Direct mount brake on steel frame?

[Robbos]

As I do when life gets kinda challenging, I'm loosing myself in my latest
bicycle build fantasy (which may well come to fruition). A nice custom steel frame and carbon fork from a local builder, and I have most parts planned out. I'm not interested in disk brakes, I am very impressed with my current 5800 calipers (with Swissstop pads to boot), and I was wondering if anyone knows whether and how a builder can put direct mount brakes on a steel frame. Is it using a sort of canti stud? I imagine so as the recess mount might be harder to integrate. Is anyone aware of a steel builder who has done so?
My biggest concern for now is the lack of aftermarket carbon forks build to accept direct mount. I think Enve does one but that is far outside of my price range.
At the end of the day, my center mount brakes will do the job. It just seemed that if I have a new frame built, one I intend to keep for a long time, might as well profit from even better brakes.

[Ken Robb]

What is the supposed advantage of direct mount brakes? It looks like mounting studs in the fork blades would require extra material and weight in the blades.

[shortwaveradio]

The only real advantage that I've heard touted is the "aero" advantage, as the brake arms are tucked behind or are more in line with elements of the frame. There's also their use in cases of bridgeless seatstays on rim brake bikes (where the rear brake is chainstay mounted) but with the popularity of disc brakes, that's becoming even more rare.

Obviously, with a steel bike you aren't doing the kind of tube shaping to maximize performance in a wind tunnel, so I wouldn't think direct mounts would be something found on most builder's spec sheets.

[Mark McM]

What is the supposed advantage of direct mount brakes? It looks like mounting studs in the fork blades would require extra material and weight in the blades.

Multiple advantages: Shorter brake arms (pivot to pad) make the brakes stiffer (stiffness improves modulation); The greater distance between pivots increases leverage of the brakes (greater clamping force for a given lever force); the entire system weight ends up being slightly lighter (yes, there's a little more weight added to the fork and frame, but weight can be removed from the caliper arms, and you completely remove the dual pivot caliper offset arm).

[velotrack]

i'd probably try to contact rob english. seems like if anyone could/would do it, it would be him.

[Lionel]

another advantage is additional tire clearance

[one60]

does anyone make a carbon fork for DM brakes? I would guess the benefits of DM brakes would be most noticeable on the front brake?

[Robbos]

Multiple advantages: Shorter brake arms (pivot to pad) make the brakes stiffer (stiffness improves modulation); The greater distance between pivots increases leverage of the brakes (greater clamping force for a given lever force); the entire system weight ends up being slightly lighter (yes, there's a little more weight added to the fork and frame, but weight can be removed from the caliper arms, and you completely remove the dual pivot caliper offset arm).

That's exactly it. Well said. Just not sure whether or how it could be done on a steel frame.

[dustyrider]

Trek’s slr line uses direct mount brakes. Maybe a domane/emonda fork is more cost effective then an enve...I know lots of pro bikes last year had direct mount brakes so there are bound to be some other carbon forks out there too. As far as a specific steel builder goes, I don’t know of any off the top of my head. I definitely can’t think of a steel fork with direct mount brakes....

[zap]

Trek’s slr line uses direct mount brakes. Maybe a domane/emonda fork is more cost effective then an enve...I know lots of pro bikes last year had direct mount brakes so there are bound to be some other carbon forks out there too. As far as a specific steel builder goes, I don’t know of any off the top of my head. I definitely can’t think of a steel fork with direct mount brakes....

'18 & '19 Trek SL line too.

[prototoast]

I definitely can’t think of a steel fork with direct mount brakes....

From NAHBS 2016, Krattli had a steel fork with direct mount brakes: https://bikerumor.com/2016/03/08/nahbs-2016-new-builder-bellon-handmade-bike-frames-brings-classic-back/

[jemdet]

Chris Bishop did direct mount front and rear recently. Can't for the life of me figure out how to post instagram photos here

[ColonelJLloyd]

i'd probably try to contact rob english. seems like if anyone could/would do it, it would be him.

That was my thought as well. Seems right up his alley.

[cachagua]

Make the brakes stiffer (stiffness improves modulation)...


I think the opposite is true: a little flex improves modulation, and excessive stiffness reduces it.

But this depends on what you call "improved modulation". To me, good modulation is when I can feel that pulling the lever farther gives a gradual, regular, and predictable increase in braking force. Maximizing stiffness tends to minimize lever travel for a given increase in brake force, and that, to me, makes it harder to feel what I'm doing. A little bit of cable stretch (or housing compression), a little bit of elasticity in the arms, a little smishiness in the pads, all add up to a brake I can control better than one that feels like squeezing a solid bar of metal.

In other words the more closely a brake lever approaches the behavior of a lightswitch -- it's either on, or it's off -- the worse "modulation" I'd call that. And a reasonable amount of flex in the system does just the opposite.

Or, I might be using that term differently from what others mean?

How any of that relates to direct-mount brakes, though... that's an imponderable.

[palincss]

I think the opposite is true: a little flex improves modulation, and excessive stiffness reduces it.

But this depends on what you call "improved modulation". To me, good modulation is when I can feel that pulling the lever farther gives a gradual, regular, and predictable increase in braking force. Maximizing stiffness tends to minimize lever travel for a given increase in brake force, and that, to me, makes it harder to feel what I'm doing. A little bit of cable stretch (or housing compression), a little bit of elasticity in the arms, a little smishiness in the pads, all add up to a brake I can control better than one that feels like squeezing a solid bar of metal.

In other words the more closely a brake lever approaches the behavior of a lightswitch -- it's either on, or it's off -- the worse "modulation" I'd call that. And a reasonable amount of flex in the system does just the opposite.

Or, I might be using that term differently from what others mean?

How any of that relates to direct-mount brakes, though... that's an imponderable.

Flex is basically "lost motion" - movement at the lever but no movement at the brake, because it's lost flexing the rest of the system. That's not what you want. Instead, what you want is more mechanical advantage: more lever movement to produce the same amount of movement at the brake.

[kytyree]

I saw a Colnago DM fork on Jenson's site, it was discounted but still $500

Without spending at least that much and made of carbon I'd think either finding something on ebay/here or contacting some of the companies in places like Taiwan.

[weiwentg]

Chris Bishop did direct mount front and rear recently. Can't for the life of me figure out how to post instagram photos here

https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/60/20/wb5iZySM_t.jpg (http://imgbox.com/wb5iZySM) https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/8a/15/ALWXBim7_t.jpg (http://imgbox.com/ALWXBim7)
https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/0a/51/uzZ38cmk_t.jpg (http://imgbox.com/uzZ38cmk)

The thumbnails should link to full-size photos. For reference, Chris Bishop's post (https://www.instagram.com/p/BjfIjYdHZDv/?hl=en&taken-by=bishopbikes) said

Mocked up post mount @eecycleworks brakes @challengetires Strada Bianca’s measuring 32mm on @hedwheels black Ardennes laced up by Tommy @cutlassvelo

[jemdet]

https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/60/20/wb5iZySM_t.jpg (http://imgbox.com/wb5iZySM) https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/8a/15/ALWXBim7_t.jpg (http://imgbox.com/ALWXBim7)
https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/0a/51/uzZ38cmk_t.jpg (http://imgbox.com/uzZ38cmk)

The thumbnails should link to full-size photos. For reference, Chris Bishop's post (https://www.instagram.com/p/BjfIjYdHZDv/?hl=en&taken-by=bishopbikes) said

Thank you! His work is beautiful.

[Robbos]

https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/60/20/wb5iZySM_t.jpg (http://imgbox.com/wb5iZySM) https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/8a/15/ALWXBim7_t.jpg (http://imgbox.com/ALWXBim7)
https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/0a/51/uzZ38cmk_t.jpg (http://imgbox.com/uzZ38cmk)

The thumbnails should link to full-size photos. For reference, Chris Bishop's post (https://www.instagram.com/p/BjfIjYdHZDv/?hl=en&taken-by=bishopbikes) said

Perfect. That's exactly what I was looking for! Thanks.