Weird Fit Question

[cachagua]

I've got a few road bikes. I like to set 'em all up so the contact points are in the same relations to each other -- seat height, setback behind BB, seat nose forward to bar, and seat downward to bar... the basic stuff.

Last person I asked about fit looked at me on one bike, and said I was reaching too far forward, and recommended a shorter stem. I took that under advisement but didn't do anything about it right away. (Riding that bike feels too good -- I don't want to change it!)

But I have another bike which, because it has a 1" steerer, I don't have an ideal stem for (1" stems aren't so plentiful). Its current position is identical to the one I mentioned above, except that the bar is a little higher, and a little closer to the seat (not much -- about a centimeter and a half or so in each direction).

So here's the question: how come my neck hurts after every ride on that bike? It's like I've been straining to hold my head up. When I ride the first one (or any other bike of mine), I don't have any post-ride discomfort at all, but the second one makes me feel like I've been bending over too far -- and yet, in fact, I'm actually bending over less.

Any ideas?

[cmg]

there are spacers available so you can fit 1 1/8 stems. you might be cramped with the higher closer position. 1 1/2 cms in both directions is a lot as you get older. someone in their 20s could run with it, someone in their 50s might not.

[David Tollefson]

Its current position is identical to the one I mentioned above, except that the bar is a little higher, and a little closer to the seat (not much -- about a centimeter and a half or so in each direction).

15mm is a huge amount when talking about reach or height differences, especially when it's both at the same time.

[cachagua]

I deliberately overestimated, it might be eleven or twelve or thirteen millimeters. But, let it be fifteen, for the sake of the argument -- what confuses me is it's in the wrong direction. If anything, shouldn't this make me more relaxed and comfortable and, you know, all endurance-y? And if I went longer and lower, well, I'd *expect* that to hurt. (Otherwise I would!)

For example, I would have considered setting up a loaded-touring bike more-or-less this way: just about like my roadracer except a little more upright, and bars a little closer. (If, that is, I were EVER going to do any loaded touring again in my life.)

But is that an incorrect assumption? Maybe I'm misjudging the biomechanics here? Is there anything else should I look at or measure that might be contributing to the effect?

[fogrider]

I have 5 road bikes and a gravel bike, the dimensions are close to each other, but they are not the same. Most of my rides are short, 1 to 2 hour training rides when I go hard. I also move around on the bike but like the tops and the hoods. When I''m climbing, I'm on the hoods and forward on the saddle. On a descent, I'm back on the saddle and hoods to stretch out to get aero. sometimes on a long climb, I feel like I need to hold a position and keep the spin up...then I shift and stand to use different muscles and try to hang on some speed. by moving around and changing my position, I don't over work any one muscle.

[Lionel]

I deliberately overestimated, it might be eleven or twelve or thirteen millimeters. But, let it be fifteen, for the sake of the argument -- what confuses me is it's in the wrong direction. If anything, shouldn't this make me more relaxed and comfortable and, you know, all endurance-y? And if I went longer and lower, well, I'd *expect* that to hurt. (Otherwise I would!)

For example, I would have considered setting up a loaded-touring bike more-or-less this way: just about like my roadracer except a little more upright, and bars a little closer. (If, that is, I were EVER going to do any loaded touring again in my life.)

But is that an incorrect assumption? Maybe I'm misjudging the biomechanics here? Is there anything else should I look at or measure that might be contributing to the effect?

higher and shorter does not mean more comfortable. Your hands have to end up in the right place.

[fa63]

higher and shorter does not mean more comfortable. Your hands have to end up in the right place.

This. Also, I have found that the "right place" for my hands is dependent on many factors, including my functional flexibility at a given time, which in turn is a function of how much I have been riding. For example, when I am riding a lot, my preferred bar position ends up being lower (and sometimes I even throw on a slightly longer stem). I adjust my position constantly, saddle height too, because to me bike fit is not static.

Also, sitting too upright can put pressure in the wrong places as well, especially when riding longer distances.

[Black Dog]

Your stem on that bike may be higher and shorter, but are the bars deeper with more reach? This could effectively make the ride longer and lower.

[soulspinner]

higher and shorter does not mean more comfortable. Your hands have to end up in the right place.

So true...…..

[oldpotatoe]

I've got a few road bikes. I like to set 'em all up so the contact points are in the same relations to each other -- seat height, setback behind BB, seat nose forward to bar, and seat downward to bar... the basic stuff.

Last person I asked about fit looked at me on one bike, and said I was reaching too far forward, and recommended a shorter stem. I took that under advisement but didn't do anything about it right away. (Riding that bike feels too good -- I don't want to change it!)

But I have another bike which, because it has a 1" steerer, I don't have an ideal stem for (1" stems aren't so plentiful). Its current position is identical to the one I mentioned above, except that the bar is a little higher, and a little closer to the seat (not much -- about a centimeter and a half or so in each direction).

So here's the question: how come my neck hurts after every ride on that bike? It's like I've been straining to hold my head up. When I ride the first one (or any other bike of mine), I don't have any post-ride discomfort at all, but the second one makes me feel like I've been bending over too far -- and yet, in fact, I'm actually bending over less.

Any ideas?

The gent that bought Vecchio's had similar discomfort..what he was doing was scrunching up his shoulders because he wasn't reaching far enough, distance turned out to be too small..longer and a bit lower stem, discomfort gone...

And this
Last person I asked about fit looked at me on one bike, and said I was reaching too far forward, and recommended a shorter stem. I took that under advisement but didn't do anything about it right away. (Riding that bike feels too good -- I don't want to change it!)

Beware any fit person that says 'looks' trump 'feel'..distances, heights, angles, etc are STARTING points, not end points..what feels good is the key and the goal. To ride w/o discomfort and injury.

[simonov]

The gent that bought Vecchio's had similar discomfort..what he was doing was scrunching up his shoulders because he wasn't reaching far enough, distance turned out to be too small..longer and a bit lower stem, discomfort gone...

And this


Beware any fit person that says 'looks' trump 'feel'..distances, heights, angles, etc are STARTING points, not end points..what feels good is the key and the goal. To ride w/o discomfort and injury.

Yep. It's a myth that neck or back pain comes from too long or too low of a position. It comes from an incorrect position (among other things). The answer isn't always to shorten or raise.

[benb]

Yep, I've been through this too. When my reach is shortened too much my back seems to curve as if I am bending down to touch toes without bending at the hips properly. Then I have to extend my neck and "raise" my arms more.

With the longer position my back stays more neutral.

Too low seems to make my back bow the same way as too short. The relationships seem complicated.

[cachagua]

Well this is turning out to be very productive, thanks y'all. I'm tellin' myself I was right all along about the monster stem (on Bike 1, that is), and if I look like a monkey when I ride, so what? Gotta remember to trust the feel, and not believe people just for the sake of doing so (not that that has exactly been a tragic flaw for me, in fact quite the opposite).

I've actually got a spacer to use a 1-1/8" stem, I should try a few different sizes & shapes and zero in on a more comfortable position. The current one has a wraparound-style clamp, so I'm in for handlebar tape at least, and in the end I'll probably wind up ordering a custom stem... but if that's the alternative to selling this frame, it's totally worth it.

So now, from weird to weirder: yesterday I rode the bike with a different pair of wheels. Felt fine afterward.

But this is alright, this levels the playing field... expert authorities are unreliable for fit advice, and I'm unreliable too. The only saving grace is that, once again, I got to have a conversation about some problem here, and once again, the problem's evaporated.