Help with LOOK 585 headset

[mastaliu]

Hi All,

I have a LOOK 585 2009-2010. The issue is that I cannot get the headset tight without any play. So it's either too tight and the fork doesn't move well, or it's loose with play. I have read what I can find from other forums on the LOOK 585 headset and I am still stuck. Visits to several LBSs have surprisingly not yielded any answers. I have to confess that this is my first "modern" bike with this integrated headset, so it is possible that I'm missing something very basic.

The photo shows all the parts in order as I put them together and the fork. It feels as if the fork crown rubs up against the bottom of the head tube, as if I need a longer bearing or am I missing a part on the bottom part of the headset?

Photos: fork, (1) lower bearing, (2) upper bearing, (3) split tapered bushing, (4) 4 microspacers, (5) cap, (6) 3 spacers/ 15mm, (7) stem!, (8) spacer/ 5mm, (9) stem cap, plus I have a Specialized compression plug in the steerer.

A note on the bearings: They are 41mm OD, with 36x45 degree bearing standard and are in good shape.

Help me so I can build this thing up and ride! Thank you.

[weisan]

er...where's your crown race that is supposed to be on the fork?

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/attachments/general-cycling-discussion/291074d1389801727-look-585-fork-crown-race-hsc-5-fork-does-look-right-you-photo-1-15-14-9.12-am.jpg

[Hindmost]

Starting at the bottom, with the bottom bearing and fork in place and turning by hand does the fork interfere with the head tube? If not, with the top bearing, cone, washers and top cap in place (while pressing the assembly together by hand) does the top cap interfere with the head tube?

[mastaliu]

er...where's your crown race that is supposed to be on the fork?

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/attachments/general-cycling-discussion/291074d1389801727-look-585-fork-crown-race-hsc-5-fork-does-look-right-you-photo-1-15-14-9.12-am.jpg

That was my first reaction, but from doing some research and looking at the LOOK manual, it seems as if the crown race is not used.

[mastaliu]

Starting at the bottom, with the bottom bearing and fork in place and turning by hand does the fork interfere with the head tube? If not, with the top bearing, cone, washers and top cap in place (while pressing the assembly together by hand) does the top cap interfere with the head tube?

Yes, this is what seems to be happening - the fork rubs with the headtube when the bottom bearing is in place.

[mastaliu]

Yes, this is what seems to be happening - the fork rubs with the headtube when the bottom bearing is in place.

Looking at this again carefully (it's dark here in the East), it does appear that the top cap is the one interfering with the headtube. Do I just need more of these microspacers?? Thanks Hindmost.

[Hindmost]

Looking at this again carefully (it's dark here in the East), it does appear that the top cap is the one interfering with the headtube. Do I just need more of these microspacers?? Thanks Hindmost.

That's what I am thinking.

If you don't have more micro spacers, try using a thin headset spacer instead of the micro spacers to assemble and adjust preload just to see if it works. Then get the micro spacers.

[paredown]

I see only one of the split thrust rings that go inside the head tube--from my understanding there should be a top and bottom one.

If both are there, then the microspacer stack is the place to adjust.

It's also possible that there is sufficient wear to the bearings so that when the preload is set, you are getting binding.

Here's a thread over on RBR that I read while I was trying to figure mine out that has a good description of how to set up...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/look-555-headset-question-206474.html

[saab2000]

Micro spacers above the to bearing (actually above the ring) and beneath the top cover help. Try this, as others have mentioned. I have owned a bunch of 585s and the headset is great when it works but can have this issue.

[mastaliu]

I see only one of the split thrust rings that go inside the head tube--from my understanding there should be a top and bottom one.

If both are there, then the microspacer stack is the place to adjust.

It's also possible that there is sufficient wear to the bearings so that when the preload is set, you are getting binding.

Here's a thread over on RBR that I read while I was trying to figure mine out that has a good description of how to set up...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/look-555-headset-question-206474.html

I notice this diagram as well which is for other LOOK models - the thrust rings seem to be part of the headtube in the 585, possibly replaceable, but not part of the headset components. I will have to try this with new bearings to see if the ones I have are the issue.

[paredown]

I notice this diagram as well which is for other LOOK models - the thrust rings seem to be part of the headtube in the 585, possibly replaceable, but not part of the headset components. I will have to try this with new bearings to see if the ones I have are the issue.

You may be right--I saw the one ring with the split and assumed it was a thrust ring. But worth taking a look up inside, since it took me forever to figure mine out--and there is not much information out there that is reliable.

The problem is that the retail replacement Look headset that fits my 585 does NOT include the thrust washers. Aftermarket headsets are no longer available that include them either. My own thread discussing me figuring this out for my own 585 is also on RBR. While there are in fact molded in metal reinforcements that the thrust washers butt against, you still need the top and bottom thrust washers as shown at least for my generation 585.

I had to order the thrust washers directly from Hawley because they are NOT a retail item, nor could I source a simple replacement. The thread gives contact details for the guy at Hawley who answered my questions:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/look/need-parts-stripped-look-585-a-355647.html

[mastaliu]

You may be right--I saw the one ring with the split and assumed it was a thrust ring. But worth taking a look up inside, since it took me forever to figure mine out--and there is not much information out there that is reliable.

The problem is that the retail replacement Look headset that fits my 585 does NOT include the thrust washers. Aftermarket headsets are no longer available that include them either. My own thread discussing me figuring this out for my own 585 is also on RBR. While there are in fact molded in metal reinforcements that the thrust washers butt against, you still need the top and bottom thrust washers as shown at least for my generation 585.

I had to order the thrust washers directly from Hawley because they are NOT a retail item, nor could I source a simple replacement. The thread gives contact details for the guy at Hawley who answered my questions:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/look/need-parts-stripped-look-585-a-355647.html

Thanks, I read through the link and had a look in the frame. All that is there are some metal races that seem somewhat permanently fixed inside of the headtube - are the thrust washers easily removed? Also, in the same LOOK manual, there is a diagram (below) that shows a set up without these thrust washers? Did you order direct through Hawley? Thank you!

[paredown]

My friend BikerJulio posted a picture in that thread that shows his (I did not take a picture of mine)--and I've attached it in case you can't see the pictures on that RBR thread.

So there are two pieces--first the embedded/bonded piece--which on mine was like Julio's and looked just like your picture--permanently fastened (I actually had to touch it a little with Emery to convince myself it was metal). Like you, I didn't know if that was all I needed. He kindly took his apart to show me all the parts, and his headtube with the bonded ring n the picture looks the same as yours. But he also had the thrust washers, so that was confirmation that I needed those as well.

And yes, the split thrust rings to come out fairly easily--about like a split crown race. Park tool picture from here:
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/headset-standards

And yes--I had to order directly from Hawley--and if I remember correctly, he was able to confirm by serial number that I needed the thrust washers, so it is probably worth a call to confirm. In my case, I received the 585 stripped and had never installed an integrated headset before, so it took the call directly to the reps (and the help from Julio) to get sorted. (I'm not sure what year my 585 is , but you can see it on this Paceline thread:
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=210326 )

The real PITA is that the replacement Look 585 headset does not include the thrust washers--I guess because it is not really a wear item.

[mastaliu]

My friend BikerJulio posted a picture in that thread that shows his (I did not take a picture of mine)--and I've attached it in case you can't see the pictures on that RBR thread.

So there are two pieces--first the embedded/bonded piece--which on mine was like Julio's--permanently fastened (I actually had to touch it a little with Emery to convince myself it was metal). Like you, I didn't know if that was all I needed. He kindly took his apart to show me all the parts, and his headtube with the bonded ring n the picture looks the same as yours.

And yes, the split thrust rings to come out fairly easily--about like a split crown race. Park tool picture from here:
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/headset-standards

And yes--I had to order directly from Hawley--and if I remember correctly, he was able to confirm by serial number that I needed the thrust washers, so it is probably worth a call to confirm. In my case, I received the 585 stripped and had never installed an integrated headset before, so it took the call directly to the reps (and the help from Julio) to get sorted.

The real PITA is that the replacement Look 585 headset does not include the thrust washers--I guess because it is not really a wear item.

Yes, this must be the problem! Ok, I hope I can find these washers. I will get in touch with Hawley and see if I can source. If anyone else has ideas where to get these please let me know! Thanks so much for the help.

[saab2000]

I have seen 585s on eBay without the proper headset and I steer clear immediately. I am not sure why anyone would separate the frame and fork from the headset but it happens.

The FSA Orbit is the right headset I believe but there may be sub-models of this headset and it may or may not include all the washers you need.

Best thing would be to find a trashed 585 or 595 and get all the headset pieces.

[paredown]

Yes, this must be the problem! Ok, I hope I can find these washers. I will get in touch with Hawley and see if I can source. If anyone else has ideas where to get these please let me know! Thanks so much for the help.

I know that when I was digging around for information, I found this thread, which is what made me try to order the Hope version of these thrust washers (no longer available) or the FSA Orbit SPX (no longer made but also shipped with the washers).

Neither came to much, but the same thread calls out a Giant headset (similar generation) that may have the washers included, but I was unable to see one in person to check--someone in the thread lists the Giant part number as 49008 (for TCR frame) and descriptions of it say that it includes the thrust washers:

https://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12675797

[paredown]

I have seen 585s on eBay without the proper headset and I steer clear immediately. I am not sure why anyone would separate the frame and fork from the headset but it happens.

The FSA Orbit is the right headset I believe but there may be sub-models of this headset and it may or may not include all the washers you need.

Best thing would be to find a trashed 585 or 595 and get all the headset pieces.
Yes the one that I picked up for mine was FSA--FSA Orbit Is-2 Carbon 1-1/8 Internal Headset (I got the one with the taller top spacer) and the bearings etc match up with the original LOOK h/s specifications.

Someone else responded to my RBR post who had success with a Cane Creek headset as well: Cane Creek 110.IS41, as confirmed with their guys.

Neither include the thrust washers though.:crap:

My sense about this whole problem is that these Looks (like the Giant TCRs of similar vintage) were first gen integrated, so they molded in a permanent lip, but used these replaceable thrust washers, whereas later ones just molded in the full bearing seats, but that's conjecture on my part.

[saab2000]

Yes the one that I picked up for mine was FSA--FSA Orbit Is-2 Carbon 1-1/8 Internal Headset (I got the one with the taller top spacer) and the bearings etc match up with the original LOOK h/s specifications.

Someone else responded to my RBR post who had success with a Cane Creek headset as well: Cane Creek 110.IS41, as confirmed with their guys.

Neither include the thrust washers though.:crap:

My sense about this whole problem is that these Looks (like the Giant TCRs of similar vintage) were first gen integrated, so they molded in a permanent lip, but used these replaceable thrust washers, whereas later ones just molded in the full bearing seats, but that's conjecture on my part.

Yeah, search for old, broken 585s and salvage the internal parts. One missing piece from the headset can render a whole frameset unusable and this is another case for non-proprietary headsets and BBs.

[mastaliu]

Yeah, search for old, broken 585s and salvage the internal parts. One missing piece from the headset can render a whole frameset unusable and this is another case for non-proprietary headsets and BBs.

I hope that's not the case....I have a lead with LOOK cycles USA from some calling around at Hawley and I'll post an update if/when I get the special "thrust washers"....Thanks again to all who helped me understand what was missing, much appreciated.

[mastaliu]

Update:

After a lot of calls around I got in touch with Look USA who are in the middle of setting up their shop so to speak. They were really nice, but still no spacers / thrust washers!

Amazingly, I did find a set on the big online retailer of all things. A full Look 585 headset including the hard to find thrust washers / spacers. I was worried about the seller and if it really had everything, but it does. Just search for this: "Look Headset for 555 565 585 566 576" and it will come up.

The Look 585 is up and running!

[paredown]

Update:

After a lot of calls around I got in touch with Look USA who are in the middle of setting up their shop so to speak. They were really nice, but still no spacers / thrust washers!

Amazingly, I did find a set on the big online retailer of all things. A full Look 585 headset including the hard to find thrust washers / spacers. I was worried about the seller and if it really had everything, but it does. Just search for this: "Look Headset for 555 565 585 566 576" and it will come up.

The Look 585 is up and running!
Great news. I am amazed that you found the whole headset with those pesky washers.

Please post a link--on a search with Google--i found only the ones that include all the bits & microspacers but not the thrust washers...

[mastaliu]

Great news. I am amazed that you found the whole headset with those pesky washers.

Please post a link--on a search with Google--i found only the ones that include all the bits & microspacers but not the thrust washers...

Here is the link:

https://www.amazon.com/Look-Headset-555-565-585/dp/B004QCJVDU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1534771681&sr=8-1&keywords=Look+Headset+for+555+565+585+566+576

[saab2000]

That’s a high price but it it saves an otherwise unrideable frame it’s worth it. Why people try to “upgrade” the headsets on these is a mystery. I’ve passed on frames on eBay where the seller was advertising it with an “upgraded” Cane Creek or some other strange headset. You could see in the pics it want ever going to work right. When these are installed properly they work flawlessly.

[mastaliu]

That’s a high price but it it saves an otherwise unrideable frame it’s worth it. Why people try to “upgrade” the headsets on these is a mystery. I’ve passed on frames on eBay where the seller was advertising it with an “upgraded” Cane Creek or some other strange headset. You could see in the pics it want ever going to work right. When these are installed properly they work flawlessly.

It is expensive but ultimately worth it as the frame was useless without it. Plus, this is the original spec headset with ALL parts which seem to be available in very limited supply from LOOK Canada or France. There could be a few here in the US, but until LOOK USA gets up and running this was the only option for me.

[saab2000]

It is expensive but ultimately worth it as the frame was useless without it. Plus, this is the original spec headset with ALL parts which seem to be available in very limited supply from LOOK Canada or France. There could be a few here in the US, but until LOOK USA gets up and running this was the only option for me.

Agreed. Totally worth it to save a frame.

[mastaliu]

Agreed. Totally worth it to save a frame.

In my case, this was a frame my brother raced for one season and then stored away since 2011. Why he took the headset apart and then lost the parts I have no idea:crap:

[Will_Elder]

My friend BikerJulio posted a picture in that thread that shows his (I did not take a picture of mine)--and I've attached it in case you can't see the pictures on that RBR thread.

So there are two pieces--first the embedded/bonded piece--which on mine was like Julio's and looked just like your picture--permanently fastened (I actually had to touch it a little with Emery to convince myself it was metal). Like you, I didn't know if that was all I needed. He kindly took his apart to show me all the parts, and his headtube with the bonded ring n the picture looks the same as yours. But he also had the thrust washers, so that was confirmation that I needed those as well.

And yes, the split thrust rings to come out fairly easily--about like a split crown race. Park tool picture from here:
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/headset-standards

And yes--I had to order directly from Hawley--and if I remember correctly, he was able to confirm by serial number that I needed the thrust washers, so it is probably worth a call to confirm. In my case, I received the 585 stripped and had never installed an integrated headset before, so it took the call directly to the reps (and the help from Julio) to get sorted. (I'm not sure what year my 585 is , but you can see it on this Paceline thread:
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=210326 )

The real PITA is that the replacement Look 585 headset does not include the thrust washers--I guess because it is not really a wear item.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I have picked up a 585 frame, I am not sure if the whole headset has been included.

Can someone confirm if the pictures I have attached are of the thrust washers? They do not seem easy to remove. From what I can tell of the colourway of my frame it is a later 585.

If they are the thrust washers can I buy a new headset, e.g. the FSA Orbit Is-2 Carbon 1-1/8 Internal Headset?

Thanks everyone!

[paredown]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I have picked up a 585 frame, I am not sure if the whole headset has been included.

Can someone confirm if the pictures I have attached are of the thrust washers? They do not seem easy to remove. From what I can tell of the colourway of my frame it is a later 585.

If they are the thrust washers can I buy a new headset, e.g. the FSA Orbit Is-2 Carbon 1-1/8 Internal Headset?

Thanks everyone!

Those look right. They fit fairly close--you would probably need to use a pick to get them out.

The headset size is 41mm OD, with 36x45 degree bearing--the FSA Orbit is the one I used--somewhere above I note the Cane Creek one that someone else used on Cane's tech department recommendation (there may be others).

It is also worth having the microspacers for set up--I had to use a couple to get mine set just so--and I think I picked those up at Jensons...:
https://www.jensonusa.com/FSA-Headset-Microspacers

[Will_Elder]

Those look right. They fit fairly close--you would probably need to use a pick to get them out.

The headset size is 41mm OD, with 36x45 degree bearing--the FSA Orbit is the one I used--somewhere above I note the Cane Creek one that someone else used on Cane's tech department recommendation (there may be others).

It is also worth having the microspacers for set up--I had to use a couple to get mine set just so--and I think I picked those up at Jensons...:
https://www.jensonusa.com/FSA-Headset-Microspacers

Awesome, thanks for the tip. I thought so, great to confirm. I have reviewed the headset parts that I have and all seems to be present and accounted for.