New Bicycle Land Speed Record 184mph

[pbarry]

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a23281242/denise-mueller-korenek-breaks-bicycle-speed-record/

[Lewis Moon]

I may be mistaken but I believe that's the overall land speed record, not just women's.

[fiamme red]

I may be mistaken but I believe that's the overall land speed record, not just women's.It is. She broke Fred Rompelberg's record, set in 1995. She previously held the women's record at 147.74 mph.

183.93 mph is insane. She was going nearly as fast as an Isle of Man time trialist. :eek:

[dddd]

I hope they took some good video that makes this easier to imagine.

[tlarwa]

That is insane. I can't imagine being dragged behind a dragster at 100mph while sitting on a bicycle ... the margin of error must be essentially zero!

[bicycletricycle]

awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

[icepick_trotsky]

The double gear ratio boggles the mind. 62:12 twice.

[fiamme red]

I hope they took some good video that makes this easier to imagine.You can watch Neil Campbell setting the UK record here on a converted tandem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckum7dmwhqw.

This is a record that depends heavily on technology: of the car, the fairing, and the bicycle. Also on location (Bonneville Salt Flats is the ideal place).

[NewDFWrider]

Here's the Wall Street Journal article, which features a video of the ride.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/she-just-rode-184-mph-on-a-bicycle-really-1537200794?mod=hp_lead_pos11

I wonder if KHS will see a pop in bike sales. (John Howard was her coach, which is also remarkable to me as I now feel super old).

[dddd]

Wow, she actually had that big gear spinning!

The bike apparatus must have been well designed for stability, the geometry and tires likely straight out of the motorcycle world.

[pbarry]

I may be mistaken but I believe that's the overall land speed record, not just women's.

Fixed it. :)

[zmudshark]

Proves that small diameter, fat tires are way faster.

[Louis]

I understand the "behind a fairing" thing, but IMO it would make a lot more sense if the rider had to come up to speed using their own power. Using the motor-powered vehicle for that really does make it a bit meaningless.

[onsight512]

Proves that small diameter, fat tires are way faster.

lol:hello:

[fiamme red]

I understand the "behind a fairing" thing, but IMO it would make a lot more sense if the rider had to come up to speed using their own power. Using the motor-powered vehicle for that really does make it a bit meaningless.From You Need to Slide Instead of Tumble: An Interview with Denise Mueller-Korenek (https://www.primalwear.com/blogs/news/you-need-to-slide-instead-of-tumble-an-interview-with-denise-mueller-korenek):

I couldn't understand how you can get a bike to go as fast as you did or to get it up to 167 mph. It looks so weird. They had to do all this sort of different gearing and manipulation. You had to be towed up to 90-100 mph just because the gearing was so different that you couldn't even pedal until you got that fast. Is that right?

Yep. And it's only one gear, so it's just like a velodrome bike or fixie or whatever you want to call it. I liken it to having a car and literally the only gear that works is Overdrive. You're not pulling out of a shop into their parking lot in Overdrive. It ain't gonna move because the engine can't turn overdrive over until you get to a speed where it all of a sudden can turn the gears and the engine.

It’s the same thing with my legs. I can't turn that gear to 400 & 85 inch gear, so each revolution of the pedals goes 125 feet. There's no way I'm going to turn that with one pedal crank at 125 feet. So, I have to get pulled up to a minimum of 90 mph and that's where my RPMs is about 67. And that's just being able to barely push that. Then I'm able to ride that all that way on up to 150 mph where my RPMs are 107.

That's a big swap to only have one gear between 90 to 150 mph but that's how it has to work. And in fact, to go faster - which is the plan - we're probably going to have to have the release speed a little bit higher, unless we develop some sort of multi-gear system, which is sort of worrisome to introduce because no matter what we do it will be experimental and at that speed, you don't want to.

[Louis]

^^^^^^ Yup - only one gear.

As she suggests, IMO they really need to figure out how to do it with several gears. That way you don't have to be physically "towed," and only use the car for aero reasons.

[fiamme red]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/communities/north-county/sd-no-fastest-woman-20180917-story.html

[CSKeller]

So amazing!!! Incredible feat!! I was fortunate to see Denise and John Howard give a presentation on their path to the speed record at last year's Ride the Rockies. So great their dreams became reality!!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[fiamme red]

Allan Abbott 1973 Bonneville Salt Flats Bicycle Speed Record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUmabVbz0ys. Single huge chainring!

[pbarry]

Allan Abbott 1973 Bonneville Salt Flats Bicycle Speed Record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUmabVbz0ys. Single huge chainring!

Great stuff! Inspired me as a youngster to go out and ride hard. Drafting behind Coors trucks leaving the brewery in Golden was a thrill. Thought about Abbott, (and Dave Stoller), while keeping my eyes glued on the tractor trailer's brake lights..

[paredown]

Great stuff! Inspired me as a youngster to go out and ride hard. Drafting behind Coors trucks leaving the brewery in Golden was a thrill. Thought about Abbott, (and Dave Stoller), while keeping my eyes glued on the tractor trailer's brake lights..
Ahhhh--truck training! Our coach said 'pick a truck with a flat back!'.

[Mark McM]

From You Need to Slide Instead of Tumble: An Interview with Denise Mueller-Korenek (https://www.primalwear.com/blogs/news/you-need-to-slide-instead-of-tumble-an-interview-with-denise-mueller-korenek):

I think this description misses a variety of things regarding the physics of speed records. Firstly, riding a highly geared bike is not similar to trying to start a car in overdrive, because the characteristics of the motor are vastly different. It takes a lot of torque to turn a big gear, and an internal combustion engine does not develop full torque at zero speed - it generally requires a few thousand rpm. Conversely, the human "engine" can develop full torque at zero speed. If the human doesn't have the torque to turn the pedals from zero speed, then they can't turn the pedals at a higher speed, either. Also not mentioned is where the majority of the drive power comes from for bicycle speed record attempts (hint: It doesn't come from the rider). The wind fairing on the pace car does more than just reduce or eliminate wind drag on the rider - it generates an eddy current in the air that acts to push the rider forward. One reason to tow the rider up to speed is that the wind fairing needs some speed before it starts generating an eddy current strong enough to propel the rider.

[fiamme red]

I think this description misses a variety of things regarding the physics of speed records. Firstly, riding a highly geared bike is not similar to trying to start a car in overdrive, because the characteristics of the motor are vastly different. It takes a lot of torque to turn a big gear, and an internal combustion engine does not develop full torque at zero speed - it generally requires a few thousand rpm. Conversely, the human "engine" can develop full torque at zero speed. If the human doesn't have the torque to turn the pedals from zero speed, then they can't turn the pedals at a higher speed, either. Also not mentioned is where the majority of the drive power comes from for bicycle speed record attempts (hint: It doesn't come from the rider). The wind fairing on the pace car does more than just reduce or eliminate wind drag on the rider - it generates an eddy current in the air that acts to push the rider forward. One reason to tow the rider up to speed is that the wind fairing needs some speed before it starts generating an eddy current strong enough to propel the rider.Jobst in the early days of bicycle newsgroups (when it was just rec.bicycles) used to argue that land speed records were all about the skill of staying upright and at a constant distance from the fairing, not at all about the generation of power.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles/kObWiVxZBuE/myLjisXsDxwJ

Anyone who has ridden in a convertible car with the top down will recall that your hair, if any, gets blown forward over your face. It should be evident, 1) that with a suitable wind screen, air can be turned around to blow in the direction of travel, 2) that records are set behind windscreens that are designed to turn air around are used to push the rider, 3) that these record breakers often must brake to avoid being pushed into the pacing vehicle, 4) that the power required to spin bicycle wheels in still air at these record speeds generally exceeds human ability by a large degree (see John Howard's land speed record).

I am not impressed mainly because this record misrepresents bicycling effort and is more a test of not falling off the bike than athletic performance. I find it similarly significant to swallowing live
goldfish for the record.

[Mark McM]

Jobst in the early days of bicycle newsgroups (when it was just rec.bicycles) used to argue that land speed records were all about the skill of staying upright and at a constant distance from the fairing, not at all about the generation of power.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles/kObWiVxZBuE/myLjisXsDxwJ

And there's nothing wrong with that. Downhill ski races are powered by gravity, but nobody doubts the athleticism (strength, timing, balance, etc.) of the competitors.

[redir]

Gosh, I can't imagine hitting the pavement at that speed! :d

At least she was wearing a helmet :D

[fiamme red]

Here's an article by Clifford Graves about José Meiffret's "Date With Death": https://cycling.ahands.org/bicycling/datewithdeath.html.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAW946UQ1fU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8MAqmklHwg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKXeipLGXZc

Meiffret got up to speed on his own with a huge effort, and only then moved behind the fairing.

I love the enormous TA chainring. Still, his gearing was much lower than allowed by a double-reduction system, and his legs were spinning very fast.

By the way, you can see close-ups of John Howard's record-setting bike here: http://www.copakeauction.com/land-speed-record-bicycle-to-sell-april-2017/.

[ptourkin]

Jobst in the early days of bicycle newsgroups (when it was just rec.bicycles) used to argue that land speed records were all about the skill of staying upright and at a constant distance from the fairing, not at all about the generation of power.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles/kObWiVxZBuE/myLjisXsDxwJ

Not arguing with Jobst on that but having ridden on the track with Denise and John and seen her winning pro 1-2 crits despite being twice as old as some of the field, I can attest that she generates a **** load of power, too.

[Mark McM]

Here's an article by Clifford Graves about José Meiffret's "Date With Death": https://cycling.ahands.org/bicycling/datewithdeath.html.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAW946UQ1fU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8MAqmklHwg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKXeipLGXZc

Meiffret got up to speed on his own with a huge effort, and only then moved behind the fairing.

The article linked says that he was pushed by a motorcycle to 50 mph, and then transitioned over to the pace car with the fairing.

The linked videos don't show a motorcycle, but it does show the rider starting out on his own, and then moving over to the pace car. It appears that he moves behind the pace car at much less than 50mph. Also, it shows that just after moving behind the pace car, the rider reaches forward and grabs onto the car with his hand, and then gets pulled along by the pace car.

[fiamme red]

The article linked says that he was pushed by a motorcycle to 50 mph, and then transitioned over to the pace car with the fairing.

The linked videos don't show a motorcycle, but it does show the rider starting out on his own, and then moving over to the pace car. It appears that he moves behind the pace car at much less than 50mph. Also, it shows that just after moving behind the pace car, the rider reaches forward and grabs onto the car with his hand, and then gets pulled along by the pace car.Is he riding a fixed-gear? It looks as if he stops pedaling briefly at least twice. Here's one instance:

https://youtu.be/gAW946UQ1fU?t=4m30s (starting at 4:34)

Never mind, it looks clearly not to be a fixed-gear. I'd think that for very high RPM, a fixed-gear would be easier than a single-speed with freewheel.

[likebikes]

184 mph and all she had was a single vbrake to slow her down at the end? :eek::confused:

[fiamme red]

Jobst went so far as to say that pedaling isn't even necessary in land speed records:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles/DmSH6-T9oEA/ipfumdeid_4J

As I stated, John Howard was towed to a substantial speed (100+ mph if I recall correctly) before "cutting loose". At speed his 20 inch wheels were turning about 2500 rpm and with a cadence of 200 that would require a gear ratio of 12.5:1 with a double reduction chain (as he had). I don't recall the ratio but it was in this magnitude. At this speed and a foot to road ratio of 1:19, a 10 pound pressure that a rider might exert on the pedals at this speed becomes less than one pound forward propulsion. The 10 pound estimate is most likely high since pedal force goes to zero at the limit of spin as is apparent from riding rollers in a small gear at such a cadence.

That controlling a bicycle in turbulent air behind a wind screen is difficult and dangerous is not disputed. My point is that the rider in these events does not contribute to propulsion and that the pedals are merely a device to make the concept of someone "riding a bicycle" at such speeds palpable.

[Mark McM]

Jobst went so far as to say that pedaling isn't even necessary in land speed records:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles/DmSH6-T9oEA/ipfumdeid_4J

I think Brandt might have been extrapolating too far, based on John Howard's* set up. During Howard's attempt, the car's throttle was controlled via radio control by Howard himself. Theoretically, if the car's speed could be controlled with great precision, then no rider pedaling input would be required. But I doubt that the throttle could be controlled with enough precision, requiring Howard to use the pedals to control the bike's speed and position behind the pace car. And at those speeds and very high gears, it would take a lot of leg strength and power to make even small speed adjustments. So I believe that while the majority of the propulsion was from the car's eddy current, it still took a lot of effort from the rider to maintain their position in the draft.



*It should also be noted that Brandt (and others) also had a beef with John Howard for being partially responsible for the addition of "lawyer's lips" on fork dropouts. In a lawsuit brought by a rider whose front wheel which had detached due to a loose quick release skewer, John Howard was paid to act as an expert witness for the plaintiff, and he testified that even when QR skewers are properly adjusted and tightened, they can loosen up while riding, allowing the wheel to come out. This event also prompted SOPWAMTOS (http://www.sopwamtos.com) to award Howard a "Golden Toidy" under the "Liar for Hire" category.

[redir]

It's amazing how abrasive Brandt can still be even though he's been gone 3 years now, may he rest in peace.

[TimD]

Team Vesco's Turbinator II set a new, unofficial 'wheel driven' LSR of 482.6 MPH last weekend at Bonneville.

The 'official' record set was in the SCTA/BNI T-3 class.

The salt is said to be in great shape this year, with multiple cars running over 400 MPH during SpeedWeek in mid-August.

[Mark McM]

Team Vesco's Turbinator II set a new, unofficial 'wheel driven' LSR of 482.6 MPH last weekend at Bonneville.

Ah, a real automobile, and not one of the low flying airplanes that hold most of the "land" speed records.

[TimD]

Ah, a real automobile, and not one of the low flying airplanes that hold most of the "land" speed records.

Well, yes, but... as implied by the name and the class (T-3), the vehicle is powered by a turbine.

The fastest piston-powered record holder is (I think) Danny Thompson's Challenger 2, which was built by his father Mickey and his buddies in 1968. Danny set the AA/FS record of 448 and change at this year's SpeedWeek.

[oldpotatoe]

Good recap, interview and video here..pretty dern amazing..
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/09/taking-a-speed-record-denise-korenek-on-what-its-like-to-ride-at-183-9-mph

[fiamme red]

Here's a video of her record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CFTqHbgsKs. Amazing!

It appears from the video that she was towed up to about 160 mph, then she undid the connection.