Dar-E-Oh!

[NAHBS]

One might assume when they recieve and email that says
"have some cold beers ready for me in San Jose and I will bring you a pair of those chainstays" it might possibly mean that Mr. Pegoretti will be at NAHBS in March....

:beer:

That exchange happened very recently.


DW

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . atmo drink beer?

Or maybe BostonDrunk is coming to see you?

BBD

[obtuse]

bbd-

one of these three people will be there.


obtuse

[weisan]

The Jerk/obtuse unveils himself :rolleyes: :p

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . is Dario Pegoretti?!?!?!

Cool! :cool:

BBD

[swoop]

i could drive up for that with cary ford (who i left on the side of the road 40 miles from home today with a bb that was coming out of the bike).

[SoCalSteve]

i could drive up for that with cary ford (who i left on the side of the road 40 miles from home today with a bb that was coming out of the bike).

Road trip!

Maybe I'll join you guys (if you'll have me).

Let me know,

Steve

PS: I have a decent sized SUV (that gets horrible mpg). But, my company pays the gas, score!

[Jeff Weir]

Is Dario passing a roach to Obtuse?

[NAHBS]

Is Dario passing a roach to Obtuse?

Inhales....here, take a hit.... :D

DW

[Ginger]

The Jerk/obtuse unveils himself :rolleyes: :p
I think he looks taller in person.

[BdaGhisallo]

hey Swoop,

what happened with Cary's bb? I had an italian threaded bb wind out on me once. I must admit I can't understand the continued existence of italian threading when english is so superior in safety terms - they don't wind out. What do you guys with pegs put on the bb threads to stop them from unwinding mid-ride?

So is this a first step for the Obtuse Jerk on the way to a full cover story feature in People magazine?

[72gmc]

I think he looks taller in person.

Waitaminnit... are you saying he's the guy on the right?

[davids]

bbd-

one of these three people will be there.


obtuse
Priceless, atmo.

[Serpico]

.
'etti duo
.

[Too Tall]

OMG, I think I farted. Quick take the shot

[Too Tall]

PS - Don, yah done it again. D@amn proud of you :) Amazing stuff.

[NAHBS]

PS - Don, yah done it again. D@amn proud of you :) Amazing stuff.

Grassyass!

DW

[catulle]

bbd-

one of these three people will be there.


obtuse

You guys are mean. Why are you making the poor Russian look like a wannabe, atmo? :beer:

[davyt]

Pegoretti Responsorium :: Competitive Cyclist (http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&PRODUCT.ID=3668)

[soulspinner]

Wow. Heres hoping and praying The Man is going to be ok...

[1centaur]

Cynically, I'd say Brendan is worried about selling that paint job. Non-cynically, I hope his concerns are overstated and I am impressed that he wrote what he wrote. It feels honest and thoughtful to me.

[cs124]

Cynically, I'd say Brendan is worried about selling that paint job. Non-cynically, I hope his concerns are overstated and I am impressed that he wrote what he wrote. It feels honest and thoughtful to me.

I kinda think the opposite...that the paintjob will be a big selling point... moreso if this really is Dario's swansong.

Even the cynic in me thought the write up was pretty moving.

[my2cents]

is harold - one of the owners of international bicycle centers in boston. sold me my first racing bike at cost (vitus aluminum) and when that was stolen, sold me a vitus cabon 9 with full c-record for about 1/2 the retail cost. the bike became a bonding disaster (seat tube at bottom bracket failed and was re-bonded 2 times before it could no longer be fixed) but harold is ok in my book.

[swoop]

Pegoretti Responsorium :: Competitive Cyclist (http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&PRODUCT.ID=3668)


it is exactly my impression from interbike too.

[atmo]

it is exactly my impression from interbike too.
wow that text perked me up atmo!!
the industry needs more like this.

[Serpico]

is that really the place for those comments?

[swoop]

wow that text perked me up atmo!!
the industry needs more like this.


the kid can write and think at the same time (not an easy task). and he knows his lower east siders of the 80's too!

[Cary Ford]

is that really the place for those comments?

Given that it's one of the only places you can get any real info on Pegorettis, I'd say...YES.

[Grant McLean]

is that really the place for those comments?

I was thinking the same.

It's more than a little disturbing, actually.
I'm not sure I want that kind of "baggage" on my bike.
It makes a great bicycle into an object of art, and all
the complication that it implies.

When the piece started off about how all people saw was
the paint, I was thinking it was going to go in the opposite
direction. Forget the paint... I want what's underneath.

g

[atmo]

the kid can write and think at the same time (not an easy task). and he knows his lower east siders of the 80's too!
i hate to seem (more) shallow but i don't know
which i love more about basquiet - the movie
or the soundtrack. we saw it 3 years ago and i'll
admit he was not on my radar in the 80s atmo.

[Cary Ford]

hey Swoop,

what happened with Cary's bb? I had an italian threaded bb wind out on me once. I must admit I can't understand the continued existence of italian threading when english is so superior in safety terms - they don't wind out. What do you guys with pegs put on the bb threads to stop them from unwinding mid-ride?



The dealio is that the unnamed importer of said frame had installed the BB in North Carolina when the frame arrived so that they could check the clearances between crank arms and chain stays.

The frame was then forwarded to me with the BB installed. My mechanic here built the rest of the bike. Yesterday when I took the bike over, after I hitched a ride with my wife and child back from Palos Verdes, my mechanic discovered that the BB shell had been improperly faced when it was "prepped" at the importer.

He said it looked like the facing had been done "with a razor blade or a pocket knife" - it was very uneven. He said this uneveness, coupled with the fact that the little bolt on the bottom of the shell which holds the cable router thingy on was tightened all the way in, right down onto the Campy carbon shell, helped torque the BB out as I turned the cranks.

His fix was to properly face the shell, chase the treads, and use white teflon tape on the threads when he reinstalled the BB.

Hope it works.

[Cary Ford]

i hate to seem (more) shallow but i don't know
which i love more about basquiet - the movie
or the soundtrack. we saw it 3 years ago and i'll
admit he was not on my radar in the 80s atmo.

Soundtrack.

[atmo]

Soundtrack.
oh okay thanks atmo.
ps i heart your cars.

[manet]

.

[Archibald]

That was a brutal & beautiful piece of honesty right there. I'm not privvy to what goes on in Dario's head, and maybe CC isn't either, but to me, that was an article written with sincere concern and affection, not cynicism and it made me like and feel for Dario all the more.

Seriously, that was some ****ing cool writing.

[Grant McLean]

That was a brutal & beautiful piece of honesty right there. I'm not privvy to what goes on in Dario's head, and maybe CC isn't either, but to me, that was an article written with sincere concern and affection, not cynicism and it made me like and feel for Dario all the more.

Seriously, that was some ****ing cool writing.

I wish i said that.

It reminds me of: http://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Man-Gil-Scott-Heron/dp/B000005MLZ

g

[taz-t]

I don't get Basquiat... actually I don't think there's anything there to get.

Maybe I'm an unsophisticated/uneducated philistine, but I don't see any talent or any worthwhile expression in his 'work'. Certainly no technique or talent as a draftsman from what I've seen. Just a product of '80's NewYork hype.

Don't care much for primitive or naive painting in general, but if I have to pick someone, give me Howard Finster. At least I understand where his inspiration is coming from... Another 10 years and Basquiat is a footnote.

I like the bike though... as for the CC article, Joie de vive would have been a nice paint scheme to emulate - they should've suggested it to Dario for the production models.

- taz

[swoop]

Soundtrack.


which movie.. the julian schnabel directed one where he manages to put gary oldman in his art studio imitating himself because his ego is bigger than his fat a** or the other one?


my vote is the soundtrack and an evening with claire forliani or wehatever her name is...

as for getting him.. the paintings are just a piece of the puzzle... it's just as much about art stardom and warhol attaching himself to the young so that his flame could still flicker. it was the beginning of the end of art (it comes back and dies again all the time)... it's when art became an imitation of hollywood and embraced fashion as the means... and the artists were cast in a drama, like actors. the paintings were just the roles they played... and basquiat, madonna , haring, warhol got that it wasn't about the art.. it was the artist as actor living the life of artist.. playing a role. anyway.. i digress.

there is still an antiquated belief that the picture matters. it doesn't (i think brice marden killed that with his solid blocks of color).. it's what sigmar polke does so well, the paintings are just a residue of a shamanic or cultural role the artist is playing for us.

it's gets intellectualy messy.. paint isn't the point. and it is and it isn't.. it just depends from what part of the gestalt you think you can see the whole thing (i say this cuz i lived it and got out alive and the bs is thick).

anyway.. i'd rather read someone's sincere experience of a frame maker than some bs marketing hype. it's why i try and give cc a little love when i need something that i can afford to get from them. spread the love. atmo.

[atmo]

spread the love. atmo.
agreed -
i can't believe it's not butter atmo.

[Serpico]

schnabel used to be a painter

maybe he was good at that

film had a great cast, cool subject--not sure why they thought a painter should shoot it


imo^^^

[edouard]

... i think brice marden killed that with his solid blocks of color...

it was dead prior to brice _ he was just checking for a pulse

[edouard]

...
i can't believe it's not butter...

spread the word

[atmo]

spread the word
wwwoooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd atmo

[taz-t]

which movie.. the julian schnabel directed one where he manages to put gary oldman in his art studio imitating himself because his ego is bigger than his fat a** or the other one?


my vote is the soundtrack and an evening with claire forliani or wehatever her name is...

as for getting him.. the paintings are just a piece of the puzzle... it's just as much about art stardom and warhol attaching himself to the young so that his flame could still flicker. it was the beginning of the end of art (it comes back and dies again all the time)... it's when art became an imitation of hollywood and embraced fashion as the means... and the artists were cast in a drama, like actors. the paintings were just the roles they played... and basquiat, madonna , haring, warhol got that it wasn't about the art.. it was the artist as actor living the life of artist.. playing a role. anyway.. i digress.

there is still an antiquated belief that the picture matters. it doesn't (i think brice marden killed that with his solid blocks of color).. it's what sigmar polke does so well, the paintings are just a residue of a shamanic or cultural role the artist is playing for us.

it's gets intellectualy messy.. paint isn't the point. and it is and it isn't.. it just depends from what part of the gestalt you think you can see the whole thing (i say this cuz i lived it and got out alive and the bs is thick).

anyway.. i'd rather read someone's sincere experience of a frame maker than some bs marketing hype. it's why i try and give cc a little love when i need something that i can afford to get from them. spread the love. atmo.


this is where the bullsh*t lives... the painting (or the song, or the book, play, bike frame) MATTERS... its all that matters. the rest is just peripheral crap. i believe that Warhol became famous because he wanted to be famous and he played the role of a famous artist. but in the end, he will matter because he created paintings that mattered. he worked to create an image, but he had talent and a creative genius that made the image seem important, basquiat didn't - he was all image/role no substance

its not just the fine art world that suffers from this - its the same reason some people (myself) get so passionate about something as frivilous as pop/rock music

i like e-richie's bikes not because richie is a snappy dresser and dates supermodels, its because the bikes are right - its the bike that matters. i could go out and buy the same bike that Robin Williams, or Lance or Madonna rides but i don't become Lance or Madonna, i just end up with a mediocre bike
if i buy a basquiat 'painting' i don't become a glam artdamaged semicelebrity,i just have a piece of crap to hang on a wall

Antiquated in Atlanta
- taz

[Grant McLean]

this is where the bullsh*t lives... the painting (or the song, or the book, play, bike frame) MATTERS... its all that matters. the rest is just peripheral crap. i believe that Warhol became famous because he wanted to be famous and he played the role of a famous artist. but in the end, he will matter because he created paintings that mattered. he worked to create an image, but he had talent and a creative genius that made the image seem important, basquiat didn't - he was all image/role no substance

its not just the fine art world that suffers from this - its the same reason some people (myself) get so passionate about something as frivilous as pop/rock music

i like e-richie's bikes not because richie is a snappy dresser and dates supermodels, its because the bikes are right - its the bike that matters. i could go out and buy the same bike that Robin Williams, or Lance or Madonna rides but i don't become Lance or Madonna, i just end up with a mediocre bike
if i buy a basquiat 'painting' i don't become a glam artdamaged semicelebrity,i just have a piece of crap to hang on a wall

Antiquated in Atlanta
- taz

here's to antiquated... :beer:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=271228&postcount=29

g

[swoop]

this is where the bullsh*t lives... the painting (or the song, or the book, play, bike frame) MATTERS... its all that matters. the rest is just peripheral crap. i believe that Warhol became famous because he wanted to be famous and he played the role of a famous artist. but in the end, he will matter because he created paintings that mattered. he worked to create an image, but he had talent and a creative genius that made the image seem important, basquiat didn't - he was all image/role no substance

its not just the fine art world that suffers from this - its the same reason some people (myself) get so passionate about something as frivilous as pop/rock music

i like e-richie's bikes not because richie is a snappy dresser and dates supermodels, its because the bikes are right - its the bike that matters. i could go out and buy the same bike that Robin Williams, or Lance or Madonna rides but i don't become Lance or Madonna, i just end up with a mediocre bike
if i buy a basquiat 'painting' i don't become a glam artdamaged semicelebrity,i just have a piece of crap to hang on a wall

Antiquated in Atlanta
- taz


i'm just the messenger.... but there was this thing called post modernism, and then this wonderful thing called conceptual art and.. some things changed. there is always room for mastery.. but the notion of the decorative object on the wall as being the end point is really only one of many way things of changed since a guy named duchamp came along and put a urinal in the gallery. art became about the act of seeing as much as the object being seen.

but.. this ain't the place. it's all good. sometimes if you don't like something it can be because you're seeing it in the wrong or only partial context. who said art was hedonic or about mastery? that got stomped on inthe 2oth century.

the stuff you're banging your head against was sort of fought out a long long loooooooooooooong time ago... but i can think of few paintings more powerful emotionally and more beautifuly rendered than warhols rorshach paintings. there are many dialects within a langauge.. in order to speak to the different levels of experience and then there is the medium of self-reference. if it turns out that some of these dialects are foreign to your ears.. it doesn't mean that the words being spoken aren't beautiful. it just means that it doesn't speak to you.

[Grant McLean]

i'm just the messenger.... but there was this thing called post modernism, and then this wonderful thing called conceptual art and.. some things changed. there is always room for mastery.. but the notion of the decorative object on the wall as being the end point is really only one of many way things of changed since a guy named duchamp came along and put a urinal in the gallery. art became about the act of seeing as much as the object being seen.

but.. this ain't the place. it's all good. sometimes if you don't like something it can be because you're seeing it in the wrong or only partial context. who said art was hedonic or about mastery? that got stomped on inthe 2oth century.

the stuff you're banging your head against was sort of fought out a long long loooooooooooooong time ago... but i can think of few paintings more powerful emotionally and more beautifuly rendered than warhols rorshach paintings. there are many dialects within a langauge.. in order to speak to the different levels of experience and then there is the medium of self-reference. if it turns out that some of these dialects are foreign to your ears.. it doesn't mean that the words being spoken aren't beautiful. it just means that it doesn't speak to you.

i enjoyed reading both your posts on the topic.

g

[swoop]

thanks grant. i lived this one. all of my 20's spent putting everything i had into studio rent and materials so i could play at the feet of the big boys. i wouldn't change it for the world but you couldn't pay me to live it again.

i think it's almost the same thing as trying to become a d-1 bike racer but only getting a few good looks at the finish before the hole closed up on you.. in some crap d-2 races. not enough uci points to justify the hard life and the suffering (and the hunger). and also seeing some friends win but also seeing nothing change for the better for them.

but the language is still spoke.

[musgravecycles]

i enjoyed reading both your posts on the topic.

g

What Grant said, Very well put Swoop...

[davids]

anyway.. i'd rather read someone's sincere experience of a frame maker than some bs marketing hype. it's why i try and give cc a little love when i need something that i can afford to get from them. spread the love. atmo.
Is it love? It feels like starfcuking, or at least voyeurism, to me. If Dario needs a respite from "his burdensome celebrity as a framebuilder", he's not being helped by public exposure like that. It doesn't strike me as helpful or supportive, just a public attempt to appear so.

I'm surprised that so many people whose opinions I respect think differently. Am I missing something?

[obtuse]

dario is my friend and the best framebuilder in the world. the first part of this sentence has no relevence as to why i insist on riding his bikes; the second part is the only thing anyone should worry about when marketing, considering for purchase, or discussing his frames.

the responsorium isn't a piece of art or a suicide note. it's a racing bicycle; and you won't find a finer one anywhere.

obtuse

[djg]

schnabel used to be a painter

maybe he was good at that

imo^^^

Like ... best music review ever. NYT, on Schnabel, the front man: a cross between Michael Bolton and Leonard Cohen, combining the songwriting ability of Mr. Bolton and the voice of Cohen.

[dbrk]

Dario pours his heart into his work and like all human beings he feels deeply both his joys and sorrows. It is never safe to reveal one's inner light and darkness since that invariably invites criticism. If you write a book, speak in public, create art or contribute to craft, you open yourself to others' opinions and must accept that vulnerability. And unlike most of us, DP expresses his feelings and makes these self-reflections in public through his work. I see no turn into darkness but rather still more effort in self-expression that will evolve and reveal his depth of character and purpose. Clearly, DP uses the frame as a canvas of self-inquiry and revelation and very few bicycle frame builders have even considered that possibility. We see paint "schemes" and designs that market or simply please but in DP we see efforts to express complexity of emotion and insight.

I commend my friend Brendan at Competitive Cyclist for his efforts at explanation and interpretation though I don't find myself in complete agreement with his conclusions. I too consider myself Dario's friend and have spent hours enough speaking with him to know that he looks deeply into his soul, into music, history, bicycle lore, and art and offers commentary and feeling in his work. He is blessed with remarkable gifts and shares them, for joy and for sorrow, in open hearted and complex self-expression. There is something very human in this effort and as personal as it is, I think he means to invite us to our own evocative self-inquiry, perhaps prompted or inspired by the work. Beyond our own efforts to appreciate what DP has to say in his paint designs, I find it more plausible to allow the work to speak for itself and less about Pegoretti himself. He would prefer, I think, that we make an interpretation for ourselves, that we approach the meaning as a human experience (not his in particular) and that there is more to be gained in probing our own souls than in looking into his. Dario as a person is too generous, too curious and delighted in friendship, and too interested in life to think his work is only about himself.

When you ask Dario about the frame materials and design, about the history of Italian cycling and his work, you see that old piratical eye, an eye that looks back with both joy and sadness and yet still forward to a future filled with still more creativity. Beyond the paint is a pure racing bicycle and among the very best in the world, though all I have to go on is my experience.

dbrk

[manet]

the responsorium isn't a piece of art or a suicide note.

agreed.

[atmo]

i think dario is alone without peers, especially when you
consider that he's the last practicing italian framebuilder
doing it the italian way, the it being perfecting the design
and assembly of what is the consumate italian sporting
good - the bicycle. his industry was torn apart by the mtb
and the subsequent americanization of all things bici atmo.
it's normal that's he'd be abit morose about it. i hardly think
he'll take a walk in traffic though.

separately, this chat about the cc page and brendon's text:
i love it. it's refreshing. (the it being the page and the text).
but it's a sales aid, not an op-ed piece atmo. it's a decent
read and i hope they got a ton of hits today and mebbe an
order or two atmo.

[Johny]

i think dario is alone without peers, especially when you
consider that he's the last practicing italian framebuilder
doing it the italian way, the it being perfecting the design
and assembly of what is the consumate italian sporting
good - the bicycle. his industry was torn apart by the mtb
and the subsequent americanization of all things bici atmo.
it's normal that's he'd be abit morose about it. i hardly think
he'll take a walk in traffic though.

separately, this chat about the cc page and brendon's text:
i love it. it's refreshing. (the it being the page and the text).
but it's a sales aid, not an op-ed piece atmo. it's a decent
read and i hope they got a ton of hits today and mebbe an
order or two atmo.

+1ATMO1+

[cadence90]

.... ..
.

[Climb01742]

Dario pours his heart into his work and like all human beings he feels deeply both his joys and sorrows. It is never safe to reveal one's inner light and darkness since that invariably invites criticism. If you write a book, speak in public, create art or contribute to craft, you open yourself to others' opinions and must accept that vulnerability. And unlike most of us, DP expresses his feelings and makes these self-reflections in public through his work. I see no turn into darkness but rather still more effort in self-expression that will evolve and reveal his depth of character and purpose. Clearly, DP uses the frame as a canvas of self-inquiry and revelation and very few bicycle frame builders have even considered that possibility. We see paint "schemes" and designs that market or simply please but in DP we see efforts to express complexity of emotion and insight.

I commend my friend Brendan at Competitive Cyclist for his efforts at explanation and interpretation though I don't find myself in complete agreement with his conclusions. I too consider myself Dario's friend and have spent hours enough speaking with him to know that he looks deeply into his soul, into music, history, bicycle lore, and art and offers commentary and feeling in his work. He is blessed with remarkable gifts and shares them, for joy and for sorrow, in open hearted and complex self-expression. There is something very human in this effort and as personal as it is, I think he means to invite us to our own evocative self-inquiry, perhaps prompted or inspired by the work. Beyond our own efforts to appreciate what DP has to say in his paint designs, I find it more plausible to allow the work to speak for itself and less about Pegoretti himself. He would prefer, I think, that we make an interpretation for ourselves, that we approach the meaning as a human experience (not his in particular) and that there is more to be gained in probing our own souls than in looking into his. Dario as a person is too generous, too curious and delighted in friendship, and too interested in life to think his work is only about himself.

When you ask Dario about the frame materials and design, about the history of Italian cycling and his work, you see that old piratical eye, an eye that looks back with both joy and sadness and yet still forward to a future filled with still more creativity. Beyond the paint is a pure racing bicycle and among the very best in the world, though all I have to go on is my experience.

dbrk

i'm glad douglas feels this way. i've been lucky enough to spend some time with dario over the past year. i've seen him with torch in hand and with a glass of wine in his hand. the last year has been hard for him but what i remember, and felt, most when i was with dario was his warmth and humanity...his light, not his darkness. one night we had dinner with dario and his son. between the two of them was love, laughter and light, a ton of light. i've seen dario with his girlfriend. and again i saw love, laughter and light. i can't claim to "know" dario but in the time i've spent with him, i saw a different side of him than brendan writes about. i hope that the light is outshining the dark.

and FWIW, i think brendan's piece crosses a line it should not have crossed. brendan is a great guy. his heart is in the right place. but as every single one of us does, i think he had a lapse of judgement. an artist has a right to reveal their private life. i'm not sure others do. but if it was a "mistake", i think brendan's write-up was an error born of concern and compassion.

a lot of folks care about ya, round.

[soulspinner]

Great post Climb. I read the article and felt fear for him. Glad to see the other side shines. I want a frame of his but must wait till I get the scratch. Nice to see that the Atmos and Darios have souls.

[stevep]

i dont like the paint job, myself.
the rest does not belong in an advertisement imho.

[Ginger]

I'm not a pro...just a writer... Has anyone checked on Brendan to see how he's doing? No, I don't think the man is about to walk into traffic either, but often when writing about such subjects; people project some of their own inner stuff...if ya care about him and know him, give him a call. ;)

Second...Violence...isn't that oh so appropriate theme for a race frame?! If an artist who built a frame for such a battle, brings that inner expression out when painting a frame, he brought it out while painting the frame...if you don't like it, get the thing painted red or black. (post edit...I hesitated to mention the paint job...but it ties in to the advert. Personally, I haven't seen the paint job in person, I suspect like all art, the impact in person is greater...)

And yeah, I agree with SteveP. That piece, though well written doesn't belong in an advert (like the hemingway paragraph in the Assos pillow ad). Although it *has* gotten everyone on the thread talking about Dario and his frame, and that's what marketing is about...
*Sales* is about you actually buying the thing...I feel the piece lacked good sales information. I walk this line every day. In fact...if it were my piece I'd say that I basically understood the technical differences in this frame but I lacked a good technical understanding of the market differentiators of this product and what it would do for the buying public and got a little worried about that so I filled space...that gets people talking, but it doesn't sell the product.

[J.Greene]

Second...Violence...isn't that oh so appropriate theme for a race frame?! If an artist who built a frame for such a battle, brings that inner expression out when painting a frame, he brought it out while painting the frame


Agreed!

JG

[atmo]

snipped here: Although it *has* gotten everyone on the thread talking about Dario and his frame, and that's what marketing is about...
*Sales* is about you actually buying the thing...I feel the piece lacked good sales information. I walk this line every day. In fact...if it were my piece I'd say that I basically understood the technical differences in this frame but I lacked a good technical understanding of the market differentiators of this product and what it would do for the buying public and got a little worried about that so I filled space...that gets people talking, but it doesn't sell the product.
agreed and disagreed atmo.
this frame (and paint scheme), as is its luigino brother, is
not the bread and butter. it's a signature piece that gets folks
in the peg door. atmo, it's like the haute couture atelier around
the corner from a firm's pret-a-porter stand alone store. everyone
sees the buzz surrounding the fine stitching, and the petite mains,
and the skinny models, and the expensive price tag, but most of
us buy off the rack. the marcelo, the ble, and the others will all
benefit from the very few basquiat-ish frames that dario produces.
it's all very bijan and verdura, and i mean that as a compliment.

[Archibald]

Great post Climb. I read the article and felt fear for him. Glad to see the other side shines. I want a frame of his but must wait till I get the scratch. Nice to see that the Atmos and Darios have souls.
+1

I "know" Dario, chit chat, shake hands, kind of know, but I don't know him. After reading that article I too was concerned. I took it at face value because I couldn't really imagine someone professing to be Dario's friend writing that with a slant or idea towards profit. That might sound a little harsh, but that's the bottom line. But, after talking to people who know Dario, I feel I've been had.

Bottom line is I still feel for Dario just as I'd feel for anybody I know and respect who has to travel a rough road, but I've just become a little more cynical too. That sucks.

[atmo]

+1

I "know" Dario, chit chat, shake hands, kind of know, but I don't know him. After reading that article I too was concerned. I took it at face value because I couldn't really imagine someone professing to be Dario's friend writing that with a slant or idea towards profit. That might sound a little harsh, but that's the bottom line. But, after talking to people who know Dario, I feel I've been had.<cut>
you haven't been had. it's business, not personal.
hyman roth always made money for his partners atmo.

[catulle]

I appreciate what I read about Mr. Pegoretti on the CC site. I'm not sure it will last there too long because of criticism from the general public or/and because Mr. Pegoretti won't be too happy to see his laundry being washed on the Internet.

I believe the writer wrote an honest piece about a friend for whom he feels concern. And the environment where Mr. Pegoretti's bicycles are important is restricted to a rather "small" number of caring people. Small in quotes because nothing on the Internet is really small.

I can only hope the piece was written with a good intention. And if Mr. Pegoretti is going through a dark period in his private life, I wish him well. After all, no one who smokes that much can have the spirit of St. Francis d'Assis.

[SoCalSteve]

agreed and disagreed atmo.
this frame (and paint scheme), as is its luigino brother, is
not the bread and butter. it's a signature piece that gets folks
in the peg door. atmo, it's like the haute couture atelier around
the corner from a firm's pret-a-porter stand alone store. everyone
sees the buzz surrounding the fine stitching, and the petite mains,
and the skinny models, and the expensive price tag, but most of
us buy off the rack. the marcelo, the ble, and the others will all
benefit from the very few basquiat-ish frames that dario produces.
it's all very bijan and verdura, and i mean that as a compliment.

Is the BLE "off the rack"? With its paint scheme, oversized tubing (especially chainstays) and reinforced downtube, I must respectfully disagree with Mr atmo.

Steve

PS: The BLE is priced almost the same $$ as the new frame.

[atmo]

Is the BLE "off the rack"? With its paint scheme, oversized tubing (especially chainstays) and reinforced downtube, I must respectfully disagree with Mr atmo.

Steve

PS: The BLE is priced almost the same $$ as the new frame.
atmo mebbe i erred in my example, but the point is that the
other frames that are the mainstay, and are in the routine
pipeline that gita taps. the stuff that oftens serves to wow
folks into a trade show booth and/or stretch the buzz once
the roadies pack up and leave - this stuff is more akin to
the haute couture one-of-a-kind stuff that you see on the
runways as oppossed to hanging on the rack at the retailer.

[Serpico]

...

and FWIW, i think brendan's piece crosses a line it should not have crossed. brendan is a great guy. his heart is in the right place. but as every single one of us does, i think he had a lapse of judgement. an artist has a right to reveal their private life. i'm not sure others do. but if it was a "mistake", i think brendan's write-up was an error born of concern and compassion.

a lot of folks care about ya, round.


thank you so much for saying this. I have been a loyal customer of competitivecyclist for a couple years now and I talk them up every chance I get. Having said that, I think Quirk's product review cum intervention is WAY over the line.

seriously, tell us about the product--give us your opinion of the product. that's it. leave the man's personal life out of it--please.

you can tell us where he draws inspiration, but what saps his inspiration is none of our business.

[Archibald]

you haven't been had. it's business, not personal.
hyman roth always made money for his partners atmo.
Sorry Atmo, someone who cavalierly ****s with my emotions (not that I admit to having any) is not invited to sit at my table.

[atmo]

.

[Grant McLean]

thank you so much for saying this. I have been a loyal customer of competitivecyclist for a couple years now and I talk them up every chance I get. Having said that, I think Quirk's product review cum intervention is WAY over the line.

seriously, tell us about the product--give us your opinion of the product. that's it. leave the man's personal life out of it--please.

you can tell us where he draws inspiration, but what saps his inspiration is none of our business.

Another article on CC.com about a year ago got deleted. It was called something
like "10 things Cervelo doesn't want you to know". It was written after
they visited the Cervelo office in Toronto, and wrote about some of their
impressions. It was a good piece, but I think the title must have stood the
neck hairs on end over at Cervelo.

g

[atmo]

.

[round]

i dont like the paint job, myself.
the rest does not belong in an advertisement imho.

I don't know if the piece was written by Brendan, but if it was, I think that he's a great guy in that he has the ability to see beyond what is apparent and to see deep within my spirit. The author has written exactly what I feel and what I try to say, but can't explain well because of the language- and because sometimes our education kills the feelings and withholds the words in the mouth.

[davyt]

Being the schmuck that got this thread hijacked, I guess I feel compelled to take my turn at the pulpit. Don't worry, I'll be brief!

I don't know Dario well enough to be a confidant--we've only met once--but I do know that we'd be friends even if he didn't make bicycles.

I also don't know art from Garfunkel but the bike I saw in Las Vegas spoke to me loudly enough to get my undivided attention. After mine arrives, I aspire to ride it to within an inch of its life.
--
Davy

P.S. Dario, see you in San Jose! I'll probably bug you in the meantime!

P.P.S. While I don't profess to like it, I couldn't help but thinking that I was reading a blog on the Competitive Cyclist site. I suspect that we'll be seeing more and more of this type of marketing (web ad, bad?) in the future...

[Erik.Lazdins]

Another article on CC.com about a year ago got deleted. It was called something
like "10 things Cervelo doesn't want you to know". It was written after
they visited the Cervelo office in Toronto, and wrote about some of their
impressions. It was a good piece, but I think the title must have stood the
neck hairs on end over at Cervelo.

g


That was a good article and one of the reasons I watch Brendan's site closely. It's an additional source of "cool stuff to read". Brendan consistenly puts out good articles and I'm quite impressed by his writing ability.

I think there are 2 issues at play here, one being the Responsorium bicycle and it's HAND-PAINTED paint job. It could have been put out in Las Vegas with a solid paint scheme but it wasn't. The bike makes a bigger statement than that.
The second issue is Brendan's interpretation of seeing that bike, talking to Dario, and his talent for writing. Since the words flow through his pen, they are subject to his experiences and views. I think that's good.

I don't agree with all the content in the article, but that is not the point. It's his view and certainly cannot be lumped in with the myriad of other mamby-pamby politically correct bicycle articles filling magazines I no longer read. If it was put out there with the intent of facillitating discussion; Brendan has succeeded in that regard.

The article left me wishing for more information, and for wishing Dario peace and happiness.

I'm done now, thanks for reading.

[cadence90]

.
Where are these 2 images from?
I like them.

[atmo]

Where are these 2 images from?
I like them.
i collect out-of-context snipped texts from
within articles i read. i throw out the articles
and tear out/save the words that resonate.
very chance the gardener atmo.

[cadence90]

I don't know if the piece was written by Brendan, but if it was, I think that he's a great guy in that he has the ability to see beyond what is apparent and to see deep within my spirit. The author has written exactly what I feel and what I try to say, but can't explain well because of the language- and because sometimes our education kills the feelings and withholds the words in the mouth.
Thank you for the answer.

What you say about feelings being killed is certainly true, and there is too much of that in so much communication these days. I do think any description of bicycles which goes beyond the ad copy generated by in-house marketing departments is to be applauded. And I can understand that there is a personal relationship between yourself and Brendan, as human beings. He definitely can write very well.

Still, I am curious as to how you feel about the writing being presented as a sales device for your work. My feeling is that the allusions to Basquiat's/your life and its (certain) end are romanticizing to both a conjectural and an inappropriate degree for a commercial outlet, as an advertising tool. Given my own experience with artists, life and death, it leaves a bad and confused taste in my mouth, and it feels crass, if I can be frank.

Interestingly, the musings about the bicycle itself appear much less deep than the musings regarding hyptheses A, B, and C. If the sentiments expressed there were in a magazine article (or even if they were presented on a "Dario Pegoretti" page on the CC site) about you, the frame-builder and the man, then I think the piece is extraordinarily sensitive, perceptive, and well-written. As advertisement copy alone, I think it is out of place, and verging on romantic myth-building rather than direct expression. There is nothing wrong with "getting people in the door" as RS says. Still, some methods are more elegant than others, imho/atmo....

Apparently some people on this forum "know" you in some way or another. They express care, admiration, humanity. They also want to be associated with the man, not the label, and that is normal. Of course, then, this piece of writing "touches" them. But I am sure that many people who look to CC to buy a bicycle do not "know" you in any sense, nor might they be so interested in conjecture about the intimate details of one's personal life and troubles. Or, perhaps, they do not need certain events romanticized next to a price list. That is my opinion. As Ginger and others have written, they want to know about the bike. On the other hand, perhaps outside the context of the Serotta board this piece does not raise the same interest that it does here; that, I don't know.

(In ogni caso, mi auguro che ci possiamo incontrare a dicembre. Le scrivero' un email oggi. Col massimo rispetto....)

[cadence90]

i collect out-of-context snipped texts from
within articles i read. i throw out the articles
and tear out/save the words that resonate.
very chance the gardener atmo.
Well, they are very, very beautiful.
Context is both revelatory and never static, imho.

[atmo]

Well, they are very, very beautiful.
Context is both revelatory and never static, imho.
cool atmo

[cadence90]

cool atmo
or ride on, lol!

That blue is beautiful, reminds me of Arp's "Collage with Squares..." blue.

[atmo]

or ride on, lol!


riding works atmo

[swoop]

riding works atmo
u give good post.

[atmo]

u give good post.
i'm an aquarius atmo

[stevep]

i would have given up 2 moves earlier. atmo
wouldda saved time

[atmo]

i would have given up 2 moves earlier. atmo
wouldda saved time
atmo

[stevep]

less time to waste.