View Full Version : An observation on clothing and aerodynamics
I stuffed myself into an old “race cut” jersey for today’s ride (lost a good amount of weight recently; it barely fits again). The jersey was super snug, no flapping fabric and not the most flattering fit [emoji4]
When I came back home, I noticed that I set a PR in a downhill section. On a steel frame with 32 spoke TB14 rims, aka aero bricks. Previous PR was on an aero frame with HED Jet 6+ wheels, but wearing a more “club fit” jersey. Position was also a bit more aggressive (lower and longer) on the aero bike.
A few more pounds and maybe I will stuff myself into a Castelli San Remo Speedsuit and go chasing Strava KOMs... [emoji4]
verticaldoug
08-22-2018, 09:58 PM
Back in 2010 MIT Cycling team played with aerodynamics in the campus wind tunnel.
Aero helmet saves you more than anything except body position.
Removing your bottles and cages are about next
wearing gloves costs you more than your aero wheel.
ditto for how you attach your race number.
so yeah, a tight jersey saves more time than aero wheels.
moral of the story, if you are riding an aerobike with aero wheels and not an aero helmet, you are a moron. Your $300 aerohelmet saves you the most... oh maybe the skin suit is a second.
Interesting, I also wasn’t wearing any gloves on this ride :)
pasadena
08-23-2018, 12:21 AM
wind tunnel on the subject
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEPIrzr392I
also a great wind tunnel short with Graeme Obree and various aero kit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ9H0INZ2_s
Clean39T
08-23-2018, 12:54 AM
wind tunnel on the subject
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEPIrzr392I
also a great wind tunnel short with Graeme Obree and various aero kit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ9H0INZ2_s
Can't decide if Graeme is a genius, or from a different genus - but either way, he never ceases to entertain and inform.. The world needs more people like him in it.
Clean39T
08-23-2018, 12:56 AM
I stuffed myself into an old “race cut” jersey for today’s ride (lost a good amount of weight recently; it barely fits again). The jersey was super snug, no flapping fabric and not the most flattering fit :)
When I came back home, I noticed that I set a PR in a downhill section. On a steel frame with 32 spoke TB14 rims. Previous PR was on an aero frame with HED Jet 6+ wheels, but wearing a more “club fit” jersey. Position was also a bit more aggressive on the aero bike.
A few more pounds and maybe I will stuff myself into a Castelli San Remo Speedsuit and go chasing Strava KOMs... :)
Considering you lost pounds, it's even more surprising...momentum and all that...right?.
Don't forget that steel bikes plane going downhill too :banana: - they're #faster_everywhere ...
pasadena
08-23-2018, 01:54 AM
Can't decide if Graeme is a genius, or from a different genus - but either way, he never ceases to entertain and inform.. The world needs more people like him in it.
A gifted athlete and innovator. Historic.
Amazing to see how aero he was on a old, standard UCI bike. Still more aero than most of the Pro Tour.
Back in 2010 MIT Cycling team played with aerodynamics in the campus wind tunnel.
Aero helmet saves you more than anything except body position.
Removing your bottles and cages are about next
wearing gloves costs you more than your aero wheel.
ditto for how you attach your race number.
so yeah, a tight jersey saves more time than aero wheels.
moral of the story, if you are riding an aerobike with aero wheels and not an aero helmet, you are a moron. Your $300 aerohelmet saves you the most... oh maybe the skin suit is a second.
Do not forget hairy legs and arms apparently that’s a few Watts
I wish I could ride without gloves but arthritis has killed my grip.
JB
coreydoesntknow
08-23-2018, 07:29 AM
Another skinsuit perk which often flys below the radar? Impossible to miss match.
johnniecakes
08-23-2018, 07:39 AM
Congratulation's on decreased weight and improved time. I would be willing to bet that the decreased weight had more of an effect that a jersey. But either way things are looking up for you and that is great !!
Burnette
08-23-2018, 08:13 AM
wind tunnel on the subject
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEPIrzr392I
also a great wind tunnel short with Graeme Obree and various aero kit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ9H0INZ2_s
I enjoyed watching these this morning, thanks for posting this.
And Get Out was just amazing, Ha!
makoti
08-23-2018, 08:26 AM
Congratulation's on decreased weight and improved time. I would be willing to bet that the decreased weight had more of an effect that a jersey. But either way things are looking up for you and that is great !!
Downhill, so the decreased weight should have been a detriment. Non-flapping clothing makes a huge difference.
The founder of Assos started out to make a more aerodynamic bike back in the 70's but ended up pursing clothing and position on the bike (bars mounted off the fork crown) instead of the bike project because he found that they were more impactful on aerodynamics than tubes on the frame. It is interesting to see how things have developed since then.
Back in 2010 MIT Cycling team played with aerodynamics in the campus wind tunnel.
Aero helmet saves you more than anything except body position.
Removing your bottles and cages are about next
wearing gloves costs you more than your aero wheel.
ditto for how you attach your race number.
so yeah, a tight jersey saves more time than aero wheels.
moral of the story, if you are riding an aerobike with aero wheels and not an aero helmet, you are a moron. Your $300 aerohelmet saves you the most... oh maybe the skin suit is a second.
This this this 1000x.
Thankfully there are a bunch of aero/semi-aero helmets out now that don't look ridiculous and don't cost $300.
I didn't remember the thing about gloves. I think that must explain why we seem to see so many pros skipping the gloves these days even when it seems they are at a high risk of a crash and hurting their hands.
I am at this point pretty sure that most of the gloves with padding are probably worse for your hand health than no gloves but if I'm going to crash I would still really rather be wearing gloves so I'm wearing unpadded gloves.
I have a mix of tight race fit jerseys and somewhat looser ones. I definitely feel faster in the race fit ones, and I'm fit enough to not look ridiculous in them, but the ones that are just a hair looser seem so much more comfortable. Meanwhile the really lose "club fit" jerseys just seem ridiculous on me.
Race #s seem untuitive but damn if I never have felt like I got the trick of pinning them on my own jersey effectively and I'm always aware of them flapping. You really do need someone else who can do it for you or something.
VTR1000SP2
08-23-2018, 10:08 AM
Wrinkles are the enemy.
Back in 2010 MIT Cycling team played with aerodynamics in the campus wind tunnel.
Aero helmet saves you more than anything except body position.
Removing your bottles and cages are about next
wearing gloves costs you more than your aero wheel.
ditto for how you attach your race number.
so yeah, a tight jersey saves more time than aero wheels.
moral of the story, if you are riding an aerobike with aero wheels and not an aero helmet, you are a moron. Your $300 aerohelmet saves you the most... oh maybe the skin suit is a second.
Yeah, well....an aero helmet makes you look like a dork and aero wheels look cool.
So THERE!
;)
But riding fast always looks cool!
David Tollefson
08-23-2018, 10:24 AM
Wrinkles are the enemy.
Staring at 55 next month, this is not good news.
echappist
08-23-2018, 10:30 AM
Do not forget hairy legs and arms apparently that’s a few Watts
I wish I could ride without gloves but arthritis has killed my grip.
JB
On some people (e.g. yours truly), that may be the most gain after positioning. Takes me ~45 minutes to shave after leaving hairs to their own devices. I def got a lot faster on my road bike after i started shaving.
tombtfslpk
08-23-2018, 11:14 AM
Staring at 55 next month, this is not good news.
^
Beat me to the age joke.
Gloves are slower? Have you seen the wrinkles on MY hands?
93KgBike
08-23-2018, 11:14 AM
wind tunnel on the subject
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEPIrzr392I
also a great wind tunnel short with Graeme Obree and various aero kit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ9H0INZ2_s
Wow. Thanks so much, Pasadena! I could have gone through life and never seen that video. Graeme Obree is just the most fascinating person, and this film short really brings that into the foreground. Must see for cycling nuts. Thanks again.
The 1st link goes to some movie review thing, however.
pasadena
08-23-2018, 02:59 PM
Ha! I didn't get the Get Out reference until 93kgBike mentioned the bad link!
here is the correct link on wind tunnel testing of loose vs tight kit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmNGQLi36xc&t=91s
I enjoyed watching these this morning, thanks for posting this.
And Get Out was just amazing, Ha!
Wow. Thanks so much, Pasadena! I could have gone through life and never seen that video. Graeme Obree is just the most fascinating person, and this film short really brings that into the foreground. Must see for cycling nuts. Thanks again.
The 1st link goes to some movie review thing, however.
Burnette
08-23-2018, 03:10 PM
Ha! I didn't get the Get Out reference until 93kgBike mentioned the bad link!
here is the correct link on wind tunnel testing of loose vs tight kit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmNGQLi36xc&t=91s
Movie video was pretty good, I watched all of it, Ha!
Wind tunnel video was good too, thanks for sharing.
VTR1000SP2
08-23-2018, 03:24 PM
Just in case someone is interested in putting this theory to test, I'm selling a Shimano S-Phyre skinsuit: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=226741&highlight=skinsuit
Burnette
08-23-2018, 03:29 PM
Just in case someone is interested in putting this theory to test, I'm selling a Shimano S-Phyre skinsuit: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=226741&highlight=skinsuit
I have two skin suits and love them both. And it's more so for the feel of them than the aero quotient. One layer and not having anything hanging off my back, it makes for a more comfortable and unencumbered free feeling ride.
Good luck with the sale and I bet some would be surprised how much they like them over bibs/baselayer/jerseys.
VTR1000SP2
08-23-2018, 03:43 PM
I have two skin suits and love them both. And it's more so for the feel of them than the aero quotient. One layer and not having anything hanging off my back, it makes for a more comfortable and unencumbered free feeling ride.
Good luck with the sale and I bet some would be surprised how much they like them over bibs/baselayer/jerseys.
I like skinsuits so much it’s all I buy now. Nothing better than unzipping a jersey on a hot day and it isn’t flapping around behind you.
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