Tour de France Stage 11 - First Mountain Finish - SPOILERS

[jlwdm]

First mountain finish but not very steep so probably not a lot of great action until tomorrow.

Jeff

[justindcady]

Somebody just needs to make a move. This whole Sky train business got old years ago. Can't have any chance of winning unless you take a few risks, no?

[kramnnim]

Somebody just needs to make a move. This whole Sky train business got old years ago. Can't have any chance of winning unless you take a few risks, no?

Movistar read your request.

[harlond]

Don't think Cavendish is going to make up any ground on Merckx this year.

[jlwdm]

Sky is so impressive in how they handle attacks. No panic and just continue to ride their race.

Jeff

[kramnnim]

Don't think Cavendish is going to make up any ground on Merckx this year.

Sounds like he will DNF today

[jlwdm]

Wow! This is much better racing than I expected.

Jeff

[PNW]

Wow! Thomas really proved his strength. I thought Quintana would attack harder in this stage.

[kramnnim]

Poor Nieve lol

Yay G!

[jlwdm]

Sky rode a brilliant race, but I feel so sorry for Nieve.

The biggest issues for Sky are Poels and Bernal. Maybe they be stronger in future stages, but they were not any help today.

Jeff

[jr59]

Some day of racing there. But Sky just does what it does and in the end, well it just kind of works out.

[ultraman6970]

And dumoulin put all that work for 3 seconds, dont think he is too happy. But he has something darn quintana doesnt have... courage to go for it.

Quintana or did not have the legs or he did what he has been doing lately, dropping the ball and suck wheel at the worst moments (waste of time). At that point of the race IMO movistar did all possible for him to get him back in the race. He is gone of the race IMO.

IMO the biggest problem for Movistar now is that Landa is not too reliable, independently of the crashes he got already, if you notice he wins one day and then he lose tons of time next day. Movistar should be thinking in changing tactics and try to win stages maybe with soler. Probably tomorrow landa will win, who knows.

Great set up by sky... you cant deny that.

Froomey: Hey G... you win today... then tomorrow I win the classic stage 12, ok?

[marciero]

Wow! Thomas really proved his strength. I thought Quintana would attack harder in this stage.

Both he and Froome. Am wondering about the tactics- first Thomas attacking, then Froome eventually chasing his teammate. Froome's move was explosive enough not to drag the rest of the group and jeopardize Thomas' chances of getting in yellow, and he did wait for Thomas to get away first. With Thomas away, it also makes sense also to have Froome not lose, or gain time on other GC guys. So it makes sense team tactics-wise. If both of them are strong enough to win the Tour they will have to make some decision at some point. Froome's remarks a few days ago seemed to indicate being open to the possibility of supporting Thomas if things worked out that way.

Between these two and the rest of the team, Sky seem pretty much able to control the race at will.

[paredown]

Sky burned off one their own riders (of the 6 starting up the last climb)--and that meant that Kwiatkowski had to even do more work on the front--did you see when he switched off, he looked like he was going to fall off his bike. He'll be hurting tomorrow.

I felt sorry for Nieve--a brave ride. He looked too depressed to compete for second, or maybe he was gassed.

[GregL]

Both he and Froome. Am wondering about the tactics- first Thomas attacking, then Froome eventually chasing his teammate. Froome's move was explosive enough not to drag the rest of the group and jeopardize Thomas' chances of getting in yellow, and he did wait for Thomas to get away first. With Thomas away, it also makes sense also to have Froome not lose, or gain time on other GC guys. So it makes sense team tactics-wise. If both of them are strong enough to win the Tour they will have to make some decision at some point. Froome's remarks a few days ago seemed to indicate being open to the possibility of supporting Thomas if things worked out that way.

Between these two and the rest of the team, Sky seem pretty much able to control the race at will.
Finish line quotes from Thomas stated that his attack was not planned. I think he saw an opportunity to win both the stage and the yellow jersey. This also puts Sky in the position of supporting both Thomas and Froome. As long as Thomas doesn't falter, the team is obligated to support him. The stage 20 time trial is the only upcoming stage Froome can ride for himself. We'll just have to see how this plays out in the days to come.

As far as other GC competitors, only Dumolin looked really good. Landa, Bardet, Quintana, and Nibali ceded time. Quintana is ruing the time he lost earlier in the race. Once again, Sky's race to lose. Shades of 2012.

Greg

[simpsonn]

Sky burned off one their own riders (of the 6 starting up the last climb)--and that meant that Kwiatkowski had to even do more work on the front--did you see when he switched off, he looked like he was going to fall off his bike. He'll be hurting tomorrow.

I felt sorry for Nieve--a brave ride. He looked too depressed to compete for second, or maybe he was gassed.

Kwiatovski has a habit of essentially shutting it down 100% after his pulls. I think he'll surprise a few people tomorrow by still supporting GT and Froome on the climbs.

[tctyres]

Sounds like he will DNF today

Cav's out.
Kittel is out.

[Seamus]

Froome's remarks a few days ago seemed to indicate being open to the possibility of supporting Thomas if things worked out that way.


Froome's ruthless, he's not going to "support" Thomas, only let Thomas soften up the rest and ride their wheels. Recall the end of the Vuelta last year where he sprinted for the Green jersey or the Dauphine when he attacked simply to scupper Richie Porte's chances.

[stev0]

disappointed how easily sky put this one away. hats off to nieve and dumoulin for giving it a go.

looks more and more like cav is completely finished - wonder how much longer he'll go for.

[MattTuck]

Finish line quotes from Thomas stated that his attack was not planned. I think he saw an opportunity to win both the stage and the yellow jersey. This also puts Sky in the position of supporting both Thomas and Froome. As long as Thomas doesn't falter, the team is obligated to support him.

This is a little insurance against being asked to sacrifice too much for Froome. Sky is clearly a well oiled machine, with a clear pecking order. And yes, even with G ahead on the G.C., I'm certain that the team was still riding for Froome. I'm not sure that will change very much, but atleast G can ride for himself (if he chooses) -- and Sky probably needs to make a symbolic effort to support G.

As for the race today. Dan Martin is the man. If that guy could put together 3 weeks of good luck, I'm pretty sure he could finish top 3 at the tour.

Good for Tom Dumoulin too, nice to see that some riders still have guts and don't roll over when team Sky gets into battle formation.

[ergott]

The race is for second place, again.

Great things to watch per stage, but it's pretty conclusive Froome will win another.

[fignon's barber]

Maybe tomorrow we see Froome and Thomas finish hand in hand on Alpe D'Huez, ala Lemond/Hinault.

[redir]

I really thought Nieve had that one in the bag. The poor little guy just cracked. I love Dan Martin's fighting Irish spirit but it might not have been the best thing to drag Froome up there. In the end though it paid off for him jumping all the way up to 10th on GC. My prediction, if Martin hangs in there he's got 3rd over all.

[GregL]

Maybe tomorrow we see Froome and Thomas finish hand in hand on Alpe D'Huez, ala Lemond/Hinault.
I was thinking the same thing. This tour is shaping up to be similar to '85, '86 and '12. Froome may be the designated leader, but Thomas has his own ambitions. Going to be interesting to see how it plays out tomorrow and in the Pyrenees.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d9/de/f9/d9def9fbd6e89c0c1e1de9eed8aaba30.jpg
http://cdn1.cyclist.co.uk/sites/cyclist/files/3/19//hinault_850722_ofs.jpg
https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02933/wiggins-froome-afp_2933637b.jpg

Greg

[MattTuck]

For what it's worth, I was expecting (hoping for) more from Landa. I wanted him to stick it to his old team -- like Nieve tried to do.

[denapista]

Wow! Thomas really proved his strength. I thought Quintana would attack harder in this stage.


Movistar had the best chance to liven this race up... The peloton pushed to bridge Valverde, and that was the perfect moment for Quintana to take off.. Maybe he's waiting for Alp d'Huez... He just sat in that group and lost anoter casual .40 seconds on Froome and Sky. He's the biggest let down to me..

[johnmdesigner]

I guess I'm just losing interest in bike racing because it's all rather boring to me.
Tacky orca shirts always in the front.
You can't compare Froome and Thomas to Greg and the Badger. Now that was a feud.
Unless he gets hit with a bucket of pee or someone sticks a hypodermic needle in his arse we all know who's going to win.
I did enjoy the scenery today though.

[Heisenberg]

What a troubling thing to watch.

Was kind of hoping the charade would last a little bit longer...ah well. Cycling will never learn.

[jlwdm]

I thought it was a wonderful stage to watch. Lots of great strategy for stage and GC.

Sky showed they weren't worried at all about Valverde going from so far out.

And Lawson Cradduck finished before the cutoff.

Jeff

[mktng]

eh. i thought it was a fantastic last 5 km's !

[PNW]

Cav's out.
Kittel is out.

Cav is done for the tour? Does he ever finish anything anymore lol

[redir]

I'm sure Thomas was told to go.

[MattTuck]

And Lawson Cradduck finished before the cutoff.



That's great. He's peaking for the 4th week! :p

I say that in jest, of course. I am impressed by his grit. Not sure if he is feeling any better, or just surviving, but I do hope he is able to do more than just 'make it to the finish line.'

[Bruce K]

It would really cool to see Craddock go for broke on one of the late stages.

Not sure he has it in him but finishing the Tour is huge for him.

BK

[Red Tornado]

Is everyone else just weak? It's like Sky is just playing with the rest of the field. Same thing every year.
I used to be a Sky hater, but if no one (or the others combined) can come up with anything to take them off their game, then let Sky riders win the next 10 Tours for all I care.
Evidently they have all the best riders. Even their gangly leader can now hammer the pave' with the classics specialists. He may after all be the most complete rider in the Tour.
I would like to know why their super domestiques don't perform nearly as well when they leave Sky.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness post..

[ultraman6970]

Tornado the problem is that everybody (team) has their own agenda. Many teams that could have done something are done like BMC for example. Other teams brought the wrong guys, like katusha and Dimension data who brought a team to support sprinters which as today arent in the race anymore.

Even, inside the teams you have problems between riders, and unless you have a cohesive team, then there is nothing they can do against sky.

Part of sky team was in Movistar, movistar picked up riders from sky, but looks like the trade between each other did not work for movistar but worked perfect for sky for some reason.

Way too many factors, but since everybody wants to win it, they wont go for it as a conglomerated to just kill sky, that is not going to happen.

Tomorrow will be the same thing, guys going ahead 10 or 15 minutes, then bought back, i'm almost sure that Thomas won this one today because froomey wants tomorrow's stage, which is more important for the resume than today's. Or as GL said... thomas-frommey holding hands tomorrow.

A lot of teams lift people from sky team and havent been able to figure it out yet what they are doing? Find that interesting.

[jlwdm]

...

I would like to know why their super domestiques don't perform nearly as well when they leave Sky.

...

Because they are domestiques.

A lot of super domestiques put in a lot of great rides, but they are not always there every day. And not always there to the end. Look at Poels today - he had nothing. Bernal crashed at Roubaix and he is young but he did not even take a turn at the front.

A super domestique does not have much pressure - just go as hard as needed for as long as you can. A team leader has the pressure of performing well for all of his team mates who are supporting him. Then there are the lengthy interviews before and after each stage. And time spent for some on the podium.

Just because a rider can pull a leader up climbs for a bunch of stages does not mean the rider is going to be a strong team leader. You have to be ready to work through the pain.

At Sky the riders are working in a system and don't have to think about much. Get in position in the train and do your job. When Valverde attacked Sky just chugged along. They did not seem concerned about Valverde at all from that far out.

A "true" GC champion team like Sky has every rider totally committed to winning in Paris. Most teams are not strong enough in the GC to make such a commitment worthwhile. You don't see Sky riders out trying to win stages, green jerseys or polka dot jerseys - they are focused on the big prize. Look at Kwiatkowski. He is not a true climber, but he will get on the front and go as hard as he can until he is completely spent.

It amazes me that people on bike forums like this one act like going into today GVA had a chance to win the race. These people have no understanding of the pressure or importance of the Tour de France. The Giro and Vuelta can be fun to watch but they don't have the strongest teams and the strongest riders competing.

Jeff

[kramnnim]

I would like to know why their super domestiques don't perform nearly as well when they leave Sky.



Like who? Nieve is about the same, won a stage in the Giro and almost won today... Landa was already good with Astana and would probably have done better today if he hadn't have crashed like he did. BMC Richie is the same as Sky Richie...

Frank, Konig, Kennaugh, Roche...none of them were super. Well, maybe Roche, but he did well before Sky.

Siutsou was looking good this season, shame he crashed out of the Giro. (not that he was super, either)

[johnmdesigner]

Phil will mention TJ's name every 5 minutes even if he's the copilot in the broom wagon.

[Red Tornado]

All good points regarding my previous post. Some things I had not yet considered.
Guess my problem is I want more parity. Never could stomach teams/individuals that win seemingly at will for extended periods of time in any sport. Sky's tactics work for them but make it boring for me. I was really hoping Movistar would stick it to em' this time around, just for a change. So wanting other teams to be able to compete with them instead of battling each other for 2nd & 3rd.

[pbarry]

The S domestiques might not do as well on other teams cause their programs aren't as rigorous, whether that's training regimen or something else.

Thomas is the heir apparent, as there's that pesky positive for the team leader.

Quintanna has been tentative to attack since his first TDF. He's not a factor tho I admire his potential; it's never been realized.

Good times tomorrow.

[sib]

Was anyone else disappointed with the way things panned out for Adam Yates?
I was (still am?) hoping for fireworks from him on the climbs.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow, I guess...

[simplemind]

Like everything else, it's about the money. Sky, at a $45 mil budget (easily 2x their opponents) own the tour.

[ultraman6970]

Well this tactic is not new at all, had been around for a very long time, ask LA :D , same with liquigas back then. Just pace high so nobody can attack, done.

The problem with movistar is that the team is weak compared with previous years, they have 3 guys, the other domestiques can't do anything apparently. Valverde is old, Quintana since a couple of years that havent been able to take the bulls by the horns, between you and me the only time Ive seen Quintana taking it like a man is when contador cut the group and left sky behind, quintana pulled like never seen him before. Today as usual he just stayed there waiting for somebody else to cross the gap instead of just do it himself, attitude problem. Totally agree with Pbarry.

Then you have landa... the dude is not reliable as a rider, he rides good today, tomorrow who knows, thats why I dont like him too much (not saying is a bad rider, he is an awesome climber), in a team the dude is hard to thrust, if you know what i mean. So those little things IMO have movistar just out of contention. We are not going to see Quintana going for it, doubt he is going to even try, but he will suck wheel like a champ, you cant win a tour doing that. There is a reason why Martin went for it today.

The rest of the teams arent even trying to contest the yellow (which sucks btw), heck even pozzovivo cant climb in the tour, so nibali is alone, the dutch is alone too, so what are they going to do being that each of their teams have their own agenda? Nothing. Dumoulin was brave today, nibali no idea what he was trying to do pulling (remember last year the idiot did the same?) sky, it killed him at the end.

Tomorrow, same as today and Froome arriving solo to the top of the last climb.


All good points regarding my previous post. Some things I had not yet considered.
Guess my problem is I want more parity. Never could stomach teams/individuals that win seemingly at will for extended periods of time in any sport. Sky's tactics work for them but make it boring for me. I was really hoping Movistar would stick it to em' this time around, just for a change. So wanting other teams to be able to compete with them instead of battling each other for 2nd & 3rd.

[572cv]

Cav is done for the tour? Does he ever finish anything anymore lol

Cav’s season started with a crash related concussion. Don’t know if you’ve ever had one, but I have. And others I ride with have had one as well. Recovering fully can vary greatly with each person, and I’ve seen people take the better part of a year to feel really ‘normal’. He’s definitely not quite there, but I suspect it is not entirely age related.

[Climb01742]

My hope now is that riders go for individual stages. What’s worth more to someone like Nibali? Finishing 5th or winning an epic mountain stage? Some drama, please!!!

[Mark McM]

I would like to know why their super domestiques don't perform nearly as well when they leave Sky.

Probably for the same reason that the super domestiques didn't perform as well when they left Armstrong's US Postal team - they no longer had the benefit of the team's "marginal gains".