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AngryScientist
08-31-2018, 11:11 AM
bought an inexpensive set of ebay wheels specifically to use as rain wheels and of course, they have issues.

what causes this anyway? this is a 32 spoke wheel, cxrays on NDS, double butted round spokes on DS. about a dozen cracked nipples on both DS and NDS spokes.

going to rebuild the wheel with brass locking nipples, but curious what caused these to crack, cracks look to start from the bottom up, which is not what i would expect??

sokyroadie
08-31-2018, 11:14 AM
Try Bag Balm ;)

ultraman6970
08-31-2018, 11:14 AM
Seen one or two but never seen that many nipples dead, interesting problem.

ps: when I saw the tittle I thought 1st to recommend something similar to what roadie is saying :D

David Kirk
08-31-2018, 11:26 AM
This is pretty common if the spoke wrench used is too large.

dave

CiclistiCliff
08-31-2018, 12:35 PM
Common with alloy nips.

Brass 4 Life

pritchet74
08-31-2018, 12:51 PM
My wife swears by this stuff.

https://www.honest.com/bath-and-body/organic-nipple-balm

93KgBike
08-31-2018, 01:14 PM
brass 4 life

+1

woodworker
08-31-2018, 01:21 PM
I've had this problem with a number of my wheels. I live by the Coast, in San Diego, and the humidity causes the aluminum to corrode against the threads of the dissimilar spoke material, crack, and eventually fall apart. I'd talk to a good wheelbuilder who may know the different aluminum alloys used in various nipple brands, and which may be more corrosion resistant (if it's not over-tightening). My understanding is that brass is less susceptible to this problem.

ColonelJLloyd
08-31-2018, 01:27 PM
Common with alloy nips.

Brass 4 Life

Sure. Or, you know. . . do it right. I used to shun aluminum nipples, but I use them where they make sense now.

I recently built my first wheelset with Sapim double square and DT Squorx nipples with this 3.2mm driver (https://www.ebay.com/i/283047455173?chn=ps) and the DT tool (https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/dt-swiss-torx-t-handle-nipple-wrench-for-squorx-nipples?gclid=CjwKCAjwzqPcBRAnEiwAzKRgS3q1p--mX3OBSXbEpGe40RC_0kESHAOxNHLRsYzJWeVs2uRTQFU69hoCC TcQAvD_BwE). I like this method and will be doing it this way going forward.

shoota
08-31-2018, 03:12 PM
Common with alloy nips.

Brass 4 Life

This. Once alloy nipples start breaking it's over. Time to rebuild with brass.

johnniecakes
08-31-2018, 05:30 PM
Does anyone know the weight difference between alloy and brass nipples. Maybe 2 -3 grams? Seems to like a lot of potential problems for a minimal weight difference. I wonder how many guys with alloy nipples have and extra 20-40 mm of valve stem that would add weight, and unbalanced at that.

weiwentg
08-31-2018, 05:55 PM
Does anyone know the weight difference between alloy and brass nipples. Maybe 2 -3 grams? Seems to like a lot of potential problems for a minimal weight difference. I wonder how many guys with alloy nipples have and extra 20-40 mm of valve stem that would add weight, and unbalanced at that.

Per November Bicycles, 30g in a 20/24 wheelset (https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/blog/spoke-nipples-alloy-versus-brass), and more in a 32h wheelset. So, it's not nothing.

But, of course, weight matters less than we all think.

Personally, the additional reliability is worth it to me. I do ride sometimes when it's wet out, and I am not able/willing to keep my wheels consistently clean. So brass nipples it is. I can live with 30g.

CiclistiCliff
08-31-2018, 09:06 PM
Sure. Or, you know. . . do it right. I used to shun aluminum nipples, but I use them where they make sense now.

I recently built my first wheelset with Sapim double square and DT Squorx nipples with this 3.2mm driver (https://www.ebay.com/i/283047455173?chn=ps) and the DT tool (https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/dt-swiss-torx-t-handle-nipple-wrench-for-squorx-nipples?gclid=CjwKCAjwzqPcBRAnEiwAzKRgS3q1p--mX3OBSXbEpGe40RC_0kESHAOxNHLRsYzJWeVs2uRTQFU69hoCC TcQAvD_BwE). I like this method and will be doing it this way going forward.

You seem to troll quite a bit, particularly my posts.

Fact: Aluminum nipples have a tendency to fail much sooner than brass. The amount of wheels I’ve rebuilt with brass nipples after finding multiple cracked or severly corroded aluminum nipples is rather disappointing. Roval, Ibis,DT Swiss along with a handful of custom builds. Low spoke count should always be brass, in my opinion. If a customer wants a reliable wheel, use brass. There’s a reason why Enve uses brass, Mavic uses brass on Aksiums and a handful of other OEM builders use brass.

And yes, the squorx and square drive stuff is great, but they will crack in 4-5 years.

jtbadge
08-31-2018, 09:09 PM
You seem to troll quite a bit, particularly my posts.

Fact: Aluminum nipples have a tendency to fail much sooner than brass. The amount of wheels I’ve rebuilt with brass nipples after finding multiple cracked or severly corroded aluminum nipples is rather disappointing. Roval, Ibis,DT Swiss along with a handful of custom builds. Low spoke count should always be brass, in my opinion. If a customer wants a reliable wheel, use brass. There’s a reason why Enve uses brass, Mavic uses brass on Aksiums and a handful of other OEM builders use brass.

And yes, the squorx and square drive stuff is great, but they will crack in 4-5 years.

Serious question, don't take this as trolling: if a rim is going to wear out from brake use after a few years of heavy use, does it make a difference? (Obviously this doesn't apply to disc brake wheels)

CiclistiCliff
08-31-2018, 09:13 PM
Serious question, don't take this as trolling: if a rim is going to wear out from brake use after a few years of heavy use, does it make a difference? (Obviously this doesn't apply to disc brake wheels)

No, but rims last much longer than a couple years in dry climates. I have customers with well over 3 million feet of descent/30,000 miles on Fulcrum/Campy wheels and the rims are just starting to show wear that warrants replacement in the next year.

Note:Oversized aluminum nipples such as Mavic/Fulcrum/Campy are not the same as a regular nipple.


Now factor in disc brakes. They should be ‘forever wheels’ unless dented or crashed.

ergott
08-31-2018, 09:31 PM
This is pretty common if the spoke wrench used is too large.



dave



Dave nailed it first. That clearly looks like a wrench that isn’t fitted to the nipple size. Probably only a 3 sided wrench too.

I’m of the opinion that aluminium works if prepped with care. Brass needs prep too so it doesn’t add time/labor to the build. I default to aluminium unless a customer prefers brass.

My experience hasn’t shown that aluminium nipples will fail in 4-5 years.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

steelbikerider
08-31-2018, 09:35 PM
I had a similar problem on a rear wheel except only on the NDS. Nipples had the same type crack. I was told on another forum that the problem was nipple fatigue due to a lack of tension. I rebuilt the wheels with new nipples and a couple of extra turns on each spoke and no more problems. I always use
al nipples btw and now use a spoke tension gauge.

CiclistiCliff
08-31-2018, 09:36 PM
Ergott, the aluminum nipple failures I’ve seen in 4-5 are generally factory prebuilts on mountain bikes.

Proper prep does wonders for a wheel

ColonelJLloyd
08-31-2018, 10:44 PM
You seem to troll quite a bit, particularly my posts.

I genuinely don't understand how you came to either of those conclusions. What I intended to imply by "do it right" is to properly prep the spokes and nipples and to use the correct tool for the job. It stands to reason the wheel in the OP wasn't done right and/or maybe used nipples of unknown quality. It was not a personal jab at you. Genuinely sorry to have offended, it was not my intent.

dddd
09-01-2018, 01:17 AM
Aluminum used in regular-sized spoke nipples needs to be high-strength to withstand wrenching torque, so that means 7000-series alloy which tends to degrade and lose strength from exposure in a relatively short time.

The pictured nipple shows corrosion to each side of the crack, which suggests that the environment is corrosive enough to have shortened their life.

oldpotatoe
09-01-2018, 07:09 AM
This is pretty common if the spoke wrench used is too large.

dave

I was going to mention the same thing altho I'm surprised some weren't just rounded or otherwise goobered up. I know some swear by aluminum nipples but I just don't see the point..answers no question, solves no problem with regards to just chrome plated brass nipples.

oldpotatoe
09-01-2018, 07:11 AM
You seem to troll quite a bit, particularly my posts.

Fact: Aluminum nipples have a tendency to fail much sooner than brass. The amount of wheels I’ve rebuilt with brass nipples after finding multiple cracked or severly corroded aluminum nipples is rather disappointing. Roval, Ibis,DT Swiss along with a handful of custom builds. Low spoke count should always be brass, in my opinion. If a customer wants a reliable wheel, use brass. There’s a reason why Enve uses brass, Mavic uses brass on Aksiums and a handful of other OEM builders use brass.

And yes, the squorx and square drive stuff is great, but they will crack in 4-5 years.

For DT rims that spec 'squorx', I either find brass squorx or just use brass Sapim SecureLock..just use the nipple washer. I gots a YUGE bag or squorx aluminum nipps...anybody want them? For shipping.