John Adams had it right....

[67-59]

At the risk of getting this thread deleted, just wanted to add my political .02.

Adams was strongly opposed to the development of political parties, and yesterday demonstrated why he may have been right. Republican vs. Democrat has created an "us vs. them" divisiveness, where most voters oppose a particular candidate just because he/she belongs to the "wrong" party. After all, yesterday's backlash against the Republicans was largely due to the acts of a few. So Bush doesn't get us out of the war quickly enough, and the result is some Republican mayoral candidate in Podunk, Alaska doesn't get elected, even if he/she might be the best candidate? Clinton finds novel uses for cigars, and some equally worthy Democrat loses his/her election bid? More and more, I talk to people who simply vote the straight party ticket, without really knowing (or caring) anything about the individual candidates. We need to rethink this whole party system folks, and force/allow each candidate to stand on his/her merits. Just a thought....

[Brian Smith]

At the risk of getting this thread deleted, just wanted to add my political .02.



Thanks, your change is $.02.
Quit it.

[JohnS]

You're absolutely right. I don't get how the two parties can run primaries at public expense but exclude anyone else. I keep rereading the Constitution and Bill Of Rights and I can't find anywhere where it says that you have to be a Democrat or Republican.

[Louis]

Quit it.

Brian, lighten up man. It looks to me as if someone decided to let us blow off some political steam today. I don't have any problems with that, and I think it shows some refreshing pragmatism. I'm sure the clamps will be back on soon enough.

Louis

[Kevan]

hey it's a start. We'll have a mix of conservatives (Fe), moderates (Ti) and them liberals (CF). We'll have the socio-economic mix of well-heeled (road), blue-collar (mtb) and the disenfranchised (bmx). We'll be of every known color with fabric to reflect the hoy-paloy as well as the down to earth.

If that isn't a mix of shared passion, I don't know what else is.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . with threads of this type as long as they are polite exchanges that really dicuss issues, rather than simply flame each other. So far I am seeing that in the political threads that have been running today, and I think it's a tribute to the demographics of this forum that members CAN discuss something so potentially divisive in such a civilized way. I just don't think you would see that on many other cycling forums.

But if things head down that flaming hill I'd be the first to agree that the threads should be shut down.

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I would tend to agree with John Adams and 67-59. I have always tried hard to separate my voting sentiments between national and local level races. But even trying to keep that at the top of my mind, it was difficult yesterday to separate the two as I stood in the voting booth and looked at all the names and party affiliations on the ballot. There are national issues that I and many other people are incredibly passionate and/or angry about, whether it's the war in Iraq, abortion, gay rights, or any of a dozen others--and the voting booth offers just about the only outlet people have for that anger. It's the only place where they may really feel like they have some semblance of control in the face of a nation and world where gas prices, endlessly rising taxes, and media headlines keep emphasizing all the things the individual really doesn't have any control over.

Now I'm trying to think of the last time this country really DID have more than two major parties . . .the late 1800's? :confused:

BBD

[Serpico]

agreed (but john adams shouldn't have messed with hamilton :crap: )

political parties are a bad thing imo

[Ahneida Ride]

I'll enjoy a party that offers candidates that actually do what that say.

I see elections as an opportunity to change the drunk on the conveyor belt.
I may alter the direction in which the drunk stumbles, but not the direction of the conveyor belt.

[IXXI]

Aye for Mt. Adams (Washington).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Adams_%28Washington%29

[slowgoing]

Quit it.

ditto.

[malcolm]

It amazes me how the other party's candidates/incumbents/etc. are always criminals, crooks or idiots. It reminds me of driving, everyone going faster is a lunatic and everyone going slower is an idiot. I see plenty of moronic activity from both sides. Actually it is probably the only thing non partisan. I generally stay out of political debate. I don't see where it does much good, particularly on a bicycling forum. If you really have all that vitriol and venom become an activist and do something to initiate change rather than typing on a computer and basically preaching to the choir.

[saab2000]

Funny though how political affiliation becomes much less important the smaller the race becomes, i.e. state and below.

I strongly supported one party on Tuesday, but at a state, county and local level I only support the issues, not the party. Some states have exceptionally good politicians in office from the 'wrong' party.

If it makes anyone feel better, politics in other countries is equally divisive, if not more so. Even in sweet little Switzerland it gets mean and nasty and ugly and personal.

And I point out with pride that 6 years ago we went through a bizarre national election where the results were challenged and many people thought that the loser won, etc. Yet in no instance was the National Guard called out. Not a single shot was fired. The losing candidate did not call on his followers to start a revolution. This is a divided nation, but the fact is that the majority of the people are pretty level headed and that is one of our greatest strengths.

[rnhood]

The party system can be a turn-off, that's for sure. I became very disenfranchised with the parties in previous elections when one went to extremes in trying to quite the voice of an independent. We need more voices in politics, more choices, not less. That's one of the hallmarks of democracy. Whether I support or don't support the platform of an independent, it is an abomination to our political system to see any one party try to manipulate or take the independent out out of the picture.

I also don't understand the reasoning behind our 17th amendment. It's enough to have our Congressmen pandering to the people. The Senators should be appointed by the states to represent the states, exactly like our forebrothers including John Adams envisioned. Having them elected by the people just waters down their original obligation as set forth by the Constitution.

[stevep]

you go into battle with the political system that you have, not the system that you wish you had or might have sometime in the future...
bye bye don. nice work.

call poppy bush before you go..." why didnt we go into baghad the first time, anyway? and how do i get out now with my a** intact?"

[saab2000]

FWIW, if the same 'leaders' were in another country and pulled the exact same stuff, this country would be calling for "regime change" and trials in the Hague, etc.

Glad this country is finally waking up to reality.

Not endorsing one party or another by saying that, but the current guys remind me of the PR guy from Iraq who kept saying that everything was fine when the US troops were rolling into Baghdad. Even the president can no longer ignore reality and that is what democracy is all about I guess.

[Ahneida Ride]

With all due respect, the US is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy.

[67-59]

you go into battle with the political system that you have, not the system that you wish you had or might have sometime in the future...


That is quite possibly the most frightening statement I've heard in a long time. Yikes! If everybody agreed with that, we'd all be paying tax on tea to the folks in London....

[saab2000]

With all due respect, the US is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy.

I use the word democracy in a broad sense. Switzerland is a more pure direct democracy, but my point is that people here vote for their politicians as opposed to having their politicians chosen by the ruling elite, as we see in some parts of the world.

[Serotta_James]

Come To The Serotta Demo Event At Bicycle Ranch In Scottsdale, Az On Saturday!!!

[gasman]

Come To The Serotta Demo Event At Bicycle Ranch In Scottsdale, Az On Saturday!!!




That is something we can all agree on !!!!!



Well, except for the fact I live 1,000 miles north-dang. :crap:

[Serotta_James]

Oh come on! I've got two MeiVicis, two Ottrotts, a couple HSG road bikes and more.
By the way, we (the bikes and I) will also be attending the expo at El Tour de Tucson next week.

All you SoCal people better stay tuned for special demo events early next year.