Zwift with non-smart trainer

[LegendRider]

Is anyone using Zwift with a non-smart trainer? If so, how do you like it? What are the drawbacks aside from decreased accuracy in the numbers?

I'm eyeing a Kickr, but thought I'd start with the basic set-up (Cycle Ops Super Magneto Pro plus Wahoo cadence/speed sensors) first to see if I get hooked on Zwift like everyone else is...

[MagicHour]

It’ll work fine with that setup to give you a taste, but ideally you would want your power as accurate as IRL for realism by using either a power meter or a smart trainer. Especially so if you want to do group rides or races. If that cycleops is on Zwifts list of supported trainers you may get slightly more accuracy then other dumb trainers, not sure.

I’ve been on for a couple years with a kinetic dumb trainer and a power meter, and it does what I need it to, which is training for IRL riding, when I can’t always get outside for a quality ride due to work and living in a city. I mainly do workouts, so I personally don’t need the simulated resistance I’d get with a Smart trainer, but again for group rides, races or even JRA solo that would obviously improve your experience/realism.

I’m eyeing the new Kickr core that was just released, to maybe finally go Smart though; it’s small, silent, and several iterations matured now, for $899.

[redir]

Just posting to follow this thread. I recently bought a power tap wheel for this sole purpose. Trainers bore the hell out of me and I hear good things about Swift for indoor boring winter training. I plan to ride on rollers though.

[fignon's barber]

Is anyone using Zwift with a non-smart trainer? If so, how do you like it? What are the drawbacks aside from decreased accuracy in the numbers?

I'm eyeing a Kickr, but thought I'd start with the basic set-up (Cycle Ops Super Magneto Pro plus Wahoo cadence/speed sensors) first to see if I get hooked on Zwift like everyone else is...


I've been looking at Zwift as well. I think a big part of the appeal is the competitive part with the group rides and races. How cool would it be to set up a PL group ride? So I think you need a basic smart trainer. I've narrowed my search down to Tacx Flux and Kickr Core.

[LegendRider]

I've been looking at Zwift as well. I think a big part of the appeal is the competitive part with the group rides and races. How cool would it be to set up a PL group ride? So I think you need a basic smart trainer. I've narrowed my search down to Tacx Flux and Kickr Core.

It's my understanding you can do the interactive stuff on Zwift (group rides and races) with a non-smart trainer as long as you have the sensors and the trainer is supported. I haven't been through the process, but apparently Zwift can estimate power with the dumb trainer + sensors combo.

[tctyres]

... apparently Zwift can estimate power with the dumb trainer + sensors combo.

From what I've heard, Zwift gets the power curves from the companies and then uses those in conjunction with its own measurements. It's not as tidy as a power meter.

I was working on this -- estimating power from cadence and speed, but I just sort of gave up. It's possible to get the power on the trainer (unlike riding on the road), but I bought a power meter instead.

I'd also be interested to hear of anyone's results using a non-smart trainer.

[jruhlen1980]

Is anyone using Zwift with a non-smart trainer? If so, how do you like it? What are the drawbacks aside from decreased accuracy in the numbers?

I'm eyeing a Kickr, but thought I'd start with the basic set-up (Cycle Ops Super Magneto Pro plus Wahoo cadence/speed sensors) first to see if I get hooked on Zwift like everyone else is...

Well it's a matter of personal preference but I didn't care for Zwift with a dumb trainer.

The whole point of Zwift, for me, is the realism of actually biking up and down terrain, the interactive aspect of biking with groups and drafting and such is also nice. You don't get that with a dumb trainer, so instead when you hit a big hill your avatar just slows down a bunch but you're still spinning away in real life. For me, with a dumb trainer, it really wasn't much different than anything else I'd be watching on TV.

I liked TrainerRoad much better with a dumb trainer -- the estimated power might not be accurate, but it's consistent, and I was able to get in good workouts and the skill needed to maintain a certain power output for a certain amount of time, without the assistance of a smart trainer with ERG mode, was also helpful.

I got a Kickr Snap this winter and it revolutionized my training experience. Zwift is a lot of fun with a smart trainer now, and if I have an 1.5 hours to kill during some crappy winter weather it really does feel like I've just biked up the Alp D'Huez. (At least, I assume it does. I've never done the real thing.)

[madsciencenow]

Dumb trainer and PM has worked well for me. Without the PM I didn’t have the same experience.

I guess resistance on a hill or climb would be nice but you get a sense of this if you want to hang with other folks using a smart trainer or PM. On the longer climbs you feel like you actually did a climb with a PM. The only notable difference is the position I have on my saddle on Zwift versus a steep hill.


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[kramnnim]

I have a Kickr, but don’t like Zwift controlling it to match the virtual hills, and keep that turned way down or off completely. Dumb trainers generally don’t have much of a flywheel and thus don’t feel very realistic (when you stop pedaling, the wheel stops spinning much faster than it does outside unless you’re going uphill)

[kramnnim]

Oh, and once you use a wheel off trainer, you’ll not want to go back to a wheel on.

[ergott]

To clarify, smart trainers are not just about getting accurate power readings on Zwift. It's more about the resistance changing along with the terrain you are riding in the program. See mountain, you have to downshift. Flat terrain, big ring etc. It's much more engaging for longer rides than a dumb trainer whether you use estimated power or a power meter.

Another major difference is training with ERG mode. You can change your cadence, but the resistance will maintain a given power regardless. Basically you just pedal and let the workout do its thing. Great for harder rides because the only way to let up is to quit and that's not acceptable! I've done long term training on Zwift over the winter and the results are better than any other off season. I came into the better weather ready to rock.

[cash05458]

I started on Zwift with my old Kinetic road machine and a wahoo speed and cadence sensor...liked it well enough...I certainly got more indoor training done...then I got lucky and picked up a used wahoo kickr for about 300 bucks...totally different experience and far far better and more fun...without a smart trainer you are getting a taste of zwift, but it remains a mere taste really.

[drewskey]

You can get into the estimated-power game even cheaper. I used the Nashbar fluid ($129) to estimate power for a couple of winters with Trainerroad/Zwift before I picked up a Quarq. I did a couple of rides with both the estimate power running and recording the readings from my Quarq and the estimated power was actually close for me, which was very surprising.

Either way you go, I suspect you'll be like others have said here, more fit come good weather time.

[C40_guy]

I've been using Zwift with a Kurt Kinetic (dumb) trainer. It's fine. The interactivity of the app makes the time on the trainer much better. The system tries to calculate power using your wheel speed and cadence; just know that it's not accurate. Perceived exertion is fine.

I put my account on hold in the spring, will pick it up again in the late fall.

For my purposes, I don't feel compelled to upgrade my trainer.

By the way, Zwift also offers a running option. You need a treadmill (d'oh) and something to communicate with Zwift. I use a Garmin footpod.

[Blown Reek]

From what I've heard, Zwift gets the power curves from the companies and then uses those in conjunction with its own measurements. It's not as tidy as a power meter.

My Tacx Neo's power reads exactly the same as my SRM power meters. The power and cadence on the TV's display mirrors the power and cadence on my PC8. So at least in my case, it is as tidy as a power meter.

For what it's worth.

[ergott]

My Tacx Neo's power reads exactly the same as my SRM power meters. The power and cadence on the TV's display mirrors the power and cadence on my PC8. So at least in my case, it is as tidy as a power meter.

For what it's worth.

He's talking about basic "dumb" trainers.

[cmbicycles]

***Shameless self promotion*** but I currently have a bkool trainer here https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=219844 if anyone is looking for a inexpensive "smart" trainer option. Works with zwift/bkool apps.