Recommend me a used full-steel road-racer to find..

[Clean39T]

I think I still have a bit of time before my number gets called by Mr. Sadoff and I have to make a decision on how I want my steel roadie* frame/fork done up...so I'm thinking about hunting a good used model to get a feel for things I may want the same/different in the custom.

This thread (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=220876&highlight=steel+race+bikes&page=3) has some good ideas.

And this Vetta (https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/75b2e74debfd4fc3b9c27199f6813fcf/5BC9DF0F/t51.2885-15/e35/33142844_370346000142442_909480997332975616_n.jpg? se=7&ig_cache_key=MTc4ODYyODMxMjQ3OTIyOTE4NQ%3D%3D.2) is my current design inspiration. Traditional geometry, 23/25c tires, steel fork, level TT, 1" steerer, and custom stem.

So, any recommendations for models and years of steel rigs to hunt down that are decently affordable in the current market?

Steelman, Tesch, Kelly, certain Serotta models...what else???

Bonus points if you have one in my size and want to sell it cheap.

Double bonus points if you have one in my size and want to loan it out to a good home for a while :eek:

.
.
.
.


* still a chance I'll instead opt for a cantilever cross rig, 29er all-mountain hardtail, or something else fun like that...but the RL team-tig has sentimental pulls for me, so it's probably going to be one of those...

[Epicus07]

Just out of curiosity, you have a Kirk Disc cross....why are you considering a cantilever cross bike?

I was hunting for a disc cross bike and "settled" for a custom steel Davidson with cantilevers. stripped down for a rebuild, should be completed this weekend.

[msl819]

My Serotta CRL and Merckx MXL might be a good start. If you lived local I’d be glad to let you ride both, since you dont, I am glad to answer questions. Both are your size. I’d sell the Merckx, not the CRL

[msl819]

I have both an original MXL fork and a Winter built threadless fork for the Merckx, do you plan to run threadless or quill set up?

[bicycletricycle]

We will do no such thing! You have already ridden one of everything.
monostay mondonico, there is a nice one on eBay
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F22 2922599522

[Clean39T]

My Serotta CRL and Merckx MXL might be a good start. If you lived local I’d be glad to let you ride both, since you dont, I am glad to answer questions. Both are your size. I’d sell the Merckx, not the CRL

I have both an original MXL fork and a Winter built threadless fork for the Merckx, do you plan to run threadless or quill set up?

PM me deets on the MXL (guessing it's this one (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=113650&highlight=Leader)?). I had one early last year that was 61cm w the 58.5TT - I'd ideally go a bit bigger this time around, but the 61cm was pretty close...

[Clean39T]

We will do no such thing! You have already ridden one of everything.
monostay mondonico, there is a nice one on eBay
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F22 2922599522

That's no monostay, but it is beautiful, and I'd forgotten about it...belongs to our friend Mr. Maddox too, so it'd be even more affordable than shown on the Bay...hmm...

[Clean39T]

Just out of curiosity, you have a Kirk Disc cross....why are you considering a cantilever cross bike?

I was hunting for a disc cross bike and "settled" for a custom steel Davidson with cantilevers. stripped down for a rebuild, should be completed this weekend.

Old school cool for variety - not as a replacement..

[AngryScientist]

i humbly submit three items for consideration, though at least two will be difficult to find on the used market.

1) Steel Spectrum. There is a short but distinguished list, but i would venture to say that no one knows bicycle geometry better than TK.

2) Ritchey Road Logic. Sweet bicycles.

3) Serotta CSI. Often described as one of the finest steel semi-production bikes ever made.


There you have my suggestions, between Ben, Tom and Tom: there is a lot of expertise in putting together a bicycle there.

[Ken Robb]

A stock 62cm CSi would be hard to beat although a C III or Couer d' Arcier (was that the correct name for the steel model with carbon seat stays?) would all ride much the same.

Oh, also any Waterford/Gunnar in the right size.

[campy man]

i humbly submit three items for consideration, though at least two will be difficult to find on the used market.

1) Steel Spectrum. There is a short but distinguished list, but i would venture to say that no one knows bicycle geometry better than TK.

2) Ritchey Road Logic. Sweet bicycles.

3) Serotta CSI. Often described as one of the finest steel semi-production bikes ever made.


There you have my suggestions, between Ben, Tom and Tom: there is a lot of expertise in putting together a bicycle there.

Never ridden #1 or #2 but it's hard to imagine steel riding any better than a Csi :banana:

[Clean39T]

Seems like this one would be pretty hard to beat on a dollars per smiles basis: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=226262&highlight=ritchey

And it seems like quite a classic race-oriented geometry that would provide a good comparison test... Would prefer threadless, but I think I still have an adapter sitting around.

[93KgBike]

:)

http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz167/andysti1/IMG_6161_zpsqzir0ldl.jpg

[KJMUNC]

That Ritchey above is pretty sweet.....but if I had $1k and wanted form/style WITH my function, I'd go with some sweet tutti-frutti goodness. Killer price for this set-up for $1k.....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eddy-Merckx-corsa-extra-Team-Weinmann-edition/113198554596?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[Clean39T]

i humbly submit three items for consideration, though at least two will be difficult to find on the used market.

1) Steel Spectrum. There is a short but distinguished list, but i would venture to say that no one knows bicycle geometry better than TK.

2) Ritchey Road Logic. Sweet bicycles.

3) Serotta CSI. Often described as one of the finest steel semi-production bikes ever made.

There you have my suggestions, between Ben, Tom and Tom: there is a lot of expertise in putting together a bicycle there.

A stock 62cm CSi would be hard to beat although a C III or Couer d' Arce (was that the correct name for the steel model with carbon seat stays?) would all ride much the same.

Oh, also any Waterford/Gunnar in the right size.

Never ridden #1 or #2 but it's hard to imagine steel riding any better than a Csi :banana:

A CSi, Spectrum, C-III, or CRL would all work - so would a Waterford or Paramount - but I'm afraid the CSi or Spectrum would probably be too nice to qualify as a tester. I kind of have the exact opposite requirements of most right now - I want something racy and for skinny tires, that's long/low - so maybe if one of those is out there it'll be going for less than the usual rate.. Jeff N's Bedford, for example, would be perfect if it was sized differently. I doubt I'll find something that modern that was built with a steel fork and built in long/low race geometry.

[Clean39T]

:)

http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz167/andysti1/IMG_6161_zpsqzir0ldl.jpg

Did you buy that from AndySTI? Looks very familiar...

[AngryScientist]

to qualify as a tester. .


hey dan,


not a snarky response, but food for thought.

it may be a good trust exercise for you to NOT micromanage your next custom build and just give the builder, who has tons of experience, some basic parameters of how you want the bike to ride and let him do his magic. you may just be pleasantly surprised if you give up a few millimeters of control...

[bicycletricycle]

That's no monostay, but it is beautiful, and I'd forgotten about it...belongs to our friend Mr. Maddox too, so it'd be even more affordable than shown on the Bay...hmm...

Made you look, I had a lot of good miles on a mondonico, I like that gold one.

How about a fillet brazed moser leader ax. True you need a quill seatpost but the paint is always great and I suspect they would look radical with a modern build. I had a pink and purple one once and it ripped (went fast).

[jtbadge]

Made you look, I had a lot of good miles on a mondonico, I like that gold one.

How about a fillet brazed moser leader ax. True you need a quill seatpost but the paint is always great and I suspect they would look radical with a modern build. I had a pink and purple one once and it ripped (went fast).

A Leader AX definitely looks sweet with a modern build.

https://www.pedalroom.com/bike/moser-leader-ax-29410

https://www.pedalroom.com/p/moser-leader-ax-29410_20.jpg

[bicycletricycle]

Always wanted a 00’s scapin, Deda tubing and wound up forks looking good. Been thinking of buying this one.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F11 3170858551

[bicycletricycle]

A Leader AX definitely looks sweet with a modern build.

https://www.pedalroom.com/bike/moser-leader-ax-29410

https://www.pedalroom.com/p/moser-leader-ax-29410_20.jpg

That looks f’n great

[Clean39T]

hey dan,


not a snarky response, but food for thought.

it may be a good trust exercise for you to NOT micromanage your next custom build and just give the builder, who has tons of experience, some basic parameters of how you want the bike to ride and let him do his magic. you may just be pleasantly surprised if you give up a few millimeters of control...

I get it, not snarky at all. It's just been a while since I've ridden something with full-on race geometry in an all-steel get-up and I want to give that a whirl before locking in on having one designed for me that fits those parameters.

[AngryScientist]

I get it, not snarky at all. It's just been a while since I've ridden something with full-on race geometry in an all-steel get-up and I want to give that a whirl before locking in on having one designed for me that fits those parameters.

makes sense :beer:

[Clean39T]

Always wanted a 00’s scapin, Deda tubing and wound up forks looking good. Been thinking of buying this one.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F11 3170858551

The Moser and Scapin are both very cool. There was a Seahawks green/blue Scapin for sale not long ago that went cheap - EL-OS tubing too..

[bicycletricycle]

Just tell him Columbus max and I want to go fast

https://goo.gl/images/84iofH

[jtbadge]

Just tell him Columbus max and I want to go fast

https://goo.gl/images/84iofH

100% this.

This is my plan if my aluminum Lobster ever dies.

[Clean39T]

Just tell him Columbus max and I want to go fast

https://goo.gl/images/84iofH

Trust me, I already have that one bookmarked :banana:

[Clean39T]

100% this.

This is my plan if my aluminum Lobster ever dies.

If your Lobster dies, huh? Say no more...

https://youtu.be/DNj1dXi-z0M?t=1m40s

[Peter P.]

If you get a bike built for cantilever brakes, it may have stiffer than normal fork blades and stays to resist brake arm forces. That may result in a stiffer ride than you expected in a road machine. Also, you may have fork chatter because of the front cantilever; a V-brake up front would cure that. Just an FYI and something to discuss with Paul while ordering.

To me, no one has a patent on geometry and there's no secret geometry that's better than others. Hopefully you've been paying attention to the specs of what you've ridden in the past, and liked- put those numbers down on paper.

If you're going with a steel fork and caliper brakes, ask for the brakes to be set at maximum reach, and you may have to get slightly longer chainstays. The result is you'll be able to fit 28mm tires with ease. I had this done with my Soulcraft and in fact, I can squeeze 32's in there, and I have 42cm chainstays.

[mtechnica]

I still have a bit of time before my number gets called by Mr. Sadoff and I have to make a decision on how I want my steel roadie* frame/fork done up...so I'm thinking about hunting a good used model to get a feel for things I may want the same/different in the custom.


*** this is crazy, trust your builder or don't. Consider a carbon fork, it is 2018. If you must have 1" get a Columbus minimal. If you don't even know what exactly you want WHY are you getting a custom bike?????

And double *** if you might actually want a cross bike???? lol... dude you need to just figure out what you want instead of giving this poor builder heartburn, you probably won't be satisfied with anything he builds even if it's incredible.

Serious answer I guess, get an 80's Merckx or colnago and you'll probably just want the same thing but better, which you can't really have unless you go carbon.

[Clean39T]

If you get a bike built for cantilever brakes, it may have stiffer than normal fork blades and stays to resist brake arm forces. That may result in a stiffer ride than you expected in a road machine. Also, you may have fork chatter because of the front cantilever; a V-brake up front would cure that. Just an FYI and something to discuss with Paul while ordering.

To me, no one has a patent on geometry and there's no secret geometry that's better than others. Hopefully you've been paying attention to the specs of what you've ridden in the past, and liked- put those numbers down on paper.

If you're going with a steel fork and caliper brakes, ask for the brakes to be set at maximum reach, and you may have to get slightly longer chainstays. The result is you'll be able to fit 28mm tires with ease. I had this done with my Soulcraft and in fact, I can squeeze 32's in there, and I have 42cm chainstays.

Sorry, may have mixed things up a bit...

Canti brakes would only be an alternate design if I didn't do a roadie and instead got a classic cross bike done up. And I don't need/want one for bigger tires and such. My Kirk is going to have room for that and is my all day rider with longer chainstays, room for bigger tires and fenders, etc.

I'm specifically looking for a tight, stiff, long-low road machine for racing and training. Something impractical and fun :cool:.

[msl819]

Planning to run threadless on the Lobster, but figured I'd be asking Paul to build me one for that.

PM me deets on the MXL (guessing it's this one (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=113650&highlight=Leader)?). I had one early last year that was 61cm w the 58.5TT - I'd ideally go a bit bigger this time around, but the 61cm was pretty close...

That’s the one so maybe a size too small. Looks like you have settled your size debate one the larger side of your trials and not the smaller. I will say, nice steel with wide rims and 25s set properly is just about perfect. The MXL with Belgium+ and Veloflex 25s was sublime on our fast ride tonight. I like the threadless set up mostly because I prefer to run modern bars.

[Hilltopperny]

My list of steel bikes to try out from my experience would go CSI, Atlanta or any other similar Serotta. A nice steel Paramount pdg series. A Giordana Spica or other Billato brothers built steel bike.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Clean39T]

*** this is crazy, trust your builder or don't. Consider a carbon fork, it is 2018. If you must have 1" get a Columbus minimal. If you don't even know what exactly you want WHY are you getting a custom bike?????

And double *** if you might actually want a cross bike???? lol... dude you need to just figure out what you want instead of giving this poor builder heartburn, you probably won't be satisfied with anything he builds even if it's incredible.

Serious answer I guess, get an 80's Merckx or colnago and you'll probably just want the same thing but better, which you can't really have unless you go carbon.

Huh? Because life is short and bikes are fun.

I'm getting one from Paul because I've wanted to get one from Paul for over a decade.

Getting a custom is not just for those who have morphological oddities, and it certainly isn't about getting the lightest or most aero rig out there (in most cases). Some of us just want to support independent builders, or like custom paint, or just like having something different than what's out there off the shelf or on the auction block.

An 80's Merckx or Colnago would be fun, but neither will have modern tubing, threadless steerers, appropriate spacing, geometry I want, or little niceties like headtube mounted housing stops.

I'll edit the original post to make it more clear that a cross bike is an alternative option, not a "hey, make me a road bike that's also a cross bike" option. That would be stupid. I'm making a decision on what I generally want and then talking to Paul about what refinements he recommends. That holds true whether the conversation starts around a cross bike, road bike, or 29er.

[Ernesto]

A Steelman Stage Race would fit the bill. I had one with straight blade steel fork and it was an awesome ride.

What about this Ritchey Chicane? I have a Road Logic from the 90s and it's also sweet.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=2409265

[Clean39T]

A Steelman Stage Race would fit the bill. I had one with straight blade steel fork and it was an awesome ride.

What about this Ritchey Chicane? I have a Road Logic from the 90s and it's also sweet.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=2409265

I think you're right. If only I had a time-machine to go back and get this one...https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=200375&highlight=steelman... I actually bid on it on eBay before Eric got it - iirc. Eric, any idea if the gent who bought that guy is using it?

Going to talk to Mistermo about that Chicane...

[Ernesto]

I think you're right. If only I had a time-machine to go back and get this one...https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=200375&highlight=steelman... I actually bid on it on eBay before Eric got it - iirc. Eric, any idea if the gent who bought that guy is using it?

Going to talk to Mistermo about that Chicane...


Right on! Here was my Steelman:
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2291076&postcount=74

[mtechnica]

An 80's Merckx or Colnago would be fun, but neither will have modern tubing, threadless steerers, appropriate spacing, geometry I want, or little niceties like headtube mounted housing stops.


I've heard enough, enjoy your custom road bike, lol! Hope it rides 1/2 as good as my 1982 colnago.

[Clean39T]

I've heard enough, enjoy your custom road bike, lol! Hope it rides 1/2 as good as my 1982 colnago.I do have plans to build one a bit more retro roadie one of these days. That's the fun of all this. There's no end to the joy of riding bikes of all stripes :)

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[charliedid]

This is the weirdest thread.

[Clean39T]

This is the weirdest thread.

It's entertaining, and slightly odd. Kind of my MO.

[mtechnica]

I'm not trying to be mean I'm just saying if you want the best riding possible racing bike made from steel it would be a Colnago or Merckx made with better materials. Just IMHO. Saying that's not the geometry you want is basically saying you want worse geometry than the best rider in human history rode, for some reason, unbeknownst to me.

And how I understood the thread, was that you wanted to ride other bikes to inform the custom builder on what you wanted. Well, might as well ride the best of what is available then request better materials, which would be better frame tubing and a carbon fork. You can disagree all you want, that's fine. But if you want the best possible racing bike.....

And don't get me started on long and low or I will post a picture of my 1982 colnago which is probably longer and lower than you would like!

Serottas are good but NO BETTER than a Merckx or Colnago! there is no "magic" in the geometry.

[mtechnica]

it may be a good trust exercise for you to NOT micromanage your next custom build and just give the builder, who has tons of experience, some basic parameters of how you want the bike to ride and let him do his magic. you may just be pleasantly surprised if you give up a few millimeters of control...

End of discussion?

[charliedid]

It's entertaining, and slightly odd. Kind of my MO.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

:p:):eek:

[Mike V]

http://www.luckyduckoakland.com/bikes/land-shark-frame-fork-60cm

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/571933dbe3214007f06d3695/5892d898e3df28b7566ebea4/58a7318059cc681635650ffd/1487352221494/IMG_7090.JPG?format=300w

[bicycletricycle]

People can get frustrated over almost anything.

When I was a kid I remember seeing those little steelman adds in the back of mountain bike action and always wanting one.

[jtbadge]

http://www.luckyduckoakland.com/bikes/land-shark-frame-fork-60cm

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/571933dbe3214007f06d3695/5892d898e3df28b7566ebea4/58a7318059cc681635650ffd/1487352221494/IMG_7090.JPG?format=300w

That kicks serious ass. I think Dan's looking for a steel fork, though.

[Andy sti]

I have a long and low steel frame I may not need. It does have a carbon fork though. It’s racey and it rips!

[Clean39T]

People can get frustrated over almost anything.

When I was a kid I remember seeing those little steelman adds in the back of mountain bike action and always wanting one.

That kicks serious ass. I think Dan's looking for a steel fork, though.

That does kick ass, but it's a little loud for my sensibilities even if I was considering such a beast. I've never seen a Landshark with that much tubing manipulation though. Those chainstays are very Speedvagenesque...or whoever did it first...

[Clean39T]

I'm not trying to be mean I'm just saying if you want the best riding possible racing bike made from steel it would be a Colnago or Merckx made with better materials. Just IMHO. Saying that's not the geometry you want is basically saying you want worse geometry than the best rider in human history rode, for some reason, unbeknownst to me.

And how I understood the thread, was that you wanted to ride other bikes to inform the custom builder on what you wanted. Well, might as well ride the best of what is available then request better materials, which would be better frame tubing and a carbon fork. You can disagree all you want, that's fine. But if you want the best possible racing bike.....

And don't get me started on long and low or I will post a picture of my 1982 colnago which is probably longer and lower than you would like!

Serottas are good but NO BETTER than a Merckx or Colnago! there is no "magic" in the geometry.

All good my friend. I hope I do avail myself of the opportunity to ride something emblematic of that golden era - not next, but someday soon...

[bicycletricycle]

http://www.luckyduckoakland.com/bikes/land-shark-frame-fork-60cm

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/571933dbe3214007f06d3695/5892d898e3df28b7566ebea4/58a7318059cc681635650ffd/1487352221494/IMG_7090.JPG?format=300w

Is that place too cool for pricing?

[Clean39T]

Uh, oh. Change in script. It looks like I'm not too far back in line now and need to be making decisions sooner than later. So, this whole "try another one out to inform the next one" may not be happening.

The witty banter and recommendations have been good for my decisioning though, so I appreciate all y'all sharing your leisure time with me so generously.

:beer:

[doomridesout]

You want a Della Santa or a Chris Kvale.

[Clean39T]

You want a Della Santa or a Chris Kvale.

Eventually, yes. DS may be a 2019 project. But it's going to be hard to find space for them all..

[jtbadge]

Is that place too cool for pricing?

It says $1350. But they may be too cool to post any measurements.

[PNW]

I don’t think you will ever find a bike you’re completely content with...you’ve ridden so many, owned so many, and seem to find flaws in every bike rather than just riding and enjoying the miles. I mean, that’s where the forum can become a hole where all you do is buy, sell, and post...rather than log miles on the AMAZING bikes you’ve owned. I mean, do you even know what geometry you need in a bike? It’s great to give these builders the business but not even the best will be able to satisfy what you’re wanting at this point. Unfortunately I’m not sure if you even know what you want or what you’re doing? Lol it’s a whirlwind. You wanted to unload all of your Campy stuff...downsizing for a move....hoarding two groups for more builds...lol talking about picking up a new build in 2019 while waiting on a custom from one of the best?

You have much more experience about bikes than I do but the only advice I can give is...go RIDE. Don’t waste away your time on a forum talking about bikes, selling stuff, etc. If you have a Kirk cross, why are you wanting a potential bike that will do the same?

[ChristianWong]

But it's going to be hard to find space for them all..

Call me when the floodgates open.

[weisan]

http://alicehui.com/bike/CorsaExtra/P1060169_r.JPG

[weisan]

Clean pal asked for help, give it to him!

Jack's Zanc

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=33823

[DG24]

I've recently been riding a late 90's Lemond Buenos Aires equipped with Chorus 11.

1 inch steerer. Long. Cheap. Originally equipped with a threaded steel fork, although I have substituted a carbon one in it's place.

That should check several of your boxes. A Zurich is the same frame with an original carbon fork.

[charliedid]

Uh, oh. Change in script. It looks like I'm not too far back in line now and need to be making decisions sooner than later. So, this whole "try another one out to inform the next one" may not be happening.

The witty banter and recommendations have been good for my decisioning though, so I appreciate all y'all sharing your leisure time with me so generously.

:beer:

WHEW Thank God!

The Rock Lobster doesn't need a stand in.

[Clean39T]

I've recently been riding a late 90's Lemond Buenos Aires equipped with Chorus 11.

1 inch steerer. Long. Cheap. Originally equipped with a threaded steel fork, although I have substituted a carbon one in it's place.

That should check several of your boxes. A Zurich is the same frame with an original carbon fork.I had one of those back in the day and sold them when I worked at a Lemond LBS. They're great bikes. It's a shame folks these days can't walk into a bike shop and walk out with something like that (other than a few exceptions...).

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[FlashUNC]

You've ridden a metric ton of bikes.

You know what you want. Just talk to Paul when your turn is up and all will be well.

Oh, and seems like you'll be getting one of the first frames outta the new shop to boot.

[Clean39T]

I don’t think you will ever find a bike you’re completely content with...you’ve ridden so many, owned so many, and seem to find flaws in every bike rather than just riding and enjoying the miles. I mean, that’s where the forum can become a hole where all you do is buy, sell, and post...rather than log miles on the AMAZING bikes you’ve owned. I mean, do you even know what geometry you need in a bike? It’s great to give these builders the business but not even the best will be able to satisfy what you’re wanting at this point. Unfortunately I’m not sure if you even know what you want or what you’re doing? Lol it’s a whirlwind. You wanted to unload all of your Campy stuff...downsizing for a move....hoarding two groups for more builds...lol talking about picking up a new build in 2019 while waiting on a custom from one of the best?

You have much more experience about bikes than I do but the only advice I can give is...go RIDE. Don’t waste away your time on a forum talking about bikes, selling stuff, etc. If you have a Kirk cross, why are you wanting a potential bike that will do the same?

T, buddy, I ride pretty much every single day...except yesterday, too much damn smoke in the air...and I enjoy all the miles...more have gone by under my tires this year than any in the past. I also enjoy wrenching on bikes and talking about bikes and researching obscure bike stuff. It's all part of the hobby for me. I'm not losing sleep. This is FUN. Hence the light-hearted responses to some interesting comments in this thread...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Clean39T]

That was a great read! You are the master librarian of aged PL content :)

[emoji481]
Clean pal asked for help, give it to him!

Jack's Zanc

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=33823

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[Clean39T]

I have. And I do. It's the road race bike he was building twenty years ago. Back before people thought all quivers had to be killed...
You've ridden a metric ton of bikes.

You know what you want. Just talk to Paul when your turn is up and all will be well.

Oh, and seems like you'll be getting one of the first frames outta the new shop to boot.

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[MisterMurray]

What about a Cervelo Prodigy

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e0/fe/b9/e0feb9946cc3f827954121a76ef9fd2a.jpg

[semdoug]

Late to the party, but has anyone mentioned Dave Moulton Fuso. Not your size but here is an example from my local Craigslist. There is also a few on eBay. When visiting my parents in FL during the late 90s early 2000s a local shop had one in their rental fleet, pretty decent ride. If I remember correctly it was marketed as a working man's budget oriented racer.

https://sarasota.craigslist.org/bik/d/dave-moulton-fuso/6666175544.html

[Clean39T]

Hell yeah. I had a Super Prodigy in '03 - great bike! It had a Columbus Muscle fork iirc..
What about a Cervelo Prodigy

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e0/fe/b9/e0feb9946cc3f827954121a76ef9fd2a.jpg

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[Clean39T]

There are a couple sweet Fuso (Fusi?) on the Bay right now that are close to my size, but not quite. They're on the list too. An Eisentraut would also be sweet. Plus Tesch. But at some point I'm just listing every great steel bike from 20-30yrs ago... Guess I need to start a foundation and rent warehouse space.
Late to the party, but has anyone mentioned Dave Moulton Fuso. Not your size but here is an example from my local Craigslist. There is also a few on eBay. When visiting my parents in FL during the late 90s early 2000s a local shop had one in their rental fleet, pretty decent ride. If I remember correctly it was marketed as a working man's budget oriented racer.

https://sarasota.craigslist.org/bik/d/dave-moulton-fuso/6666175544.html

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[jamesdak]

I've recently been riding a late 90's Lemond Buenos Aires equipped with Chorus 11.

1 inch steerer. Long. Cheap. Originally equipped with a threaded steel fork, although I have substituted a carbon one in it's place.

That should check several of your boxes. A Zurich is the same frame with an original carbon fork.

Yep, impossible to go wrong with a Lemond!

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166790982.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/167016672.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/129693889.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166138354.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/163817826.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/163655066.jpg

[jr59]

There are a couple sweet Fuso (Fusi?) on the Bay right now that are close to my size, but not quite. They're on the list too. An Eisentraut would also be sweet. Plus Tesch. But at some point I'm just listing every great steel bike from 20-30yrs ago... Guess I need to start a foundation and rent warehouse space.


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His bike fit a little different.

[Clean39T]

Yep, impossible to go wrong with a Lemond!

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166790982.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/167016672.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/129693889.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166138354.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/163817826.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/163655066.jpgI'll take a #4 and a #6, super-sized.

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[semdoug]

Ha, our daughter's bedroom has turned into bike storage. One positive of being empty nesters I guess.

[jr59]

A lot of good stuff mentioned here. You should have bought the Sachs.

Outside of that, I would look for a ELOS Frame with race geo.

[bob heinatz]

Clean 39t has always posted positive and fun comments. He has gone thur more bikes in the past that I can keep track of. The best part is Dan seems to really enjoy the total package of our hobby. Riding, wrenching and hunting for the next bike to try. What is not to like? Stay passionate about our hobby and continue to have fun. My only complaint is that you are not my seize and since I also live in Oregon I could be enjoying some of your herd.

[StanleySteamer]

Add Marinoni to your list.

[AngryScientist]

another key place to look for inspiration in this genre of bikes is the work of Dario P, for the various race bikes he made over the years. I dont mean the extended head tube bikes - i mean the real race bikes he made for pros under various ghost names. there are quite a few out there, and darios bikes have carried quite a few professionals to the podium, as far as i know.

https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/images/News/Dario%20Pegoretti.jpg?itok=scPFhaw_

[Ken Robb]

I had a blue Zurich with Rolf wheels and triple 9 speed Ultegra like one of these pix.

[jamesdak]

another key place to look for inspiration in this genre of bikes is the work of Dario P, for the various race bikes he made over the years. I dont mean the extended head tube bikes - i mean the real race bikes he made for pros under various ghost names. there are quite a few out there, and darios bikes have carried quite a few professionals to the podium, as far as i know.


So true. The best of all my bikes in my eyes (and butt) is my Giordana XL Super. Something magical about how all three of my Giordana's ride yet the XL is ever more superlative! Dario did the design on these and even made a few of the earlier ones himself according to Gita sources.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/164621709.jpg

The other two I have are really, really good also!

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/165104779.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/167800611.jpg

[Lionel]

My Sachs is for sale. If fits you. You will never need another steel bike after that. I had many, many steel bikes, none were better.

[93KgBike]

I also enjoy wrenching on bikes and talking about bikes and researching obscure bike stuff. It's all part of the hobby for me. I'm not losing sleep. This is FUN.

That is the truth, brother!

[Clean39T]

So true. The best of all my bikes in my eyes (and butt) is my Giordana XL Super. Something magical about how all three of my Giordana's ride yet the XL is ever more superlative! Dario did the design on these and even made a few of the earlier ones himself according to Gita sources.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/164621709.jpg

The other two I have are really, really good also!

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/165104779.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/165104779.jpg

Any geo tables floating around for those that you've been able to find? Just curious how close/far off of his more recent work they are...

[Clean39T]

My Sachs is for sale. If fits you. You will never need another steel bike after that. I had many, many steel bikes, none were better.

Proportions aren't quite right for me, but it is a very nice looking frameset...not that I can afford it anyway :rolleyes:

[Lionel]

Proportions aren't quite right for me, but it is a very nice looking frameset...not that I can afford it anyway :rolleyes:

I am sure they are perfect for you 61x58.5. You can ask Paul to build you something else :)

[KarlC]

I'll take a #4 and a #6, super-sized.

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http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/163655066.jpg


I'll take a #6 as is !

.

[FlashUNC]

I have. And I do. It's the road race bike he was building twenty years ago. Back before people thought all quivers had to be killed...


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If it must be classic steel race on a budget that will give guidance for Paul's build, then Della Santa all the way.

Its what I based my discussion with Paul for my alloy frame on, he loves Roland's bikes and how they ride, and was a great foundation for the discussion I had with Paul.

Come down East Bay way and this one's yours to ride around while my fat butt gets dropped up Toyonal.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1680/24956099662_f842562e42_b.jpg

[jamesdak]

Any geo tables floating around for those that you've been able to find? Just curious how close/far off of his more recent work they are...

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/165366180.jpg

[bicycletricycle]

I had a 2000 something be Rosa neo primato that was great. Molteni paint, Lugged and Steel threadless fork. It fits into your narrow category I think.

[Clean39T]

If it must be classic steel race on a budget that will give guidance for Paul's build, then Della Santa all the way.

Its what I based my discussion with Paul for my alloy frame on, he loves Roland's bikes and how they ride, and was a great foundation for the discussion I had with Paul.

Come down East Bay way and this one's yours to ride around while my fat butt gets dropped up Toyonal.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1680/24956099662_f842562e42_b.jpg

That stem - those tires - the paint - :hello:

I appreciate the offer - doubt I'll be able to take you up on it in the next few weeks, but hopefully before the year is out!

[Clean39T]

I am sure they are perfect for you 61x58.5. You can ask Paul to build you something else :)

I appreciate your well-intentioned determination, but it's just not something I can consider right now - atmo.

[Clean39T]

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/165366180.jpg

50mm fork rake across all sizes is interesting...not something I've seen in my combing of many geo tables recently...

[saab2000]

Serotta Colorado III. There are equals but no superiors in the world of steel bikes, IMHO. I still can’t get myself to sell mine.

[oliver1850]

I forgot all about my 853 LeMond Zurich. It's a 61 cm with a 60.5 TT.

[mikmcconnell]

Ritchey road logic

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