Converting 1x11 back to 2x11

[weisan]

I acquired a bike that came with SRAM Rival HRD 1x11. I have tried it for a couple of rides, still think I prefer the double setup. I am trying to figure out the way to convert back to a double without incurring too much expense as well as being able to re-use most if not all of the current components. There are a couple of challenges I need to overcome. I want to retain the current shifters but I need to be able to add shifting capability for the front derailleur. For that, I am thinking of just adding a downtube shifter. I will then change out the 1x crankset and replace it with a GXP double crankset that I have available. Do I need to do anything for the clutch rear derailleur I currently have or will it work seamlessly whether it's 1x or 2x?

http://alicehui.com/bike/Plug/IMG_9258_2.jpg

The full specs :
http://www.chargebikes.com/plug-5/

[Epicus07]

With how popular 1x has become, why not just try and trade groups ?

[Mzilliox]

for sure you should make your 17th bike more like your others, why have variety? :bike:

maybe try a different sized ring or cassette first? also, there's a good chance it was optimized for 1x and thus will not clear a double crankset at the chainstays

[bicycletricycle]

Time machine :)

[R3awak3n]

for sure you should make your 17th bike more like your others, why have variety? :bike:

maybe try a different sized ring or cassette first? also, there's a good chance it was optimized for 1x and thus will not clear a double crankset at the chainstays

Highly doubt that... I bet a 2x crank will clear just fine. Very few bikes are optimized for 1x only.

Also your problem might be the clutch rd, dont thibk they play bery well with derailleurs.

I say sell the geoup and buy a 2x group

[yinzerniner]

Rival 22 HRD left shifters are pretty widely available for not that much, and if you don't mind mixing and matching I believe Rival HRD and SRAM S-700 shifters share the same internals, and the S700 series is usually cheaper. You can get a left 2x shifter, sell the 1x shifter, add just about any SRAM RD and a Yaw FD and good chainrings for less than a total outlay of $150, maybe even less if you're willing to also sell your chainring and RD.

The clutch RD will NOT work in 2x setup. You will need a regular medium or long cage SRAM RD.

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE=weisan;2424547]I acquired a bike that came with SRAM Rival HRD 1x11. I have tried it for a couple of rides, still think I prefer the double setup. I am trying to figure out the way to convert back to a double without incurring too much expense as well as being able to re-use most if not all of the current components. There are a couple of challenges I need to overcome. I want to retain the current shifters but I need to be able to add shifting capability for the front derailleur. For that, I am thinking of just adding a downtube shifter. I will then change out the 1x crankset and replace it with a GXP double crankset that I have available. Do I need to do anything for the clutch rear derailleur I currently have or will it work seamlessly whether it's 1x or 2x?

http://alicehui.com/bike/Plug/IMG_9258_2.jpg

? clamp-on..no brazeon on downtube.
New rear der, new LH shifter..right above. crank, maybe cogset..lot$..even at co-op prices.

[chiasticon]

for sure you should make your 17th bike more like your others, why have variety? :bike:

maybe try a different sized ring or cassette first? also, there's a good chance it was optimized for 1x and thus will not clear a double crankset at the chainstaysagreed. you have a million bikes, so enjoy some variety. give it some time. maybe it's just how/where you're riding it? so go explore more!

as far as actually converting back to 2X. one option is just selling the group and getting another; it's CX season so surely someone would love the group or parts of it. otherwise, you'll need new FD and RD (1X clutch you have on there doesn't work with 2X setups) as well as the guts for the left shifter. all of these things, I could actually sell you (including the shifter guts). so get in touch if you're interested. you will have to pull the left shifter though, and possibly bleed the line, etc...

[hokoman]

Holy moly you guys are fast... i start typing and get bumped to the bottom. I just learned clutch doesn't play well with 2x. I turned mine off on my conversion (shimano).

[R3awak3n]

agreed. you have a million bikes, so enjoy some variety. give it some time. maybe it's just how/where you're riding it? so go explore more!

as far as actually converting back to 2X. one option is just selling the group and getting another; it's CX season so surely someone would love the group or parts of it. otherwise, you'll need new FD and RD (1X clutch you have on there doesn't work with 2X setups) as well as the guts for the left shifter. most of these things, I could actually sell you. so get in touch if you're interested. you will have to pull the left shifter though, and possibly bleed the line, etc...


but why are we telling him what he wants? if he wants to go back to 2x what is the problem? There are a lot of people that do not like or want 1x, I don't think exploring more has anything to do with what system he prefers.

[peanutgallery]

1x is definitely more of a cross or a gravel thing. You can go to 2x...but it isn't going to be cheap. Just get a new kit and sell the old one. The only parts you can re-use are the calipers and the rear shifter. You'll have to do something about your rear wheel too

Have fun

[weisan]

R3 pal, that's ok, I think my pals here made some really good points. Let me consider them before I make any changes.

Thank you all.

[BikeNY]

1x is definitely more of a cross or a gravel thing. You can go to 2x...but it isn't going to be cheap. Just get a new kit and sell the old one. The only parts you can re-use are the calipers and the rear shifter. You'll have to do something about your rear wheel too

Have fun

What does he have to do with the rear wheel?:confused:

[Mzilliox]

Highly doubt that... I bet a 2x crank will clear just fine. Very few bikes are optimized for 1x only.

Also your problem might be the clutch rd, dont thibk they play bery well with derailleurs.

I say sell the geoup and buy a 2x group

you might be right, you might not be right. the original Plug from this company was a single speed bike. this is the "original single speed evolved" for all roads according to their marketing. perhaps an optimized single speed is a double, but i have a strange feeling this is a 1x only frame. i mean it clears 42s, you gotta get the clearance somewhere.

[Mzilliox]

What does he have to do with the rear wheel?:confused:

if its xd freehub with 10-42 one may want to go to a standard freehub body for double applications

[yinzerniner]

What does he have to do with the rear wheel?:confused:

Original spec sheet says the wheel has an XD driver, not sure how well they play with 2x setups. But the pic the OP posted sure looks like it has a different wheelset and a non-XD cassette.

[R3awak3n]

you might be right, you might not be right. the original Plug from this company was a single speed bike. this is the "original single speed evolved" for all roads according to their marketing. perhaps an optimized single speed is a double, but i have a strange feeling this is a 1x only frame. i mean it clears 42s, you gotta get the clearance somewhere.

Its possible, I know 1x bikes only are out there but if he mentioned he wanted to put a DT on it then I figured there was a braze on for it (looks like there isnt but is there a FD cable hanger so that he could do a bar end? I dunno, I don't even know what brand the bike is. Also on the clearance, plenty of bikes are 2x and clear a 2.1, thats why I did not assume it was 1x only.

I guess we will never know :banana:


edit - there isnt a cable hanger on the other side. I guess either one of those clamp things which are aweful or etap (which may not clear tire and I know weisan does not want to spend that kind of cash). 1x it is... maybe smaller cassette in the back if your legs can handle it

[weisan]

You pals are SO GOOD! Nothing seems to escape your eagle eye.

Yes, you are correct, this bike came with XD on the original set of wheels. What you see in the picture is a non-conforming regular 10 speed shimano cassette on a wheelset that I recently got from eBay that I am trying out on this bike. It's far from perfect but i managed to make them work, grudgingly.

[weisan]

R3 and Mz pal, you are both correct. This bike, I think, is optimized for 1x11 and hydro. It doesn't even have a cable hanger for the left side on the downtube, so I had to figure something out if I want to go 2X or put a downtube shifter there. As far as chainstay clearance for a double crankset, I don't really know if it's there or something I just need to try out and see.

[yinzerniner]

You pals are SO GOOD! Nothing seems to escape your eagle eye.

Yes, you are correct, this bike came with XD on the original set of wheels. What you see in the picture is a non-conforming regular 10 speed shimano cassette on a wheelset that I recently got from eBay that I am trying out on this bike. It's far from perfect but i managed to make them work, grudgingly.

So......

Not to try to guide the discussion away from the original request, but a 10 speed cassette with the 11 speed SRAM exact actuation group will probably shift like garbage. Also even a wide range 10 speed cassette of 11-36 will feel pretty inadequate with the 40T chainring on anything faster than 25mph.

Did you happen to try the bike out utilizing the stock 10x42 11 speed cassette and 40t chainring? I only ask because the stock range is pretty close to a road compact with an 11-28 cassette (slightly lower gear-inch bottom and top end), but with larger jumps, so if you're riding more road style the cadence differentiation could be the determining factor as to why you're not getting along with 1x that well.

[charliedid]

Too much hassle IMO and as you mentioned the bike was designed around 1X

I'd trade or sell the entire thing.

Have fun

[weisan]

yinzer pal, thanks for continuing to engage me here.

This is the original wheelset with the XD drive and I have ridden on them for a couple of rides that are mostly paved and a bit of gravel. But I think you are right, it's the cadence that is tripping me up and the fact that it's not used in the environment that it was optimized for ie. cyclocross or gravel riding.

http://alicehui.com/bike/Plug/IMG_9247_2.jpg

The one with the 10-speed cassette is a set of wheels that I recently got and was just being impatient and wanting to try them out even though I know it's not quite the right compatibility. I don't mean for this to be long-term.
- the shifting is....surprisingly not that bad, in fact, it shifts fine for all the gears and stays quiet except maybe on the smallest cog, that might just be a bit of adjustment needed on the limit screw.

[chiasticon]

but why are we telling him what he wants? if he wants to go back to 2x what is the problem? There are a lot of people that do not like or want 1x, I don't think exploring more has anything to do with what system he prefers.I'm not trying to tell him what he wants. just saying he seems to have a new bike from the co-op every other week (lucky him!). this one is different than the other builds I've seen. he's also expressed before that "I'm not a g-roader" but that's what this bike is built for... so I'm just saying maybe give it time and try doing what the bike does best instead of trying to make it like the other ones.

I also offered up advice on how to do the actual conversion (and said I'd sell him parts). so clearly I don't really care what he does, just offering advice! :)

[weisan]

Yeah and that's ok, I didn't really take it that way. My philosophy when it comes to asking for advice or help is...I have to be opened to hearing all the different viewpoints, but which advice I take, now that's up to me. :D

[R3awak3n]

I'm not trying to tell him what he wants. just saying he seems to have a new bike from the co-op every other week (lucky him!). this one is different than the other builds I've seen. he's also expressed before that "I'm not a g-roader" but that's what this bike is built for... so I'm just saying maybe give it time and try doing what the bike does best instead of trying to make it like the other ones.

I also offered up advice on how to do the actual conversion (and said I'd sell him parts). so clearly I don't really care what he does, just offering advice! :)

:beer:

[tedski]

I had my Salsa Colossal set up similar to your bike with a XD 10-42 rear end. but I run a 44T QX1 ring up front, honestly didn't feel lack of any gearing. I am considering putting a 46T up front, that will basically get the gear range wider than a compact chain set with 11-28 rear end. May be try a bigger front ring??

[weisan]

for sure you should make your 17th bike more like your others

he seems to have a new bike from the co-op every other week (lucky him!). this one is different than the other builds I've seen.

ok, Mz and chiasticon pal, you guys are freaking me out, are you monitoring my whereabouts everyday? :
or maybe you have a spy camera somewhere in my garage. :D

...one thing I know I would never do is tell anyone exactly how many bikes I have...and sometimes, to be honest, I don't even know the answer myself unless I sit down and start counting....MZ pal, you are getting awfully close, though. :rolleyes: :eek:

I am a hoarder, yes, that I admit but I am not obsessed with the numbers or do it to puff up my ego, not at all...when people ask me why then did I do it? I just say, "I guess it just happens, I dunno." When I see something I like AND the price is right, I just go ahead and get it without thinking. Life is too short to commit any amount of brain power to agonize over little decisions such as these. One thing I will say is this...it seems like, over the last 5 or 6 years, I have become more relaxed about this. I seldom lust or go out of the way to find or get something and the more relaxed and the less anxious I am, the easier it seems that the right stuff will come along. It's almost like they just fall onto my lap. Karma? :p

[weisan]

May be try a bigger front ring??

thanks ted pal, someone else also mentioned that, I will get it a try when I get the chance.

[pbarry]

Running 36/46 cross crank and 11-32 cassette on my lowly Plug 3. Works fine for road or gravel and the shifting jumps are close enough it doesn't offend my roadie dna. You can make 2x work on this, maybe with a 46 or 48 max big ring, continuous cable run for the front shifter. Have fun!

[pbarry]

Can the clutch be turned off on Sram mechs? Shimano has an on/off lever, right?

[jtbadge]

Can the clutch be turned off on Sram mechs? Shimano has an on/off lever, right?

The issue for 2x is the geometry of the CX1 derailleurs. They weren't designed to handle the difference in chainline or chain length that comes with multiple chainrings.

You can run a SRAM 10 speed clutch RD (e.g. X9) with 2x and 10 or 11 speed road shifters.

[pbarry]

^^ Thank you! This stuff is new to me. 🍺

[BikeNY]

I had my Salsa Colossal set up similar to your bike with a XD 10-42 rear end. but I run a 44T QX1 ring up front, honestly didn't feel lack of any gearing. I am considering putting a 46T up front, that will basically get the gear range wider than a compact chain set with 11-28 rear end. May be try a bigger front ring??

Putting a bigger chainring on your bike does nothing to increase your gear range. With 1x 44t chainring and a 10-42T cassette, your gear range is 420%. Moving to a 46t chainring, your gear range is still 420%, you're just changing where that gear ratio is. With the 44t, your low gear is 1.05 and your high gear is 4.4. With a 46t, your low gear is 1.1 and your high gear is 4.6.

Your gear range is already wider than a 50/34 x 11-28 setup, which has a range of about 375%. Throw an 11-32 cassette on and the range is about the same as your setup. The big difference is you get get much smaller jumps between gears with a 2x setup. That matters to some people and doesn't matter to others.

I'm in the process of switching my gravel/allroad bike over to 1x11, interested to see if I can deal with the jumps.

[yinzerniner]

Putting a bigger chainring on your bike does nothing to increase your gear range. With 1x 44t chainring and a 10-42T cassette, your gear range is 420%. Moving to a 46t chainring, your gear range is still 420%, you're just changing where that gear ratio is. With the 44t, your low gear is 1.05 and your high gear is 4.4. With a 46t, your low gear is 1.1 and your high gear is 4.6.

Your gear range is already wider than a 50/34 x 11-28 setup, which has a range of about 375%. Throw an 11-32 cassette on and the range is about the same as your setup. The big difference is you get get much smaller jumps between gears with a 2x setup. That matters to some people and doesn't matter to others.

I'm in the process of switching my gravel/allroad bike over to 1x11, interested to see if I can deal with the jumps.

One interesting thing to note is how changing the front chainring and/or cassette on a 1x11 setup can greatly influence your pedaling comfort with regards to cadence.

One might be in the ideal cadence at 25mph, but you're in between ideal cadence on a 10mph uphill because of the larger jumps of the wider range cassette. Swapping out the front chainring might get you into your ideal ratios with the same cassette, and conversely keeping chainring and swapping in a different cassette could do the same.

I only found this out recently when I changed cranks and wanted to see how a different sized chainring would feel. On a regular ride with the old 42t chainring there were a few sections where I wasn't quite in an ideal rhythm, while changing to a 46t made those sections feel way better at the expense of lower gearing which I didn't need on that particular route. If I need the lower gearing for another route then I'll just swap out the chainring, which for me is easier/cleaner than swapping cassettes.

[tedski]

I only found this out recently when I changed cranks and wanted to see how a different sized chainring would feel. On a regular ride with the old 42t chainring there were a few sections where I wasn't quite in an ideal rhythm, while changing to a 46t made those sections feel way better at the expense of lower gearing which I didn't need on that particular route. If I need the lower gearing for another route then I'll just swap out the chainring, which for me is easier/cleaner than swapping cassettes.

Thank you yinzerniner, that's the point I am trying to get to but fall short of explaining myself. :)

[weisan]

Converted to 2x this morning and went out for a ride.

A much happier camper all around.

Glad I tried it out before I decide.

I am not always bound by rules or traditions or others expectations, sometimes it's whatever works. This is the right call for me, the kind of riding I am doing with this bike. It's not really a gravel bike, more of an allroad, and for that, double makes more sense.

http://alicehui.com/bike/Plug/IMG_9549.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/Plug/IMG_9550.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/Plug/IMG_9551.jpg


http://alicehui.com/bike/Plug/IMG_9552.jpg


http://alicehui.com/bike/Plug/IMG_9553.jpg

[peanutgallery]

All right, that's an atrocity:)

But I think its funny

[weisan]

peanut pal, you already know this, the sole purpose of my existence is to keep you entertained. :D

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/5c/d4/76/5cd476b84faebbed64850f3639861205.jpg

[peanutgallery]

You need more zip ties

[weisan]

You need more zip ties

nah, it will hold.

https://images.propstore.com/230523.jpg

[Wayne77]

My take: the more road-accomodating a gravel bike needs to be the less 1X makes sense. Conversely, the more off-road oriented (steep, chunky, single-tracky, cyclocrossy, etc) it needs to be the more 1X makes sense; The gravel bike in the initial post looks pretty ‘road-leaning’ to me. Maybe there’s a need to do a lot of asphalt to get to the gravel...or a desire to use it for group rides or a winter commuter). therefore I’m not surprised 2X would be a logical next step...if that’s currently the focus or it will be. If so, I think it makes total sense. Either way, that bike is effin’ cool.

I’m not addressing the original post in particular, but when I see people throw 28-32mm slicks on their 1X cx or gravel bikes, I always wonder how long it’ll be before they wish they had a 2X drivetrain. Obviously that’s a broad brush stroke, but I always come back to one fact: there’s massive variety in viable configuration options for gravel bikes compared to road-only bikes...there are no universal rules of thumb. The only variable that matters is the owner and whatever aspects they personally choose to optimize at the expense of others. Those trade-offs are individualized decisions, based on very unique personal use cases. It goes without saying of course that there is no guarantee others won’t scratch their heads wondering if the owner is on crack when they see the build :-). Sorry to go off topic. It’s just a thought that comes to mind every now and then in equipment-of-choice discussions like this one.

[weisan]

Excellent analysis. Thanks Wayne pal.

[oldpotatoe]

All right, that's an atrocity:)

But I think its funny

Yikes...seems easier to mess around with gear ratios rather than electrical tape and zip ties...oh well, perfect for the co-op...I guess...:eek:

A barend would have been a bit more ‘sanitary’, imho, of course. And easier to reach.

[charliedid]

Thanks for getting us out of this awful mess, Macgyver pal.

[weisan]

Zip ties along with velcro and the bicycle are some of greatest invention of mankind.

Did 40 miles yesterday on the new setup, everything works perfectly. I can see the appeal of downtube shifter, this thing just plain works, no buts no ifs, flip the lever and it shifts, no wonder he likes it.

https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/06/Lance-Armstrong-Tour-de-France-2003-Dura-Ace-7800-630x420.jpg

[weisan]

I am happy to report that my attempt to convert 1x11 to 2x11 is now complete and successful.

What I did :

Replace GXP single with double crank 53-39
Add shimano 105 front derailleur
Replace SRAM Rival 1 type 2 rear clutch derailleur with SRAM type 2 X9 10 speed derailleur
Add RoadLink derailleur hanger extension
Add thumb downtube shifter for front shifting (use c-clamps, no boss)

Everything is working perfectly now. Shifting flawless. I am happy.

The reason I am doing the conversion is because this is not a dedicated gravel bike. It also serves as bad weather bike and get put on normal slicks for road duties.

http://alicehui.com/bike/Plug/IMG_0122.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/Plug/IMG_0123.jpg

http://alicehui.com/bike/Plug/IMG_0124.jpg