Lance Wonders why?

[bikinchris]

Lance Armstrong wonders why he is scorned, but ARod is forgiven:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/lance-armstrong-wonders-why-he-is-scorned-and-alex-rodriguez-forgiven-after-doping-scandals/ar-BBL67Yw?ocid=spartandhp

[FlashUNC]

Lol.

[Mr. Pink]

ARod is not forgiven.

I was wondering what ARod was doing on my TV. Charmless, and not bringing much insight as a commentator, and it's not as though he needs the money. A friend came up with a theory. He bought his way in to his present gigs just to stay in the public eye. He's that much of a narcissist.

[tele]

I've been listening/watching his podcast The Move and then heard his interview on Freakonomics yesterday. While The Move is somewhat entertaining, his interview shows, to me anyway, he still thinks he is the victim in all this. :no:

[makoti]

ARod is not forgiven.

I was wondering what ARod was doing on my TV. Charmless, and not bringing much insight as a commentator, and it's not as though he needs the money. A friend came up with a theory. He bought his way in to his present gigs just to stay in the public eye. He's that much of a narcissist.

Same anytime I see Pete Rose. Not forgiven. Go away.

[brownhound]

There is a point to be made that dopers in other sports might be looked down on, but aren't stripped of titles and effectively exiled. Many of them still work in the game in which they doped. Yes, we can make distinctions with LA, but that's not to say it can seem inconsistent.

[adrien]

I've always felt the issue with Lance wasn't so much that he doped (at a time when so many did), but rather that he was such a @#%% the whole time. Stories of what he did to those who wanted to come clean -- the threats, the behavior, the messages -- were terrible. Maybe a case of an arrogant game-on racer personality turned towards something else, but it certainly doesn't help.

Combine that with the very long list of those he harmed or threatened to ruin and the even longer list of those who believed in him as the wonderkind (I remember someone buying me the bracelet as a gift!) and I'm not surprised he's not welcomed.

He also doesn't really seem over it. It's like there's a big chip on his shoulder he's still carrying.

[OtayBW]

There is a point to be made that dopers in other sports might be looked down on, but aren't stripped of titles and effectively exiled. Many of them still work in the game in which they doped. Yes, we can make distinctions with LA, but that's not to say it can seem inconsistent.
"It's Not About (Just Doping)".

[FlashUNC]

I've always felt the issue with Lance wasn't so much that he doped (at a time when so many did), but rather that he was such a @#%% the whole time. Stories of what he did to those who wanted to come clean -- the threats, the behavior, the messages -- were terrible. Maybe a case of an arrogant game-on racer personality turned towards something else, but it certainly doesn't help.

Combine that with the very long list of those he harmed or threatened to ruin and the even longer list of those who believed in him as the wonderkind (I remember someone buying me the bracelet as a gift!) and I'm not surprised he's not welcomed.

He also doesn't really seem over it. It's like there's a big chip on his shoulder he's still carrying.

It was and continues to be all about him, in his mind. That much is clear from these statements.

The ego is pretty amazing.

[saab2000]

His YouTube show is good. Provides a lot of insight from someone with a lot of experience. Pretending he doesn’t exist is unrealistic and then we need to ignore most riders of his era.

[vav]

Good read: https://www.complex.com/sports/2018/03/alex-rodriguez-wide-feature-2018

[oldpotatoe]

I've always felt the issue with Lance wasn't so much that he doped (at a time when so many did), but rather that he was such a @#%% the whole time. Stories of what he did to those who wanted to come clean -- the threats, the behavior, the messages -- were terrible. Maybe a case of an arrogant game-on racer personality turned towards something else, but it certainly doesn't help.

Combine that with the very long list of those he harmed or threatened to ruin and the even longer list of those who believed in him as the wonderkind (I remember someone buying me the bracelet as a gift!) and I'm not surprised he's not welcomed.

He also doesn't really seem over it. It's like there's a big chip on his shoulder he's still carrying.

He still thinks he was singled out as everybody else was doping too..but he ignores the fact that he was a gigantic prick.

[veloduffer]

Lance is not a nice person, and his past actions towards anyone who disagreed with him (teammates, girlfriends, etc) was mean and sometimes vicious.

I happen to like A-Rod, the non-player. He’s admitted to vanity and insecurity, and at least in the late part of his career, he was mentoring the young Yankees on his own mistakes. I think he will grow as an analyst, as he is very knowledgable about baseball and its history.

I think he is a better analyst than Tim McCarver, who hammered the audience with same point throughout the game, and Joe Morgan, who would talk about how superior the Big Red Machine was.

Just my $0.02


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[Mr. Pink]

Lance is not a nice person, and his past actions towards anyone who disagreed with him (teammates, girlfriends, etc) was mean and sometimes vicious.

I happen to like A-Rod, the non-player. He’s admitted to vanity and insecurity, and at least in the late part of his career, he was mentoring the young Yankees on his own mistakes. I think he will grow as an analyst, as he is very knowledgable about baseball and its history.

I think he is a better analyst than Tim McCarver, who hammered the audience with same point throughout the game, and Joe Morgan, who would talk about how superior the Big Red Machine was.

Just my $0.02


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Tim McCarver is a very low bar.

[Mr. Pink]

Same anytime I see Pete Rose. Not forgiven. Go away.

At least Rose is entertaining a freakish way, and knowledgable. Sorta like the guy at the end of the bar who knows his stuff. ARod.is reading material.

[daker13]

ARod is not liked, and Lance is not liked, so seems to me like apples and apples...Lance should be grateful he's in the public eye as much as he is.

[veloduffer]

Tim McCarver is a very low bar.



I know but he was on-air forever, particularly in the postseason. I had to mute the games in which he was the commentator. He made good points but I didn’t want to hear about it every inning.


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[dieonthishill]

Lol, it's not against the rules to be an a$$hole. Who cares.

All that is accomplished when articles like this come out, is a knock on cycling's image. Just stop writing about it and stop commenting on it. You can still enjoy cycling and don't have to listen to his show. Life will go on, I promise.

[josephr]

Lol, it's not against the rules to be an a$$hole. Who cares.

All that is accomplished when articles like this come out, is a knock on cycling's image. Just stop writing about it and stop commenting on it. Life will go on, I promise.

exactly! if he'd just move on and shut down every news/journalist's questions with 'no comment' or just walk out of the interviews, it'd save a lot of headaches and re-visiting of the past that nobody really needs. Until he reaches that point...it's just going to keep on and we all suffer for it.

[FlashUNC]

exactly! if he'd just move on and shut down every news/journalist's questions with 'no comment' or just walk out of the interviews, it'd save a lot of headaches and re-visiting of the past that nobody really needs. Until he reaches that point...it's just going to keep on and we all suffer for it.

That's precisely the point though. He can't. He has to win at everything, and right now winning is convincing everyone he wasn't a bad guy; even when there's overwhelming evidence he was, and is, an awful person and many folks (myself included) would prefer he just go away.

[dieonthishill]

exactly! if he'd just move on and shut down every news/journalist's questions with 'no comment' or just walk out of the interviews, it'd save a lot of headaches and re-visiting of the past that nobody really needs. Until he reaches that point...it's just going to keep on and we all suffer for it.

It's on the cycling industry and the interviewer to not ask the question in the first place and up to us viewers not to share it if they do. If he says "no comment" people get just as butt-hurt.

I find it hilarious that people are mad he lied for so long, then when he gives an honest answer about it in an interview, people are just as upset. Dumb.

[nobuseri]

For some reason I can tolerate Lance. I have a unique filter for him, I guess.
Yes, he doped; in a sea of other dopers in that era and still came out on top.
Yes, he lied about it and sunk others who obstructed/resisted along the way. No point for that, for sure. I think he has reflected in that and at least come to terms with home self in some way.

That said, he’s one hell of a cyclist, and he had (has?) been through a lot (including cancer). All he had done outside the doping was not all bad. Done it all at the top level and wants to share/tell his tale. Whatever comes out of his mouth, needs filtering by the listener. No different than some of the other folks out there who are on the grandstands of commentating.

Not defending, it’s just my $0.02 on how I see it/him.

[bikinchris]

He still thinks he was singled out as everybody else was doping too..but he ignores the fact that he was a gigantic prick.

I agree he is still a prick. But he WAS singled out. Other riders who admitted doping have had nothing taken away from their wins. Nor have they been sued.

His personality is super aggressive and competitive. He will not stomach losing. You can't be world champion and win the TdF without those attributes. Same with being a Super Bowl QB or any top sport.

Why do you think Sagan is getting divorced?

[Jaybee]

It's on the cycling industry and the interviewer to not ask the question in the first place and up to us viewers not to share it if they do. If he says "no comment" people get just as butt-hurt.

I find it hilarious that people are mad he lied for so long, then when he gives an honest answer about it in an interview, people are just as upset. Dumb.

Someone like Stephen Dubner would never bring Lance on his podcast if it didn’t generate listeners that in turn generate advertiser investment. Once you have him on, you kinda have to talk about the doping. It’s the elephant in the room.

Even if it’s just hate-listening/watching/reading, Lance still attracts public attention. Hell, this thread is on to page 2 after just a couple hours.

[veloduffer]

I agree he is still a prick. But he WAS singled out. Other riders who admitted doping have had nothing taken away from their wins. Nor have they been sued.



I agree that he was singled out due to is aggressive behavior toward detractors AND that he was a 7-time winner. If had only won a couple of TdFs, or at least below the immortal mark of 5x, he might not have been stripped of the titles.

It is uneven treatment but when you commit wrongdoing, you get the punishment meted out.



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[Mark McM]

I agree he is still a prick. But he WAS singled out. Other riders who admitted doping have had nothing taken away from their wins. Nor have they been sued.

All the other cyclists involved in the Reasoned Decision had their results voided for the time period in question. Nobody has been sued for getting race results for doping. Instead, Armstrong was sued for fraudulent business practices (as was Landis,for that matter).

[bikinchris]

All the other cyclists involved in the Reasoned Decision had their results voided for the time period in question. Nobody has been sued for getting race results for doping. Instead, Armstrong was sued for fraudulent business practices (as was Landis,for that matter).

I never said he was sued for race results.
Also, there certainly are riders who doped as much as Lance who are still listed as winners of le Tour. Narrowing it down to ONLY the Lance years is a cop out.

[wallymann]

that multiplied by the fact that he profiteered handsomely from being a cancer survivor's hero.

...a fraudulent a-hole...

rather that he was such a @#%% the whole time.

[Mark McM]

I never said he was sued for race results.
Also, there certainly are riders who doped as much as Lance who are still listed as winners of le Tour. Narrowing it down to ONLY the Lance years is a cop out.

Huh? There are a lot other people who break laws (all the way from jay walking to murder) who never get convicted (even if the are suspected, or even arrested) - does that mean only punishing the ones who do get convicted is a cop out?

Yes, other riders doped and got results. But unfortunately, there are not enough resources to investigate and convict all law/rule breakers (all the way from jay walkers to murders). It is therefore a very valid strategy to go after the high profile ones, in order to send a message and discourage others who might be considering breaking the laws/rules. This is a sound and well founded strategy, and not at all a cop out.

[bikinchris]

Huh? There are a lot other people who break laws (all the way from jay walking to murder) who never get convicted (even if the are suspected, or even arrested) - does that mean only punishing the ones who do get convicted is a cop out?

Yes, other riders doped and got results. But unfortunately, there are not enough resources to investigate and convict all law/rule breakers (all the way from jay walkers to murders). It is therefore a very valid strategy to go after the high profile ones, in order to send a message and discourage others who might be considering breaking the laws/rules. This is a sound and well founded strategy, and not at all a cop out.

I'm not talking about results. I am talking about winning and later admitting they doped. Bjarne Riis comes to mind.

[Mark McM]

I'm not talking about results. I am talking about winning and later admitting they doped. Bjarne Riis comes to mind.

In many cases, the rules specify that results can't be changed after a specific time period. For example, WADA has an 8 year statute of limitations on doping offenses. In many cases, athletes have purposely waited until the statute of limitations has expired before making doping admissions. This was the case for Bjarne Riis, Jonathan Vaughters, and many others.

In Armstrong's case, USADA ordinarily would also not have been able to go back more than 8 years. However, they argued that Armstrong engaged in a continuing conspiracy of doping and cover-up, and that the conspiracy extended into the 8 year limitation period. Therefore, they could strip results going all the way back to the beginning of the conspiracy, more than 8 years earlier.

Were USADA's arguments valid? implicitly, they were - or at the very least, no one knows for sure. Both Armstrong and the UCI (which has to confirm USADA's sanctions) were given the opportunity to oppose USADA's argument, but both chose not to. Therefore, USADA's argument was accepted, and the sanctions went back to 1999.


(If you want to argue that Bjarne Riis's win should still be taken away even if the statute of limitations has expired, just on principle, then you should probably look up gymnast Paul Hamm. He was awarded a gold medal in the 2004 Olympics by scoring the highest combined points in the men's individual all-around competion. Later that same day, it was found that there been a math error, and that in fact Hamm only had the 2nd highest combined points. However, by the time the math error had been found, the protest period had expired, so by the rules, Hamm could not be forced to return the gold medal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hamm#Gold_medal_controversy)

[josephr]

It's on the cycling industry and the interviewer to not ask the question in the first place and up to us viewers not to share it if they do. If he says "no comment" people get just as butt-hurt.

I find it hilarious that people are mad he lied for so long, then when he gives an honest answer about it in an interview, people are just as upset. Dumb.

I think it's been long enough now to where he can say "lets move on to something else..."....if Jessica Hahn can move on, so can Lance.

[peanutgallery]

Aha! Now you're playing the game -7 and his PR team want you to play...reset the narrative and let the $ come rolling in like its 2001 all over again

All you need to know about the man that he is can be found right here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2015/02/03/lance-armstrong-accident-girlfriend-blame/22804237/

Getting into Teddy Kennedy territory IMHO


I think it's been long enough now to where he can say "lets move on to something else..."....if Jessica Hahn can move on, so can Lance.

[makoti]

I think it's been long enough now to where he can say "lets move on to something else..."....if Jessica Hahn can move on, so can Lance.

Does Jessica still try her damnedest to stay in the public eye?

[Peter P.]

...(Lance) His personality is super aggressive and competitive. He will not stomach losing. You can't be world champion and win the TdF without those attributes. Same with being a Super Bowl QB or any top sport.

Why do you think Sagan is getting divorced?

Are you attributing Sagan's divorce to being "super aggressive and competitive?

If you are, I'm not understanding it. I don't mean to sound hostile-can you clarify this?

As for Lance, my complaint is not just that he threatened, intimidated, and ruined reputations and careers of anyone who jeopardized his secret, but as part of his mea culpa, he failed to make restitution.

Saying you're sorry isn't squat without some concrete action or changes to follow. Lance has shown neither.

[kurto]

I found this particular episode extremely insightful. It seems like many in the thread haven’t listened to it; in fact, I’d argue that the OP pulled a decidedly click-baity comment to run with. Lance knows (and discusses in the episode) why A-Rod’s been “forgiven” and he hasn’t, albeit he does point out what he perceives as hypocrisy.

I get it if people hate Lance and will never get over it. He’s an all-time jerk. I don’t have any insight into him as a person and am pretty ambivalent about his doping infractions. I think he’s done horrific things to people and wreaked havoc on the lives of many who deserved absolutely none of it. However, I also think his perspective is unique and he has much to offer still, so I listen to his podcast and don’t just disregard his opinion on things cause he’s an A-hole. If you do, though, I understand - he’s been rotten and done some pretty wretched stuff. I never hitched my wagon to him or his cause, and I wasn’t let down or disappointed to find out he doped.

Anyway, this is a good listen. Check it out with an open mind if you can.

[bicycletricycle]

In the freakanomics podcast he talks about going crazy seeing Michael Vick becoming a NFL presenter. If you listen to his podcast I think he knows it is because of how bad he treated other people and just generally how big of an asshole he was.

I do think he has probably suffered the most drastic consequences for coping of any figure in sports.

I never liked him untill about two years ago. It has been amazing to witness a person try to come to terms with the huge mistakes that they have made. I admire his efforts to make amends and deal with the consequences in public.

[Mark McM]

I think he’s done horrific things to people and wreaked havoc on the lives of many who deserved absolutely none of it. However, I also think his perspective is unique and he has much to offer still, so I listen to his podcast and don’t just disregard his opinion on things cause he’s an A-hole. If you do, though, I understand - he’s been rotten and done some pretty wretched stuff.

This almost sounds like the same reasons Clarice Starling listened to the opinions of Hannibal Lecter.

[bicycletricycle]

This almost sounds like the same reasons Clarice Starling listened to the opinions of Hannibal Lecter.

Lance didn’t eat anybody

[oldpotatoe]

I'm not talking about results. I am talking about winning and later admitting they doped. Bjarne Riis comes to mind.

Or any of the LA crew, like Hincapie..who are making big$ on their name. They were as much a doper as LA..

[Black Dog]

There is a lot of sentiment about Lance receiving the largest Punishment and being singled out. Has everyone forgotten that he was the was by far the biggest star in cycling and the highest paid? He was not some run of the mill rider. He was the face of cycling for most people. His punishment is certainly commensurate with his status and the scope of the ill gotten gains he gathered. It’s lonely at the top and the fall is the greatest. Also, don’t forget he had multiple opportunities to admit and receive some leniency and each time he doubled down and denied. Don’t conflate his punishment with a perceived light punishment of others. There may be an argument that they got a light hand but there is no argument that he got a heavy hand.

[Mark McM]

There is a lot of sentiment about Lance receiving the largest Punishment and being singled out. Has everyone forgotten that he was the was by far the biggest star in cycling and the highest paid? He was not some run of the mill rider. He was the face of cycling for most people. His punishment is certainly commensurate with his status and the scope of the ill gotten gains he gathered. It’s lonely at the top and the fall is the greatest. Also, don’t forget he had multiple opportunities to admit and receive some leniency and each time he doubled down and denied. Don’t conflate his punishment with a perceived light punishment of others. There may be an argument that they got a light hand but there is no argument that he got a heavy hand.

This is not why Armstrong was singled out for punishment. It has often been asked that, since Armstrong raced in a time when many other racers also doped, why should he be treated an different? Here's why:

What makes racing corrupt is not individual riders who make their own individual decisions to dope. The real root of corruption is the system in which team owners and managers support, or at least encourage, riders to dope, and punish riders who don't.

What people keep forgetting is that Armstrong was not a just a racer employed by the Tailwind sports (the owner of the the US Postal and Discovery teams). He was one of the owners of Tailwind sports. He used his position as an owner to encourage team riders to dope (including providing doping products to team members), and to punish riders who wouldn't cooperate with the doping program. And, as a team owner, he also profited directly from results gotten by team riders that doped. This is why his punishment was more severe than riders who were merely employed by Tailwind sports.

And no, in fact Armstrong was not singled out for harsher punishment. In the same USADA case, team Director Sportif Johan Bruyneel, team doctor Pedro Celaya, and team trainer Jose Marti were also given long bans* for supplying and encouraging doping. Armstrong and the others were charged the with same offenses and all were given the maximum punishments allowed - Armstrong was not singled out for punishment. Also, it should be noted that Armstrong was not the only one sued by the US government. Other team owners (including Bruyneel) were also named as plaintiffs in the case**. In other words, Armstrong the rider was not punished more harshly - it was Armstrong the team owner and manager that was punished harshly.

Anyone who claims that Armstrong has been singled out from all the other riders who doped is not stating all facts.

*Unlike Armstrong, Bruyneel, Celaya and Marti actually challenged USADA's case. An independent arbitration panel heard argments from both sides, and decided in favor of USADA's bans.

**Several plaintiffs, including Armstrong have made settlements with the US goverment. However Bruyneel has not, and still being pursued for repayment)

[Tandem Rider]

Lance appears to be quite an interesting character. I agree with Black Dog's assessment, however, I do see how Lance can see himself as a "victim". In the time frame of his career, there was absolutely no way to reach the very top without doping to the gills, especially in multi-day races where daily recovery is so critical. It is easy to sit here 20 years later and say "I woulda never done THAT, it's not worth it", and frankly, most of us never had to make that decision. Most of us here on PL had lower athletic potential and better non-athletic options available to us that would make deciding "no" much easier.
Add in Armstrong's unwavering focus on success at whatever the cost may be and you have the perfect storm named Lance. Behaving like a narcissistic jerk didn't help his cause either.

[texbike]

The doping I get. It was done during a time that it was incredibly prevalent in the peloton. While the doping was inexcusable, the breaking point for me was the interview with Oprah where he "confessed" to doping. The problem is, he didn't really admit to crap and has really shown no real world, public remorse for his doping or bad behaviors against others in the sport. He's a narcissistic asshole that just doesn't get it.

Have you guys heard the comments that he made on the Freakonomics podcast about the people at a bar in Denver yelling at him. My first thought was , "Yeah, right - like the whole outside bar would be doing that at a restaurant. Give me a break". The second thought, was "IF this actually did happen, he sounded like a complete asshole the way that he says that he talked to the restaurant manager".

http://time.com/5349720/lance-armstrong-restaurant-boos/

Cue the little violins for him...

Texbike

[peanutgallery]

The only thing -7 is bummed about was getting caught and basically forced to confess. Without that he would have continued to run roughshod over any any and all that questioned (aka: Hater)

The doping I get. It was done during a time that it was incredibly prevalent in the peloton. While the doping was inexcusable, the breaking point for me was the interview with Oprah where he "confessed" to doping. The problem is, he didn't really admit to crap and has really shown no real world, public remorse for his doping or bad behaviors against others in the sport. He's a narcissistic asshole that just doesn't get it.

Have you guys heard the comments that he made on the Freakonomics podcast about the people at a bar in Denver yelling at him. My first thought was , "Yeah, right - like the whole outside bar would be doing that at a restaurant. Give me a break". The second thought, was "IF this actually did happen, he sounded like a complete asshole the way that he says that he talked to the restaurant manager".

http://time.com/5349720/lance-armstrong-restaurant-boos/

Cue the little violins for him...

Texbike

[glepore]

In the freakanomics podcast he talks about going crazy seeing Michael Vick becoming a NFL presenter. If you listen to his podcast I think he knows it is because of how bad he treated other people and just generally how big of an asshole he was.

I do think he has probably suffered the most drastic consequences for coping of any figure in sports.

I never liked him untill about two years ago. It has been amazing to witness a person try to come to terms with the huge mistakes that they have made. I admire his efforts to make amends and deal with the consequences in public.
+1. Is it impossible to redeem yourself? What should he do, sell everything and live in an ashram?

He was a d***. He admits that. He's tried to make it right. The Andreau's, god love them, refuse to let go. Pretty much everyone else has. Could it be PR spin? Of course. So could the entire New Testament if you're a born skeptic. Just sayin.

[OtayBW]

+1. Is it impossible to redeem yourself? What should he do, sell everything and live in an ashram?Perhaps the ashram thing might be just the right thing based on the fact that whatever else he's done - or not done - doesn't seem to have had the desired effect.

[weiwentg]

+1. Is it impossible to redeem yourself? What should he do, sell everything and live in an ashram?

He was a d***. He admits that. He's tried to make it right. The Andreau's, god love them, refuse to let go. Pretty much everyone else has. Could it be PR spin? Of course. So could the entire New Testament if you're a born skeptic. Just sayin.

Why does it have to be possible for him to redeem himself? Why do the Andreus have to forgive him? Especially considering what he did to them, is it really for any of us to decide they should?

As to me, I have previously said that he can potentially redeem himself through seppuku, i.e. honorable suicide in the tradition of the feudal Japanese samurai. If not that, then he could spill the beans on Pat McQuaid and Hein Verbrugen, if he has any. I suspect he does, I suspect that they enabled and perhaps protected him.

[peanutgallery]

Och was Hein's broker while he was working for Weasel and Associates. So there's that, bet it's a good story

Why does it have to be possible for him to redeem himself? Why do the Andreus have to forgive him? Especially considering what he did to them, is it really for any of us to decide they should?

As to me, I have previously said that he can potentially redeem himself through seppuku, i.e. honorable suicide in the tradition of the feudal Japanese samurai. If not that, then he could spill the beans on Pat McQuaid and Hein Verbrugen, if he has any. I suspect he does, I suspect that they enabled and perhaps protected him.

[cash05458]

Was Lance singled out? sure...but there is some odd justice in his being screwed over. Seeing Lance cry and whine about life being unfair is like listening to Madoff or Noreiga crying about being made an example of. Lance still ended up with most of his heist money so he should just shut the f*** up about being treated "unfairly"...the man did his utmost best to turn his public life into a bad opera, let it just play out...

[Skenry]

I need to get something off my chest.

My name is Scott and I still like Lance Armstrong.

I read these comments all the time, here and elsewhere, and many of you make it sound so personal. I assume one or two of you here are ex-pros, but... Never have I heard this level of hatred from any other sport/hobby, I live in Cincinnati and someone here mentioned Pete Rose, it's not even close. Though yes, the numbers don't lie, Pete should be in Cooperstown, especially as it's not part of baseball which he is banned from.

Mr.Armstrong was a winner, he did his job, he inspired people. Many of you sound like he came into your backyard and kicked your dog.

[oldpotatoe]

I need to get something off my chest.

My name is Scott and I still like Lance Armstrong.

I read these comments all the time, here and elsewhere, and many of you make it sound so personal. I assume one or two of you here are ex-pros, but... Never have I heard this level of hatred from any other sport/hobby, I live in Cincinnati and someone here mentioned Pete Rose, it's not even close. Though yes, the numbers don't lie, Pete should be in Cooperstown, especially as it's not part of baseball which he is banned from.

Mr.Armstrong was a winner, he did his job, he inspired people. Many of you sound like he came into your backyard and kicked your dog.

I don't 'like' Armstrong but I don't hate him either. Hate is a really big word. He did what he did, he is who he is..no reason to let him get MY nighty in a knot. He DID have cancer and beat it(altho some even suspect that was a scam:eek:). There ARE good parts about the foundation he WAS a part of.
He talks bikes..PODCAST, easy to ignore.

BTW-I think Pete Rose shoud be in Cooperstown also..
-helmet on, flak jacket on

[saab2000]

I don't 'like' Armstrong but I don't hate him either. Hate is a really big word. He did what he did, he is who he is..no reason to let him get MY nighty in a knot. He DID have cancer and beat it(altho some even suspect that was a scam:eek:). There ARE good parts about the foundation he WAS a part of.
He talks bikes..PODCAST, easy to ignore.

BTW-I think Pete Rose shoud be in Cooperstown also..
-helmet on, flak jacket on

This is where I’m at too. People who don’t wish to let it go won’t let it go. He is very easy to ignore so those who don’t like him should just do that. It takes an active effort to subscribe to his podcast or see his videos. Don’t watch them or listen if they offend.

To my eyes he’s paid an enormous price and he’s fooling nobody. But he does offer insight few others offer. I’ve listened to a couple of his podcasts and seen his YouTube videos a couple times. Both better than I expected and far better than any other American cyclist who comments on cycling.

[paredown]

I need to get something off my chest.

My name is Scott and I still like Lance Armstrong.

I read these comments all the time, here and elsewhere, and many of you make it sound so personal. I assume one or two of you here are ex-pros, but... Never have I heard this level of hatred from any other sport/hobby, I live in Cincinnati and someone here mentioned Pete Rose, it's not even close. Though yes, the numbers don't lie, Pete should be in Cooperstown, especially as it's not part of baseball which he is banned from.

Mr.Armstrong was a winner, he did his job, he inspired people. Many of you sound like he came into your backyard and kicked your dog.
Pretty much where I'm at. What happened to those that bore the brunt of his d*ckishness is between them and LA. We make a mistake to put sports figures on pedestals anyways, and anyone who has been a participant knows that often some of the qualities that make for a winner make them intolerable IRL.

Say what you will--he stayed upright, finished and won some of the hardest bike races in the world--no amount of doping can turn a hack into a racer of that calibre.

That said, the thing is, we (and he) will never know how good he really was--there will always be the asterisks and the expunged victories...

[Seramount]

as a spectator, sports are just entertainment, they don't really impact my life in any meaningful way.

I've never idolized any sports figures...I might root for someone to win, but if they turn out to be a low-life, it doesn't really create any personal angst.

if players are doped, shaving points, being criminals, etc. I withdraw my support for them, but I certainly don't have enough emotional involvement to 'hate' them.

OJ Simpson might be an exception, tho...

[choke]

Or any of the LA crew, like Hincapie..who are making big$ on their name. They were as much a doper as LA..I dislike Hincapie and the others almost much as I dislike Lance. IMO the best thing for the sport would be for them all to disappear and I'd love to never read or hear their names again in regards to cycling - but I know that's a pipedream.

I'll admit I'm biased as I was only a LA fan for a short time. I liked him during the Motorola days (I still remember his win after Fabio Casartelli's death and think it was the highlight of his career) but the dislike started somewhere around the end of that time frame and by the time USPS came around I was rooting against him. Hmm....I might be the only American who wasn't in the LA/USPS fan club during his wins.

[shoota]

I happen to like A-Rod, the non-player.



If you only you knew him as a "non-player". He's a big, gigantic self-absorbed turd.