1" vs. 1 1/8" headtube

[Velociotis]

Hi-

I am looking at two NOS serotta frames one '05 has the current 1 1/8" head tube and the other '03 has a 1" headtube. Other than wider choice of forks/headsets, is there any other reasons to stay away form the 1"? Are 1" carbon steerers okay?

Thanks.

[Smiley]

If all was equal , including price go for the larger steerer tube, otherwise pick the best fit or color bike.

[pdxmech13]

Does anyone even make things for 1' anymore :D :D

[Ken Robb]

I have 1" Ouzo Pro on my Legend and it's fine as was the Profile Design AC1 on my Waterford. I have 1" steel on several bikes and they are dandy too. I think all of the 1 1/8" stems fit 1" steerers when used with a shim so everybody makes stuff for 1".

[Jeff N.]

The larger size is mountain bike trickle-down. The larger headtube makes for a stronger tube, ditto steerer tube and that fact, along with overall ease of production for companies that make both mountain and road bikes, is the reason 1 1/8" is now considered standard. All else being equal, go with the 1 1/8" for sure. A one inch carbon steerer will/would work just fine, but limit your spacers with a 1" carbon steerer. Plus, you'll get more flex. With an alloy or cromo steerer in 1"(like a Kestrel EMS for example, or a Reynolds Ouzo Comp)) it's less of an issue. Same with a 1 1/8" carbon steerer, simply because it'll be stronger for a given length than a 1". Weight gain is minimal, since thinner-walled tubes for the steerer and headtube may be utilized with the 1 1/8" diameter. Jeff N.

[Ken Robb]

I'm not convinced that we need anything bigger than 1" on road bikes. I swapped my 1" Ouzo Pro for an Ouzo Comp w/ alloy steerer on my Litespeed because I was using a lot of spacers and could tell no difference in ride.

I'm sure that a 1 1/8 steerer of steel or alloy is no real advantage but they probably do weigh more than a 1" tube. When was the last time you saw a bent 1" head tube?

[vaxn8r]

I don't believe it makes a measurable or noticeable difference other than looks. If I was getting something new I'd probably go with 1 1/8 simply because there are more component choices now. But I wouldn't give a second thought about buying something used with 1" if I liked it.

I ride a 56. Maybe if you're heavy and ride a tall frame YMMV.

[manet]

Does anyone even make things for 1" anymore :D :D

male enhancement is no laughing matter

[Marcusaurelius]

I have a carbon fork with a 1" steel steer tube and it feels great but I tried a 1" carbon fork with a carbon steer tube and it felt very flexy and not very safe. I suppose if you weigh less than 180lbs you might not notice it but it was way too soft for me. I've never had a problem with carbon forks with 1 1/8 steer tube.

[H.Frank Beshear]

Does anyone even make things for 1' anymore :D :D
I've heard you can get a real nice 1" fork here atmo (http://www.kirkframeworks.com/index.htm)

[Fivethumbs]

A guy at a bike shop told me that anything larger than a 1 inch steerer on a road bike is overkill. Acutally, he was a homeless guy sleeping behind the bike shop...but he seemed like he knew what he was talking about.

[11.4]

Reasons FOR a 1-1/8 inch headtube:

1. Much more equipment is available and a shim isn't a great solution to a 1 inch steer. A 1-1/8" front end is the standard now whether you like it or not. Using a 1" to 1-1/8" shim means you need a 1-1/8" cap for a 1" steer, or at least a 1-1/8" spacer on top of the stem under a 1" cap, or else the cap doesn't sit properly on top of the stem. And 1" spacers can look undersized and weird under a 1-1/8" stem.
2. Most of the flex in a fork actually occurs in the steer, and 1-1/8 makes quite a bit of difference in terms of flex there. That's one practical reason why mountain bikes went that way in the first place. It wasn't just a marketing gimmick, as the troglodytes on this forum will suggest.
3. Most of the rest of the flex in your front end occurs around the stem, and a clamp around a 1-1/8" steer is meaningfully more rigid, especially in the lighter stems being sold today. I couldn't quantify this particular observation, but on the track in a kilo start or a sprint I'm always dealing with too much flex in almost all stems short of a steel monster, and the problem is quite noticeably worse with 1" systems (which persisted much longer in track frames than they did on the road, although now they are thankfully mostly gone).
3. A 1-1/8" steer also involves a larger diameter head tube. With oversize options in top tube and down tube, it gives a larger tube to connect to and at least marginally increases the stiffness of the whole front end. You aren't prying in one direction on the seat tube while your legs are pushing in the opposite direction, but you are doing exactly that to the head tube. It's the head tube and down tube that get some of the greatest stress in your pedaling. A significantly larger or re-shaped down tube is also easier to manage with a larger head tube.
4. You didn't say whether the 1" frame was threadless or threaded, though for an '03 I'd assume threadless. If threaded, bear in mind the differences in stack height between a threaded and a threadless system. You may be trying to buy some extra height for free anyway; on the other hand, I'm always trying to get my bars a bit lower on the frame and I prefer lower stack height.
5. If you go to sell a bike with 1" steer, it'll have depreciated excessively relative to one with a 1-1/8" steer. Heck, even Richard Sachs now builds with 1-1/8" steers by and large (not to single out Richard, since I can't think of a custom steel framebuilder who, as a group of builders with reactionary propensities overall, is sticking with 1"). And the Japanese keirin association is giving up on the 1" standard (which responds to those who point at Nagasawa and the like) they've legislated for about 35 years. Doesn't that tell you something?

Reasons AGAINST a 1-1/8" steer:

1. Ummmmm .....
2. Ummmmm .....
2. See "troglodyte."

[Velociotis]

Thanks for all the input. The 1"-er is significantly discounted, but still may not make sense. It'd be a 56cm, so not too much tube, but you're confirming some of the issues that I had heard.

[J.Greene]

Reasons FOR a 1-1/8 inch headtube:

Heck, even Richard Sachs now builds with 1-1/8" steers by and large (not to single out Richard, since I can't think of a custom steel framebuilder who, as a group of builders with reactionary propensities overall, is sticking with 1"


Huh? I don't think I've ever seen a Richard Sachs with a 1.125 steerer.

JG

[vaxn8r]

You're not going to have a problem with a 56cm frame and a 1" steerer.

Well, maybe if you're a track sprinter :)

Again, if your'e buying new it makes sense to go with the new 1 1/8" standard. Otherwise, on buying used, it wouldn't be high on my list for nixing the deal.

[Big Dan]

You can plug in a Reynolds 1 inch or a Alpha Q with no problems.
The stem with the shim works fine also . Pick the one you like better... :)

[JN8]

I saw on the Velo News site that Tyler Hamilton once snapped a head tube on Paris-Roubaix? Think it was a 1 1/8 though.

The rule that Mr. Zinn found was 5mm spacer minimum and 35 mm spacers max from one of the fork sellers to avoid this unfortunate incident. He was anwsering someone who snapped a steerer with a big stack. Tyler had a zero stack. I guess you need a Goldie Locks stack.

Although not useful for racing search Sheldon "hands up" Brown for an interesting steerer adaption.

I would think the headset vendors would make sure there is a smooth transition to that the head tube doesn't see a focused stress where it is supported by the headset.

Saw an article once where someone snapped a rail for a seat. He was told to make sure the seat clamp was rounded where the seat rail exited the clamp. I guess that is a little off topic, but in the debate of how beefy a steerer we really need, I think the "other factors" tend to trump the diameter. Back when I was playing golf instead of biking we'd always cone the hosels of the club head to avoid premature shaft failure. Exactly the advise given for the broken seat rail and similar to Tyler's failure in the result.

[bshell]

get the one that speaks to you.

just make sure you can find a good 1" fork if you choose that frame (there should be many available). i have a legend w/ a 1" ouzo pro (carbon steerer) and it's great. i'm 180lbs. can't tell any difference from 1 1/8". all this worry over flex is funny/tiresome.

if 1" was okay for keirin racers for the last 35 years it will probably work for the rest of us.

hooray for your new frame!

[benb]

Reasons for threaded 1":

Convenience!

I have no bikes left with 1" steerers but I miss the ease of adjusting the stem/bars.

I went to swap the stem on my mountain bike last night, realized too late that the new stem clamps 1cm less steer tube then the old stem... now I need to go buy some additional spacers to get the front end back together again.

Heck with threaded I would not have even been swapping the stem, I'd just have raised it up!

One thing to keep in mind with Mountain bikes going to 1 1/8" is that most mountain bikes have suspension forks which weigh more then the entire frame & fork of a high end road bike. The stresses on a mountain bike are much different.

Heck I think the fork lowers on my Marzocchi fork are greater then 1" in diameter.. so having a 1" steer tube doesn't make much sense there. But that's not a road bike.

[musgravecycles]

Snipped:

Heck, even Richard Sachs now builds with 1-1/8" steers by and large (not to single out Richard, since I can't think of a custom steel framebuilder who, as a group of builders with reactionary propensities overall, is sticking with 1"). And the Japanese keirin association is giving up on the 1" standard (which responds to those who point at Nagasawa and the like) they've legislated for about 35 years. Doesn't that tell you something?


Richard and just about any builder building with lugs these days (Kirk, Daza, Curt, JP Weigle, myself, etc) still build with 1." There simply isn't a good selection of 1.125" lugs available yet...

But yer right that for anything but steel bikes with a steel steerer 1.125" is a better option.

[zank]

Not to mention that a piece of 36.0 mm head tube and a 1.125" steerer are HEAVY compared to a piece of 31.7 mm head tube and a 1" steerer. But, the 1.125" set does have its place for certain applications.

[Jeff N.]

Not to mention that a piece of 36.0 mm head tube and a 1.125" steerer are HEAVY compared to a piece of 31.7 mm head tube and a 1" steerer. But, the 1.125" set does have its place for certain applications.Weight gain can me very minimal if thinner-walled tubes are used with the 1 1/8" diameter. Jeff N.

[stevep]

A guy at a bike shop told me that anything larger than a 1 inch steerer on a road bike is overkill. Acutally, he was a homeless guy sleeping behind the bike shop...but he seemed like he knew what he was talking about.

funny,
i like it.
he was trying to sell you a 1" fork that he took out of the dumpster, right?

[J.Greene]

Weight gain can me very minimal if thinner-walled tubes are used with the 1 1/8" diameter. Jeff N.

so then what's the point? If you give up durability to save weigh just go cave in and buy a trek. Thinner steerers are not automatically the answer the way it is for other tubes atmo.

JG

[stevep]

I saw on the Velo News site that Tyler Hamilton once snapped a head tube on Paris-Roubaix? Think it was a 1 1/8 though.

.

on csc they had big big troubles w/ early forks on cervelos.
they were 1" i am pretty sure . they broke 8 forks in paris nice before they were able to replace them with time forks.

they were inexpensive junk made in a low bid factory in china.

i dont remember ty doing pr but i wont argue the forks busting.