolling, close passing. He apparently would wait for cyclists to go by and then go harass them.

I get why people would harass cyclists. Some just want to watch the world burn and cyclists are easy targets.

But the rolling coal thing... I really just don't understand. Here, let me inject more fuel than the cyclinders can combust, waste it out the exhaust, and make a huge mess all over everything including any portion of my truck that is aft of the exhausts. Then once that's done, I'll complain about the price of diesel. ***.

[Gummee]

In all these 'doom and gloom' scenarios our German friend is reading what we're missing telling him are the 99% of the people pass us safely.

Yeah, that ONE idiot stands out, but for the most part, people are pretty good.

Unlike GER tho, our standard of driving falls woefully short of the mark. It's not easy to get a license in GER. ...and it's very expensive. Here? Just try denying someone a license!

Lane discipline? What's that?!

etc

M

[RC.]

150 lbs on two wheels will never beat 2 tons on four in a standoff, so not getting into a physical confrontation is the best course of action for all parties involved. Just sucks having to be the calmer, reasonable party when the other one has an butt-kicking coming his way.

I think the most American thing to do is to start riding with a gun in the back pocket of your jersey. lol

Exactly this! If someone loses their mind in this scenario and they happen to be behind a 2-4 ton vehicle, you are never going to win that war.

[William]

In all these 'doom and gloom' scenarios our German friend is reading what we're missing telling him are the 99% of the people pass us safely.

Yeah, that ONE idiot stands out, but for the most part, people are pretty good...



M

Yes, the news would be pretty boring if they reported daily that 325.6 million people in the U.S. today went about their business living their lives and didn't get into trouble. It is the small minority of trouble makers that get the attention on a daily basis skewing the optics.







William


Oh, and PS: :banana:

[BobO]

Exactly this! If someone loses their mind in this scenario and they happen to be behind a 2-4 ton vehicle, you are never going to win that war.

That's why you find out where they live and slash their tires while they sleep. :p




Joking.

[donevwil]

Threads like this bring back the memory of the one and only time I've been "bumped" off the road by a vehicle. I've shared it before, late '90's fendered off Hwy 1 north of Pt Reyes Station by a Marin County Sherriff.

You want to feel helpless? Try pursuing justice in such an instance. Just like doctors, LEOs look after their own.

[Matthew]

At least he didn't turn around and come straight at you like a dick head did to our group ride last summer. Caused a wreck in our group after a couple riders touched their brakes thinking this guy was going to plow our group. And no, he didn't stop. Probably laughed. Trip to the E.R. for one of our riders. I happened to be on the front of the group too. Talk about scary.

[pincopallinobis]

Threads like this bring back the memory of the one and only time I've been "bumped" off the road by a vehicle. I've shared it before, late '90's fendered off Hwy 1 north of Pt Reyes Station by a Marin County Sherriff.

You want to feel helpless? Try pursuing justice in such an instance. Just like doctors, LEOs look after their own.

At least he didn't turn around and come straight at you like a dick head did to our group ride last summer. Caused a wreck in our group after a couple riders touched their brakes thinking this guy was going to plow our group. And no, he didn't stop. Probably laughed. Trip to the E.R. for one of our riders. I happened to be on the front of the group too. Talk about scary.First, I'm glad to read the op is OK, as that sounds like a very scary confrontation. And as Matthew just posted, it could have been much worse. Thankfully not.



To the question that Jambee raised and which a few members have already addressed: Having ridden in the USA and in Europe, I find the USA (especially more recently) to be much more frightening and dangerous than Europe, in general. Of course true car/bicycle accidents happen everywhere, and cities are dangerous no matter where, but malicious intent/visible threats did feel higher there.

There also seemed to be less demonstrated respect for cyclists (maybe all non-motorists) in the USA, at least in my experience. The potential-for-violence aspect just felt higher. At least a couple of the replies in this thread are also pretty violent in sentiment. Those people also drive cars, I assume.

Once, I also had a very similar experience to what donevwil posted just above, with a (USA) policeman. He did not actually hit me with his car, but certainly did threaten to do so, screaming at me at length. A policeman, in a car. I was terrified, shaking afterwards all day. But, all that may just be where I was (unfortunate enough to be) riding, and I prefer to hope that vast areas of the USA are very safe to ride (roads), with courteous and aware drivers.



The numbers below are of course not citing only death by motor vehicle on bicycle (do such numbers even exist?), and of course statistics are often so misleading but apparently:
Road fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants per year: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate)
World: 17.4
Americas: 15.9
Europe: 9.3

Specifically to this forum location and Jambee's:
USA: 10.6
Germany: 4.3
This seems like a significant difference.

(The worst countries in the world are around 30.0, though!)

[Johnnysmooth]

I live in Germany. As I'm sure everyone know, we make cars.

I ride all the time. In the city, outside the city, on small country roads, on big heavy traffic roads.

The only time I read stories like this is from my U.S. American cycling friends. I have been told by drivers to follow the rules often here. Mostly, the drivers are correct - i was riding on the road where there was a bike lane.

But why are the lives of my U.S. American cyclist friends always in danger? What makes U.S. American drivers so aggressive?

Help my understand.

I've been commuting by bike for most of my working career here in Boston (33yrs). I've also lived in Europe (Vienna) for a time. Some observations:

US is very car centric to the point that many drivers believe we should be riding on sidewalks, not the roadways. This has changed in recent years, but not enough. In Europe, cyclists are to be expected on the roadways and drivers give heed to them.

In US, cycling is not seen as a utility means of transportation, but rather as a sport and some of those red neck truck drivers here in the states really can't stand cyclists as they are perceived as elitist. Cycling in Europe is truly utilitarian. Remember many a ride in Vienna where I would pass women in their 70s & 80s riding their bike with baskets in a dress to the local market. Have seen men in three piece suits and black leather shoes as well commuting with briefcase strap on rear rack.

Sad to say, we simply do not have the same culture of cycling in the US as you do in Europe. Not once during my year in Vienna did I experience an aggressive driver. While it is improving in the US, I still encounter aggression aimed at cyclists (me in particular) at least once a month.

[choke]

I live in Germany. As I'm sure everyone know, we make cars.

I ride all the time. In the city, outside the city, on small country roads, on big heavy traffic roads.

The only time I read stories like this is from my U.S. American cycling friends. I have been told by drivers to follow the rules often here. Mostly, the drivers are correct - i was riding on the road where there was a bike lane.

But why are the lives of my U.S. American cyclist friends always in danger? What makes U.S. American drivers so aggressive?

Help my understand.As some of the others have said, we have a car culture. In essence that puts the car and its driver at the top of the food chain when it comes to the road. Drivers see themselves as the ultimate owners of the road and feel that they can do as they please.

We also have very poor driver training compared to Germany so that doesn't help. I lived in Germany for almost two years and the people there are far better at the task of driving. Though it was a very long time ago I can still remember the first time I drove in the US after living in Germany....I was appalled at how badly the rest of the people on the road were driving. Even though I had driven in the US before living in Germany I hadn't really noticed it then...but two years of German roads made it very plain to see.

[Seramount]

motorists I encounter that cause problems are...

a) poorly-skilled at controlling their vehicle (specifically teenagers, the elderly, and women in SUVs)

b) distracted (on their phone, eating, talking with passengers, etc etc)

c) ignorant to the rules of the road (don't know who has the ROW at intersections, cyclists are entitled to use the road, etc)

d) aggressive, offended by other road users, and trying to assert their 'importance'

[R3awak3n]

I did not read every single post and its interesting I was talking to my wife about this today. But what is interesting, and I read a few people mention pick up trucks, up here in upstate newyork (or mid state as some would prefer) I realized there is no point judging anyone by what they drive. This is the boonies, plenty of trucks, they are lifted, loud, camoed out and I have had more bad experiences with people in mercedes and volvos than on big pick up trucks.

Most pick ups go on the other lane when they pass me, I have been seriously astonished, while I had just the other day a mercedes pass so close to me unnecessarily.

It sucks this has happened to you, it has happened to me too. I pulled up to this asshole at the light and he sat there reving his stupid audi s4 engine and then peeling off. F that guy and the guy today that almost run you over.

[Scuzzer]

motorists I encounter that cause problems are...

a) poorly-skilled at controlling their vehicle (specifically teenagers, the elderly, and women in SUVs)

b) distracted (on their phone, eating, talking with passengers, etc etc)

c) ignorant to the rules of the road (don't know who has the ROW at intersections, cyclists are entitled to use the road, etc)

d) aggressive, offended by other road users, and trying to assert their 'importance'

I'm going with B,C,A,D in my neck of the woods. I figure if I'm taken out on the road it will be a teenager on their phone. To refute the idea that somehow something politically has changed the narrative recently, my worst encounter on the road was with the F150 driving union leader at the factory I worked. He didn't recognize me and gave me the brush off about a mile from our facility.

The second worst was a woman driving a Toyota minivan with a Coexist sticker on the back and her kid in a car seat. Seriously.

Third worst was a drunk guy driving a toxic gas spewing '72 delta 88 a few years back. I can't really derive political motives from these.

[BobO]

The second worst was a woman driving a Toyota minivan with a Coexist sticker on the back and her kid in a car seat. Seriously.


Prius. Almost all of my close calls have been with Prius drivers on the phone and most have at least one enlightened sticker.

[jtakeda]

About a month ago I was almost run off the road by an angry driver with horn blaring.

I sprinted, and caught, the car at a red light, took a picture, and called Westchester County Police...make/model/color of car and license plate number.

They basically told me there was nothing they could (would) do about it.

It still pisses me off that that was their response.

SPP

I had a driver cut me off. Then enter a “do not enter” area (bicycles were permitted) and then pulled out a can of mace and repeatedly asked me “you want some? You want some”

The police said they could do nothing because he didn’t actually mace me.

I’m hoping I run into that car again...

[thwart]

Prius. Almost all of my close calls have been with Prius drivers on the phone and most have at least one enlightened sticker.

FWIW, tons of Prius hereabouts and the malicious interactions (like the one experienced by the OP) I've experienced with motorists have been primarily with:

1) pick up drivers
2) muscle car drivers
3) Harley riders

There've been some apparently unintended close calls with others... maybe one or two with someone driving a Prius.

... and I've had at least two rides home when I've broken down with pick up drivers.

[jemoryl]

FWIW, tons of Prius hereabouts and the malicious interactions (like the one experienced by the OP) I've experienced with motorists have been primarily with:

1) pick up drivers
2) muscle car drivers
3) Harley riders

There've been some apparently unintended close calls with others... maybe one or two with someone driving a Prius.

... and I've had at least two rides home when I've broken down with pick up drivers.

Oddly enough, not many problems with NJ Prius drivers. I do keep mental notes on the type of cars that have caused me problems:

1) Audis (by a large margin - surprisingly not MBs or BMWs)
2) diesel Dodge trucks (Often black and, ironically, with those respect law enforcement flag stickers. They would probably roll coal if it were legal here)
3) Teslas (used to be Japanese minivans with soccer moms at #3).

[Scuzzer]

FWIW, tons of Prius hereabouts and the malicious interactions (like the one experienced by the OP) I've experienced with motorists have been primarily with:

1) pick up drivers
2) muscle car drivers
3) Harley riders

There've been some apparently unintended close calls with others... maybe one or two with someone driving a Prius.

... and I've had at least two rides home when I've broken down with pick up drivers.

I'm going 2,3,1 here. From my area it was Mustang 5.0 guys, guys on Harley's that purposely broke my hearing (but didn't threaten to knock me off) and pickup drivers.

The guys that thought they had a sports car and seemed to need to prove it. The guys that had the loudest motorcycle evar that needed to prove it right next to me and douchebags in pickups.

The worst long term was actually the stupid Harley guys since their ridiculous noise messed up my hearing for hours. And I suffer from tinnitus.

I'm still more afraid of teenagers on phones.

[Scuzzer]

Those are very rare though. I was astonished by the number of cars that stopped when my cycling buddy went down due to road repairs that had ground the surface down unevenly. He went down at 20mph and there were at least 5 cars that stopped instantly to help and provide assistance. None were necessary, the dude is tough as hell as rode in the last 10 miles.

[paredown]

I live in Germany. As I'm sure everyone know, we make cars.

I ride all the time. In the city, outside the city, on small country roads, on big heavy traffic roads.

The only time I read stories like this is from my U.S. American cycling friends. I have been told by drivers to follow the rules often here. Mostly, the drivers are correct - i was riding on the road where there was a bike lane.

But why are the lives of my U.S. American cyclist friends always in danger? What makes U.S. American drivers so aggressive?

Help my understand.
Having lived in Germany for a couple of years, one thing that is impressive (coming from the US) is that drivers actually obey road signs. "Slow to 50kph" or whatever--so in congested areas, even most drivers with 'hot' cars are driving the speed limits. Not so in the US--I ride on country roads that have become a cut through for commuter traffic--speed limit is posted 30 mph/35 mph and I would say the average speed on this narrow two lane road with no real shoulders is around 50 mph.

The second thing that Germany has is a real driver's education system, test and training. A lot of drivers in the US are very bad, under-trained and under-informed. They have had very little training in accident avoidance, don't know where their "corners" are on their vehicles and have been brought up driving cars that barely require them to be awake while driving.

It's not just cyclists that they are hitting.

The sad comment on the average US driver is that a good number of the people that my wife worked with (from the US) were too afraid to drive on the Autobahn--where to me it was a dream come true--no passing on the wrong side, no tailgating, very clear rules about what to do and not to do, and you could drive at the speed you felt comfortable with.

[Ozz]

Rather than bashing / labeling drivers by the types of cars they drive (I am sure there are plenty of considerate drivers that own pick ups and Priuses), I will venture to say that the one thing the anti-bike car drivers have in common is some sort of arrested emotional development and impulse control issues.

Or maybe they are just stupid and mean.

[gemship]

Rather than bashing / labeling drivers by the types of cars they drive (I am sure there are plenty of considerate drivers that own pick ups and Priuses), I will venture to say that the one thing the anti-bike car drivers have in common is some sort of arrested emotional development and impulse control issues.

Or maybe they are just stupid and mean.

Impulse control I see a correlation to instant gratification.

[Tony]

Not 500 yard into my evening ride, a guy in a pickup passes, really close. No one coming from the other direction. I was approximately 3' from the side of the road . . . He pulls in right in front of me and I veer towards the side to give him more room.

I give a "palm's up, ***" motion. He flips me the bird then at the approaching stop sign, turns obliquely to the road and asks if I want to "get into it" with him. I say, no (I'm 68 years old, and 125lbs wet - I don't "get into it" with anybody) . . . but asked why he cut me off. He gets hot and aggressive and as he drives off, says . . ."next time I'll run you over."

Really astounding amount of bent up anger out there. Be careful folks.

I witnessed something similar today in a Home Depo parking lot.
Was loading several bags of bark when I heard someone yell out, slow down.
I turned around and it was a pedestrian crossing the front of the store into the gardening section. The man in the truck stopped quickly, stuck his head out the window and asked the guy "do you want your a$$ kicked".
I'm not sure it's bent up anger. Some people are just sh!!ty people.

[pasadena]

American politics, marketing and media peddle in fear.
Fear breeds anger.

There are a lot of scared, angry people living a myopic life. The only measure of control they feel is in a car. And threatening the life of another without penalty fits perfectly with that mentality.

I live in Germany. As I'm sure everyone know, we make cars.

I ride all the time. In the city, outside the city, on small country roads, on big heavy traffic roads.

The only time I read stories like this is from my U.S. American cycling friends. I have been told by drivers to follow the rules often here. Mostly, the drivers are correct - i was riding on the road where there was a bike lane.

But why are the lives of my U.S. American cyclist friends always in danger? What makes U.S. American drivers so aggressive?

Help my understand.

[thunderworks]

OP here . . . I never thought my experience would generate this many responses. All interesting.

Reading everyone's response has helped me focus my own interpretation of what is going on culturally that has created this quick fuse, aggressive, and anger laden response.

IMO, we have become an "entitled", myopic culture. People feel entitled to whatever they want, the instant they want it . . . more room to drive on the roads, more money, more "things" that represent the good life that has been marketed to us as consumers in a capitalist economic culture, more free time, more . . . more . . . more - of everything.

The reality though for most of us, is that the life we feel entitled to, is becoming more and more elusive. A few people get richer all the time. Most of us don't. It's easy for me to imagine that "resentment" arises as we work harder, but don't get any closer to the marketed image of life in America. That resentment focuses on the notion that someone else got what you were entitled to, and that resentment fuels anger.

The disparity of opportunity within our culture feeds all of this.

[merlinmurph]

I live in Germany. As I'm sure everyone know, we make cars.

I ride all the time. In the city, outside the city, on small country roads, on big heavy traffic roads.

The only time I read stories like this is from my U.S. American cycling friends. I have been told by drivers to follow the rules often here. Mostly, the drivers are correct - i was riding on the road where there was a bike lane.

But why are the lives of my U.S. American cyclist friends always in danger? What makes U.S. American drivers so aggressive?

Help my understand.


I wish I could tell you. The current political climate doesn't help things either.

Generally, there seems to be a self-absorbed, "me me me", screw everybody else, it's all about me, type of attitude that has taken over.

I live in the semi-boonies, about 26 miles west of Boston, where we have these wonderful rolly, curvy country roads with very little traffic. But, I avoid riding on some of those roads after 4 PM because commuters take this attitude to the max.

Murph

[Dino Suegiù]

Besides all the reasons cited, it seems that all the new features built into modern cars to make them appear extremely safe...like the car commercial I saw where the happy family stops within 1 meter of a truck and a deer...ironically contribute to even more lack of concentration and laziness on the part of drivers, even more false security.

I bet that in the other 9 to 999 instances those commercials do not show, something bad happens to the car, the deer, the truck, or even all of them. But, somehow people want to be told and believe they will be safer, even if they are not concentrating. :confused: