Mountain bikes?

[shinomaster]

Yes you heard me. I'm toying with the idea of getting a race mountain bike for next summer. I may try racing short track or xcountry. Racing cross is fun and I think I would like to race a bit more and in nicer weather. It would prepare me for cross too.
I still have my trek 950 lugged steel bike from 1990...should I just get a new kit and race that? It doesn't have a shock....
I got the new cannondale catalogue and I honestly can't figure out what all the bikes are for.. Things have changed a lot in 15 years. I just want a xcountry bike ..It will have to be stock and inexpensive. Any recommendations?

[Ginger]

Turn your full rigid into a single speed (not fixed) and show up at the XC races.
...People will think you're hard core.
A full rigid mtb will teach you a lot about picking your line and handling a bike too. But don’t wander out on the first race day and try it out...you’ll get labeled a roadie pretty quickly.

[davids]

I got the new cannondale catalogue and I honestly can't figure out what all the bikes are for.. Things have changed a lot in 15 years. I just want a xcountry bike ..It will have to be stock and inexpensive. Any recommendations?
You almost certainly want dual suspension, atmo. A stiff, relatively-short-travel bike (3-4" on each end) will be faster and more comfortable than a rigid or hard-tail.

[Ginger]

You almost certainly want dual suspension, atmo. A stiff, relatively-short-travel bike (3-4" on each end) will be faster and more comfortable than a rigid or hard-tail.

This is all true. FS are also more forgiving in a way. You also can ride over more stuff without being so careful about picking your line. And, you can keep your rear in the saddle on a FS so you won't have to relearn the whole rigid mtb body english thing. On the negative side, you can go faster without really learning much...so you can crash bigger quicker.

(C'mon...I wanted to provide some entertainment for the Portland mtb racers!)

Johnny,
Your 1990 is possibly not corrected for suspension. And if it is, it's only corrected for 65-85mm of front suspension. So just throwing a modern fork on the thing won't work. If you went that route, you would be raising the front end and you would throw off the geo of the bike, and the bike handling, say...during climbing would be off. So you're either looking at finding an older fork that has the correct suspension (OH, lookie, Ginger happens to have this Sid Air off the Fat that she had adjusted for that shorter travel...hmmmm) or buying a new bike.

[Mud]

A Fully is expensive to buy and expensive to maintain regardless of whether you race. Grinding up chains, cogs and rings in eastern mud (no pun intended) or Moab dust it is expensive.

If you are racing crits and you are not sposored you would not be riding a $5000 roadbike (at least I won't). So the idea of a steel frame SS is a good one. I just discovered SS MBing and have a Bianchi WUSS. Not expensive as MBs go, light enought to race (stock is under 25#) and is alot of fun.

I don't race but my friends who do have gone to SS. Less mechanicals and less to think about. Just a thought but I do look forward to Mondays, my MB day. :banana:

[GoJavs]

Look on ebay, there are dozens of potential candidates that show up daily...and cheap too...Used MTBs have no been affected yet (like classic steel) by the Kid-fixie craze...

[theprep]

You said Race Bike correct? Then IMHO get a hardtail with an 80/100 mm travel fork and a full shimano LX/XT kit. The SRAM twist shifters work great as well.

I know if you pick up a magazine, all you will see is FS bikes, but, if you want to go fast, get a hardtail.

Skip the disk brakes too, weaker wheels, heavier, more expensive, extra complexity, rotor drag, sqeally. V-Brakes are strong enough if you don't downhill race. If mud is a concern, go for ceramic coated rims.

Now...my opinions and experience are based on the following:
-39 years old and do about 500 MTB miles/year
-my MTB rides average only 8-13 mph depending on the trail
-our terrain here is almost 100% tight, twisty single track with no fireroads
-any climbing is short and steep, lasting 2 minutes tops.
-any advice I have ever received from a MTB magazine has NOT worked out. I think they just climb fire roads for an hour and then bomb down the other side.
-I got a Serotta Ti-Max so I am biased

Joe

[coylifut]

How tall are you?

[zap]

Much depends on the terrain you will ride/race on.

If you want to go as fast as you can on a wider variety of terrain, a xc full suspension bike is the way to go.

The Cannondale Scalpel is a good place to start. No pivots to worry about. But there is that Lefty. A better choice might be an entry level Trek Fuel. I think the '07 models added another pivot above the rear stay. Santa Cruz Superlight is another great design.

If you like going fast on tight single track, a steeper ha that come with most race xc bikes will work well. V brakes with ceramic rims work well in most situations.

If you ride in really rough terrain and like to get some air, then a mtb with a beefier frame and more travel will work best.

[scrooge]

get a 29er. It's the new grey.

[Neves]

All good answers, but isn't the terrian on short track courses very tame. I think I would base the type of mountain bike I ride based on the type of trails I ride and train on. I live in central Ohio and for most of the riding I do a hardtail has been the ticket for me. But one of the closes trails to me just beats the snot out of my back and usually when I'm finished riding there I wish I had a short travel fully.

I also think your equipment choice should be based on what and where you usually ride in. I love my disc brakes and will not be switching back to canties on my mountain bike. They can be a total pain in the arse, but I feel that I have more control.

I don't know what your buget is but the Trek 8500 and 8000 are nice looking bikes this year and the Cannondale Caffeine series looks good.

I personally ride a Gary Fisher Paragon, but i would love to throw a leg over the Cannondale Caffeine 29'er.

[crossjunkee]

Moots YBB (my personal choice, and perfect for short track), or Yeti AS-R (if forced to ride a full suspension).

[DRZRM]

Yeah, I was going to stay out of this, but I will second crossjunky's advice. The Moots YBB is as close to the perfect MTB as I've ridden. I still sometimes miss my Wicked Fat, and if the right sized Yo Eddie came along (they come around from time to time on ebay for a reasonable price) I'd get a second MTB, but if you can only have one, the Moots takes the edge off with a bit of rear travel, but is as light and fast as any hard tail. I've just never come aroung to full suspention.

Of course they are not cheap, even used, so it does not really answer your query, but...you just might decide you like racing in the summer.

[Neves]

if money wasn't an issue, a moots would be in my stable...but it is so i have to rock what i have.

[billrick]

Since your other thread seems to be dying, I'll repeat myself . . . you owe it to yoursef to try some adult-sized wheels. The 29er thing is not a fad. I have sold off all my 26 inch mountain bikes.

Keep watching CN for the updates to this test:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/features/29invs26inpt2

:)

[crossjunkee]

They YBB is the best mountain bike I've ever owned, I've owned a bunch. Perfect for 24hour events, it helps take the edge off. I'd really like to ride a Moots 29er YBB, just to compare. But I think for tight single track, the 29er would be at a significant disadvantage. But I can't say for sure.

Who really wants to deal with the maintenance of a full suspension rig with disc brakes? Especially in the NW (I think you're in the NW Shino?). Heck, I can barely keep up with cleaning my chain.

DRZRM, I'd love to get my hands on a classic hardtail too.

[Richard]

If you fit it, I have a 17" Odile, all XT, Marzocchi fork, in very good shape that I am planning to sell.

[Archibald]

Dual suspension is for sissies with no skills.

This is a MTB for real men & women:

:banana: :banana: :banana:

[Ginger]

Dual suspension is for sissies with no skills.


OH C'mon. I said that in a nice way...you could too. ;)

I don't think Shino needs a free ride rig for XC. Pretty bike though, in it's own elephant trials bike sort of way. It's nice to see something new come out of Canada.

That crew makes me happy. Some of their practices make so much sense on a mtb it's silly: For example, from their site:
"We use M8 bolts for all of our shock mounting hardware on our heavier duty frames, again from a strength perspective. And, wherever possible, we use commonly available metric fasteners so that they are easily replaced if damaged or lost."

Commonly available...wow...someone who finally recognizes that if you ride your mtb on the trails, sooner or later a bolt is going to fall off of it no matter how much preventive maintenance you do...and having your favorite bike sit for 2 weeks waiting for a bolt from the OEM just sucks. I know. I've done it before.

[spiderlake]

SS'ers and 29'ers are all the rage here in MI. The Singler Speeders are nuts and FAST! I get passed by them all the time.

I went from hard tail to full suspension this year and do all X-country riding. I can say, without question, that my riding improved in multiple ways. Faster, longer, better handling, etc.....

Adam Craig (Giant Pro) won Iceman last year on a full suspension rig (Giant Anthem) but he could have easily ridden a hard tail and kicked everyone's butt.

[DfCas]

I've had rigid,hardtail,full suspension in both 26 and 29.I would choose a 29 hardtail with a thudbuster seatpost and Avid BB7 disc brakes.They are mailtenance free,work in ice,don't eat rims.

29 brings more comfort,better traction,and endo resistance and blows 26" bikes away.

I ride in rocky/rooty West Virginia singletrack,mostly in the winter. Dual suspension brings more problems than it solves.IMHO.

[Archibald]

OH C'mon. I said that in a nice way...you could too. ;)

I don't think Shino needs a free ride rig for XC. Pretty bike though, in it's own elephant trials bike sort of way. It's nice to see something new come out of Canada.
Wait a minute, don't the :banana:'s mean you can say anything you want and it's all OK? ****e!

This relative of mine doesn't ride full suspension either:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17424&stc=1

[shinomaster]

I'm 5'10" tall and ride about a 56ct road bike with oh....a 56-58 top tube???
When I used to ride off road when I was a kid I was always crashing....so suspension would be good for me. The cannondales look pretty cool... What about the Giant Anthem? My cousin is a Giant dealer... :rolleyes:

[davids]

Sorry, I stick with my FS recommendation. I'm so hardcore that your criticism rolls off my back...

Get a cheap Fisher or Specialized FS for $1200-$1500. You'll be fast and comfortable.

[Ginger]

Shino,
For years I have recommended Giants to people. They are solid bikes with a decent spec at each price point. Good value for the dollar. If you just want to go out and ride...get a fs (although that isn't going to fix your crashing problem), you're in muck country, get disc brakes...29'rs add a rotating weight penalty. If you do go 29'r, watch your toes. A mtb is the one place I don't tolerate toe overlap (and yeah...I've seen it on the smaller sizes.)
Ginger

[timto]

Findings...

I did a multi day xc marathon style MTB race this summer on a Santa Cruz Blur - turns out that the mix was 40% single track/60% atv trail and fire road. In retrospect I think a rigid 29'r with a thud buster as suggested by DfCas is the ideal TransRockies bike. That's what I'll bring next time because things were so technically tame.

I live in the Canadian rockies and have some very technical riding out my way where I feel the full susp was a NECESSITY but for tame trails I still prefer the hardtail ride.

My point being? Buy for the riding you'll do most often. The scarier and harrier I think full susp adds heaps of benefit. The more technically tame the riding - those benefits diminish.

Also a note on discs - if you are riding/racing where it is wet & muddy and technical the discs are important - no clogging brake lines (with hydraulic) and they stop in the wet v-nice compared to a rim that's slick with mud and goo. On very technical stuff my brakes have saved me on more than one occasion where vbrakes just wouldn't have done it. I supported a buddy during a 24 hour solo campain - he had vbrakes that got clogged up good (well it was bad) and that was enough to convince me of the benefits of discs long ago. But yeah - depends on the riding you'll do. Mebbe you won't ride in those conditions?

JMO, FWIW

timto

[gdw]

Good advice. I'd add that you should also consider weight in your decision if you are purchasing the bike for racing. Dics brakes are great but add at least a pound to the overall weight of the bike unless you are willing to spend big bucks for the top end models and wheels. Full suspension also comes with a weight penalty. The average FS racing frame is around two pounds heavier than you typical hardtail. Two to three pounds of extra weight might be costly on a short track coarse and will definitely be a liability if you graduate to non-technical marathons and ultras.

[shinomaster]

Honestly I always thought that racing xcountry on a full suspension bike seemed silly. I think a front should would be nice...I like the idea of a light bike, as I'm more of a climber/ spinner up the hills. But everyone pro races full suspension, so they must be better right?

[Neves]

WOW, i must be a die'ing breed. Gaint only offers a hardtail in a frameset. Gaints has always been a great deals, plus you gotta support the family.

Shinomaster, did I read a not so pleseant mountain bike trip you did not so long ago. I can't remember where you were. Was it Danial Boone national park in Kentucky.

[spiderlake]

The Anthem is bad @$$! It was a bit too "twitchy" for me and kinda aggressive for my style of riding so I went with the Trance instead. I like comfort and don't mind sacrificing a bit of speed in the process. The Anthem is all about racing and worthy of consideration, IMHO.

I'm 5'10" tall and ride about a 56ct road bike with oh....a 56-58 top tube???
When I used to ride off road when I was a kid I was always crashing....so suspension would be good for me. The cannondales look pretty cool... What about the Giant Anthem? My cousin is a Giant dealer... :rolleyes:

[shinomaster]

WOW, i must be a die'ing breed. Gaint only offers a hardtail in a frameset. Gaints has always been a great deals, plus you gotta support the family.

Shinomaster, did I read a not so pleseant mountain bike trip you did not so long ago. I can't remember where you were. Was it Danial Boone national park in Kentucky.

No you must have me confused with another person! I havent been on a mountain bike in years..

[Ginger]

Honestly I always thought that racing xcountry on a full suspension bike seemed silly. I think a front should would be nice...I like the idea of a light bike, as I'm more of a climber/ spinner up the hills. But everyone pro races full suspension, so they must be better right?

Ah there now...that's something that's common between road and trail. Pros race what they're given to race. :)

[weatherman]

They YBB is the best mountain bike I've ever owned, I've owned a bunch. Perfect for 24hour events, it helps take the edge off. I'd really like to ride a Moots 29er YBB, just to compare. But I think for tight single track, the 29er would be at a significant disadvantage. But I can't say for sure.

............

The YBB (29er version) (aka MootoX YBB) is just the ticket! I've owned one for nearly 2 years now and it is my race bike (at least when I'm not riding/racing my hardtail MootoX 29er singlespeed). The YBB takes just enough edge off to help in longer races like 12/24 endurance events. For short/sprint type races (anything less than say 20 miles) probably going to be faster on a hardtail though. Big wheels are good, real good though! And no, once you adjust, they aren't going to slow you down in the tight stuff. Not to mention when the going gets rough, you will be amazed at how easily the big wheels roll through/over stuff. Momentum is your friend and it is a lot easier to preserve it with the big wheels.

[chrisroph]

For just riding I love my specialized fs. I can't believe its comfort and efficiency. For racing, it looks like ht's are still the way to go.

[coylifut]

I'm 5'10" tall and ride about a 56ct road bike with oh....a 56-58 top tube???
When I used to ride off road when I was a kid I was always crashing....so suspension would be good for me. The cannondales look pretty cool... What about the Giant Anthem? My cousin is a Giant dealer... :rolleyes:

the Giants are really nice.

I have a MTB in my garage that I intend to "ride more" every year. Last year I rode it exactly once in the race at Reheers. You can borrow it anytime you want. There, now you don't have to buy one. I'm one inch taller than you.

[coylifut]

Honestly I always thought that racing xcountry on a full suspension bike seemed silly. I think a front should would be nice...I like the idea of a light bike, as I'm more of a climber/ spinner up the hills. But everyone pro races full suspension, so they must be better right?

that french world champion guy Julien Absalon (sp?) seems to fine on his Bianchi HT.

[Archibald]

Jeezus! You guys are killing me here!

I would rather scrub my nipples off with a rusty SOS pad or eat rancid tuna salad out of Doodle's* doggie dish than ride some of the lame POS's you guys are recommending. Don't you guys have Serotta road bikes?!

Moots: Yes!

Turner: Yes!

IF: Yes!

Foes: Yes!

Giant? Whaaaa?

What's next, Pacific?

:crap:

:banana:

*Atmo's dog

[aLexis]

My (not unbiased) vote goes for the 29er. It is really hard to pick one bike that is the best for every trail or type of riding, but a ti 29er hardtail with tubless tires comes pretty close. I haven't ridden the Moots YBB, but I bet it is awesome.
When I take a bike out with little wheels these days, it feels awkward, slower and decidedly uncool. :cool:

[stevep]

dont badmouth giant.
they are one of the best development, engineering companies in an industry dominated by sham marketing companies that dont develop shiite or if they do the first 4 years they are testing them on unassuming customers.
giant makes great stuff for reasonable money.
way, way better than a lot of the junk out there.
ps its a real company with the name on the factory door
no, i have nothing to do with giant bicycles in business, i sell a competitive product.

[Archibald]

dont badmouth giant.
First, make sure your sense of humor is intact. :D

they are one of the best development, engineering companies in an industry dominated by sham marketing companies that dont develop shiite or if they do the first 4 years they are testing them on unassuming customers.
Second, tell that to anyone who bought an AC-1. Poorly developed, copycat design, broke constantly.

But hey, it's still a party! :banana:

[manet]

Doodle's*









*Atmo's dog


i've been lied to

[stevep]

i dont know what an ac-1 even is...
but i stand by my earlier comments.
the warehouse full of broken c-dale and spec frames would dwarf the number of broken giant frames.

[Archibald]

i dont know what an ac-1 even is...
but i stand by my earlier comments.
the warehouse full of broken c-dale and spec frames would dwarf the number of broken giant frames.
http://www.feedthehabit.com/photos/album40/giant_ac1.jpg

[stevep]

ok, get it.
all full suspension bikes break....

[Grant McLean]

ok, get it.
all full suspension bikes break....

only if you ride them.

:)

My funnest mtb ever was a '91 FatChance Yo!Eddy with a custom salsa stem
(matching purple of course)

g

[Archibald]

i've been lied to
Baby talk. As in, "does my Doodles doggie junkie monkey want his little doggie dish filled?"

Sickening. ;)

[shanerpvt]

Jeezus! You guys are killing me here!

I would rather scrub my nipples off with a rusty SOS pad or eat rancid tuna salad out of Doodle's* doggie dish than ride some of the lame POS's you guys are recommending. Don't you guys have Serotta road bikes?!

Moots: Yes!

Turner: Yes!

IF: Yes!

Foes: Yes!

Giant? Whaaaa?

What's next, Pacific?

:crap:

:banana:

*Atmo's dog


YETI: YEA!

[shanerpvt]

Yes you heard me. I'm toying with the idea of getting a race mountain bike for next summer. I may try racing short track or xcountry. Racing cross is fun and I think I would like to race a bit more and in nicer weather. It would prepare me for cross too.
I still have my trek 950 lugged steel bike from 1990...should I just get a new kit and race that? It doesn't have a shock....
I got the new cannondale catalogue and I honestly can't figure out what all the bikes are for.. Things have changed a lot in 15 years. I just want a xcountry bike ..It will have to be stock and inexpensive. Any recommendations?

What do you want for the lugged rigid? A lugged steel SS is in my future.

[Ken Robb]

I confess that I haven't reaqd all of these responses but Shino asked for an inexpensive but race-worthy bike so I don't think Moots, etc. would qualify though I love my YBB.

Around SD there are big discounts on many decent 2006 model Treks and other good mass-produced lines. If the terrain is bumpy at all I can make better time and be more in control with my full suspension xc bike than any hard tail or even the YBB. More skilled riders than I don't need as much help from rear suspension as I do. While some riders claim that hard tails climb better because they don't bob I have problems spinning out the rear wheel climbing bumpy trails on one of them. My rear suspension helps me maintain rear wheel traction.

I've got a 2001 Marin Rift Zone that works ok for me. At 25 pounds ready to ride the weight's not bad.

[gdw]

This is the longest thread on mountain biking that I can remember on this forum. Amazing. Normally these threads die off after a few posts or are hijacked.

[shinomaster]

Archibaldio...I'd love a moots but I need an affordable bike, made in Taiwan! I can usually get a deal on Fuji, Giant, KHS, and a few others at my friends shop. I can also get EURO Stuff but it costs too much..

I'd like an old cannondale hard tail with a headshock in SAECO red!

MAybe I'll just "BORROW" Coylifuts bike..

Hey Chrisroph I need your adress!!

[crossjunkee]

Fine, if he wants to stay cheap, I think a better choice than Giant would be Jamis.

I'm going to have to demo a Moots 29er next time there demo fleet is on the move.

[MassBiker]

Are there any other manufacturers who use similar technology to the YYB soft tail?
:beer:

[zap]

http://www.castellanodesigns.com/

[gdw]

KHS, Litespeed, Serotta, Dean, DeKerfe, Ibis, and Ritchey have all marketed soft-tales at one point or another.

[Kane]

[QUOTE=Ken Robb]I confess that I haven't reaqd all of these responses but Shino asked for an inexpensive but race-worthy bike so I don't think Moots, etc. would qualify though I love my YBB.

I would look for a Santa Cruz Superlight. If you really want to save some money look for a used one. They ride extremely well especially on a racing course or anything short of a cliff. Unlike most suspension designs they have very durable pivots. It is a simple design that is very light when built up with decent parts.

Cheers,

Kane

[Spicoli]

SHINO, CHECK OUT BIKESDIRECT.COM AND PICK UP WHATEVER MOTOBECANE FITS IN YOUR PRICE RANGE. THEY ARE BIZZARO CHEAP AND WORK JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN ANYTHING OUT THERE. YOU CAN PULL THIS OFF FOR LESS THAN A GRAND AND HAVE LIGHT VERY RACE WORTHY BIKE THAT IF YOU PUT ANY PRO MOTOR ON, HE WOULD NOT GO ANY SLOWER. I HAVE THERE F/S FANTOM FRAME AND THE THING CLIMBS LIKE A TRACTOR, TURN THE PEDALS AND THE TRACTION IS UNREAL. MINES A LITTLE PORKY BUT ITS NOT THE FRAME DOING THAT, ITS THE PARTS I HUNG ON IT. THERE HARDTAILS ARE ACTUALLY VERY RACE SPECIFIC WHEN YOU GET TO THERE LX/XT RANGE, ONE GREAT WAY TO GO IMHO.
IF I WERE TO RACE TOMMORROW IT WOULD BE A STEEL HARDTAIL W/V-BRAKES AND AS LIGHT AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE (INDY FAB. I JUST SWAPPED ON THE FORUM IS MY NEW GO FAST) I ALSO TRIED THE 29er THING AND THOUGHT IS WAS VERY COOL AND DIFFERENT BUT WATCH YOUR TERRAIN, IT MAY NOT WORK FOR SOME PEOPLE, I THOUGHT AS A RACE BIKE THEY HANDLE A LITTLE SLOW AND AS SOMEONE MENTIONED, THE ROTATIONAL WEIGHT BIG WHEEL THING. SUPER FUN BUT RACE BIKE, NOT FOR ME. BUT WHO THE HECK AM I, JUST ANOTHER PROBABLY USELESS OPINION WITH THE REST. GET WHAT YOU PICTURE YOURSELF GOING FAST ON BECAUSE THATS YOU WILL BELIEVE IN AND SECOND GUESSING WILL SLOW YOU YOU DOWN MOTIVATIONALLY? MY OPINION BRUUDDA!

GOOD LUCK,JEFF