Ben & Staff

[CSIRider]

If you were asked - as I am asking - to express your thoughts about the value of this forum to Ben and his staff, what would you say?

[1centaur]

I bet there is no other bicycle maker who so deeply understands the psychology of its customers. Sometimes that psychology may be a little...odd, but overall the benefit of knowing why the target demographic does and does not buy Serotta is invaluable.

I hang here because there's a great blend of thought, civility and wisdom among Serottans that's utterly unavailable on other cycling forums. I don't own a Serotta mostly because I love carbon fiber, so I have been circumspect with bike-specific comments, but I was quick to praise the acumen of the MQC R&D purchase, and I bet my thought process is exactly what the company was after when it made the move. If someday down the road I can compare Serotta CF with the other major US makers' products in a favorable way on this forum, it won't hurt sales. If this forum was just for flag wavers that possibility would not exist.

Bottom line - smart and thoughtful comes in lots of forms, and while the company may not have known what they'd get when they let freedom reign (mostly) around here, I bet they do now. Lots of potential buyers are referred to this forum for riding impressions and enthusiasm. To Serotta's credit, they know a good thing when they have it.

[Kevin]

I love this forum. I love the members. I love Serotta. I love the four Serottas I own as a result of participating on this forum. Thank You Ben.

Kevin

[csm]

I discovered this forum when I was thinking of buying a serotta. I work part time at a serotta dealer and tell the folks looking at nice bikes to check it out. a few have told me they've been here and appreciate it. I think it might push someone on the fence about buying a serotta vs say, a trek pilot or similar.

[ergott]

A wonderful blend of knowledge and wit. I learn just as much as I'm entertained.

[saab2000]

It is a marketing tool and probably a learning tool for Serotta. But the regulars here are only a small portion of all Serotta owners.

But I KNOW for a fact that I would not own a Serotta and I would not have met some really cool fellow Serotta owners if not for this forum.

I own and am happy with my Serotta CIII and without the knowledge and enthusiasm of the members of this forum I would not have one. So for one at least it worked, even though mine was a used Serotta.

[davids]

Ditto to all. But a point that hasn't been mentioned - By hosting a forum where knowledgable cyclist can talk about any brand of bike or frame, including all of Serotta's fiercest competitors, Serotta demonstrates complete confidence in their products. That is very, very impressive, atmo.

But I bought one because Serotta's confidence has been earned - It was the best bike I rode.

[Peter P.]

It sells product, and I don't mean that in a snotty, negative way.

It gives a view of the cross section of Serotta owners/potential Serotta owners, and by that is a reflection of Serotta bicycles.

It gives the company a great insight into how their product is viewed by the public, and how they can steer their offerings to be appealing to them.

If they're smart (and they are), Serotta moderators will chime in from time to time, adding value to the company name along with the impression that they are truly involved with their product.

I think you can say that this forum is more calm and sophisticated than other forums out there. That would be a good reflection on Serotta, to me.

I know if I were buying a Serotta I would look for a forum like this to get honest, in-depth opinions, and I would walk away satisfied.

It's great that Serotta provides this forum.

Disclaimer: I am NOT a Serotta owner.

[Chief]

I hang out here daily and contribute occassionally; primarily because I have two Serottas. I have learned a great deal from the knowledgeable people here. Serotta provides a great service fby making this site available and I for one certainly appreciate it.

[Tom]

It better bring them some value for the time their people have to spend keeping us dummies happy.

I think it does. I never read it as a source for info before I bought any of my bikes other than to check on what people thought of Serotta as a vendor and when I saw how liberal they were with what they let people get away with around here I figured they were OK to deal with.

I have to go look up the quote, but I believe it was some judge from England that said it was how a country adheres to that what can't be enforced reveals the true strength of that country, or something along those lines. True of Serotta, given the breadth of the discourse that goes on around here.

Too bad heads of state don't read bike forums, eh?

[Climb01742]

i think it's safe to say that no other brand of bike interacts with it's audience as often, or as deeply or personally, as serotta does thanks to this forum. in marketing speak, this forum forges a bond between brand and consumer that other brands can only dream of.

[William]

i think it's safe to say that no other brand of bike interacts with it's audience as often, or as deeply or personally, as serotta does thanks to this forum. in marketing speak, this forum forges a bond between brand and consumer that other brands can only dream of.

Very true. It also forges bonds between fellow Serotta owners and non owners alike. A bond that transcends product brands and has helped develop lasting friendships. It really is a great group of people here who feely share knowledge, help (in many ways), and wonderful camaraderie in the many get togethers large and small that have spun off this forum.

It also allows them to keep a finger on the pulse of their customers and detractors thoughts and impressions about Serotta product. It can be a valuable tool is many respects atmo.


Thank you Ben and the rest of the Serotta clan! :cool:




William

[soulspinner]

Like the spacer pricing thread illustrated, this company has had the guts to be vulnerable to criticism as well as praise. If there really is no risk to it why arent there more companies willing to do it? The people this forum attracts are for the most part bright compassionate people who enjoy the finer things and Serotta is one of finer products measured on any scale. Time to bundle up and flog the whip...

[BumbleBeeDave]

.. . had a negative experience in any way with anyone at Serotta. Everybody is human, everybody is interested, everybody is professional. That's something that simply cannot be enforced in a negative way by management or ownership. "Be happy and proud all the time or you're fired!" . . . It just doesn't work that way. That's why they have impressed me. Their leadership, i.e., Ben, has created the positive, proud attitude.

Never had any experience with Serotta that leaves me wondering about their skill, dedication or sanity . . .

Now, SANDY and KEVAN, on the other hand . . . ;) :rolleyes: :crap: :beer:

;)

BBD

[William]

.. . had a negative experience in any way with anyone at Serotta. Everybody is human, everybody is interested, everybody is professional. That's something that simply cannot be enforced in a negative way by management or ownership. "Be happy and proud all the time or you're fired!" . . . It just doesn't work that way. That's why they have impressed me. Their leadership, i.e., Ben, has created the positive, proud attitude.

Never had any experience with Serotta that leaves me wondering about their skill, dedication or sanity . . .

Now, SANDY and KEVAN, on the other hand . . . ;) :rolleyes: :crap: :beer:

;)

BBD

Though I can't say that I haven't had "any" bad experiences with Serotta and a Serotta rep, I still respect Ben and the products they produce.


William

[rwsaunders]

A true think tank, representing a cross section of America that the administration avoids talking about in public. I sum it up by the bumper sticker that I saw in Bilkeny's shop in Philly..."I ride a lugged steel frame and I vote."

Seriously, this is a great place to exchange ideas and research the issues that are important to a devoted group. The quick sense of humor that exists here, always make it a pleasure. What else can you say about a site that allows one to attach a "trash talking" banana guy or a smiley "moon" to one's comments?

[Bruce K]

To paraphrase the movie Kingdom of Heaven....

What is the value of the Forum?

Nothing...... Everything.

It is everything from mindless fun and humor to an excellent resource for information, shopping, fit, and everything cycling related.

It is a real tribute to Ben and Company that they have continued to make this forum a highly respected, highly valued resource in the cycling community.

I porbably would not own the 3 Serottas I do or care as much about the brand and the people without this forum all it provides.

BK

[Marcusaurelius]

It has certainly pushed me the direction of buying another Serotta. I've been curious about Serotta since I watched a criterim race with a team riding Serotta bicycles... I wonder what Serotta would have looked like if Ben had not bought the company back from outside owners in 1997.

[JasonF]

Aside from building outstanding bikes, I have great respect for Serotta maintaining a forum where competitor's bikes are often discussed, reviewed and raved about.

Ben & Co. have such (deserved) confidence in their product that they allow open and frank discussions of other brands on their own forum, at their own expense. I'm sure it's quite frustrating for them at times, but they should understand that these open exchanges build a great amount of goodwill for the Serotta brand.

[Birddog]

Serotta gets to look in on a "focus" group whenever it pleases them, although I'm sure that from time to time it more closely resembles some sort of large internet "therapy" group complete with all the attendant baggage. When I first stumbled onto this forum several years back in another iteration, I was quite surprised at the lack of censorship but then it struck me that Serotta and co were supremely confident in their product so ***. There is also much to be gained from the well reasoned (and sometimes the not so well reasoned) dissenting opinions. I often think that a lot more companies could use some dissenting opinions before making wholesale changes.

Birddog

[David Kirk]

If you were asked - as I am asking - to express your thoughts about the value of this forum to Ben and his staff, what would you say?

I wanted to bring this back to the original question. Most people have expressed how they feel about this wonderful place but very few have addressed the original question.

So what do you think the value of the forum is to Ben and company?

Dave

[Climb01742]

So what do you think the value of the forum is to Ben and company?

Dave

brand exposure
brand loyalty
brand interaction
research and insights into customers
all relatively cheaply.

[Skrawny]

So what do you think the value of the forum is to Ben and company?

It is a good question...
This forum means a lot to this forum.
Just look at the support that has poured out to members that have reached out for help. However, Serotta is in the BUSINESS of building bicycles, not here to support a niche of obsessive cyclists. Ben et al. do great things for the cycling community; they sponsor collegiate cycling, charities such as Davis Phinney, Breast Cancer and more. But, if any business wants to stay in busness, they have to keep making money and get something out of any activity they do -even if it is charitable...

Looking at this from a purely Machiavellian perspective:
Only Serotta knows how much this costs in $$ and man hours (Serotta Andrew doesn't do this on his free time).
How much PR do they get out of the money they invest in this forum?
How many SALES does it result in?
The big one: Could that money be better spent elsewhere??

Witness the loss of sponsorship in the Kodak/SN cycling team. They looked at the numbers and decided that the money was better spent expanding the demo program.

I spoke with Ben about the forum once. He did seem awfully concerned that we were inclusive of new visitors.

I HOPE, and believe, that this forum is worth it for Serotta, but the proof is that it still exists.

-s

[Serpico]

.
.
if this forum closes my workday productivity goes up at least 30%

don't do it Ben
.
.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . they kept the Forum running just to keep us "regulars" busy so we WON'T have time to visit the factory! :rolleyes: :beer:

BBD

[tch]

1) the brand loyalty built here is incredible. What other than true belief, trust, and complete enthusiasm verging on fanaticism allows the company to sell an $8,000 frame? Think about it: even the most respected individual builders can't charge that much -- but people trust Serotta so much that they are willing to go there.
2) much like sponsoring a race team or supporting charitable causes, the forum provides an opportunity for Ben & co. to be visible while attached to "community" enterprises. And coincidentally, Ben might becoming one of the most respected figures in cycling -- not for his frame-building skills, but for his tolerance, enthusiasm, and commitment to cycling in general.

Neither of these two things can be bad for business.

[johnmdesigner]

I tend to do almost all of my compairson shopping on the web.
In 2004 after 20 years on my De-Rosa I was ready for a new bike.
I discovered Serotta by doing a search.
2005 I was fitted and bought my first Serotta.
2006 I convinced a friend to buy one.
2007 I have just ordered my second.
It is through this website and forum that my knowledge of all things cycling related has become more important to me.
If I want an honest opinion about anything cycling related I would come to this forum.
I applaude Ben & Co. for being market saavy and realizing that this is now the way people shop.
Value to Serotta: Priceless ;)

[Ahneida Ride]

Ditto to all. But a point that hasn't been mentioned - By hosting a forum where knowledgable cyclist can talk about any brand of bike or frame, including all of Serotta's fiercest competitors, Serotta demonstrates complete confidence in their products. That is very, very impressive, atmo.

But I bought one because Serotta's confidence has been earned - It was the best bike I rode.


Absolutey, I purchased a Serotta precisely because of this fact.

[BoulderGeek]

My views have been expressed perfectly, earlier on in this thread.

It's tough to separate the subjective warm fuzzies I feel about this forum, and guess at the objective value to the Company.

I am certain that I will buy another Serotta at some point, based on what I have learned and grown to appreciate here. So, in some regard, it certainly spurs sales.

I also spend time on VFRDiscussion.com, a forum for Honda VFR750/800 owners. I feel similarly about them. As they are not funded by a company, I give $20 a year, as do nearly every member, to keep it running. And, we've had to pitch in more in times of crisis, but it is worth it.

I'd pay for this board. Not that I want to. But, as an example of loyalty and customer value, where everyone wants their web content for free, I think that is a definitive sentiment.

Also, i think this forum generates intangible Serotta brand loyalty in the real world. Yesterday, on my ride through Boulder county, I passed a guy on a black CSi. I flipped around and caught up to him, asking if he was someone I may have spoken to on the Forum. He wasn't, but after I described it to him, he said that he wanted to get into it.

Now, that type of interaction is multi-faceted: we built a camaraderie that says "Serotta owners are friendly, helpful and outgoing." If this interaction and feeling get transmitted to other friends of his looking to buy bikes, that's greater sales and brand recognition. Same thing with the ZForum, if he comes here, gets turned on to the vibe,introduces fence-sitting friends, etc, again, greater exposure and cohesiveness.

I certainly don't see the big Taiwanese manufacturers engendering this type of motivation. Nobody chasing down Trek riders to chat about the singular coolness of their chosen ride.

[cadence90]

I wanted to bring this back to the original question. Most people have expressed how they feel about this wonderful place but very few have addressed the original question.

So what do you think the value of the forum is to Ben and company?

Dave
I would suppose, in concise terms: access to varied information developed by a pretty sophisticated public.

My opinion, as a relative newcomer, is that the forum has several great aspects that separate it from other forums:
1) It is very well organized (only 6 sub-forums in total, only 2 bike-specific forums), so it is not a monster to navigate. Serotta can quickly read through various topics and gauge the market pulse.
2) The sophistication of most posters seems to be very high, so the postings are often very well-presented and expressed.
3) The active presence of more than a few other industry "giants", which I think is unique to a "public" (i.e. non frame-builders, etc.) forum, contributes a level of professional expertise unmatched in most other forums.
4) The freedom of expression that is allowed and drives interesting discussions, Serotta-related or not, seems to me a very democratic and successful contribution to cycling in general.

Also, although I do not currently own a Serotta, the brand is definitely on my mind when I'm here (and often when I'm not). The posting of other bikes, etc. allows for a fluid, non-aggressive exchange of developments, imho. The openness and high value of most of the topics seems to me far less insular and also more effective than, say, the Moots forum (just to cite another forum privately sponsored by a great frame builder).

[atmo]

3) The active presence of more than a few other industry "giants", which I think is unique to a "public" (i.e. non frame-builders, etc.) forum, contributes a level of professional expertise unmatched in most other forums.


two related posts from a older thread -
this one (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=161562&postcount=14)
and
this one (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=161576&postcount=17) atmo.

[cadence90]

two related posts from a older thread -
this one (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=161562&postcount=14)
and
this one (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=161576&postcount=17) atmo.
Eggsachstly!

It's all been said before, eh? :) ;)