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View Full Version : RWGPS Changes to Free & Basic Accts: Add POI & Add to Cuesheet GONE


palincss
07-27-2018, 04:29 PM
RWGPS has just made a change: free accounts no longer can add Points of Interest or add to the cue sheet. Those capabilities have been removed from Free and Basic accts and are only present in Premium accounts. I saw no notice of this, but when I submitted a Trouble Ticket to report the issue I received this email:


Last week we started a process of account realignment that better aligned features with our user base. We sent an email which is attached below to all of our users who have a Starter (free) account last Wednesday July 18, 2018. This email may have ended up in your Spam or Trash folder and unfortunately that is out of our control. In the email we explain that we will be moving two of our advanced route planning tools Add POI and ADD to Cuesheet to our upgraded subscription plans. This email and an announcement posted at the top of the Ride with GPS website informing of these changes has been available for viewing the past week, but understanding that you have been caught off-guard, I have added a month of Premium service to your account.

If you enjoy the upgraded features, you can subscribe after the trial has ended. Check out the full list of features available with the Premium upgrade here - https://ridewithgps.com/help/why-go-premium.

If you have any additional questions, let us know and we'll be happy to help. Cheers.


The response linked to a PDF file with the following explanation:

Hello riders!

In the next week, we will be making changes to our accounts that
may affect you. Currently, all our advanced route planning tools are
part of our Basic account ($50 per year). We will be moving these
tools to our Premium account ($80 per year). In addition, we will be
removing the ability to add POI and customize cuesheets from our
free account and moving those to our Premium account as well.

As a thank you for supporting Ride with GPS, all Basic account
holders at the time we make the change will be grandfathered in and
retain access to all of these features. If you’re on the fence about
purchasing a paid subscription to Ride with GPS, right now is your
last opportunity to upgrade and secure access to these tools for the
price of a Basic account.

We’re in the middle of another great year of growth at Ride with
GPS, and we are excited to be making these changes to support our
expanded staff. As always, we remain committed to listening and
responding to your feedback, and will remain focused on improving
our route planner and mobile apps. Our renewed focus on the route
planner has resulted in significant improvements in recent months,
with more planned for the rest of 2018.

If you are a member of a club on Ride with GPS, please note that
this change does not affect your club status or the benefits you
receive as a result.

Have questions? Concerns? Please let us know. We’re always
happy to hear from you. You can contact us directly or email us at
info@ridewithgps.com.

Sincerely,
The Ride with GPS Team

fiamme red
07-27-2018, 04:37 PM
I tried adding a POI today to one of my routes but was notified that unless I upgrade to Premium, it's not possible. I guess I can live without that feature.

AngryScientist
07-27-2018, 04:41 PM
not surprising.

i think over the years we've been spoiled with just how many features, services and content are absolutely free on the 'net.

i'm a mapmyride user anyway:)

OtayBW
07-27-2018, 04:55 PM
I tried adding a POI today to one of my routes but was notified that unless I upgrade to Premium, it's not possible. I guess I can live without that feature.Loss of the POI feature is No. Big. Whoop., IMO - at least for what I'm looking for - but I can see where some folks will not be happy. I think RWGPS is hands down the best software of its kind out there, and if these guys Zack and Cullen who started it are monetizing it more better, I and my local Club will continue to support that.

EDIT: Wait! I forgot this: :banana:

marciero
07-27-2018, 05:00 PM
I upgraded to the paid version, i guess it was the basic, about two months ago for the advanced route planning. It makes life SO much simpler. Aside from the advanced editing features, one neat feature is that you can download routes and maps onto your phone, so that you dont need cel signal. So now you have a nice hi-res map of your route. And Since your phone has gps, which does not require cel (duh-"s" is for "satelite") you can see where you are on the route, or if you've gone off. This has been a great companion to my garmin when touring. Honestly, i think is bargain for like $5/month

rnhood
07-27-2018, 05:03 PM
They sent out an email announcing the intentions (or plan changes) a few weeks ago, before implementing the changes. I don't know why others did not get the email, unless perhaps it mistakingly went into your spam folder.

I am not fond of the changes either, but I don't see it as a big deal. For all this site and the basic plan offers, $50 per year is no big deal either.

palincss
07-27-2018, 05:16 PM
They sent out an email announcing the intentions (or plan changes) a few weeks ago, before implementing the changes. I don't know why others did not get the email, unless perhaps it mistakingly went into your spam folder.

I am not fond of the changes either, but I don't see it as a big deal. For all this site and the basic plan offers, $50 per year is no big deal either.

The basic plan for new users will no longer offer the ability to edit cues. POI's may not be a big deal, but editing cues most certainly is -- especially considering how often you have to go in manually to clean up the errors introduced automatically. Without that ability, content creation really is crippled.

So basically, it's not $50, it's $80 -- and most of that $80 goes for a bunch of GPS and phone-navigation related "features" that are of no use to anyone not using a GPS or a phone.

palincss
07-27-2018, 05:16 PM
I upgraded to the paid version, i guess it was the basic, about two months ago for the advanced route planning. It makes life SO much simpler. Aside from the advanced editing features, one neat feature is that you can download routes and maps onto your phone, so that you dont need cel signal. So now you have a nice hi-res map of your route. And Since your phone has gps, which does not require cel (duh-"s" is for "satelite") you can see where you are on the route, or if you've gone off. This has been a great companion to my garmin when touring. Honestly, i think is bargain for like $5/month

Useless if you're not a phone or GPS user.

palincss
07-27-2018, 05:19 PM
I tried adding a POI today to one of my routes but was notified that unless I upgrade to Premium, it's not possible. I guess I can live without that feature.

Sure, but now go try to edit a cue. Create a new route and see what happens when you try to clean up a mistake, like when it tells you to take the 1st exit from the traffic circle rather than the 3rd (which it does all the time down in Chaptico MD) or when it get confused about what the name of the road actually is. That feature is very hard to live without.

fiamme red
07-27-2018, 05:29 PM
Sure, but now go try to edit a cue. Create a new route and see what happens when you try to clean up a mistake, like when it tells you to take the 1st exit from the traffic circle rather than the 3rd (which it does all the time down in Chaptico MD) or when it get confused about what the name of the road actually is. That feature is very hard to live without.Why would it tell you to take the 1st exit rather than the 3rd unless you mistakenly routed along the wrong direction through the roundabout?

I do agree with you about incorrect road names. But I usually copy the cue sheet (using http://www.ohbike.org/cuesheet_maker.html) and then edit it in Excel, which allows much more flexibility than RWGPS.

Today I noticed that a cue mistakenly said to turn left instead of right. It was because I had clicked in the middle of the intersection. I moved the point away from the intersection, and it was good.

palincss
07-27-2018, 06:31 PM
Why would it tell you to take the 1st exit rather than the 3rd unless you mistakenly routed along the wrong direction through the roundabout?
[quotte]

Because it gets confused. Sometimes it even goes around the roundabout counterclockwise. Go figure.

[QUOTE=fiamme red;2401686]
I do agree with you about incorrect road names. But I usually copy the cue sheet (using http://www.ohbike.org/cuesheet_maker.html) and then edit it in Excel, which allows much more flexibility than RWGPS.

Today I noticed that a cue mistakenly said to turn left instead of right. It was because I had clicked in the middle of the intersection. I moved the point away from the intersection, and it was good.

I extensively rework downloaded RWGPS data into cue sheets too. I even wrote myself software to automate the reformatting. But changing Rs to Ls
or fixing incorrect road names only in the cue sheet really hurts the people who use the export GPS files.

bitpuddle
07-27-2018, 10:35 PM
RWGPS is so useful for me that I happily signed up for a paid account. The route building tools are good and worth supporting. The seamless integration with Wahoo head units makes it even better.

R3awak3n
07-27-2018, 11:13 PM
I will still be fine with the free but have been a paying member. Rwgps is excellent and I am ok with them doing this. If I ever need some of the futures I will gladly pay again

oldpotatoe
07-28-2018, 07:20 AM
I have an idea!! 2 dimensional 'map'...:)

unterhausen
07-28-2018, 11:47 AM
I wonder if they will get more basic subscribers dropping than upgrading. I have been trying to decide if I should upgrade for a long time. Not sure what I am going to do now.

jruhlen1980
07-28-2018, 12:51 PM
They may well have sent an email, I almost certainly deleted it without reading. Anyway I saw the notice the other day on the website but once I clicked through and read it, I couldn't find it again.

I only use it to create routes to sync to my wahoo and as far as I can tell that is not affected and I can still do that with the free version.

I don't mind paying for the app but there is no functionality that is valuable to me that I don't get with the free version + wahoo computer. Ymmv.

unterhausen
07-28-2018, 08:53 PM
Today I noticed that a cue mistakenly said to turn left instead of right. It was because I had clicked in the middle of the intersection. I moved the point away from the intersection, and it was good.they blame google for this, but they've know about it for years and I feel like they should be able to fix it. This is one of the biggest problems with their site, and they waste development time with stupid features I don't want instead. It's probably the main reason why I never upgraded. I really don't want to think about how many hours I have wasted because of this bug. It's not just because you clicked in an intersection, it often moves a control point to an intersection automatically when you move a different control point. Doing a long route on RWGPS is just a miserable experience most of the time. Pretty sure they could get rid of the spurious right turn/u turn/right turn nonsense too. That is entirely their fault as far as I'm concerned.

If I have to pay $80 a year, I'm going shopping first.

fiamme red
07-28-2018, 09:04 PM
they blame google for this, but they've know about it for years and I feel like they should be able to fix it. This is one of the biggest problems with their site, and they waste development time with stupid features I don't want instead. It's probably the main reason why I never upgraded. I really don't want to think about how many hours I have wasted because of this bug. It's not just because you clicked in an intersection, it often moves a control point to an intersection automatically when you move a different control point. Doing a long route on RWGPS is just a miserable experience most of the time. Pretty sure they could get rid of the spurious right turn/u turn/right turn nonsense too. That is entirely their fault as far as I'm concerned.

If I have to pay $80 a year, I'm going shopping first.Many times, although I'm in cycling, not walking, mode, it tries to take a shortcut at a turn through a parking lot on the corner. When a route is complete, I look through the directions for "turn right" or "turn left' with no road name and change the routing to follow the road.

I'm submitting a new RUSA permanent and decided today to change the route slightly, so there is a new control. I can drag the old control POI to the new spot, but can't modify it. Not sure what to do about that. I suppose either delete the POI entirely or upgrade to Premium.

In general, I have been mostly happy with RWGPS.

marciero
07-29-2018, 05:34 AM
they blame google for this, but they've know about it for years and I feel like they should be able to fix it. This is one of the biggest problems with their site, and they waste development time with stupid features I don't want instead. It's probably the main reason why I never upgraded. I really don't want to think about how many hours I have wasted because of this bug. It's not just because you clicked in an intersection, it often moves a control point to an intersection automatically when you move a different control point. Doing a long route on RWGPS is just a miserable experience most of the time. Pretty sure they could get rid of the spurious right turn/u turn/right turn nonsense too. That is entirely their fault as far as I'm concerned.

If I have to pay $80 a year, I'm going shopping first.

Are you really spending inordinate amounts of time simply reviewing routes and making the occasional turn correction or there more to it? Regarding the POI/control issue-as a workaround cant you just delete/insert rather than move?

palincss
07-29-2018, 05:50 AM
Are you really spending inordinate amounts of time simply reviewing routes and making the occasional turn correction or there more to it? Regarding the POI/control issue-as a workaround cant you just delete/insert rather than move?

Certainly compared to the old way of creating cue sheets, driving the route and taking notes of odometer readings on a pad, creating a route with RWGPS isn't taking "inordinate" amounts of time. But certainly you do have to review every entry in a route. Mistakes happen, and relatively often. Sure, those spurious "spurs" with the unrecorded U-turns are the creator's fault - unless you zoom way high it's easy to accidentally click on a driveway intersection - but that doesn't help you or the route's users when they come to that spot and turn the wrong way.

As for your POI/control point issue, today unless you're a Premium member or are a Club account Route Manager logged in to the Club account, no you can't insert either a new cue or Point of Interest. They've taken that away from all but the Premium accounts.

I agree there are some features that I'd call Premium. I don't use those features, and that's why I never upgraded. And I agree that Points of Interest are certainly a frill and nothing necessary. But removing the ability to add to the cue sheet is like selling a base model car without Reverse gear, where you have to upgrade to the SEL trim line with the Premium One accessory package to be able to back up.

unterhausen
07-29-2018, 08:23 AM
Are you really spending inordinate amounts of time simply reviewing routes and making the occasional turn correction or there more to it? Regarding the POI/control issue-as a workaround cant you just delete/insert rather than move?

The routes that I create are at least 100km, majority are 200km, and longer is not uncommon. It's really tedious to QC a route of that length on RWGPS, and I'm positive they could fix that if they wanted. If I get a long route on RWGPS from someone else, I feel compelled to go through and QC. Nothing like going down a hill at high speed and getting a cue to turn right when it's not really a right turn. On a 300-400km route, that's an hour I could be doing something else.

Sure, those spurious "spurs" with the unrecorded U-turns are the creator's fault - unless you zoom way high it's easy to accidentally click on a driveway intersection - but that doesn't help you or the route's users when they come to that spot and turn the wrong way.

Unlike the intersection issue, I am only reasonably sure the software often does this itself without a mis-click. Move a control point and you will often see spurious side trips somewhere else. I think there is something about clicking a little off the road that creates the right/u/right turn issue at a nearby intersection. In any event, they could just filter that behavior like they do with the intersection warning. And I'm not sure why the intersection warning doesn't happen every time. Maybe the cut and paste feature makes this less of a pain, I am not sure. I will probably subscribe now and figure it out.

I made a 230 mile route when I was fairly new at rwgps. I exhaustively reviewed it, but I missed a control point in an intersection near the end, and so there was no cue. We were supposed to turn left, we went straight. I think that one caused 30 bonus miles and a lot of butthurt. Which is no fun at 5 in the morning.

palincss
07-29-2018, 04:55 PM
The routes that I create are at least 100km, majority are 200km, and longer is not uncommon. It's really tedious to QC a route of that length on RWGPS, and I'm positive they could fix that if they wanted. If I get a long route on RWGPS from someone else, I feel compelled to go through and QC.

Actually, they have done something to make that QC easier. There's a new feature called Review you get access to when you go to save. I've only glanced at it, not worked with it, but it seems to step through the cues one by one showing that segment on the map enlarged and allows you to change it. This could be a Premium acct feature - they gave me a 1 mo Premium trial after I submitted the trouble ticket about the change - and of course the Devil is always in the details, but it does seem at first glance to be helpful and aimed specifically at the problem you've pointed out.

palincss
07-29-2018, 05:01 PM
Unlike the intersection issue, I am only reasonably sure the software often does this itself without a mis-click. Move a control point and you will often see spurious side trips somewhere else. I think there is something about clicking a little off the road that creates the right/u/right turn issue at a nearby intersection. In any event, they could just filter that behavior like they do with the intersection warning. And I'm not sure why the intersection warning doesn't happen every time. Maybe the cut and paste feature makes this less of a pain, I am not sure. I will probably subscribe now and figure it out.

I made a 230 mile route when I was fairly new at rwgps. I exhaustively reviewed it, but I missed a control point in an intersection near the end, and so there was no cue. We were supposed to turn left, we went straight. I think that one caused 30 bonus miles and a lot of butthurt. Which is no fun at 5 in the morning.

You may well be right. I just edited a route to include the detour around a bridge closed because it was damaged in the recent torrential downpours we had last week -- all I did was eliminate a couple of control points and move the route -- and voila, there was a new spur into someone's driveway, and I never came anywhere near there while moving the route.

As for missing a cue at the end of a brevet - it's hard to think of a worse place or a worse kind of route to have a missing cue!

fkelly
07-30-2018, 08:22 AM
I coordinate my bike club's club area on rwgps (we have 200+ saved routes) and do some training on route creation once a year. I've been working with computer mapping of bike routes since the 1980's ... before it was invented really. I started trying to scan my own ... which proved hopeless.

Rwgps is the best tool I know of. The fact that it does not rely on advertising makes it better. I've tried the others (Strava, Mapmybutt etc.) and rwgps wins. There is a newer site named Plotaroute.com which does have some features that rwgps should emulate for controlling cues and control points and I've sent a link to my contact out at rwgps. But changes to what they call their route planner function come slowly.

The basic problem (I think) is that they are dependent on "routing engine" software from vendors such as Google. As you move the cursor across a map on rwgps and click, it sends info to the routing engine which responds with a suggested cue entry. If the routing engine info (data) is wrong (e.g., a street name) the cue info returned to rwgps will be wrong. The info is better than it was say 10 years ago but it ain't perfect. Aside: try reporting an error on Google maps (which you can do right from the rwgps screen) ... Google is going to send a car right out to check out your error ... not.
Except in walking mode or draw lines, the routing engines will NOT route you the wrong way down a one way street or let you make a left turn where there is a no left turn sign. They will also not route you into or out of parking lots: you have to learn some tricks with draw lines to do that.

In training I suggest:
1. verify your cue entries AS YOU MAKE THEM, ONE BY ONE, so that if you need to correct one you can use the undo function right away. This will save you hours;
2. have a backup of any routes before you start making changes. If things get screwed up you can always revert. You can have as many copies of a route (with different names) as you want.
3. rwgps has some help screens (videos really) showing how easy it is to change routes by dragging control points around. Take it with a grain of salt. As others have mentioned in this thread, dragging control points around can get rwgps all flumoxxed. If you make changes, do them incrementally and check them as you make them. See #1.

And, painful as it is, you need to step through "completed" routes to make sure they are correct. The new "review" route tool can help but it is basically just a structured way of doing what you should be doing anyway.

You are going to pay for anything good you get from the computer: just decide whether you want to do it explicitly up front or suffer through endless ads, reminders and promotions each day as you go.