Steel Forks Versus Carbon Forks

[Sandy]

I have been entertaining the idea of getting an all steel CDA (that is what I call it), or possibly a lugged all steel bike. Back in 1998, when I was test riding bikes, the first Serotta that I rode was a lugged steel Atlanta. I really liked the bike. But in the test ride, I initially thought that the bike was not as comfortable as some other bikes that I had already ridden. I though that it was probably because of the steel fork on the bike. This was the first steel fork that I had ridden, I think. Later, I realized that part of the road that I rode on was somewhat rough, and perhaps the harshness of the ride was not a function of the fork at all.

I really like the look of a steel fork on a steel bike, especially on a lugged steel bike. So, I am asking herein the following- How does the comfort and road feel and handling of a steel fork compare to that of a carbon fork?

Thanks.


:) Spoon Sandy :)

[Elefantino]

Here's some good discussion (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=16219)

Me? Carbon gives you a little more stability going downhill. Descending Mt. Diablo is an adventure on my old Trek 760.

[Serotta PETE]

Sandy, get what you like. In talking to kelly this summer he is a steel guy BUT really likes the use of a carbon fork.

[Steve Hampsten]

This is just me, but to my mind there is no "better". Carbon and steel may be slightly different - I can't really tell, but what could make one "better" than the other is tough to see.

The carbon fork will most likely be a touch lighter, but you already knew that.

A good builder could make a steel fork as stiff or compliant as the customer wants.

I wouldn't sell a lugged frame without a steel fork for a whole bunch of reasons but YMMV.

[atmo]

Here's some good discussion (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=16219)


wow i forgot about that one.
there are some great posts there atmo.
i still think one needs to hone in further
and focus more on the maker than on
the material atmo. iirc (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=191004&postcount=50) bro.

[vaxn8r]

Sandy, I think the Atlanta is a harshest riding steel bike I have ever ridden. My other steel frames didn't have that same harshness and they all had steel forks. So ATMO, it wasn't the fork.

I rode a new Co-Motion last week. Steel frame and fork and it was anything but harsh. Very resilient. So that's what new steel is supposed to feel like!

Anyway, I don't think you can go wrong with a CF fork but if it were me getting the steel bike it would have a steel fork.

ps. You already have a couple of race bikes. Why don't you get the next one with eyelets and a longer wheelbase so you can do real fenders and larger tires? That's what I'm going to do. ATMO.

[J.Greene]

I So, I am asking herein the following- How does the comfort and road feel and handling of a steel fork compare to that of a carbon fork?

Sandy, I have a Hampsten Giro 88 found here (http://new.photos.yahoo.com/jonathan_adam_greene/album/576460762328040254) that has a steel fork. I prefer it to any carbon fork I have ridden. It is great on rough roads even cobbles. It's my favorite long distance bike as of now.

JG

[Sandy]

Here's some good discussion (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=16219)

Me? Carbon gives you a little more stability going downhill. Descending Mt. Diablo is an adventure on my old Trek 760.

Thanks for that thread. I have already read 60+ resposes on it, and I have to rest some.



Sandy

[Elefantino]

Sandy, I think the Atlanta is a harshest riding steel bike I have ever ridden. My other steel frames didn't have that same harshness and they all had steel forks. So ATMO, it wasn't the fork.

Holy moley!

The harshest ever? I thought mine rode better than my CSi.

YMMV.

[Louis]

When riding over a bump steel forks go "twang" and CF forks go "thud."

[bcm119]

ps. You already have a couple of race bikes. Why don't you get the next one with eyelets and a longer wheelbase so you can do real fenders and larger tires? That's what I'm going to do. ATMO.
Nor'wester? :)

[vaxn8r]

Holy moley!

The harshest ever? I thought mine rode better than my CSi.

YMMV.
Ever! :) At least of what I've ridden. Of course mine was built of "man" tubes. Not the girly ones yours was built with.

;)

[vaxn8r]

Nor'wester? :)
Possibly. Maybe. We'll see.

[Peter P.]

My friend just switched from steel to carbon. The area we ride in has lots of chip sealed roads-liquid tar is poured onto the road surface then a layer of fine gravel spread on top of it. He describes the carbon feel as something like muting the feel of the road, getting rid of the road information which isn't important, like the chip seal. He also describes it as very smooth. All of this relates to how bumps and road irregularities feel.

I, on the other hand, have always ridden steel forks and find that they provide more road feedback than above, but are not harsh, even with my lightweight 135lbs.

My road bike has a Tange #2 fork and my custom commuter has a non-decaled steel fork. Perhaps most telling of all is my mountain bike-it's an 853 frame with an IF rigid fork. You'd think an oversized, steel legged ATB fork would be harsh on the trail or road, but not so. I have nary a complaint about it.

[bcm119]

Possibly. Maybe. We'll see.
Sweeet. I've had my eye on one of those for a long time, but just can't pull the trigger. I'm really sick of riding my gunnar with those stupid canti brakes in the rain.

Let me know if they have a 2 for 1 deal. :rolleyes:

[72gmc]

I'm with you, bcm. Much as I like my current commuter, cantis don't really go with rain so well. My next bike will have "long reach" calipers.

Edit to stay topical: steel fork on this bike, steel fork on the next. I find that I prefer a steel fork to the carbons I've tried. I haven't tried a straight blade steel fork.

[Ken Robb]

living in San Diego I'm clearly no expert on rain riding but wouldn't the pad material make more difference than what kind of caliper pushes it against the rim?

[93legendti]

Sandy, I think the Atlanta is a harshest riding steel bike I have ever ridden. My other steel frames didn't have that same harshness and they all had steel forks. So ATMO, it wasn't the fork.

I rode a new Co-Motion last week. Steel frame and fork and it was anything but harsh. Very resilient. So that's what new steel is supposed to feel like!

Anyway, I don't think you can go wrong with a CF fork but if it were me getting the steel bike it would have a steel fork.

ps. You already have a couple of race bikes. Why don't you get the next one with eyelets and a longer wheelbase so you can do real fenders and larger tires? That's what I'm going to do. ATMO.

I had a 2004 CDA (sloping, 53.5cm, TT) with a carbon fork and have Weisan/Bill Bove's 1999 Atlanta (52.5cm TT) with Ginger's CSi fork. For me, the Atlanta is smoother than the CDA. Now, my steel 1999 Rapid Tour (55cm TT) with a steel fork is the smoothest of all 3 of these steel frames.

[bcm119]

living in San Diego I'm clearly no expert on rain riding but wouldn't the pad material make more difference than what kind of caliper pushes it against the rim?
Thats part of it, but the problem is more the design of cantis is just clunky and imprecise compared to calipers. If you go with a softer pad up front such as the pink koolstops, you risk fork chatter. Adjusting the toe-in can be a long, tedious process, and most cantis don't have very high tolerances in the pivot, so there is always some slop. It becomes a trade off between chatter and poor stopping power. And they look goofy, atmo. But other than that, they're fantastic! ;)

Back on topic- forks- I think weight is the only advantage of a carbon fork, so you have to decide how much you care about weight. ATMO, the ride of a nice steel fork is more inspiring, but noticeably heavier too.

[Ken Robb]

I better not let the 3 bikes I have with cantis read these comments about how they are supposed to mis-behave as they don't do any of the things you describe. Of course my brakes that require the least pressure to lock a wheel are the DA 10 speed on my Legend but then they don't allow 37mm tires as an option either.

[Elefantino]

Ever! :) At least of what I've ridden. Of course mine was built of "man" tubes. Not the girly ones yours was built with.

;)

Good thing I'm an ex-Duck or I'd tell everyone that you shave your tubes.

[vaxn8r]

Good thing I'm an ex-Duck or I'd tell everyone that you shave your tubes.
Yeah, so? My mechanic says it's OK as long as I always use a fresh blade.

[oldmill]

Sandy - Why not give the steel fork a try? If you don't like it, you can always switch out to a carbon fork and sell the steel. There will probably be plenty of buyers for it out there, including me. And while you're at it, do get some fender eyelets on it. That will up the value in this part of DC should you want to re-sell.

[Marcusaurelius]

I prefer steel. I have a steel fork on an older CSI and the ride is great. It rides just as well as my other road bike with a carbon fork.

[stackie]

I had my Vanilla roadie built with a Reynolds Ouzo Comp (wanted threadless steerer) and a custom Vanilla straight blade steel fork. Built bike up with Reynolds first. Rode a couple of months, then changed to the steel fork. Anyone want to buy a Reynolds Ouzo Comp with only a few months use? The Vanilla steel fork tracks much more precisely, and has no discernable increase in unpleasant road sensations.

Secondly, the straight blade steel fork is so much more aesthetically appropriate.

That's all I have to say on this subject.

Jon

[Eric E]

I've got a Ti rapid tour with both of the above forks as well as a wife with a Ti rapid tour made from the same tube set and a Kestrel EMS fork. One day I compared the ride of my bike, with the steel fork from a loaded tour, with the ride of my wife's bike over the same patch of road. It was different. The carbon fork muted the road vibration much better, but was harsher on the larger bumps. Then again, other forks might compare differently...

Eric

[William]

I've tried both and I like the feel of the steel forks better. And, after watching all the CF forks flex and chatter at the cross Nats last year, I told Zank I wanted steel on the Effin Cross Bike.



William

[93legendti]

I have been entertaining the idea of getting an all steel CDA (that is what I call it), or possibly a lugged all steel bike. Back in 1998, when I was test riding bikes, the first Serotta that I rode was a lugged steel Atlanta. I really liked the bike. But in the test ride, I initially thought that the bike was not as comfortable as some other bikes that I had already ridden. I though that it was probably because of the steel fork on the bike. This was the first steel fork that I had ridden, I think. Later, I realized that part of the road that I rode on was somewhat rough, and perhaps the harshness of the ride was not a function of the fork at all.

I really like the look of a steel fork on a steel bike, especially on a lugged steel bike. So, I am asking herein the following- How does the comfort and road feel and handling of a steel fork compare to that of a carbon fork?

Thanks.


:) Spoon Sandy :)

Sandy, what color is your CSi? It has an F1, right? My suggesstion, try a steel fork on your CSi and see how you like the road. I have Dennis Cotcamp's NOS (I think) black steel fork from his size 58 CSi which his Estate is selling. Serial number C CS 58 01961 R. $100 plus shipping--what do you have to lose? :)

[zap]

I have been entertaining the idea of getting an all steel CDA (that is what I call it), or possibly a lugged all steel bike. Back in 1998, when I was test riding bikes, the first Serotta that I rode was a lugged steel Atlanta. I really liked the bike. But in the test ride, I initially thought that the bike was not as comfortable as some other bikes that I had already ridden. I though that it was probably because of the steel fork on the bike. This was the first steel fork that I had ridden, I think. Later, I realized that part of the road that I rode on was somewhat rough, and perhaps the harshness of the ride was not a function of the fork at all.

I really like the look of a steel fork on a steel bike, especially on a lugged steel bike. So, I am asking herein the following- How does the comfort and road feel and handling of a steel fork compare to that of a carbon fork?

Thanks.


:) Spoon Sandy :)

Sandy, you're not wrong. The Atlanta was one of the harshest riding bikes I've ever ridden.

I don't think a carbon fork would have helped that frame a whole lot. It would have soaked up some of the high frequency vibes, but that's probably about it.

If your looking for another steel frame, go easy on the tube stiffness. I have something in mind that's lugged, comes with a steel fork and looks really sharp. Fellow who builds it is pretty sharp too. But I'll give you my recommendation off line :p

[mtflycaster]

Speaking from personal experience, my Atlanta is very comfortable and not at all harsh. It is a 56x56 with F1 carbon fork. My Hors C (now sold) was nice too, but different...a little quicker steering maybe, and Ti just feels different.

My Kirk is the overall winner, though. Steel fork. A bit more road buzz than the Atlanta actually, but the Kirk handles, esp. at higher speeds, like I prefer. No twitchy steering like the Hors, and super stable. It is remarkably confidence inspiring. Dave Kirk built it the way I wanted it. Serotta could probably build me a custom that would handle the same, too. But Dave K has also said that choice of materials plays a role in handling, not just the bike's geometry.

I conclude that there are lots of factors at work, many of which have been discussed here before. Tires & wheels, e.g. But I also think that things like frame size, fit and body weight play a big role. It is not just about the particular model frame, IMHO. It all ends up being a VERY personal thing, and a custom gives you the best shot at achieving your goals.

[vaxn8r]

Speaking from personal experience, my Atlanta is very comfortable and not at all harsh. It is a 56x56 with F1 carbon fork. My Hors C (now sold) was nice too, but different...a little quicker steering maybe, and Ti just feels different....



I conclude that there are lots of factors at work, many of which have been discussed here before. Tires & wheels, e.g. But I also think that things like frame size, fit and body weight play a big role. It is not just about the particular model frame, IMHO. It all ends up being a VERY personal thing, and a custom gives you the best shot at achieving your goals.
I agree with you as we can only speak from personal experience. But I did discuss my observations of my Atlanta with one of the busiest Serotta dealers in the nation and she told me she personally didn't love the Atlanta because it it came with a heavier TT(?) compared with the CSi which in her view made them ride harsher. YMMV. And, it's conceivable all Atlantas were not created equally.

Also, I tried 3 different wheelsets on my Atlanta and varying tire pressures. None of these changed my opinion of the ride quality. Did I hate the bike? No I still loved it. It just beat me up on my typical 60-80 milers. Great for anything under 35-40 miles. Handling was awesome!