the tour, Spoiler Alert: Christopher Columbus finally made it

[cmg]

Vincenzo Nibali abandons Tour de France with broken vertebra after Alpe d’Huez crash. Then you read the report and it's a fractured vertebra, still hurts like hell. https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/vincenzo-nibali-abandons-tour-de-france-broken-vertebrae-alpe-dhuez-387401

I didn't think the fall was that serious. slow pace must of landed wrong.

[MattTuck]

Friggin fans... they need to figure it out. I like the italian approach of putting soldiers in those funny outfits on the side of the road.

[redir]

The moto's need to carry cattle prods with them to keep the fans at bay. That sucks and that's no minor injury there.

[spinarelli]

How long does a vertebrae take to heal? Is he out for most of the remaining year?

Vincenzo Nibali abandons Tour de France with broken vertebra after Alpe d’Huez crash. Then you read the report and it's a fractured vertebra, still hurts like hell. https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/vincenzo-nibali-abandons-tour-de-france-broken-vertebrae-alpe-dhuez-387401

I didn't think the fall was that serious. slow pace must of landed wrong.

[GregL]

How long does a vertebrae take to heal? Is he out for most of the remaining year?
15 days off the bike per Cyclingnews: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vincenzo-nibali-out-of-the-tour-de-france/

Greg

[MattTuck]

And, just to set the record straight, that article is wrong. It states
bali crashed with 3.8km remaining as the riders climbed towards the summit finish in the ski resort of Alpe d’Huez, hitting the deck as police motorbikes slowed ahead of him while he tried to respond to an attack by Chris Froome.

Reality, his handle bars got hooked on the camera strap of a fan. (https://imgur.com/a/hINz2Ft)

[Bostic]

It must suck to put in so much time training for the event and an intangible is the thing that takes you out.

There was also this article with Nibali a few days ago on VeloNews regarding boring TV.

https://www.velonews.com/2018/07/tour-de-france/nibali-it-may-seem-boring-but-thats-modern-cycling_472562

[RobJ]

A less conspicuous posting title would be helpful to those who are catching up on the Tour coverage on demand :bike:

[bking]

^^^^^^^
Agreed. I'm a couple days behind. Please, no spoilers in the title.

[dbnm]

How many more ads could Cycling Weekly fit on a page?

[peanutgallery]

I think a day is fair. You gotta keep up

Spoiler Alert: Christopher Columbus finally made it

A less conspicuous posting title would be helpful to those who are catching up on the Tour coverage on demand :bike:

[loxx0050]

And, just to set the record straight, that article is wrong. It states


Reality, his handle bars got hooked on the camera strap of a fan. (https://imgur.com/a/hINz2Ft)

That guy better lawyer up. If I was Niboli's sponsor I'd sue him for ruining the team's biggest race of the year if he indeed was the cause of the crash/injury.

[benb]

Hopefully that dude's camera broke... you're supposed to keep the damn strap around your neck.

But if it's some Canikon pro camera it probably didn't break at all!

[OtayBW]

a less conspicuous posting title would be helpful to those who are catching up on the tour coverage on demand :bike:

^^^^^^^
agreed. I'm a couple days behind. Please, no spoilers in the title.
+1

[djg]

Friggin fans... they need to figure it out. I like the italian approach of putting soldiers in those funny outfits on the side of the road.

Ok, no names or results here . . . but

Agreed -- I get the tradition, and atmosphere -- and the sheer length and geographic complexity of the course means you have to be somewhat selective about where you deploy what sort of route security. But it's just nuts on the major climbs and it's been that way for quite a while. Whatever risks bike racing entails . . . well, racing-ending-injury-by-idiot-fan because the world's most famous road race cannot give riders a single bike-lane wide path up a mountain has nothing to do with racing.

Shoving your way physically through fans, or their signs or capes, or their camera equipment - the shoving, the spitting, the flares and smoke bombs . . . the sheer idiocy of some of the drunken obstruction. You're trying to climb l'alpe at tour pace, at that stage in the race (or whatever stage in whatever year), and then . . . what? I get the luck of the day, and this and that, and bumping and racing, but the crazy is beyond the pale -- at some point it's absurd.

[Jaybee]

I'm sure ASO wants some of the spectacle - all those people having such a good time in such a legendary location. But that spectacle is ruined if affects the race outcome. Just before the Nibali crash, a fan ran onto the course and gave a light shove to Froome. Unacceptable.

If the Giro and the Vuelta can avoid it, then Le Tour can too. Either limit the crowd size, or get better barriers or station security. Whatever, just make it work.

[cmg]

+1

I have adjusted the title. if I can think of something funny i'll change it.

[MattTuck]

I'll say this. Regardless of the doping, Armstrong's reputation (tattered though it may be) for being a winner was due in large part to luck. Just finishing 7 tours without a major injury was pretty remarkable. Similar thing happened to him as what happened to Nibali, handle bars got hooked by a fabric loop held by a fan and caused him to go down.

https://youtu.be/sRxGNttpaZA?t=49

[benb]

Yep this has been happening for a long time, this really is basically exactly the same thing as what happened to Armstrong, only he got lucky and didn't get hurt.

The thing is there's so much drama. I'd say the only way ASO and/or the French officials would actually start to try and change things is if something happened that really unequivocally wrecked the race.

And I don't know what it would take to actually wreck the race from their perspective.. Would it have wrecked the race if LA had broken his leg when he got taken out by the Musette bag? I don't know. Nibali being out doesn't wreck this race. I'd argue if this had been Froome and he broke his vertebra and was out it also wouldn't ruin the race from ASO's perspective since they hate him and so do the French officials!

Maybe a team car taking out most of the leaders of the race? That'd be horrific on a whole different level.

[Jaybee]

Yep this has been happening for a long time, this really is basically exactly the same thing as what happened to Armstrong, only he got lucky and didn't get hurt.

The thing is there's so much drama. I'd say the only way ASO and/or the French officials would actually start to try and change things is if something happened that really unequivocally wrecked the race.

And I don't know what it would take to actually wreck the race from their perspective.. Would it have wrecked the race if LA had broken his leg when he got taken out by the Musette bag? I don't know. Nibali being out doesn't wreck this race. I'd argue if this had been Froome and he broke his vertebra and was out it also wouldn't ruin the race from ASO's perspective since they hate him and so do the French officials!

Maybe a team car taking out most of the leaders of the race? That'd be horrific on a whole different level.


I think it would have to be something more egregious than what happened yesterday. The guy w camera wasn't really out in the race lanes compared to fans around him, and certainly wasn't intending to take down a rider with his camera strap. That was an accident that honestly could happen more frequently given the number of fans, straps, and proximity.

If some fan runs out into the road and actually takes down a yellow jersey wearer or an uber-popular (French?) contender on a mountain finish, thus ending his Tour, we might see some action.

IIRC, the Armstrong/musette incident was mid-stage, and part of reason it's so legendary is that Ulrich and Co. waited for LA which gets spun into how cycling is a gentleman's sport and it didn't really affect stage results.

[chiasticon]

Reality, his handle bars got hooked on the camera strap of a fan. (https://imgur.com/a/hINz2Ft)glad someone broke that down. I looked at the video and couldn't figure out *** took him down. but once you see the strap there, it's impossible to miss. #duh

I feel awful for Nibali, so much work for nothing. and he was right there with the potential to win such an epic stage. I'll admit I also feel bad for the fan though, as I'd imagine he feels awful. stupid mistakes happen and you're in an environment where it seems acceptable to be where he was. it's on ASO to make sure he's not there in the first place.

now these idiots that light flares or run alongside the riders or wave flags in their faces... they should absolutely know better. let the riders do their jobs and don't interfere.

[chiasticon]

I think it would have to be something more egregious than what happened yesterday. The guy w camera wasn't really out in the race lanes compared to fans around him, and certainly wasn't intending to take down a rider with his camera strap. That was an accident that honestly could happen more frequently given the number of fans, straps, and proximity. actually, we don't even have to go back to Armstrong to demonstrate this happening in a race, in a situation where there were barriers too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyQjmKTmjAU

[GregL]

IIRC, the Armstrong/musette incident was mid-stage, and part of reason it's so legendary is that Ulrich and Co. waited for LA which gets spun into how cycling is a gentleman's sport and it didn't really affect stage results.
I believe Armstrong's spectator-induced crash was on the final climb of that particular stage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmvqIT-Xlug). It looked to me like Ullrich waited, but Armstrong later claimed that Hamilton convinced the others to wait. Regardless, they did slow down and Armstrong did get back into the group. He then attacked and won the stage despite the crash and a broken bike frame.

Greg

[David Tollefson]

Anyone remember the gendarme that took out Djimoulidin Abdujaparov in a finish sprint trying to take a pic?

Or the lady that dropped Gianni Bugno on a similar climb, only to have him throw his bike at her? (As I remember, it broke her arm, and when he went to the hospital to apologize to the woman, her husband was VERY apologetic to him for making him crash.)

[Jaybee]

I believe Armstrong's spectator-induced crash was on the final climb of that particular stage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmvqIT-Xlug). It looked to me like Ullrich waited, but Armstrong later claimed that Hamilton convinced the others to wait. Regardless, they did slow down and Armstrong did get back into the group. He then attacked and won the stage despite the crash and a broken bike frame.

Greg


Thanks for the clarification.

[GregL]

Thanks for the clarification.
My wife insists I'm a savant for worthless information. I'm inclined to agree with her...

Thanks,
Greg

[MattTuck]

IIRC, the Armstrong/musette incident was mid-stage, and part of reason it's so legendary is that Ulrich and Co. waited for LA which gets spun into how cycling is a gentleman's sport and it didn't really affect stage results.

I only brought that up to note that a very similar event (getting bars hooked) can have very different outcomes based on nothing but luck... and that Nibali may have been extremely unlucky or armstrong very lucky.

Guerini crash on Alpe d'Huez... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dBvJkqv0DM&feature=youtu.be&t=295) Shameful. Amateur photographers -- the great menace.

[cmbicycles]

actually, we don't even have to go back to Armstrong to demonstrate this happening in a race, in a situation where there were barriers too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyQjmKTmjAU
Yeah, but here the riders are deliberately riding off the pave which seems against the spirit of racing on cobblestones. If they had just ridden down the middle instead of hugging the barriers this wouldn't have happened. ;)

[Mark McM]

I believe Armstrong's spectator-induced crash was on the final climb of that particular stage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmvqIT-Xlug). It looked to me like Ullrich waited, but Armstrong later claimed that Hamilton convinced the others to wait.

I've heard that story, but the facts say that it can't be true:

Hamilton had been in the group containing Armstrong, Ulrich and Iban May, but Hamilton had already been dropped and gapped off the group a few minutes earlier. Then Armstrong attacked, followed immediately by Mayo, and then Ulrich. A short way up the road, Armstrong got tangled with a bag strap and went down, causing Mayo (who had just caught Armstrong's wheel) to also go down. Ulrich was a few feet behind them, and just managed to avoid the other two cyclists as they went down.

The cameras stayed on Armstrong, as he untangled his bike, got the chain back on and then jumped back on and started again. Meanwhile, Ulrich was just a short way up the road, now with both Mayo and Hamilton. Where had Hamilton come from? He had already been dropped from the group when Armstrong attacked and Mayo and Ulrich had accelerated to follow. Either Hamilton suddenly got a second wind, and quickly accelerated fast enough to bridge the original gap plus more to reach an attacking Ulrich; or Ulrich waited. There are images of Hamilton putting his hand up to urge other riders to wait - but he wasn't gesturing to Ulrich (who had already waited for him), he was gesturing to Mayo, who had picked himself up off the road quicker than Armstrong, and had reached Ulrich and Hamilton.

When Armstrong regained the group, Mayo soon attacked, and the rest followed - well, except for Hamilton. He was immediately dropped again. This further shows that Hamilton was in no condition to have chased down Ulrich after Armstrong crashed.

The only conclusion: For one reason or another Ulrich slowed down after Armstrong and Mayo went down. Was it good sportsmanship, or just simply confusion? Who knows. Armstrong may have told a different story, but we all know how good he was with facts and truth.

[MattTuck]

The only conclusion: For one reason or another Ulrich slowed down after Armstrong and Mayo went down. Was it good sportsmanship, or just simply confusion? Who knows. Armstrong may have told a different story, but we all know how good he was with facts and truth.

Don't forget that Armstrong waited for Ullrich when Ullrich crashed. Stage 13, 2001 Tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGueSIfFbE8

[savechief]

I like Contador's approach for dealing with unruly fans:
https://youtu.be/O0W__FNIGwA

[Bruce K]

Please keep specific rider names/nees out of thread titles.

People are complaining

BK

[Seramount]

riders should just stop and pummel the crap out of jerkwad spectators that interfere with their lines, spit on them, etc...

no time penalties for doing this.

[Cloozoe]

Ok, no names or results here . . . but

Agreed -- I get the tradition, and atmosphere -- and the sheer length and geographic complexity of the course means you have to be somewhat selective about where you deploy what sort of route security. But it's just nuts on the major climbs and it's been that way for quite a while. Whatever risks bike racing entails . . . well, racing-ending-injury-by-idiot-fan because the world's most famous road race cannot give riders a single bike-lane wide path up a mountain has nothing to do with racing.

Shoving your way physically through fans, or their signs or capes, or their camera equipment - the shoving, the spitting, the flares and smoke bombs . . . the sheer idiocy of some of the drunken obstruction. You're trying to climb l'alpe at tour pace, at that stage in the race (or whatever stage in whatever year), and then . . . what? I get the luck of the day, and this and that, and bumping and racing, but the crazy is beyond the pale -- at some point it's absurd.

I'm with you. Obviously it's a very cool thing --even putting tradition aside-- to be able to watch world class athletes in the marquis event in a spectacular setting from mere feet away.

And if everyone was sane they'd do what you and I and most people would do: make sure to stay out of the way, clap, cheer, yell, smile a lot.

But to expect that kind of sanity not from most people but from all people is obviously not realistic. It's amazing to me that the consequences have not been even worse, but one of these days there will be a true catastrophe and that'll be that. My question? Why wait? Has to be some sort of reasonable middle ground that would reduce exposure of the riders to danger without turning it into airport security.

[e-RICHIE]

Anyone remember the gendarme that took out Djimoulidin Abdujaparov in a finish sprint trying to take a pic?




It wasn't Djimoulidin Abdujaparov.
It was Wilfried Nelissen (and also Jalabert).

[Elefantino]

At the Giro last year I spoke with some English-speaking tifosi who agreed it would be a great idea if we threw anyone who lit a flare or smoke bomb off the ************* mountain.

No one did, fortunately (or unfortunately).

[weisan]

It wasn't Djimoulidin Abdujaparov.
It was Wilfried Nelissen (and also Jalabert).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pya6ZVW-oKg

[David Tollefson]

It wasn't Djimoulidin Abdujaparov.
It was Wilfried Nelissen (and also Jalabert).

Ah, yes. Thanks.

[oldpotatoe]

That guy better lawyer up. If I was Niboli's sponsor I'd sue him for ruining the team's biggest race of the year if he indeed was the cause of the crash/injury.

The Bahrain-Merida team have confirmed to Cyclingnews that they are considering legal action against the organisers of the Tour de France after team leader Vincenzo Nibali was brought down and fractured a vertebrae in a chaotic incident on the climb to L’Alpe d’Huez.

Bet the fan is into the wind...

[Jaybee]

Bet the fan is into the wind...

He is, and I would also argue he wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary for a major GT climb. Onus is on the ASO, in my opinion, to define what the norm is and provide safety for the riders.