Scooters unsafe?

[campy man]

Scooter accidents on the rise ... shocking :confused:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/scooter-use-is-rising-in-major-cities-so-are-trips-to-the-emergency-room/2018/09/06/53d6a8d4-abd6-11e8-a8d7-0f63ab8b1370_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a090a96bda54

[bicycletricycle]

I have some concerns with the litter the streets business model of these things but I have no concerns with the safety of voluntary activities. If we had a big increase in bicycle riding we would also have an increase in injuries.

[Seramount]

hadn't had any experience with these until very recently.

what I observed wasn't all that positive...

way too many scooter drivers staring at phones while being generally oblivious to other road users.

apparently, a ball cap worn backwards serves as suitable head protection.

[seanile]

apparently, a ball cap worn backwards serves as suitable head protection.ah, the helmet debate. :rolleyes:

[smontanaro]

I don't think we have electric rental scooters here in Chicago. If there are any, they must still be few and far between. I have seen people on electric skateboards. They can fly down the bike lanes, which can be a bit nerve-wracking on a narrow two-way "protected" bike lane as we have on Dearborn.

I've also seen a couple variations on one-wheel things. Kind of like Segways, but without the handlebar. (We have Segways too, but mostly for guided tours, PITA to try getting around a flock of them.) The few I've seen, while they move along at a good clip, the pilots seem be paying a bit more attention to conditions.

[ultraman6970]

Handling and common sense are big factors in accidents.

[cachagua]

Here's what I don't like about the scooters:

I've said elsewhere that drivers are too well protected inside their cars, and don't care about bumping into things. They don't have to! And that the way to achieve real traffic safety is to increase the drivers' investment in it, by perching each driver on his own front bumper -- the crumple zone is your knees, and the airbag is your head, baby! Now watch where you're goin'!

However the reports of the way people operate scooters don't seem to support this hypothesis, do they.

[cmg]

if your waiting for the government to save you, lots of luck with that. as stated "Handling and common sense are big factors in accidents." can't legislate that.

[C40_guy]

I have some concerns with the litter the streets business model of these things but I have no concerns with the safety of voluntary activities.

I spent a couple of days in Santa Monica, where Bird and Lime scooters are everywhere. I'd estimate that 10% of the riders routinely do really stupid things, riding fast on sidewalks, turning corners on sidewalks without slowing or looking, bombing the running/bike paths at top speed, with no regard for foot or other traffic.

These things do not handle or stop well. Put two riders on (commonly done) and it's even worse.

[bicycletricycle]

I spent a couple of days in Santa Monica, where Bird and Lime scooters are everywhere. I'd estimate that 10% of the riders routinely do really stupid things, riding fast on sidewalks, turning corners on sidewalks without slowing or looking, bombing the running/bike paths at top speed, with no regard for foot or other traffic.

These things do not handle or stop well. Put two riders on (commonly done) and it's even worse.

I have been trying to grapple with this issue. I don’t see how the rental company can be held responsible for the actions of their customers (practically of theoretically). It sounds like a law enforcement problem to me.

[Road Fan]

Scooter accidents on the rise ... shocking :confused:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/scooter-use-is-rising-in-major-cities-so-are-trips-to-the-emergency-room/2018/09/06/53d6a8d4-abd6-11e8-a8d7-0f63ab8b1370_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a090a96bda54

Kind of a generic comment: "Scooter" used to be a short from of "motor scooter," which was often a Vespa or Lambretta machine ranging from 50 cc to 250 cc in displacement. I had a Vespa 150 in college, and in Illinois it had to be licensed as a motorcycle. It had two saddles, decent brakes, suspension, headlight, turn signals and brake light, and was easily capable of 50 mph and could touch 70 under favorable wind conditions. While my school buds said my helmet had to be called a "crash hat" if I rode a Vespa, the bike fell under then-mandatory Illinois helmet requirements.

If we on the pedalled cycling side think helmets are essential for safety at bicycle speeds (10 mph to 25 mph?), modern scooter speeds (20 mph max?) can be twice cycling speed. (Well, maybe I'm uniquely challenged on that!!). So the energy of a collision with a stopped object is four times that of a 10 mph vehicle. The various Gov'ts should be considering this point.

[ptourkin]

Kind of a generic comment: "Scooter" used to be a short from of "motor scooter," which was often a Vespa or Lambretta machine ranging from 50 cc to 250 cc in displacement. I had a Vespa 150 in college, and in Illinois it had to be licensed as a motorcycle. It had two saddles, decent brakes, suspension, headlight, turn signals and brake light, and was easily capable of 50 mph and could touch 70 under favorable wind conditions. While my school buds said my helmet had to be called a "crash hat" if I rode a Vespa, the bike fell under then-mandatory Illinois helmet requirements.

If we on the pedalled cycling side think helmets are essential for safety at bicycle speeds (10 mph to 25 mph?), modern scooter speeds (20 mph max?) can be twice cycling speed. (Well, maybe I'm uniquely challenged on that!!). So the energy of a collision with a stopped object is four times that of a 10 mph vehicle. The various Gov'ts should be considering this point.

The Birds and Limes are limited to about 17 mph. I've seen 22 on a descent but it's really trying to hold that back.

When these incidents create numbers even close to cars, I'll be concerned. I use one every Saturday for post ride beer and burrito/pizza. They're a great way to get around my urban neighborhood.

[Road Fan]

The Birds and Limes are limited to about 17 mph. I've seen 22 on a descent but it's really trying to hold that back.

When these incidents create numbers even close to cars, I'll be concerned. I use one every Saturday for post ride beer and burrito/pizza. They're a great way to get around my urban neighborhood.

I don't always like to throw a lot of science around, but your likelihood of injury in a crash goes up with the square of the difference in speed, because the kinetic energy you are carrying increases by that factor. If a commuting cyclist is trying not to get sweaty, he/she might be going 10 mph. To double the energy and your risk of injury, you only need to increase your speed by about 40 % (square root of 2 is 1.414, about a 40% increase).

My point is that if you crash on birdy or citrusey scooter, you face at least the same risk as you do in a similar crash on a bicycle. "only 17 mph" does not make me feel safe, especially if the birdy powered bikes are trying to co-opt the narrow bike lanes.