paul clamper vs hydraulic db

[sfghbiker]

hello all, I am converting my ibis silk ti to disks. contemplating some pauls
clamper disk brakes. will be using the bike in a cross country flatbar setup so could easily use hydraulic disk brakes. anyone have thoughts about the clampers? performance relative to contemporary disks. my only reason for using them would be vanity and I love their stuff.

[saab2000]

I can’t comment on the Paul brakes, but I will opine that performance should always trump (I hate this word in 2018, but in this context it’s an appropriate word) vanity.

Performance > Vanity if you’re going to actually ride the bike.

[rst72]

Performance > Vanity if you’re going to actually ride the bike.

Agree.

Klampers perform extremely well. They are very smooth, quiet and powerful with great modulation.

[R3awak3n]

Disclaimer that I have never used Paul discs. I have heard they are actually pretty amazing as far as cable discs go.

I have used BB7 (like it or not, similar to Paul, 1 piston brakes), spyres (some people here love them, I hate them (was using with campy), shimano hydraulic and now have campy hydraulic.

I am blown away with campy hydro, really its amazing. Modulation is amazing, the lever return is perfect, brake power amazing. I never thought I would say this but its that good and I would consider buying my next road bike with discs because I enjoyed it so much on the 200 miles I put on it.

Shimano hydraulic was good too but I think the shop did not set it up as good as it could be because I like my campy 100x better (I set that up :banana: and its perfect.... I am a newb but spent like 4 hours doing it lol).

As far as the Pauls, I can't comment but they are probably nice, I actually thought BB7s were fine and lets say the Pauls are better than the BB7s like everyone says they are. They still would come nowhere close to hydro setup (at least the one I have). They are also so expensive that to me its a no brainer, I think you would be silly to go with a cable disc brake for that price UNLESS you have a couplered/travel bike then it makes sense. There are amazing deals on shim hydro out there and I got a crazy deal on my campy hydro as well.

I know I sound like a fanboy and everyone was asking me how my OPEN performed but all I could talk about was how much I loved the campy Disc Brakes

[sfghbiker]

yes all the above comments are totally correct. I have XTR race calipers to dura ace DI2 levers on my cross bike and they work ridiculously well. The last cable disks I had were BB7s and they werent even close. Maybe I'll look at some Hopes if I want some bling.

[bikinchris]

If you are going flat bar, get a set of Magura Trail Carbon brakes. Yeah, it's really overkill, but having too much brakes is a problem I could deal with.

[vqdriver]

hydro
given the choice, there's no reason not too, not even vanity.

[KonaSS]

Agree - I would choose any major brand hydro brake over mechanical except for some very rare use-cases. I.E. - my part drawer townie bike.

[weaponsgrade]

If you've got the option to easily go hydro, I'd go hydro. I went with Spyres because I wanted to reuse my existing parts - including Campy Ergos. The Spyres required a little extra work because of the Campy cable pull. They perform fine, but hydro (which I have on my mtn bike) is much nicer. I love Paul stuff too and looked into the Klampers. The general consensus seemed that they worked great (not hydro great), but were very expensive. For me, it was hard to justify that extra cost.

[Pinned]

Even previous generations of hydro discs, which we'd consider to be pretty bad by modern standards, are leaps and bounds better than a cable actuated disc. Modern hydro discs are awesome, and with an XC bike you have so many options. Shimano and Magura have always worked well for me.

[Billybob62]

If you've got the option to easily go hydro, I'd go hydro. I went with Spyres because I wanted to reuse my existing parts - including Campy Ergos. The Spyres required a little extra work because of the Campy cable pull. They perform fine, but hydro (which I have on my mtn bike) is much nicer. I love Paul stuff too and looked into the Klampers. The general consensus seemed that they worked great (not hydro great), but were very expensive. For me, it was hard to justify that extra cost.

+1 to all the above however instead of Spyres I installed Yokozuna cable/hydro brake due to potential interference problem with the Spyres (wide dynohub).

If interested, a good review is here: https://road.cc/content/review/225573-yokozuna-motoko-disc-brake

[SlowPokePete]

I've got a set of Klampers on my Ahearne...no complaints.

Hydros are better.

But not that much.

SPP

[R3awak3n]

I am actually surprised that for once, everyone on paceline (well at least that commented so far) has agreed on something. :eek:

[tuscanyswe]

I am actually surprised that for once, everyone on paceline (well at least that commented so far) has agreed on something. :eek:

Ha yeah that is pretty rare .)

[donevwil]

If you want the best brakes, go hydro. If you want very good cable actuated with bling factor, you might look at Juin Tech hybrid calipers, they make the Yokozuna Motokos (from what I understand) which I am very happy with (relative to BB7s) and come in many colors. They have road and MTB pull variants.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/sBIAAOSw8GtZOmNH/s-l500.jpg

[d_douglas]

I've got a set of Klampers on my Ahearne...no complaints.

Hydros are better.

But not that much.

SPP

That’s it right there. I’ve never owned Paul brakes and while I am sure they’re beautifully made, they won’t compete with hydro brakes.

I use Shimano brakes on my two MTBs - they’re boring but they’re the industry standard for a reason. I have SLX and XTR and couldn’t tell the difference- I’d personally buy SLX if I bought a new group today...

[MaraudingWalrus]

I am actually surprised that for once, everyone on paceline (well at least that commented so far) has agreed on something. :eek:

and it's even about the "d" word

[R3awak3n]

and it's even about the "d" word

I know. Times are aaaaaa changing

[jambee]

I own both on two different bikes.

I love the Paul's. They stop like nobody's business. The drawback of these brakes is the cost. They are insanely expensive.

I also have a bike with Campy Hydros. Love how they stop and modulate. They are not cheap especially if you need to get the Hope callipers as I did.

The bottom line is that both are fantastic. I also hear good things about JainTech.

[teleguy57]

@jambee, the way I see it may depend on whether you have Ergos already, yes? While the Klamper calibers are pricey, you don't have to buy both hydro Ergos and the calipers. I suppose one could sell the mechanical brake Ergo and then you're back to a closer price comparison...

[R3awak3n]

@jambee, the way I see it may depend on whether you have Ergos already, yes? While the Klamper calibers are pricey, you don't have to buy both hydro Ergos and the calipers. I suppose one could sell the mechanical brake Ergo and then you're back to a closer price comparison...

yes that is right but there are amazing deals on hydraulic.

If you want shimano, my older R685 were $300 on ebay (maybe even less). They were brand spanking new for shifters and calipers.

My Campy potenza hydro were $170 per shifter/caliper so you are looking at $340. I bet you can get sram flavor for about the same.

The pauls are $150 per caliper (and this is on the low low low side). So $300 just for the brakes. Sell your shifters and you will get the hydros for under $300 and will have a better braking system.

Now if you have a travel bike and/or just love paul and love the looks then Paul it is.

[jtbadge]

Klampers seem super legit for a cable disc option, i.e. for mating with what are now "legacy" cable brake road shifters. If you're using a flat bar set up, get Shimano hydraulic brakes and don't look back. Even Deore level are excellent.

[bantin]

Reviving this old thread (lmk if that's bad form, I could start a new one) because I basically have the same question as OP, but instead of deciding between klampers and MTB hydros I'm deciding between klampers and shimano 105 hydraulic. I'd expect the comparison is closer here. It would be on a gravel bike that occasionally gets ridden fully loaded and on singletrack, though most riding would be pavement, dirt roads. Thoughts in that case?

[prototoast]

Reviving this old thread (lmk if that's bad form, I could start a new one) because I basically have the same question as OP, but instead of deciding between klampers and MTB hydros I'm deciding between klampers and shimano 105 hydraulic. I'd expect the comparison is closer here. It would be on a gravel bike that occasionally gets ridden fully loaded and on singletrack, though most riding would be pavement, dirt roads. Thoughts in that case?

If you don't already have shifters on hand, I can't think of a reason why to buy Klampers + some other shifters vs 105 hydraulic. Shimano hydraulic works really well, and you can get 105 shifters + brakes for about the same price as just the Paul brakes.

[p nut]

Performance goes to hydraulics, no question.

I have hydraulics on my MTB and always will.
For my bikepacker, it’s mechanicals. It’s not used much so it hangs most of the time. When it’s time to go, I don’t have to mess with bleeding. With 203 rotors, it stops almost as well as 180mm hydraulics. Zero complaints.

[robt57]

Not used clampers myself. But if my minimoto are any indicator of quality and performance, I'd try them.

My best now with no exception are R8070 set up. My 17 year old Juicy MTB setup, also 100% even still.

My MiniMoto Canti brake bike IS the best stopping bike in my riding history. The 8070 very close 2nd.

That said, I have HY/RD, 4 pot Juintechs, Spyre SLs and have had SLCs [prefer non SLC fwiw].

All my cable actuated are polished cables and some compression-less housings. ALL ARE front Swiss stop green organic pads. Polished cables to me more important than compression-less housings. Don't want a rear easy to lock up, and front short cable with polished cable perfect for cable actuated, IMO of course... So I consider my big Jag roll of compression-less a good lesson in money not needed to have spent.

For me these pads brought cable setups from 75% as good to 90% as good.

90% is fine for me. But the 100% just is a bit better. And there is no way around it.

It is also my opinion TRP Pads that come with Spyres are sheit, ok for a rear, but front, not [IMO]

[robt57]

Performance goes to hydraulics, no question.

I have hydraulics on my MTB and always will.
For my bikepacker, it’s mechanicals. It’s not used much so it hangs most of the time. When it’s time to go, I don’t have to mess with bleeding. With 203 rotors, it stops almost as well as 180mm hydraulics. Zero complaints.

Yes, I've run a front 180mm on two AllRoad bikes, good for almost that last 5%. ;)

[mstateglfr]

Reviving this old thread (lmk if that's bad form, I could start a new one) because I basically have the same question as OP, but instead of deciding between klampers and MTB hydros I'm deciding between klampers and shimano 105 hydraulic. I'd expect the comparison is closer here. It would be on a gravel bike that occasionally gets ridden fully loaded and on singletrack, though most riding would be pavement, dirt roads. Thoughts in that case?

Buy the Paul brakes if your biggest priority is look. Buy the 105 hydraulic if your biggest priority is use.

I have 105 shifters and hydraulic brakes on my gravel bike- they are absolutely great. They aren't pretty colors though.

[bantin]

Thanks yall. Went for the 105. Just wish they were prettier :)

[Lovetoclimb]

Klampers look good but the performance is nowhere near the price tag. If you don’t have big descents or foresee using the brakes hard then maybe that’s not critical for you. If I could do it over again I would not buy them. However the new crop of cable actuated hydros seem intriguing. Look better than many regular MTB hydro setups, and sit somewhere between Klampers and full hydro. Those with a nice Paul lever might be worth consideration. Otherwise I’d say just go with XT, it’s always a good choice.

[Kirk007]

I think people make too much fine distinction on brakes/braking. I just spent a few days descending some of the biggest Cols in the Alps using Ultegra hydro. Frankly I would have preferred rim brakes, but that’s just me.

Klampers and hydros and rim brakes will control your speed and stop you just fine as long as you know how to use them. I wouldn’t choose Klampers over hydro based on which will stop you “better” as they are both fine.

Other considerations may come into play: perhaps you prefer the smaller hoods of cable actuated shifters. Maybe you want easier repair I’d in the boonies - cable replacement vs bleed etc. I have Klampers on a bike designated for travel - they work great but they are $$, clunky looking but may survive a zombie apocalypse.

You don’t have a bad choice between the two - just decide what’s important to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hilltopperny]

I have both on some of my current bikes. The 105 hydros work very well, but I have seen them in the shop because the reservoir can bust during bleeding. I have Klampers on multiple bikes.

I prefer mechanical shifter hoods over the bulkier hydro set ups, so the Klamper wins if that is a concern. I also like the simplicity and aesthetic of them over the hydro calipers.

Once bedded and properly set up they are great, but hydro brakes still feel more powerful and modulate a bit better. There will be more maintenance with hydro brakes over time and if something were to happen to them they are not really field serviceable.

The Klampers work and are more user friendly if you need to service them. The 105 stuff feels wonderful and works great, but will eventually need more maintenance over time. My opinion is you can't go wrong with either.

Sent from my SM-S127DL using Tapatalk

[tellyho]

I totally agree that hydro brakes are the best braking. Bleeding brakes and maintaining hydro brakes is not my favorite task. For me, the convenience and low-maintenance of mechanical disks is preferable. I have Spyres on a gravel bike. They work fine.

[CAAD]

Spyers have worked well for me. I did have issues for a while with very poor performance and fading. From the recommendations on this form I swapped out the rotors and put on a fresh set of pads. New pads + Icetech rotors = excellent performance. I honestly don't feel like hydro would be much of an improvement. Yes, I have ridden plenty of hydro road disc, I was constantly bleeding and replacing squealing pads at the shop. For me it was also the sheer simplicity of mechanical disc, I travel a lot and can get spares no matter where I am at in the world. I would love to try those Grotac Equal brakes from Velo Orange, too rich for my blood.

[Turkle]

I have Spyres on one bike, and 105 hydro on another.

The 105 hydro is light-years better than the Spyres, even with aftermarket pads on the Spyres!

I do think that the principal advantage of mechanical disc is that you can service them on a ride out in the middle of nowhere. Definitely can't do that with hydro. So I think that if you're riding a lot of remote gravel, far from help, then mechanical disc starts to sound like a much better proposition.

I have hydro on the road bike and mechanical on the gravel/winter bike.

[robt57]

A take away for me reading these might be that on loose surfaces whatever % better the hydro setups are may be minimized a bit??

If we are talking mostly gravel use perhaps...

[bshell]

Offroad/overland(not dragging a bike), I think I walk @ 3mph -so I'd consider anything further than three miles to be a buzzkill.

I came across a guy last Friday who'd removed his rear wheel and then bumped his brake lever -closing his pistons and pads, but not completely. Unable to reinstall the wheel, he asked me for help. Neither of us knew how to fix it but we jammed house keys of different thicknesses into the gap and levered it open.

Otherwise he would have been thoroughly boned. Are there other fixes?

I'm down with mech.

[bantin]

You can pretty much always pry the pads back open with a tire lever or similar. I'd count that as annoying but not a real downside of hydro.

[bshell]

I'm told there is a special tool that he didn't have but levers wouldn't fit the gap. House key to the rescue.

That said, this scenario is certainly avoidable. I only share because I don't use hydraulics so it wasn't something I was aware of.

[sparky33]

Klampers are excellent once broken in. They need a few weeks to come into their power. These make a credible argument for cables in a hydro world.

The cable routing is outboard of where most calipers put it, and so that can be a challenge. That's my only significant complaint.

[Tommasini53]

Reviewed in BikeRumors....
https://bikerumor.com/paul-klamper-mechanical-disc-brake-review-comparison-growtac-equal/

[JAGI410]

I have Klampers, hydros, and BB5s.

They all work just fine. It's all in the setup.

That said, I'd buy Klampers again before BB5s, and I wouldn't consider hydros for my road/gravel/bikepacking bike. I like the "lifetime" function of Klampers, I'll get my money's worth out of them for sure.

[tkbike]

I have Klampers, hydros, and BB5s.

They all work just fine. It's all in the setup.

That said, I'd buy Klampers again before BB5s, and I wouldn't consider hydros for my road/gravel/bikepacking bike. I like the "lifetime" function of Klampers, I'll get my money's worth out of them for sure.

Curious as to why you wouldn't consider hydros...I have over 30,000 miles in the past 6 years of touring on hydros with no issues.

I don't credit card tour, most of my rides are over 1000 miles and fully loaded with camping gear and no support.

I have tried Klampers on a bike used for easy tours(500-1000 miles) but found they were unreliable for steep descents with modest loads of 20 pounds or more.

What are you referring to as "lifetime" function of the Klampers, 50k, 75K, 100K?

[JAGI410]

Hydros *can* be trouble free, and many people have many miles of success with them. Otherwise the lines can kink, get slashed, seals crack and fail, and still require maintenance that isn't easy to do trailside.

Klampers are built with simple parts. Any bike shop in the world will likely have the right pads, and simple ball bearings with fresh grease will have them good as new. Far simpler design with less parts to fail.

[proxient]

If you have a choice between klampers and any hydro brakes of similar price, and you choose klampers, you've made a horrible choice, or you don't ride much.

[Turkle]

If you have a choice between klampers and any hydro brakes of similar price, and you choose klampers, you've made a horrible choice, or you don't ride much.

This is such a bad-tempered and insulting comment. Why would you post like this? Obviously different riders have different priorities than you, and that's fine.

Maybe you need to get your attitude together and remember that you're not the main character of reality, and are not the only cyclist in the world that has thought about their braking.

Take this attitude back to Reddit where it belongs.

[sparky33]

Cabled discs make life easier if you tinker with bikes, swap parts, move parts, change things, etc. And isn't tinkering half the fun of this?

For sure, setting up hydros can become efficient with practice, but it does take time, skills and a proper bleed kit to do correctly. Whereas I swapped brake levers linked to Klampers the other day, and it took two minutes with zero mess. As such, I'm way more inclined to experiment on a bike with Klampers or similar.

[sparky33]

Reviewed in BikeRumors....
https://bikerumor.com/paul-klamper-mechanical-disc-brake-review-comparison-growtac-equal/

Thank you for this one. The reviewer captured the nuance that matters.

[JAGI410]

And isn't tinkering half the fun of this?

You get it.

[Kirk007]

If you have a choice between klampers and any hydro brakes of similar price, and you choose klampers, you've made a horrible choice, or you don't ride much.

ditto what Turtle said.

And for the record: I have 6 bikes with discs (although I'm reducing that number as I think the hype for road disc far exceeds the reality), ride around 6-8k miles per year, have done so for 30 years and the Klampers on my travel bike have just as good a feel and stop just as well as any hydro - Sram, Shimano, and better than other cable disc I've used (although they have been fine as well). I've got a set of Growtac sitting in my parts box and I'll give them a try at some point as well.

[mstateglfr]

Cabled discs make life easier if you tinker with bikes, swap parts, move parts, change things, etc. And isn't tinkering half the fun of this?


For many people- no.

I build up all my bikes from frames, and have built a frame too. I geek out on maintenance and for me it is some of the fun.
But no, many people arent into cycling for the wrenching. Many people dont even have enough bikes and components to swap some disc brakes from bike to bike.
Even on nerd forums, many dont have the time/space/aptitude/interest to wrench.

Both systems can easily be 'set it and forget it'.

[wvucyclist]

If you have a choice between klampers and any hydro brakes of similar price, and you choose klampers, you've made a horrible choice, or you don't ride much.

That's pretty harsh. I have a friend who rotates bikes, so he pulled his road bike out after it had been sitting for a while, hydraulic brakes were in dire need of a bleed, like unsafe to ride. He didn't store the bike properly, but if he went with mechanical he wouldn't have had any issues. Plus for some (myself included) put a value on American made products and the fact that Paul himself is on youtube talking about his stuff and showing us his shop.

[Dave]

I used Juin-Tech calipers for almost two years on two bikes and thought they worked quite well, but I've switched to frames with all internal routing and integrated bars. When you do that, hydraulic is the only sensible choice. I've installed three sets of Force AXS brake/shift levers now and had no problems with installation.

Sram force axs shift levers for cable operated brakes are currently tough to find, but of course that changes from month to month. Cassettes are now in short supply too. Force hydraulic brake/shift levers are currently easy to find.