SRAM Etap 1x11 gravel build, crazy?

[BikeNY]

So, I've been thinking about this for a bit now and done some research. Looks like I should be able to get a 10-42 cassette 1x11 setup with a WiFli derailleur and a Wolftooth Roadlink. I'm wondering if that will be enough range for me, or if I'll be disappointed.

My gravel bike build is more like a rough stuff road bike, currently running 650x2.35 Schwalbe Big One tires, 10 speed with: XX1 cranks with 42t/28t chainrings and an 11-36 cassette. I would size the chainring to keep the low gear about the same, as I need that for my offroad climbing. That would obviously reduce my top end by quite a bit, but I think I can live with that, as I rarely use the top couple of gears anyway. Not sure how I would feel about the increased jumps between cogs though. Current average tooth jump is 2.77 teeth, with the new setup it would be 3.2 teeth per shift.

Or do I hold out and wait for SRAM to release their Eagle 1x12 Etap in the hope that it will be compatible with their road shifters. I know it should be, but you never know! That would get me a clutch derailleur, an extra gear, and the ability to have an even bigger range. I assume it will be designed around a 10-50 cassette, which would get me a great range, but even bigger gaps between cogs of 3.6 teeth per shift. Does anybody make a 10-46t 12 speed cassette, might be a good compromise.

Just wanted to bounce this stuff off you guys, so feel free to throw you opinions out there! And no, I can't go 2x11 Etap, the front derailleur will not clear a 2.35" tire.

Thanks!

[jtbadge]

There's no benefit to 1x if you aren't getting a clutch rear derailleur. I wouldn't want to run those huge cassettes in rough terrain without a clutch.

Run Force 1 mechanical.

[morrisericd]

Not specifically and answer to your question, but an answer...

I'm running an XT Di2 rear derailleur and Shimano's new R8070 road shifters with an XT 11-46 cassette as my 1x gravel race bike and it works great! The new shifters are so much better (smaller) than the older ones. I'm getting set up for cross now and switched out my XT 11-46 cassette out for an Ultegra 11-32 one (tighter cluster) along with a shorter chain and that also seems to work well.

I second the make sure you have a clutch opinion.

[BikeNY]

Interesting that you both mention a clutch being important. Back in the day, I ran my mountain bike 1x8 without a clutch derailleur and without a narrow/wide chainring, as they didn't exist yet. I don't remember ever having chain drop issues.

[jtbadge]

Were you running a cassette with 40 tooth range? That’s a lot of chain to keep tensioned.

[chiasticon]

Interesting that you both mention a clutch being important. Back in the day, I ran my mountain bike 1x8 without a clutch derailleur and without a narrow/wide chainring, as they didn't exist yet. I don't remember ever having chain drop issues.it's true. and many cyclocrossers ran them this way before 1X and clutch RD'ers. but... such things exist now, and they're better-suited for the job. so nobody does that any more (except budget builds, I guess).

1X eTap (for road levers) will exist at some point. if it were me, I wouldn't rush to shoehorn some less-than-ideal version of it on my bike, instead of just waiting.

[JEFFTHEROBOT]

I am running a 1x setup with 42t chainring and the E*thirteen cassette. All I can say is DOPE. So good, zero problems, all the gearing I could ever want. Jumps aren't even noticeable. :cool:

[R3awak3n]

I would run 2x and just put a 34T cassete back there. Without wires, bike will still be easy to pack.

[BikeNY]

Were you running a cassette with 40 tooth range? That’s a lot of chain to keep tensioned.

Nope, usually an 11-32t. Would 8 more chainlinks really make that much of a difference? And I would be running a N/W ring, so that helps as well.

I am running a 1x setup with 42t chainring and the E*thirteen cassette. All I can say is DOPE. So good, zero problems, all the gearing I could ever want. Jumps aren't even noticeable. :cool:

Good to hear, What size cassette are you running?

I would run 2x and just put a 34T cassete back there. Without wires, bike will still be easy to pack.

As I wrote in my OP, I can't run Etap as a 2x, it's incompatible with tire bigger than around 42mm. This isn't a travel bike, so not concerning about packing. Although I think Etap would be awesome for a travel bike!

[Bob Ross]

Interesting that you both mention a clutch being important.

I'm starting to feel like Rip Van Winkle: This is the third thread on a cycling forum that I've read today that uses the term "clutch derailleur"

...a term which before today I had never once heard in my life. Ever. Da hell? Did someone issue a papal bull over the weekend decreeing that we had to start using this new term?

Get me up to speed, please: what are we talking about when we say "clutch derailleur"? Is this just the new way to differentiate spring-loaded mechanical ders from their servo-driven electronic brethren without having to explicitly state that?

[chiasticon]

wow, Bob Ross. pretty surprised you haven't heard the term before. been around a good while. and no, it's not a mechanical versus electronic thing.

"The point of the clutch mechanism is to tension the chain to keep it in place when riding over rough and uneven ground, eliminating or at least decreasing ‘chain slap’ — when the chain lashes the chainstay, potentially causing damage — and the risk of the chain unshipping completely."

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/need-clutch-rear-derailleur-380721

[jtbadge]

SRAM introduced clutch derailleurs in 2012.

https://www.sram.com/news/introducing-sram-type-2-rear-derailleur

Did you know cyclocross bikes have disc brakes now?

[.RJ]

Interesting that you both mention a clutch being important. Back in the day, I ran my mountain bike 1x8 without a clutch derailleur and without a narrow/wide chainring, as they didn't exist yet. I don't remember ever having chain drop issues.

You wont have a problem until mud/grit gets into the drivetrain... and then you wont be able to keep a chain on. But if you're only a fair weather rider its no problem with just the narrow-wide style chainring.

Clutch derailleur is old news, and all the 'new' tech around 1x is awesome and simple and way better than my old cobbled together solutions.

[R3awak3n]

Nope, usually an 11-32t. Would 8 more chainlinks really make that much of a difference? And I would be running a N/W ring, so that helps as well.



Good to hear, What size cassette are you running?



As I wrote in my OP, I can't run Etap as a 2x, it's incompatible with tire bigger than around 42mm. This isn't a travel bike, so not concerning about packing. Although I think Etap would be awesome for a travel bike!

Have u tried it? I have seen someone 48mm tires without any problems

[BikeNY]

You wont have a problem until mud/grit gets into the drivetrain... and then you wont be able to keep a chain on. But if you're only a fair weather rider its no problem with just the narrow-wide style chainring.

Clutch derailleur is old news, and all the 'new' tech around 1x is awesome and simple and way better than my old cobbled together solutions.

Thanks for that. I am totally sold on the 1x setup for mountain biking. I've moved on from those 1x8 setup, currently have 2 bikes setup with Shimano 1x11 (W/ clutch & N/W of course) and couldn't be happier with them. I'm just not positive it will give me everything I want for my 'road' bike.

[Bob Ross]

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/need-clutch-rear-derailleur-380721

Huh. Clearly I am living under a rock. Or, perhaps the fact that I rarely ever ride near a rock -- I'm a dyed-in-the-wool roadie who only just got his first dirt/gravel bike in July -- means I'm completely oblivious to the technology used on off-road bikes. Just seemed especially odd that the term showed up seemingly out of the blue in several places all at once.

Did you know cyclocross bikes have disc brakes now?

You must think you're here (https://www.bikeforums.net/index.php) :banana:

[the bottle ride]

Curious to hear more feedback on the Shimano 1x solutions for wide ranges

I love my CX1 set up but would like to have a wide range set up

[BikeNY]

Have u tried it? I have seen someone 48mm tires without any problems

I have not tried it. Also, as mentioned in my OP, I am running 27.5x2.35 tires. I am 99.99% sure it will not play nice with these tires.

I did see an Open at my LBS the other week setup with 650x47 tires and 2x Etap. The battery on the front derailleur was within a few mm of the tire, not what I would call acceptable.

[.RJ]

eTap & tire clearance is going to depend on chainstay length as well as tire size.... I could see it working for a large tire but you might have dump truck chainstays. Some folks seem to like that though, some 'garvel' bikes have longer CS than my old school geo 29er FS mtb.... :confused: 650's will make this easier.

Thanks for that. I am totally sold on the 1x setup for mountain biking. I've moved on from those 1x8 setup, currently have 2 bikes setup with Shimano 1x11 (W/ clutch & N/W of course) and couldn't be happier with them. I'm just not positive it will give me everything I want for my 'road' bike.

Depends on what you mean by 'road'. I probably do at least half my riding on my CX bike and go between cx/gravel/road tires on it. The gearing gaps on an 11-36 11-speed cassette arent great but tolerable for road riding.... but there's no compelling reason to go away from a double crank either.

[madsciencenow]

I did see an Open at my LBS the other week setup with 650x47 tires and 2x Etap. The battery on the front derailleur was within a few mm of the tire, not what I would call acceptable.


mm = miles imho. Unless you are planning on slogging through tons of mud and then maybe I’d think twice but even then the mud will likely just hit the battery and fall off.



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[David Tollefson]

Just seemed especially odd that the term showed up seemingly out of the blue in several places all at once.


The universe is trying to tell you something. Are you listening?

[ptourkin]

Pretty sure there will be an ETap clutch D out there fairly soon. Wasn't Nino riding one in the World Cup? Keep an eye on the CX bikes this season.

[BikeNY]

Pretty sure there will be an ETap clutch D out there fairly soon. Wasn't Nino riding one in the World Cup? Keep an eye on the CX bikes this season.

Yes, there were some MTB pros riding Eagle 1x12 Etap in the spring, and everyone seemed to think the release was imminent. That was many months ago, and no updates or sightings since. Once that's released, it remains to be seen whether it will work with road Etap shifters.

[R3awak3n]

I have not tried it. Also, as mentioned in my OP, I am running 27.5x2.35 tires. I am 99.99% sure it will not play nice with these tires.

I did see an Open at my LBS the other week setup with 650x47 tires and 2x Etap. The battery on the front derailleur was within a few mm of the tire, not what I would call acceptable.

yeah with 2.35 I bet its a no :)

[owly]

...Does anybody make a 10-46t 12 speed cassette, might be a good compromise.

E*Thirteen and Leonardi Racing do a 9-46.

[jtbadge]

E*Thirteen and Leonardi Racing do a 9-46.

And we all saw how well that cassette shifted on the pro tour this year.

[ptourkin]

And we all saw how well that cassette shifted on the pro tour this year.

That was a 3T. I'm not sure there's a takeaway from that. Aqua Blue was also using it on a chain ring bigger than what we'd run. Sunrace makes a 12 speed that starts at 11 and fits on a regular Shimano driver. I'm using the 11-50 and it shifts well. I was using the Sunrace 11-46 11 speed before that and it also shifted fine.

SRAM makes the same for an XD driver which has a 10.

[GOTHBROOKS]

what was the name of the company in the late 80s/early 90s that made the aftermarket springs that attached to the rear derailleur on your mtb to help eliminate chainslap? it literally looked like the spring to a screen door sticking off the back of your bike.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Pretty sure there will be an ETap clutch D out there fairly soon.

I would wait on this if you want useful eTap and 1x. Roadlink is a compromise at best. More likely a kludge.

Personally, 2x still wins for non-MTB. I live where rollers rule and a singe shift in the front and shift in the back is the move to make a lot of times. My bike has 430mm stays, 68mm BB shell, plenty of tire*/chainring clearance with my 42/28 crank and I'm pretty sure 50/34 would clear fine.

Honestly, I wish SRAM would develop an eTap FD for a sub-compact double before they come out with a 1x clutch RD, but seldom am I the target market for new tech.

*27.5 x 2.1" actual

[Marc40a]

I would wait on this if you want useful eTap and 1x. Roadlink is a compromise at best. More likely a kludge.

Personally, 2x still wins for non-MTB. I live where rollers rule and a singe shift in the front and shift in the back is the move to make a lot of times. My bike has 430mm stays, 68mm BB shell, plenty of tire/chainring clearance with my 42/28 crank and I'm pretty sure 50/34 would clear fine.

Honestly, I wish SRAM would develop an eTap FD for a sub-compact double before they come out with a 1x clutch RD, but seldom am I the target market for new tech.

Word

[zross312]

Nah, it wasn't the cassette - they used the standard SRAM ones. The chain drop issues were apparently caused by the 3T freehub bodies sticking. And that was just one of the issues with the bikes - the seatposts were prone to slipping as well.

And we all saw how well that cassette shifted on the pro tour this year.

[Hakkalugi]

Honestly, I wish SRAM would develop an eTap FD for a sub-compact double before they come out with a 1x clutch RD, but seldom am I the target market for new tech.

*27.5 x 2.1" actual

I’ll admit it’s a kludge, but I’m running 650b x 48 GKSK tires and 30/36-11/34 with eTap. The tire’s widest part clears the battery (but a Slant Six 2.0 does not, I guess MTB tires are much taller). My chainstays are 430mm. I don’t ride in mud, so the 3mm or so between the tire and battery are not an issue (yet).

Oddly, in order to get good shifting, I had to raise the FD much higher than the hashmark on it. When it was in the “correct” position it barely worked, but it’s fine in the incorrect way-too-high position. Haven’t had a shifting issue in 1500 miles. I’ve been hammering the bike on singletrack and rough dirt roads. That being said, as soon as I can get a clutch derailleur I’ll go to a wide range 1x. Probably.

[BikeNY]

I would wait on this if you want useful eTap and 1x. Roadlink is a compromise at best. More likely a kludge.

Personally, 2x still wins for non-MTB. I live where rollers rule and a singe shift in the front and shift in the back is the move to make a lot of times. My bike has 430mm stays, 68mm BB shell, plenty of tire*/chainring clearance with my 42/28 crank and I'm pretty sure 50/34 would clear fine.

Honestly, I wish SRAM would develop an eTap FD for a sub-compact double before they come out with a 1x clutch RD, but seldom am I the target market for new tech.

*27.5 x 2.1" actual

your setup sounds similar to mine with a 42/28 crank, although my tires are wider. Just to confirm, are you running Etap?

Your comment just got me thinking about something else with Etap 2x. When approaching/starting a hill, I'll often shift the front and back simultaneously, front from the big to the small ring and rear to a smaller cog so the jump isn't too extreme. I guess with Etap that's a 2 step process? Shift the front and then the back?

[BikeNY]

I’ll admit it’s a kludge, but I’m running 650b x 48 GKSK tires and 30/36-11/34 with eTap. The tire’s widest part clears the battery (but a Slant Six 2.0 does not, I guess MTB tires are much taller). My chainstays are 430mm. I don’t ride in mud, so the 3mm or so between the tire and battery are not an issue (yet).

Oddly, in order to get good shifting, I had to raise the FD much higher than the hashmark on it. When it was in the “correct” position it barely worked, but it’s fine in the incorrect way-too-high position. Haven’t had a shifting issue in 1500 miles. I’ve been hammering the bike on singletrack and rough dirt roads. That being said, as soon as I can get a clutch derailleur I’ll go to a wide range 1x. Probably.

Interesting. My chainstays are 450mm, so maybe there is a chance it would work? Anybody have an Etap front derailleur sitting around they want to send me for a test fit?:rolleyes:

[ColonelJLloyd]

your setup sounds similar to mine with a 42/28 crank, although my tires are wider. Just to confirm, are you running Etap?

Your comment just got me thinking about something else with Etap 2x. When approaching/starting a hill, I'll often shift the front and back simultaneously, front from the big to the small ring and rear to a smaller cog so the jump isn't too extreme. I guess with Etap that's a 2 step process? Shift the front and then the back?

Never used eTap so I would also like to know if the double shift is as fluid and quick as it is with Double Tap. I would think so, but I've never used eTap.

I' running Red HydroR shifters and XX drivetrain over 11 cogs. I would assume the current eTap FD design would be too close to my tire or wouldn't shift well.

[Hakkalugi]

Interesting. My chainstays are 450mm, so maybe there is a chance it would work? Anybody have an Etap front derailleur sitting around they want to send me for a test fit?:rolleyes:

PM me and I’ll send you some pics. I’d say that yes, the widest part of the tire will be well aft of the battery. I’d posit that just 5mm would give me the clearance to ride in mud.

[charliedid]

what was the name of the company in the late 80s/early 90s that made the aftermarket springs that attached to the rear derailleur on your mtb to help eliminate chainslap? it literally looked like the spring to a screen door sticking off the back of your bike.

Was it the Bassworm? For some reason this just popped into my head.

Look like a fishing lure.

:-)

[R3awak3n]

Never used eTap so I would also like to know if the double shift is as fluid and quick as it is with Double Tap. I would think so, but I've never used eTap.

I' running Red HydroR shifters and XX drivetrain over 11 cogs. I would assume the current eTap FD design would be too close to my tire or wouldn't shift well.

Its a 2 step as in does not happen exactly at the same time but if you shift back and then front one after the other its almost instantaneous.

So what I do is hit the back shifter a couple shifts down and then hit both paddles to move the front and its pretty quick, no problems... I guess some people may have the need to simultaneous shift but I never had the need and the way etap works is fine with me.

[tommyrod74]

I'm starting to feel like Rip Van Winkle: This is the third thread on a cycling forum that I've read today that uses the term "clutch derailleur"

...a term which before today I had never once heard in my life. Ever. Da hell? Did someone issue a papal bull over the weekend decreeing that we had to start using this new term?

Get me up to speed, please: what are we talking about when we say "clutch derailleur"? Is this just the new way to differentiate spring-loaded mechanical ders from their servo-driven electronic brethren without having to explicitly state that?

You haven't heard the term because you are plugged into only one discipline of the sport: road riding. They've been around MTB and CX for years now.

There's a lot of crossover in tech between disciplines now; this will only increase in the future.

[ptourkin]

Wireless XX1. At this stage it has to be close to release. He's been on it for a while.

https://bikerumor.com/2018/09/10/xc-world-champ-custom-prototype-equipped-scott-spark-rc-for-nino-schurters-7th-win/

https://bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Scott-Spark-RC-900-World-Champion-Nino-Schurter-Swiss-Edition_N1NO-custom-XC-Worlds-mountain-bike_SRAM-eTap-Eagle-Black-Box-drivetrain.jpg

[instantturtle]

Whatever happened to FSA’s WE wireless group?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BikeNY]

Wireless XX1. At this stage it has to be close to release. He's been on it for a while.

https://bikerumor.com/2018/09/10/xc-world-champ-custom-prototype-equipped-scott-spark-rc-for-nino-schurters-7th-win/

https://bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Scott-Spark-RC-900-World-Champion-Nino-Schurter-Swiss-Edition_N1NO-custom-XC-Worlds-mountain-bike_SRAM-eTap-Eagle-Black-Box-drivetrain.jpg

I've been following the developments of Eagle Etap, but I'm sick of waiting! just release it already! It sure looks production ready. Also, it remains to be seen if it will be compatible with road shifters.

[BikeNY]

So I found a deal on an Etap Wifli rear derailleur that I couldn't pass up...

So looks like Etap 1x11 is going to happen. I'll certainly be experimenting with the largest cassette cogs I can get away with. I have an 11 speed Shimano XT 11-42 cassette in the parts bin, so I'll start with that (& a Roadlink).

I'm also experimenting with not using the standard SRAM Etap shifters. I picked up a set of TRP Hylex discs not long ago, and just picked up a Blip Box on Ebay with a 20% off coupon. Just need to figure out how ling my blip wires need to be and the best places to put them.

It'll be a few weeks before this all happens, but I'll post up what I learn.

[R3awak3n]

you could always do something like this

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/sram-di2-playstation-shifting-52294/


I know the TRPs have space for di2 controls so mayb mod something like this.

[GOTHBROOKS]

Was it the Bassworm? For some reason this just popped into my head.

Look like a fishing lure.

:-)
no its not the bassworm. the bassworm went inline with the shift cable to try to fix something else. the thing im talking about was more inline with the rear der arm, and was a big spring that attached to it and something that came off the chainstay to eliminate chainslap. i cant remember what its called or who made it.

[BikeNY]

you could always do something like this

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/sram-di2-playstation-shifting-52294/


I know the TRPs have space for di2 controls so mayb mod something like this.

Similar idea, but more like this. I'll have to play with the location a bit to see what works best.

[R3awak3n]

Similar idea, but more like this. I'll have to play with the location a bit to see what works best.

oh cool, I did not know it had already been done. Neat.

[majl]

Like many others, I am hoping for SRAM to come out with a 1x12 drop-bar drivetrain that will shift the eagle 10-50 cassette. If eTap that would be cool too (I have eTap on one ebike and think it works great), but I would buy the mechanical group if that were available.

In the meatime, planning to build a 1x gravel bike around the Force 1 groupset, 40t or 42t ring and 10-42 XX1 cassette. Gravel bike will also be my back-up road bike, rain/winter bike.

I will forego the smaller jumps between gears I could get with a 2x for the simplicity of a 1x. I have used my cross bike as a gravel bike over the last 4 years with a 1x (40t and 10-spd 11-36 cassette) and have also been riding 1x MTB and it just works. And yes to clutch RDs in both cases.