Adjusting approach to conventional road riding

[Clean39T]

EDIT: I really appreciate all the perspectives shared here. I'm not ready to give up on road riding. But I am committing to being more selective about when and where I ride in order to reduce the statistical likelihood of ending up dead or disabled. And I apologize for the stereotyping below - most people in most places are good and gracious - and likewise, driving like a complete jackhole is not the sole domain of any one tribe, type of vehicle, or whatever...

Be well friends.

---------

This is my rant. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

I've generally gone numb to the prickish behavior of motorists I encounter on most of my rides. I've learned to ride very defensively, to expect right and left hooks, etc. I've even shrugged off d-bags with hyper inferiority-complexes who think their manhood is somehow confirmed by rolling diesel in my face.

But four times today I almost got intentionally hit or run off the road, and it's just gotten under my skin more than ever before. So much so that I actually told my wife about it...a dicey move considering she already doesn't like me riding on the road...and am pretty much feeling like I want to just focus on gravel, cross, and mtb - with an occasional organized road event.

And when I say intentionally hit or run off the road, I mean situations where there was no reason at all for a $100K BMW to give me 6-inches of clearance at 50-60mph, with me going 35mph in a 40mph zone, or someone in an expensive big-a$$ truck pulling up behind me and then flooring their diesel while swerving toward me just for fun, or someone swerving into oncoming traffic and then back over and into the bike lane right in front of me rather than waiting 20 seconds until it was safe to pass. Oh, and the topper, I'm going 35-40mph down a hill in a 35mph zone - I get a big gust of wind off a truck going in the opposite direction up the hill, probably going 60mph, and that wind gives me a speed wobble, so I slow down a bit and the car behind me lays on their horn like I've spoiled their day by slowing down to 30mph for 100ft.

I just don't get the animosity and general loathsome behavior of people in cars. Maybe I'm just unlucky. Maybe I'm overly sensitive today for some reason. But goddamit, I don't want to be a statistic. And as much as I love riding road bikes, I'm seriously having a hard time justifying it at this point. There are other ways to enjoy two-wheel fun. I guess its time to go find them.

/rant-off

[BRad704]

Sorry to hear your day went this way. 4 times in one ride would pi$$ me off too.


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[Luwabra]

I rode 60 mi gravel last weekend met 4 cars zero from behind. That why I’m off the hard surface roads.

[Hilltopperny]

Glad you made it home alright. I have gravitated towards riding trails and such because of douchey drivers. I had a big truck buzz me yesterday without anybody on the opposite side of the road. It’s quite a frustrating feeling when we as cyclists don’t get any space or people intentionally come too close.

At least there are great choices for gravel and mountain bikes these days. I really enjoy the dirt and gravel roads where I live and prefer them these days to the pavement.


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[Blown Reek]

You have way too many bikes to give up road riding.

[R3awak3n]

I had pretty much only good experiences when I was out in PDX a few years ago for a few months. Very respectful for the most part but there are assholes everywhere.

I have had some bad experiences lately and why I made that thread "everyone hates us" because this past month it really feels to me that everyone hates cyclists. I don't have an answer but I sure as **** not going to stop doing what I like because of some aholes.

[thwart]

You have way too many bikes to give up road riding.
That didn't stop me... so several folks here are riding 'ex-thwart' bikes...

[Clean39T]

You have way too many bikes to give up road riding.

I've had way too many bikes. I currently only have three. One of which is a gravel/cross rig. And I'd (painfully) let one of the other two go if need be...

[Clean39T]

I had pretty much only good experiences when I was out in PDX a few years ago for a few months. Very respectful for the most part but there are assholes everywhere.

I have had some bad experiences lately and why I made that thread "everyone hates us" because this past month it really feels to me that everyone hates cyclists. I don't have an answer but I sure as **** not going to stop doing what I like because of some aholes.

Thanks for the commissary. I don't want to stop either. Maybe just shift focus and add in some other two-wheel fun to reduce the statistical exposure rate.

[Clean39T]

I rode 60 mi gravel last weekend met 4 cars zero from behind. That why I’m off the hard surface roads.

Unfortunately...I'm not in Iowa...but I do think there are good places to gravel/fire-road ride here...at least as long as I'm in Portland anyway...just have to drive to them is all...

[daker13]

I like to believe that the more people there are riding their bikes on their roads, the better it's going to get, but there's a ton of anger in the US right now (and I'm not immune to it either).

If a truck farts smoke at you or tries to run you off the road, I don't think it's out of line to call the the 1-800 'how's my driving?' number and tell whoever answers the phone, "It sucks."

[Clean39T]

I like to believe that the more people there are riding their bikes on their roads, the better it's going to get, but there's a ton of anger in the US right now (and I'm not immune to it either).

If a truck farts smoke at you or tries to run you off the road, I don't think it's out of line to call the the 1-800 'how's my driving?' number and tell whoever answers the phone, "It sucks."

It's not box-vans, it's the jackholes who drive these illegal pieces of ****:

http://dieseltruckgallery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/andrew-hines-2-624x416.jpg

[bikinchris]

I wish there was a way to make a national database to log these encounters with aggresive drivers to see trends. These people are probably doing these illegal acts daily.

On the other hand, people who ride bikes need to take care of their own business and ask each other to follow traffic law. Don't give more fuel to the fire.

[ultraman6970]

Hey clean...Whats your saddle height :D SHoes size? Height?

[hollowgram5]

This is a lot of why I don't ride much down here in Mississippi. Roads are crappy and narrow, and most people are okay but there's a series of jackholes that behave the same way.

[Seramount]

there's either something in the air or the moon is in the wrong phase, because the last two days of riding have been pretty nightmarish for me.

things started with me sitting at a red light in a bike lane and having an older Chevy Suburban right-hooking me as it turned green. no turn signal, no nothing...guy just jammed the accelerator and cut across my line.

an hour later, had a green light at an intersection when a woman coming from the opposite direction ran a very stale red light and turned in front of me.

went out the next day assuming things would be calmer...wrong.

again, in a dedicated bike lane, a woman passed me with the entire right half of her vehicle inside my space. probably had less than 6 inches separating us...she turned at the next cross street and I followed her to her residence.
when I asked why the brush-by pass, she seemed completely amazed that there was any issue with her driving. got an apology, but it wasn't very convincing...her attitude seemed to indicate that since she didn't actually make contact with me, there really wasn't a problem.

the next encounter involved another woman who came up from up behind (no bike lane this time) and laid on the horn like I was supposed to immediately vaporize. was rolling at 20+ mph and ~100 ft from a red light, so just held my line and ignored her impatience.

had just started to brake slightly for the red when I noticed the driver cutting thru a parking lot to jump in front of me...however, the light went green and I was able to make the turn at speed which put me in her path and she had to slam on her brakes. much honking ensued, then she passed me at full throttle, swerved back in front and then gave me a serious brake-check.

a real road rage event...

since I have no interest in off-road riding, that leaves me with the road and the insanity...

not quite ready to bail on the sport yet. but, after being hit twice in the last two years and having the kinds of encounters described above, it might happen sooner rather than later.

[john903]

Wow I am sorry for your rough day and feel for you. As someone else suggested maybe a combination of road, gravel, mt bike. From the list of your bikes it looks like you used to ride mountain bikes a lot maybe it is time to revisit them. I live in quiet Sequim on the Olympic peninsula and we have lots of options to make a great road ride. I combine bike trail, gravel logging roads with pavement all in one ride and that helps keep me out of traffic. Also you may want to try going early in the morning. In summer when it gets light real early I will go out at 5:30 for a few hours and it is great. I always notice later in the day traffic has increased and I am glad I went out early. So just some options to look at. If your like me I could never give up road riding but I will make allowances for it.
I hope you have a better day tomorrow.

[smead]

I've experienced more than my share of near misses with distracted drivers immersed in their technology. Although less common, intentional buzzes or actually having someone try and hit me are the ones that truly get me unglued, and I have to say that this season, I have experienced this way more than in the past. As cyclists we are minorities, and haters of minorities are in full bloom these days, hate seems to be more "OK", haters feel more emboldened and less fearful of consequences. I won't offer up the obvious reason why this is, otherwise the thread will get locked down quick. Stay safe out there, spread some love and good karma, it'll get back eventually. I do find myself now waving at just about every car that gives me space and passes with care.

[peanutgallery]

Tomorrow I'm going to get up early and drive about 15 minutes and park in a gravel lot in a local state forest. Then I'll pedal my new stumpjumper for 3 to 4 hours in some incredible singletrack, pull out the awning, set up my chair, consume exactly 2 all day IPAs and amble home for a cookout with the family. All with a big smile. There may be some moments of creek sitting, too

This wasn't the case until the road bikes went away. There's no shortage of morons in the world and many of them are self centered and most drive cars. Not worth the fight, but I do hope they lose a rod or something because they let someone at Walmart change their oil

[R3awak3n]

I have been thinking about buying one of these

- https://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/garmin-varia-radar-2-rtl510-rear-light

I was not convinced about its functionality when it came out but since I ride a lone a lot and in country roads most of the time I can see it being pretty useful. Also having a light at all times helps.

[sitzmark]

I wish there was a way to make a national database to log these encounters with aggresive drivers to see trends. These people are probably doing these illegal acts daily.

On the other hand, people who ride bikes need to take care of their own business and ask each other to follow traffic law. Don't give more fuel to the fire.

Already done ... just need to use it. https://closecalldatabase.com

[fiamme red]

I have been thinking about buying one of these

- https://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/garmin-varia-radar-2-rtl510-rear-light

I was not convinced about its functionality when it came out but since I ride a lone a lot and in country roads most of the time I can see it being pretty useful. Also having a light at all times helps.I've never thought much about running a rear blinky in the daytime. But yesterday, I was riding for a few miles on suburban roads a few hundred yards behind a cyclist who was using one, and I was surprised at what a difference it made.

[Hilltopperny]

I have noticed that a rear light does help



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[Ken Robb]

I think we are in more danger from distracted drivers than those who want to teach us a lesson. It will only get worse as more and more drivers get more and more distracting technology.

[Clean39T]

These people clearly saw me. Or rather, they saw a cyclist they didn't give a **** about and chose to endanger "it's" life. Maybe I should ride naked so it's more clear I'm a living, breathing human.

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[berserk87]

I too had an episode this week. A pickup hauling a trailer honked at me, passed me, and then made an immediate right turn in front of me.

There was a group of riders about a mile behind me that were riding double column and taking up a lot of road. My guess is that he was angry at them, but took it out on me.

I have a friend that rides with 2 Go Pro cameras - one on his bars and one on the chain stay. He has forwarded video to our county sheriff at least once due to a aggressively close pass and subsequent middle finger. The sheriff paid a visit to that driver based on the video footage. Needless to say, the guy tried to lie about the episode, until the deputy showed him the video. Then they guy felt like a complete douche. Wish I could have been there to see his face.

[Clean39T]

Tomorrow I'm going to get up early and drive about 15 minutes and park in a gravel lot in a local state forest. Then I'll pedal my new stumpjumper for 3 to 4 hours in some incredible singletrack, pull out the awning, set up my chair, consume exactly 2 all day IPAs and amble home for a cookout with the family. All with a big smile. There may be some moments of creek sitting, too

This wasn't the case until the road bikes went away. There's no shortage of morons in the world and many of them are self centered and most drive cars. Not worth the fight, but I do hope they lose a rod or something because they let someone at Walmart change their oilName checks out...

But srsly, you've got a point. Just be sure those are session IPAs so you stay good and alert on your drive home.

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[peanutgallery]

https://foundersbrewing.com/our-beer/all-day-ipa/

Getting a DUI is no way to wind up a relaxing weekend

Name checks out...

But srsly, you've got a point. Just be sure those are session IPAs so you stay good and alert on your drive home.

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[redir]

Sorry to hear it man. IDK about Portland OR (assuming that is where you are from since it says so in your info) but here in Appalachian VA we have our fair share of red necks who think that we are all a bunch of gays riding on their streets tryin' to take their guns or something...

So a buddy of mine did an experiment. He got an American flag jersey and I swear to you it's like when they see that thing waving in front of their faces they automatically think you are on their side, that you are one of us.

I'm not kidding either.

[buddybikes]

Honestly, glad my daughters aren't riders anymore. Hiking bit safer.

Wife and I were in our kayaks, where if I f' up it is my fault

[peanutgallery]

You'll get some mileage out of this one, probably banned in California

http://d3d71ba2asa5oz.cloudfront.net/82000016/images/donttreadback.jpg

Sorry to hear it man. IDK about Portland OR (assuming that is where you are from since it says so in your info) but here in Appalachian VA we have our fair share of red necks who think that we are all a bunch of gays riding on their streets tryin' to take their guns or something...

So a buddy of mine did an experiment. He got an American flag jersey and I swear to you it's like when they see that thing waving in front of their faces they automatically think you are on their side, that you are one of us.

I'm not kidding either.

[ducati2]

Funny, I had a bad day with drivers today too. One woman put me in danger twice. I did something I never do....I gave her the finger on episode two. She stopped in the rode and rolled down the window to scream at me about my low place in humanity and I should have just quietly rolled on. I calmly explained to her how her actions put me in danger just so she could pass me and tailgate the slow moving vehicle in front of us. That conversation didnt go well. I went on a walk when I got home and really thought about my response to her and wished I hadn’t done it.

[greengage]

I have been thinking about buying one of these



- https://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/garmin-varia-radar-2-rtl510-rear-light



I was not convinced about its functionality when it came out but since I ride a lone a lot and in country roads most of the time I can see it being pretty useful. Also having a light at all times helps.



That is crazy awesome. I may grab one. Along with a go-pro to review license plates later.


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[monkeybanana86]

I was ready to call it quits a couple of years ago. San Francisco area is just getting too crowded and everyone (not just drivers) is in a hurry and also the most important person in the world.
I found a whole new world of riding in the trails that I never realized were all around.
Maybe just take some time off? I took the bus for a while but couldn't stay away from commuting by bike and have been enjoying it again.

Stay safe!

[thwart]

So a buddy of mine did an experiment. He got an American flag jersey and I swear to you it's like when they see that thing waving in front of their faces they automatically think you are on their side, that you are one of us.

I'm not kidding either.

Tribalism. It's much more obvious and prevalent than it was 20 yrs ago.

Take politics, for example... :help:

I try to humanize my presence when I ride as much as possible... wave, smile, that sort of thing. And of course, good road manners helps a bunch, too.

[PacNW2Ford]

This ^^^ People are people, bad actors in every tribe...

[R3awak3n]

That is crazy awesome. I may grab one. Along with a go-pro to review license plates later.


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yea I just watched the dc rainmaker review and thinking might pick one up this weekend. Its nice that it now has a light so its 2 in 1. Also cool that it can track more than 1 car behind you. Its pretty cool tech.

[R3awak3n]

Funny, I had a bad day with drivers today too. One woman put me in danger twice. I did something I never do....I gave her the finger on episode two. She stopped in the rode and rolled down the window to scream at me about my low place in humanity and I should have just quietly rolled on. I calmly explained to her how her actions put me in danger just so she could pass me and tailgate the slow moving vehicle in front of us. That conversation didnt go well. I went on a walk when I got home and really thought about my response to her and wished I hadn’t done it.

I did this last weekend. Flicked the guy off. Made it worst, he stoped and started revving his audi with his crappy after market exaust. Then I pulled up and he started revving it again , then stoped again and I really thought he was gonna try something. The whole rest of ride I was scared he was gonna come from behind me and push me off the road. Better to keep fingers to myself but I do want to get some mace, just in case.

[redir]

Tribalism. It's much more obvious and prevalent than it was 20 yrs ago.

Take politics, for example... :help:

I try to humanize my presence when I ride as much as possible... wave, smile, that sort of thing. And of course, good road manners helps a bunch, too.

Absolutely. Nothing better then a wave and a smile for good advocacy.

You'll get some mileage out of this one, probably banned in California

http://d3d71ba2asa5oz.cloudfront.net/82000016/images/donttreadback.jpg

That would be a good one too. Virginia actually has a license plate with that one it. I was thinking a NASCAR jersey or Busch Light :D

[Red Tornado]

I still road ride, for now, but only during daylight hours. No dawn or dusk, either.

In my experience there has most def been an uptick in car vs. bike incidents both personally and as told to me by other riders in this area.

A few reasons in no particular order:
-Distracted driving
-Entitled, impatient, "it's all about me" drivers who HAVE to get from point A to point B NOW (even though they don't)
-I feel as though society overall has started to become less polite, mannered, respectful, etc. over the last several years. This manifests itself in many different circumstances, including: having to wait that extra 6 seconds behind a bike, redneck in his diesel dually telling his friends "hey ya'll watch this" just because he can, and others.....

Used to commute to work quite a bit, but early-morning tiredness (I guess) caused many drivers to nearly take me out no matter how brightly lit up I was. Defensive riding only goes so far sometimes. No bike paths or lanes on my route to work unfortunately, either. Finally quit commuting (and wasn't happy about the loss of the extra ~75 miles/week), but the alternative was becoming less attractive for myself and the fam.

[Red Tornado]

Sharing another's (binxnyrwarrsoul) comment from another thread, kind of goes here as well....

Maybe it's because I'm on the road a lot more than most but this aggressive, get out of my way, my nail appointment/golf appointment is more important than your life attitude is an epidemic and getting worse.

[earlfoss]

Definitely quit if you feel that way.

[gasman]

I’ve been using a Dinotte Quad rear light for the last couple of years. I think it helps draw attention to me. Most drivers in the Eugene area are pretty nice but of course I got flipped off 2 weeks ago by a guy in a Corvette. Clear straight road, one car, one bicyclist and a driver who needs anger management . I gave him a huge open handed wave in return. There are jerks everywhere aren’t there.
I like the idea of front and rear cameras but haven’t made the leap.

Clean - I’m bummed to hear you had so many bad encounters in Portland. I ride up there with friends occasionally and never had an issue. Touch wood.
I like trail riding and mtn biking but I love the ability to roll out my front door and ride 10- 100 miles.

[m4rk540]

Clean39, don't let your story become that of the highly respected and possibly envied Paceline member who died from a household accident. That gentleman who had gone through countless high end bikes, after escaping a Justice Department prosecution for defrauding the federal government for hundreds of millions, decided that other risks, such as road riding were not worth it. If I recall correctly, he gave up road for mtb, and then at the young age of late 50s, he succumbed to an indoor fall.

Let's not live in fear. Of the government or public roads.

[BobO]

Just a quick word of caution. There's a lot of assumptions being made in this thread about other's intentions. Those assumptions may or may not be correct, but, it's generally best not to build a persona for someone else in your own mind based upon a single moment in time and our own bias.

[skouri1]

I want to try a rear day light as well, though I haven't yet ponied up for the Dinotte. need to.

I got hit last october, and found that getting my confidence back involved a lot of group riding/ riding with buddies.
I always find that cars are better when you ride, respectively in a group of 2-3 or more. (20 and its good).
can't dissuade all jerks, but it helps.

Oh yea, and dont give someone the finger. I did it a few times. But havent for several years at least. Sometimes, it's irrepressible when someone almost kills you or does something reckless, but if you can take the extra second to stop yourself, it's always prudent. who knows who they are. it can't make the situation better.

[Clean39T]

Clean39, don't let your story become that of the highly respected and possibly envied Paceline member who died from a household accident. That gentleman who had gone through countless high end bikes, after escaping a Justice Department prosecution for defrauding the federal government for hundreds of millions, decided that other risks, such as road riding were not worth it. If I recall correctly, he gave up road for mtb, and then at the young age of late 50s, he succumbed to an indoor fall.

Let's not live in fear. Of the government or public roads.I'm not depressed or paranoid, just frustrated and feeling disappointedly woke today.

Living has a 100% risk of death. My number will eventually be called, regardless.

It's just sad that our society is devolving the way that it is.

I think folks nailed it above. It's the culture of selfishness. It's tribalism in religion and politics. It's media and movies and video games.

I'm the smilingest, wavingest rider you'll find. I love the way the world looks from the seat of a bicycle. I love that two-mins before one of the incidents above, I exchanged waves with a couple in their 80's sitting on their porch having coffee - a couple that had a giant flag in their front yard and a land-yacht for a motorhome. They weren't hippies. But it also seemed like they didn't care that I was a crazy dude in Lycra on a bike who'd ridden out from the city - to them I was another human with a smile and the sun on his face.

I do think the good people generally outnumber the ignorant cornholes of the world. Unfortunately, it only takes one cornhole to spoil the whole party and right now, I'm losing the ability to ignore that.

I'm not going to stop riding on the road. But I am going to put effort into being sure that isn't all that I do. And I'm going to be more discriminating about where and when I ride - might even have to start driving to more road-heads further out in the country...

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[OtayBW]

I admit that I have become increasingly cautious and troubled by the growing presence of jackasses on the road, but 1) I don't care for single track riding, 2) I might be up for some gravel riding, and 3) I'm going to continue to do what I like best which is road riding. Part of that is that I'm fortunate in that there is pretty good riding around here, and I am pretty selective about where I will and will not ride, but on balance, it's not so bad around here that I would consider giving up road riding. Some have. I'm not ready for that. I don't think that's necessary around here.

[Clean39T]

Just a quick word of caution. There's a lot of assumptions being made in this thread about other's intentions. Those assumptions may or may not be correct, but, it's generally best not to build a persona for someone else in your own mind based upon a single moment in time and our own bias.That's true. My default is to not do that - I generally assume people driving impatiently have diarreha and are trying to make it to a bathroom. Today tested my ability to take that view though. Hence the rant.

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[thwart]

Oh yea, and dont give someone the finger. I did it a few times. But havent for several years at least. Sometimes, it's irrepressible when someone almost kills you or does something reckless, but if you can take the extra second to stop yourself, it's always prudent. who knows who they are. it can't make the situation better.
Exactly. When someone does something really obnoxious, and I'm tempted to flip 'em the bird... it helps me to remember that anyone with those tendencies likely has a gun in the glovebox... or on their person.

This is especially true with the recently relaxed gun laws here in the Dairyland.

Count to ten. Smile and wave. :rolleyes:

[BobO]

That's true. My default is to not do that - I generally assume people driving impatiently have diarreha and are trying to make it to a bathroom. Today tested my ability to take that view though. Hence the rant.

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Trust me, I get it. We've all been there, it's just helpful sometimes to hear a calming voice to bring us down.

[type2sam]

When I re-awoke to the idea of riding a bike 9 years ago (with 40 in the headlights) I stuck to the roads because that's all I knew.

Throw in a few close calls, a love of the woods, the bucolic splendor of the countryside, and GPS capability, and I've switched to largely focusing on stitching together mixed terrain rides that minimize my exposure to the immature, distracted and often inebriated or otherwise disabled (it's not uncommon to smell weed wafting from car windows at intersections these days) drivers who ply our roadways today. If I do ride on roads, I focus on making sure those roads haven't been captured by Google Streetview. I even avoid driving in a car if I can as 75% of the time when I look at the car in the next lane over, the driver is buried in their phone.

My road bikes gather dust. My cross bike is my every bike.

[Spinner]

I started riding multi-speed bikes on distance rides starting in 1972. During that period of time, I have ridden in numerous states throughout the continental U.S. (and Hawaii) and have endured numerous threats to my well being.

Three years ago I invested in a Dinotte Quad for primarily daytime rides and I WILL NOT RIDE WITHOUT IT.

Get one and you will notice immediately a difference in the way traffic passes you.

There are no absolutes as distracted drivers will always be there, however they can't miss seeing a Dinotte.

BTW, I have gifted multiple Dinottes to biking friends.

[joosttx]

Clean- I dont think you are going to find a solace in Folsom. Better get a mountain bike too. :)

[Clean39T]

Clean- I dont think you are going to find a solace in Folsom. Better get a mountain bike too. :)Reno? Auburn? Nevada City? I know...they're everywhere...but the AR trail is at least a thing...

And I did get a MTB [emoji16] - just hasn't been delivered.

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[Clean39T]

I started riding multi-speed bikes on distance rides starting in 1972. During that period of time, I have ridden in numerous states throughout the continental U.S. (and Hawaii) and have endured numerous threats to my well being.

Three years ago I invested in a Dinotte Quad for primarily daytime rides and I WILL NOT RIDE WITHOUT IT.

Get one and you will notice immediately a difference in the way traffic passes you.

There are no absolutes as distracted drivers will always be there, however they can't miss seeing a Dinotte.

BTW, I have gifted multiple Dinottes to biking friends.This package?

http://store.dinottelighting.com/mobile/2018-quad-amber-headlight-with-2018-quad-red-taillight-package-p197.aspx

I have Bontrager Flare lights already...

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[Hellgate]

Desert Eagle.

[tkbike]

I was also flipped off while riding today, but I also flipped off a driver earlier in the day...I am also ashamed of myself for stooping to that level. The driver pulled up next to me at a traffic light and called me a d-bag...that proved to me his IQ, stupidity,ignorance...as that is one of the most derogatory terms in the English language. Anyone that uses that term is obviously a total classless piece of sheet that has more problems than can be dealt with a traffic light. I just laughed and thought to myself...I’m an idiot for flipping him off, but I’m not that low!

[Clean39T]

I was also flipped off while riding today, but I also flipped off a driver earlier in the day...I am also ashamed of myself for stooping to that level. The driver pulled up next to me at a traffic light and called me a d-bag...that proved to me his IQ, stupidity,ignorance...as that is one of the most derogatory terms in the English language. Anyone that uses that term is obviously a total classless piece of sheet that has more problems than can be dealt with a traffic light. I just laughed and thought to myself...I’m an idiot for flipping him off, but I’m not that low!

Seinfeld had a back n' forth in one of the more recent Comedians in Cars about where the d-bag term came from and how random the insult is...and since then my wife and I have been calling people handtowels...

[kookmyers]

And I did get a MTB [emoji16] - just hasn't been delivered.



Which one? I am honestly considering a bikesdirect bike for tooling around.....

[Clean39T]

Which one? I am honestly considering a bikesdirect bike for tooling around.....

It's used and was listed on here. Honestly, with the deals that can be had on previous model used MTBs, it's hard to buy new. If you're okay with the awful, horrible, outdated, ridiculous technology from 2017 that is...

[FlashUNC]

Riding off road has it's own challenges. Once saw a couple guys with a near miss as they were almost t-boned by a bear coming out of the woods on Mendocino Pass. Bear didn't even yield at the crossing.

[Clean39T]

..

[rain dogs]

I hear you. And heck... you're in Oregon which is more bike friendly than a lot of places (although that often just adds to the conflicts at times as a small minority of drivers seem to hate being in a "bike-positive" region and go out of their way to make themselves known about it.)

Anyway, save your one favorite road bike, even if it just collects dust, and treat yourself once in a while to a road "trip". Somewhere in Europe - Spain, France Italy, Belgium, Switzerland whatever. Way fewer a-holes and the riding is such a pleasure.

Hell, come to Asturias and I'll shown you around. There are so few cars here on lots of routes that I get startled when I see one, but at least it keeps one honest on decents.

[jumphigher]

I didnt read this whole thread but understand you're feelings very well, OP. I moved from Portland about a year ago to Richmond. Had plenty of problems over the years there with aggressive drivers on my daily 30-60 mile training rides.
Things have been better here, generally most people are very accomodating, but.. there's the occasional assh*ole that purposly comes really close, or is obviously tring to force me into the ditch. The roads where I ride are really narrow, and people drive fast, so I also worry about an unskilled driver simply hitting me by accident. I've had some close calls, and get regular use of my middle finger, as well.

I'm planning on eventually giving up road riding, it's just too dangerous, imo. I dont tell my wife most of the incidences, she like yours, isnt too crazy about my riding the roads with cars either. Also she rides with me sometimes, so we'll probably switch to trails eventually.

And now I'm off to my 40 mile 6am ride.. :banana:

[HenryA]

I had a discussion about this with my wife yesterday as we drove onto “town”. The discussion was instigated by seeing the many, many riders who frequent the area. My comment was that many were riding on routes that I had given up literally decades ago. Those routes that used to be nearly empty roads are now well populated with traffic.

I’m glad that I have been able to move out and away from the madness. But lots of folks have not an continue to ride in places that are not really conducive to safety. Whether we like it or not we’re like cats in a world full of big dogs. There are lots of roads that we can legally ride, but just aren’t safe. I choose to ride where I feel like I have a good chance of survival.

As BobO wrote earlier, ascribing motives to other people’s actions probably isn’t the answer. I don’t think its political, or tribe based, its just people. I have known lots of riders over the years who have been of most every political and socioeconomic persuasion. The common factor is they all like bicycling. I have also heard plenty of comments from people who wonder why anyone rides a bike on the road. The words have come from all kinds of people.

[oldpotatoe]

I just don't get the animosity and general loathsome behavior of people in cars. Maybe I'm just unlucky. Maybe I'm overly sensitive today for some reason. But goddamit, I don't want to be a statistic. And as much as I love riding road bikes, I'm seriously having a hard time justifying it at this point. There are other ways to enjoy two-wheel fun. I guess its time to go find them.

Hard to say why. People are anxious these days, angry, distracted..they take it out in their cars. Gravel is keen but not the high speed, winding, wind in yer hair stuff like a really good road. I ride ONLY places where there's a big shoulder, I ride like an old man(very defensive) but I'm also pretty militant when I see other road guys do stupid things..like run red lights and stop signs..or ride 3-4 abreast with cars behind the. NO reason to purposely try to piss off these angry people more, IMHO.

[Spinner]

This package?

http://store.dinottelighting.com/mobile/2018-quad-amber-headlight-with-2018-quad-red-taillight-package-p197.aspx

I have Bontrager Flare lights already...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I only have the Quad rear light.

[HenryA]

hard to say why. People are anxious these days, angry, distracted..they take it out in their cars. Gravel is keen but not the high speed, winding, wind in yer hair stuff like a really good road. I ride only places where there's a big shoulder, i ride like an old man(very defensive) but i'm also pretty militant when i see other road guys do stupid things..like run red lights and stop signs..or ride 3-4 abreast with cars behind the. No reason to purposely try to piss off these angry people more, imho.

+1000

[Kirk007]

Clean, the Dinotte rear and Amber front are a level above other blinkies.

Driver aggression is higher than I anticipated even on bucolic Bainbridge island but I'm learning all the little back roads and there's a reasonable number of fairly mellow trails to piece together mixed surface rides. Had some great road riding in Bend last week - lotsa riders. Lots low traffic country roads out of town.

But I definitely am picking rides/routes/times with aggressive driver avoiance in mind.

G

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[bigbill]

Hard to say why. People are anxious these days, angry, distracted..they take it out in their cars. Gravel is keen but not the high speed, winding, wind in yer hair stuff like a really good road. I ride ONLY places where there's a big shoulder, I ride like an old man(very defensive) but I'm also pretty militant when I see other road guys do stupid things..like run red lights and stop signs..or ride 3-4 abreast with cars behind the. NO reason to purposely try to piss off these angry people more, IMHO.

That's the thing here. The drivers here are overwhelmingly friendly, it's the NE Texas default response, if you don't understand something just be courteous. But in the last 6 years since I arrived, the local group has gotten bigger, riding longer distances, and exhibited worse behavior. I just won't ride with them anymore. Running lights, diving corners into oncoming traffic hoping there's not a car, and having no idea how to ride in a paceline. We're almost two hours from anywhere with a decent sized cycling population that would have group rides, so the locals here have no idea what to do. But the stuff they do would get them kicked out of a group. My concern is the goodwill of the local drivers will get tested beyond what they'll tolerate and we'll hear about some guy running over a group.

[Clean39T]

Clean, the Dinotte rear and Amber front are a level above other blinkies.

Driver aggression is higher than I anticipated even on bucolic Bainbridge island but I'm learning all the little back roads and there's a reasonable number of fairly mellow trails to piece together mixed surface rides. Had some great road riding in Bend last week - lotsa riders. Lots low traffic country roads out of town.

But I definitely am picking rides/routes/times with aggressive driver avoiance in mind.

G

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Thanks G - that's where I'm landing too I guess - more riding in the city, less out in the ex-urbs, and more stitching things together with dirt roads and country lanes. Who knows, maybe this will push me to race more - closed courses and all that... Or take up velodrome racing. lolz.

Happy to hear good stuff about Bend for you too. I'll be looking for some ride reviews of your new rig(s).

[Burnette]

This is my rant. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

I've generally gone numb to the prickish behavior of motorists I encounter on most of my rides. I've learned to ride very defensively, to expect right and left hooks, etc. I've even shrugged off d-bags with hyper inferiority-complexes who think their manhood is somehow confirmed by rolling diesel in my face.

But four times today I almost got intentionally hit or run off the road, and it's just gotten under my skin more than ever before. So much so that I actually told my wife about it...a dicey move considering she already doesn't like me riding on the road...and am pretty much feeling like I want to just focus on gravel, cross, and mtb - with an occasional organized road event.

And when I say intentionally hit or run off the road, I mean situations where there was no reason at all for a $100K BMW to give me 6-inches of clearance at 50-60mph, with me going 35mph in a 40mph zone, or someone in an expensive big-a$$ truck pulling up behind me and then flooring their diesel while swerving toward me just for fun, or someone swerving into oncoming traffic and then back over and into the bike lane right in front of me rather than waiting 20 seconds until it was safe to pass. Oh, and the topper, I'm going 35-40mph down a hill in a 35mph zone - I get a big gust of wind off a truck going in the opposite direction up the hill, probably going 60mph, and that wind gives me a speed wobble, so I slow down a bit and the car behind me lays on their horn like I've spoiled their day by slowing down to 30mph for 100ft.

I just don't get the animosity and general loathsome behavior of people in cars. Maybe I'm just unlucky. Maybe I'm overly sensitive today for some reason. But goddamit, I don't want to be a statistic. And as much as I love riding road bikes, I'm seriously having a hard time justifying it at this point. There are other ways to enjoy two-wheel fun. I guess its time to go find them.

/rant-off

It may be just the time of day. I hated my old schedule but weekdays I had from 9am to 1:30pm to ride. I love my new schedule but it took away my mourning rides and there's too much traffic on our two lane country roads after 5pm. So I ride the rollers downstairs and catch a road ride during the weekends.

For me it's all about place and time. Things have changed but I fit it in where I can. If I only had the late evening hours to ride I wouldn't do it at all.

Edited to add that I too have Dinotte lights, they are awesome. Over the years I have had a few drivers comment on how bright they were.

[Peter P.]

...The driver pulled up next to me at a traffic light and called me a d-bag...

The best response to some driver who utters a profanity at you is,
"You kiss your mother with that mouth?"

I've never seen such a simple statement reduce people to backpedaling.

[R3awak3n]

I just got back from a ride and was actually thinking about this. All sorts of people passed me and you can't really generalized. I had ppl on big trucks give me a ton of space and people in subarus not giving me space at all. New plan, thank everyone that gives me space. Maybe that will make people know how appreciative I am and have em keep doing it

[bigbill]

I just got back from a ride and was actually thinking about this. All sorts of people passed me and you can't really generalized. I had ppl on big trucks give me a ton of space and people in subarus not giving me space at all. New plan, thank everyone that gives me space. Maybe that will make people know how appreciative I am and have em keep doing it

My first weekend in Paris, TX, I was riding on a rural Farm to Market road and stopped at a T to look at my Garmin. A guy rolled up in a diesel Dodge Ram pickup and asked if I was ok or needed a ride somewhere. I told him I was ok, just checking a map to see which was to go. He said if I was turning left to let him know so he could get his dogs.

[SpeedyChix]

Clean, the Dinotte rear and Amber front are a level above other blinkies.

But I definitely am picking rides/routes/times with aggressive driver avoiance in mind.



We've become more selective about time of day that we ride, tend to head to gravel or back roads.

Added the Dinotte front and rear and they are brighter/bolder than most and quite effective. Even on the paved main roads, drivers seem to respond and respect us with the lights going. Noted improvement. We give waves and thumbs up when we get wide or full lane passes.

For those who say "but they're so expensive": if it helps save your life they're a bargain.

[Hellgate]

My first weekend in Paris, TX, I was riding on a rural Farm to Market road and stopped at a T to look at my Garmin. A guy rolled up in a diesel Dodge Ram pickup and asked if I was ok or needed a ride somewhere. I told him I was ok, just checking a map to see which was to go. He said if I was turning left to let him know so he could get his dogs.Good to hear. Years ago, 14/15 or so, when I was in the Army National Guard, we'd train at Camp Maxy. I'd throw my Davidson in one of the trucks for our convoy from Dallas to Paris. I'd usually manage to get in one or two 25 mile rides over drill weekend. I never had any issues with cars. Nice roads up there too.

In Austin I've not had a problem in a month or so. A drunk WASP, 60 YO, beeotch, pulled up next to me at a light and started yelling at me. I asked, "Isn't it early to be drinking?" She got more pissed so I pulled the phone out and asked, "Shall I can the police so we can discuss this further?" She punched it and drove off in her clapped out Expedition...people...

[cmbicycles]

I didnt read this whole thread but understand you're feelings very well, OP. I moved from Portland about a year ago to Richmond. Had plenty of problems over the years there with aggressive drivers on my daily 30-60 mile training rides.
Things have been better here, generally most people are very accomodating, but.. there's the occasional assh*ole that purposly comes really close, or is obviously tring to force me into the ditch. The roads where I ride are really narrow, and people drive fast, so I also worry about an unskilled driver simply hitting me by accident. I've had some close calls, and get regular use of my middle finger, as well.

I'm planning on eventually giving up road riding, it's just too dangerous, imo. I dont tell my wife most of the incidences, she like yours, isnt too crazy about my riding the roads with cars either. Also she rides with me sometimes, so we'll probably switch to trails eventually.

And now I'm off to my 40 mile 6am ride.. :banana:
Try to ride the loop out at West Creek 6-8 times or so... boring, but on weekends its a nice place to ride/run. Not sure where in Richmond you are, but I also find the riding out in Goochland/Rockville areas pretty good. Of course there are still certain times of day I won't ride anywhere, but that's my take.

[weisan]

I approached this two ways and they have drastically reduced the angst and stress involved with road riding.


First - the route.

I have become very picky and intentional when it comes to where I ride. I don't even bother with riding on urban area or highways anymore, even if they have big shoulders. I just don't. I know this may not be practical for some people depending on where they live. I am out in the country in less than 2-3 miles from the house so that makes things easier. I don't mind doing the same route for the umpteen times because it's better than risking the alternative of riding in high-traffic, noisy and hazardous areas.

http://alicehui.com/bike/misc/IMG_8455.jpg


Second - I started attaching a small rearview mirror that I rigged up with Velcro strap somewhere around the bend on the left side of my handlebar. It's relatively small and inconspicuous. And what it does is, it allows me to see the cars coming up behind me 1/2 mile away. As they approach and get closer where I know they can see me clearly and have enough time to react, I will stick my hand out quickly and then pull back way before they pass. 100% of the time...yes, this has not failed yet, not even once, I observed that the car would either move to the left and create a space before they pass or stay behind until it's safe to pass and there are no incoming traffic from the opposite lane. It's almost a natural reaction. They are responding to a human being who is requesting that they acknowledge his presence and please allow him some space and safety. It doesn't matter who they are...rednecks, big diesel truck, bus, truck pulling trailer, sports car, whatever you can think of, as soon as they see my hand out, they all started to move to the left. And after they pass, I would give them a wave to say "thank you" and I will make sure I do it when they can see me from their rear mirror. Because I really want to thank them in person if possible for being so understanding and humane. Ever since I instituted this safety feature to my riding, I have never encountered another instance of cars coming up too close to me. And I prefer this to the ones attached to helmets.

This is an advice that I only give out to people who are seriously interested in making their rides safer. It's field-tested and it really works. If you want to come and criticize this idea, I prefer that you just shut your mouth and don't say anything, just F.O. especially if you haven't try it yourself, you have no right to criticize. We are talking about personal safety and peace of mind so it's worth the extra trouble and suffering a bit on the "style" points or aerodynamics.

Oh, and that behavior that I see some of my riding buddies do...in "asserting your rights" by riding further out the road and thereby making it unsafe for cars to pass....that's the absolute worst thing you can do to anger and irritate drivers. They don't respond to that well. It's counter-productive. It doesn't work. It's dumb.

Lastly, this is a two-way street. Many times, I have either pull to the side or slow down and let others pass because I don't want to endanger them or put the driver in a difficult situation. This can't be just about us, we are sharing the road...so, share.

[mcteague]

My approach these days is to pick times with the least traffic, this means after 9AM on weekdays or early on weekends. I stick to smaller roads when I can and avoid any long stretches of straight road. This is when drivers feel they can check their phones and not go off the road. No matter how stupid they are, chances are phone checking is at a minimum on curvy roads. I now sport a CygoLite Hotshot Pro rear light. I also wear a white helmet and mostly light colored jerseys. I never understand why cyclists wear black ones!

Where I live there are no real gravel roads of any length and my mt bike days are behind me so road riding it is. I am under no illusion this makes me completely safe but every little bit helps.

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE]This is an advice that I only give out to people who are seriously interested in making their rides safer. It's field-tested and it really works. If you want to come and criticize this idea, I prefer that you just shut your mouth and don't say anything, just F.O. especially if you haven't try it yourself, you have no right to criticize. We are talking about personal safety and peace of mind so it's worth the extra trouble and suffering a bit on the "style" points or aerodynamics.
The truth is, this is a community of many voices.

:eek:
So much for the 'one big happy family with lotsa points of view' forum concept..get off the wrong side of the bike this morning -'pal'??

[ducati2]

Wow....That’s one of the most amazing things I have read on Paceline, and that’s saying something!

[FlashUNC]

I approached this two ways and they have drastically reduced the angst and stress involved with road riding.


First - the route.

I have become very picky and intentional when it comes to where I ride. I don't even bother with riding on urban area or highways anymore, even if they have big shoulders. I just don't. I know this may not be practical for some people depending on where they live. I am out in the country in less than 2-3 miles from the house so that makes things easier. I don't mind doing the same route for the umpteen times because it's better than risking the alternative of riding in high-traffic, noisy and hazardous areas.


Second - I started attaching a small rearview mirror that I rigged up with Velcro strap somewhere around the bend on the left side of my handlebar. It's relatively small and inconspicuous. And what it does is, it allows me to see the cars coming up behind me 1/2 mile away. As they approach and get closer where I know they can see me clearly and have enough time to react, I will stick my hand out quickly and then pull back way before they pass. 100% of the time...yes, this has not failed yet, not even once, I observed that the car would either move to the left and create a space before they pass or stay behind until it's safe to pass and there are no incoming traffic from the opposite lane. It's almost a natural reaction. They are responding to a human being who is requesting that they acknowledge his presence and please allow him some space and safety. It doesn't matter who they are...rednecks, big diesel truck, bus, truck pulling trailer, sports car, whatever you can think of, as soon as they see my hand out, they all started to move to the left. And after they pass, I would give them a wave to say "thank you" and I will make sure I do it when they can see me from their rear mirror. Because I really want to thank them in person if possible for being so understanding and humane. Ever since I instituted this safety feature to my riding, I have never encountered another instance of cars coming up too close to me. And I prefer this to the ones attached to helmets.

This is an advice that I only give out to people who are seriously interested in making their rides safer. It's field-tested and it really works. If you want to come and criticize this idea, I prefer that you just shut your mouth and don't say anything, just F.O. especially if you haven't try it yourself, you have no right to criticize. We are talking about personal safety and peace of mind so it's worth the extra trouble and suffering a bit on the "style" points or aerodynamics.

Oh, and that behavior that I see some of my riding buddies do...in "asserting your rights" by riding further out the road and thereby making it unsafe for cars to pass....that's the absolute worst thing you can do to anger and irritate drivers. They don't respond to that well. It's counter-productive. It doesn't work. It's dumb.

Lastly, this is a two-way street. Many times, I have either pull to the side or slow down and let others pass because I don't want to endanger them or put the driver in a difficult situation. This can't be just about us, we are sharing the road...so, share.

I'd rather assert my rights and have someone see me and be annoyed than not see me and clip me because they're not paying attention.

It isn't right for every situation, but it definitely works to promote safety.

[Tickdoc]

wow, this post has me feeling lucky to live where I do, and to be as lucky as I have.

The risk v benefit is still keeping me on the road for now, but I can always choose the trails if needed ( I hate the trails, even though ours are really nice)

Lights even in the daytime are standard for me now, unless on a group ride. Bought a mirror and attached to my helmet about two years ago. It is such a fred thing but I am addicted to it now. I instinctively pull far over when I know someone is passing, and I keep my driver interactions to a minumum, especially when out in bfe.

Do what you can but there isn't anything you can do, really. Just roll the dice and go for a ride.

[bigbill]

I'd rather assert my rights and have someone see me and be annoyed than not see me and clip me because they're not paying attention.

It isn't right for every situation, but it definitely works to promote safety.

I do this on my road ride. I'm on a nice shoulder for much of one section but approaching town the shoulder goes away and while it's still a divided 4 lane, the right edge is a curb. Approaching this section, I look back and if there are cars coming, I wave my arm up and down and I move left into the lane. Once in the lane, I ride in the center so drivers have to move over to the other lane to pass and not squeeze me over. As I approach an intersection, I move to the left wheel track to lessen the chance that I'll get hooked by a right turning car. Riding assertive IME is the safest way. Make them notice you.

[teleguy57]

This is an advice that I only give out to people who are seriously interested in making their rides safer. It's field-tested and it really works. If you want to come and criticize this idea, I prefer that you just shut your mouth and don't say anything, just F.O. especially if you haven't try it yourself, you have no right to criticize. We are talking about personal safety and peace of mind so it's worth the extra trouble and suffering a bit on the "style" points or aerodynamics.

Oh, and that behavior that I see some of my riding buddies do...in "asserting your rights" by riding further out the road and thereby making it unsafe for cars to pass....that's the absolute worst thing you can do to anger and irritate drivers. They don't respond to that well. It's counter-productive. It doesn't work. It's dumb.

I rarely comment on the back-and-forth stuff that goes on here, but since I just responded to a PM from you and commented that I appreciated your contributions here I feel compelled to make sure you didn't think I read this before saying that.

So -- who peed in your Cherios this morning? Telling others here to "f.o." doesn't sound like you, and I don't think it helpful to dialog.

I (and I bet almost everyone here) am serious about ride safety. Glad putting your hand out works for you. I'm not going to confuse drivers by something that could look like signalling intent to do something and then just "being there." Oh, wait. I was told not to comment...

Now, back to contributing positively to the content:

Last year I started riding with mirrors. Yup, plural. A while back I tried glasses/helmet mount. Couldn't make them work. Now using the Italian Road Mirror on both left and right bar ends. First, aesthetically it just looks better on both sides -- and we're all about the "look.":banana: But I find on double pacelines or in those situations where I'm on the left side of a lane (such as turning left) it's great to see behind me on both sides.

Rear flasher -- all the time now.

I am a fan of riding assertively -- not aggressively, but taking the lane as appropriate, signalling clearly to drivers with hand signals like pointing to a lane I'm taking as @bigbill has written.

And I'm a big fan of eye contact and showing appreciation by waving, smiling, etc.

We do share the road. Figure out how to do that is an ongoing responsibility I take seriously.

[Tony]

Thanks for the commissary. I don't want to stop either. Maybe just shift focus and add in some other two-wheel fun to reduce the statistical exposure rate.

I was where your at several years ago, too many close calls. I added mtbing, something I enjoyed in the nineties and enjoying very much now!https://connect.xfinity.com/appsuite/api/mail/20180519_151804_resized.jpg?action=attachment&folder=default0%2FSent&id=72461&attachment=3&user=2&context=12718504&decrypt=&sequence=1&delivery=view

[p nut]

I've never thought much about running a rear blinky in the daytime. But yesterday, I was riding for a few miles on suburban roads a few hundred yards behind a cyclist who was using one, and I was surprised at what a difference it made.

I noticed the same with front lights as well. The difference it makes for DAYTIME visibility for cyclist is pretty astounding. I started riding with both front and rear lights couple years ago. And not the cheap 50lum Knog lights, either. Lezyne 500-900lum front and PDW rear lights for all my bikes. Although Dinotte has intrigued me as well.

weisan - when you stick your hand out, I'm assuming it's your left hand? Doesn't that signal a left hand turn?

[GregL]

I am a fan of riding assertively -- not aggressively, but taking the lane as appropriate, signalling clearly to drivers with hand signals like pointing to a lane I'm taking as @bigbill has written.

And I'm a big fan of eye contact and showing appreciation by waving, smiling, etc.

We do share the road. Figure out how to do that is an ongoing responsibility I take seriously.
^^^ IMO, best advice thus far in this thread. I've found that effective cycling behavior (as quoted above) is the best way to ensure safety on the road. When motorists clearly know your intentions, they lose the "I didn't know what you were going to do" excuse.

I 100% agree with the positive message mentality (eye contact, waving, smiling, etc...) to reinforce good road user interaction. When another road user adheres to vehicle traffic law and (rightfully) gives me the right-of-way, I make sure to give them a smile, wave, and a "thank you" when windows are open. I often thank motorists for courteous driving if circumstances allow. I even exchanged compliments with a driver at a country three-way intersection. We both complimented each other for signaling and stopping. A little friendliness goes a long way!!

The collective "we" are all ambassadors for cycling. We all have to do our part to make cycling a safe, friendly experience. And for everyone who has bad road cycling experiences in their part of the world, please come for a visit to central New York. We have miles of lightly-traveled roads. Most roads have wide shoulders (thanks to our high tax burden). And in my experience, central New Yorker drivers tend to be friendly and polite! I'm happy to lead you on roads I love.

Greg

[Jaybee]

Assertive is usually predictable. Nothing wrong with that.

[steamer]

I have some safety concerns about road riding, and I too have been adjusting my behavior over time to help manage the risk.

There is no simple one-liner type of advice or course of action.

In reality, the best course of action is to pursue safety on multiple fronts.

Here is what I do.


Be conspicuous. (High viz clothes (at least partial), rear Dinotte light, etc.)
Be aware. (Use mirrors - Ihave the Italian RB mirror on both of my bikes; Consider use 'cat ears' so you can actually hear above wind noise, constantly visually scan the environment, don't day dream too hard, etc.)
Don't assume. (i.e. that car driver might not actually see you)
Choose good routes. Not all roads are equally safe. I look for the twistiest, narrowest roads I can. Roads that will put drivers in a ditch if they let themselves get too distracted or drive too fast. Such roads just simply see less traffic too, since they are the slow way to get somewhere.
Don't ride directly into the sun if at all possible.
Practice assertive riding techniques where appropriate (e.g. take the lane to prevent unsafe passes), but recognize the cases where it may actually increase risk.
Practice defensive riding techniques where appropriate. (part of the 'don't assume' philosophy)
Use safe equipment (non-fragile tires, good brakes, etc.)
Wear "safe clothing" (gloves, helmet, glasses/eye shields)


On the point above of knowing when NOT to take the lane.....I live in what a lot of folk would regard as a rednecky area, and there are certain places that either topography or the inbred personality defects of the population demand that you don't ride all that much further to the left than you absolutely need to in order to be safe against debris, going onto the shoulder, etc.

In these cases, riding a little bit extra to the left (as opposed to way over tot he left - i.e. taking the lane) is the safest procedure, IMO. But watch those mirrors and get ready to retreat when necessary.

I have had a handful of experiences whereby if I had been in the middle of the lane or if I had not heard or seen the car coming up from behind, I would have been killed. Only my own evasive maneuvers to the edge of the road saved me. Those instances were all whereby the car was speeding and the the road is twisty and/or hilly. The car whipped around a turn or over the crest of the hill absolutely flying, with their tires inches away from the white line, and the car driver would have only had about 1 or 2 seconds at most before reaching my location after first seeing me appear into view. And their ability to swerve away from me is limited. In these instances you gotta get the hell off the road or your are dead. Taking the lane would just force your evasive maneuver to take longer. And you might not have enough forewarning. This kind of event is not particularly common, but hit happens. Gotta use your ears and eyes on the back of your heat (ie mirror).

[Gummee]

^^^ IMO, best advice thus far in this thread. I've found that effective cycling behavior (as quoted above) is the best way to ensure safety on the road. When motorists clearly know your intentions, they lose the "I didn't know what you were going to do" excuse.

I 100% agree with the positive message mentality (eye contact, waving, smiling, etc...) to reinforce good road user interaction. When another road user adheres to vehicle traffic law and (rightfully) gives me the right-of-way, I make sure to give them a smile, wave, and a "thank you" when windows are open. I often thank motorists for courteous driving if circumstances allow. I even exchanged compliments with a driver at a country three-way intersection. We both complimented each other for signaling and stopping. A little friendliness goes a long way!!

The collective "we" are all ambassadors for cycling. We all have to do our part to make cycling a safe, friendly experience. And for everyone who has bad road cycling experiences in their part of the world, please come for a visit to central New York. We have miles of lightly-traveled roads. Most roads have wide shoulders (thanks to our high tax burden). And in my experience, central New Yorker drivers tend to be friendly and polite! I'm happy to lead you on roads I love.

Greg

This. I'm a fan of waving when people pass carefully, etc.

Like Weisan, I've found that as you hear a car coming up behind you to stick your arm out and wave (I don't do mirrors). Fingers splayed so your hand looks like a hand. I've found that it gets people to go round farther by A. making you wider without being a putz and B. you're a person because you have a hand/fingers. You aren't just a thing in their way.

I'm typically an assertive rider: moving leftwards in unsafe spots, then obviously moving back right when the unsafe situation is over. ...then waving as people pass to say thank you.

Seems to help here in the land of the type A/ambitious types called the DC Area

M

[Climb01742]

That's the thing here. The drivers here are overwhelmingly friendly, it's the NE Texas default response, if you don't understand something just be courteous. But in the last 6 years since I arrived, the local group has gotten bigger, riding longer distances, and exhibited worse behavior. I just won't ride with them anymore. Running lights, diving corners into oncoming traffic hoping there's not a car, and having no idea how to ride in a paceline. We're almost two hours from anywhere with a decent sized cycling population that would have group rides, so the locals here have no idea what to do. But the stuff they do would get them kicked out of a group. My concern is the goodwill of the local drivers will get tested beyond what they'll tolerate and we'll hear about some guy running over a group.

+1

There’s no question that there are drivers endangering cyclist every day. I ride narrow back roads. I know. But this really is a two way street, in every sense. Some portion of riders turn up the aggravation felt by drivers. Before we abandoned the roads, what if cyclists voluntarily abandoned group rides? Is their downside for the many worth it? It’s absolutely fair to ask drivers to be better. Can we be better too?

[oldpotatoe]

+1

There’s no question that there are drivers endangering cyclist every day. I ride narrow back roads. I know. But this really is a two way street, in every sense. Some portion of riders turn up the aggravation felt by drivers. Before we abandoned the roads, what if cyclists voluntarily abandoned group rides? Is their downside for the many worth it? It’s absolutely fair to ask drivers to be better. Can we be better too?

There is no doubt 'we' are our own worse enemy, sometimes...:eek:

[dancinkozmo]

Here is what I do.


Be conspicuous. (High viz clothes (at least partial), rear Dinotte light, etc.)
Be aware. (Use mirrors - Ihave the Italian RB mirror on both of my bikes; Consider use 'cat ears' so you can actually hear above wind noise, constantly visually scan the environment, don't day dream too hard, etc.)
Don't assume. (i.e. that car driver might not actually see you)
Choose good routes. Not all roads are equally safe. I look for the twistiest, narrowest roads I can. Roads that will put drivers in a ditch if they let themselves get too distracted or drive too fast. Such roads just simply see less traffic too, since they are the slow way to get somewhere.
Don't ride directly into the sun if at all possible.
Practice assertive riding techniques where appropriate (e.g. take the lane to prevent unsafe passes), but recognize the cases where it may actually increase risk.
Practice defensive riding techniques where appropriate. (part of the 'don't assume' philosophy)
Use safe equipment (non-fragile tires, good brakes, etc.)
Wear "safe clothing" (gloves, helmet, glasses/eye shields)



jeezzus....at what point does one say "fcuk this, im leasing a hyundai"
???

[Mikej]

I know how you feel - I think it may be there are just lots more people out riding who are learning, this is causing trouble because the beginner may not have been taught how to properly ride roads. There are tons of jerks, too. Also, unhappy people get mad when they see happy people enjoying something- and ignoring them is the only way to go.

[brockd15]

Just a quick word of caution. There's a lot of assumptions being made in this thread about other's intentions. Those assumptions may or may not be correct, but, it's generally best not to build a persona for someone else in your own mind based upon a single moment in time and our own bias.

That's the thing here. The drivers here are overwhelmingly friendly, it's the NE Texas default response, if you don't understand something just be courteous. But in the last 6 years since I arrived, the local group has gotten bigger, riding longer distances, and exhibited worse behavior. I just won't ride with them anymore. Running lights, diving corners into oncoming traffic hoping there's not a car, and having no idea how to ride in a paceline. We're almost two hours from anywhere with a decent sized cycling population that would have group rides, so the locals here have no idea what to do. But the stuff they do would get them kicked out of a group. My concern is the goodwill of the local drivers will get tested beyond what they'll tolerate and we'll hear about some guy running over a group.

Good input here. ^^^

Like some people have said already, this is just people, and doesn't have anything to do with what they drive, their political leanings, who their favorite sports team is, or if they prefer fish or chicken. There are rude and aggressive drivers, co-workers, cyclists, ping pongers, skateboarders, librarians, and paceliners.

I've had several close calls myself. Never by a big so-called "redneck" truck. The two times I've actually needed some assistance on the roadside, it was by guys in pickups that stopped to see if I needed anything.

As cyclists we are minorities, and haters of minorities are in full bloom these days, hate seems to be more "OK", haters feel more emboldened and less fearful of consequences. I won't offer up the obvious reason why this is, otherwise the thread will get locked down quick. Stay safe out there, spread some love and good karma, it'll get back eventually. I do find myself now waving at just about every car that gives me space and passes with care.

I honestly don't see this at all in real life. I actually think the idea of it being true is kinda silly. It just doesn't make any sense.

It does seem like people on TV and the internet are generally angrier and more rude now, but in the real world that doesn't normally seem to be the case, at least not any more than in the past. The idea that "hate" is emboldened these days does have some merit to it, but kind of opposite of "the obvious reason why" that you mention. Its weird, because the hate actually seems to come more from the people who warn about it, not as much from the people they accuse of doing it (not talking about you, specifically, btw).

Exactly. When someone does something really obnoxious, and I'm tempted to flip 'em the bird... it helps me to remember that anyone with those tendencies likely has a gun in the glovebox... or on their person.

This is especially true with the recently relaxed gun laws here in the Dairyland.

Count to ten. Smile and wave. :rolleyes:

"Anyone with those tendencies likely has a gun"...haha. Not sure if that's intentionally funny or not, but it is funny.
Well, I'm not sure I could disagree with it more than I do. Maybe a little bit, I guess. I think it probably says more about your own prejudices than anything about those people, though. But hey, if its that thought that leads to a smile and wave rather than flippin' people off, then maybe it's a good thing, anyway.

Regardless, I feel for anyone getting buzzed or hooked or otherwise having a close call, it's scary stuff. I got a Dinotte Quad Red a few years ago and ride with it and a headlight both day or night. I haven't had the comments from drivers but have had a couple bike riders say something about it.

[campy man]

EDIT: ... I am committing to being more selective about when and where I ride in order to reduce the statistical likelihood of ending up dead or disabled.

+1 I only ride certain roads/streets and certain times. My hat is off to all the brave Paceline commuters/riders out there on a regular basis dealing with traffic.

On my routes, the biggest problem is clowns speeding up to pass and making a right turn in front of me. :bike:

[thwart]

I've had several close calls myself. Never by a big so-called "redneck" truck.

You need to get out more. Or maybe you've just been lucky.

Rollin' coal is a thing.

The idea that "hate" is emboldened these days does have some merit to it, but kind of opposite of "the obvious reason why" that you mention. Its weird, because the hate actually seems to come more from the people who warn about it, not as much from the people they accuse of doing it (not talking about you, specifically, btw).

Gee, do they make MAGA bike caps? ;)

"Anyone with those tendencies likely has a gun"...haha. Not sure if that's intentionally funny or not, but it is funny.

I dunno... the folks I ride with don't think it's funny. At all.

But hey, if its that thought that leads to a smile and wave rather than flippin' people off, then maybe it's a good thing, anyway.

Well, we certainly agree on that.

[brockd15]

You need to get out more. Or maybe you've just been lucky.

Rollin' coal is a thing.

No, I know it's a thing, I've seen the videos and it's ridiculous! I have had little Toyota commuter cars fly by way too close. Almost got doored by a Miata. Soccer mom SUVs with a nice right hook. School buses that I'd swear were trying to kill me and make it look like an accident. Never one of the big pickups.


Gee, do they make MAGA bike caps? ;)

Ha. Well, that's beside the point, but I'll call it like I see it. If you want to talk about feeling emboldened to be hateful...do they make De Niro bike caps? How about Kathy Griffin? Or tons of others. The restaurant owner who booted people only because she didn't agree with them politically probably had on one of those hats, right?
These things are over the top, and I'd say they feel emboldened and justified to behave the way they do. But again, these are not things I see by real people in every day life 99% of the time.


I dunno... the folks I ride with don't think it's funny. At all.

I'm sure they don't, but I bet it's because you all tend to hold the same ideas, not because of any truth to the idea. The funny part is the thought that those people out there that are rude and selfish and careless are probably the gun owners. Those polite ones that give a car lane passing width, wave with a smile, and hand a fresh bottle of water out the window as they pass, like they're your own team car, they wouldn't ever do such a thing!
You need to get out more. Or maybe you've just been unlucky. ;)

Now, anyone that would use a gun or any weapon for something like harassing, scaring, intimidating (or worse) cyclists, or anyone else...that's not funny. That should go without saying, but I said it anyway.


Well, we certainly agree on that.

Ok, good.
Kidding aside, that's a good approach. You never know who you're dealing with.

[54ny77]

Now that is funny. :banana:

jeezzus....at what point does one say "fcuk this, im leasing a hyundai"
???

[weisan]

http://alicehui.com/bike/misc/IMG_8455.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

http://alicehui.com/bike/misc/IMG_8455.jpg

If you want to come and criticize this idea, I prefer that you just shut your mouth and don't say anything, just F.O. especially if you haven't try it yourself, you have no right to criticize.

you forgot that part...:eek:

[Dave Ferris]

Riding on the road isn't worth it to me. It's worse now then ever, especially with the texting thing. Glad I'm a runner. Even that can be hazardous.

And yes, even around here , which is mellow by LA standards, I still feel a certain angst out there on the road that I never did years ago.

My friend, who also runs, rides his road bike on alternate days around Burbank and Griffith Park and even is brave enough to venture into the Valley. Seems like everyday he's posting something on FB about a close encounter.

I chose wisely 5 years ago when I was on the fence between having a road bike or MTB made by Steve Potts. It might be the same old same doing the Verdugo Mountains over here in Glendale but I'll take it over the streets.

[Dave Ferris]

Clean39, don't let your story become that of the highly respected and possibly envied Paceline member who died from a household accident. That gentleman who had gone through countless high end bikes, after escaping a Justice Department prosecution for defrauding the federal government for hundreds of millions, decided that other risks, such as road riding were not worth it. If I recall correctly, he gave up road for mtb, and then at the young age of late 50s, he succumbed to an indoor fall. .

Jack Brunk. I was so shocked to hear that news. After all the thousands of miles he rode both on the road and trails. Jack spent so much time with me on the phone. The epitome of nice guy.

[eBAUMANN]

sorry to hear this man, and i feel your pain, but the sad reality is that there is NOTHING you can do about dumb-ass drivers, no amount of awareness or hi-viz is going to change the transformation most humans undergo as soon as they sit behind the wheel.

ive also been riding less and less on the road these days. once you do a little traveling and realize how much better it is elsewhere (outside of the populated areas of america) it becomes hard to find motivation to put up with all the bullsh*t youll inevitably run into, especially riding around any "greater _____ area" in this country of ours.

the good news is there are miles of dirt out there, and youll probably find em far more engaging and rewarding than anything youve ever done on asphalt ;)

[bobvelo]

I am sorry for, everyones stress in dealing with road riding. We are blessed to live, near Gettysburg, and it is great riding from the end of my long lane. The Baltimore, bike club rides a lot in the area, as I was talking to a 70 plus year gentleman on his bike, and he said this was Gods country. My personal take, back on the topic, is I have a job, and work the 3-11 PM shift, as my choice for one main reason, riding, so 9 AM till noon any day is great, no traffic. I went on my same roads 4-7 pm AND it was not a good experience. RUDE, land was alive and well. Best, to you and yours; bobvelo;

[Clean39T]

sorry to hear this man, and i feel your pain, but the sad reality is that there is NOTHING you can do about dumb-ass drivers, no amount of awareness or hi-viz is going to change the transformation most humans undergo as soon as they sit behind the wheel.

ive also been riding less and less on the road these days. once you do a little traveling and realize how much better it is elsewhere (outside of the populated areas of america) it becomes hard to find motivation to put up with all the bullsh*t youll inevitably run into, especially riding around any "greater _____ area" in this country of ours.

the good news is there are miles of dirt out there, and youll probably find em far more engaging and rewarding than anything youve ever done on asphalt ;)

I am sorry for, everyones stress in dealing with road riding. We are blessed to live, near Gettysburg, and it is great riding from the end of my long lane. The Baltimore, bike club rides a lot in the area, as I was talking to a 70 plus year gentleman on his bike, and he said this was Gods country. My personal take, back on the topic, is I have a job, and work the 3-11 PM shift, as my choice for one main reason, riding, so 9 AM till noon any day is great, no traffic. I went on my same roads 4-7 pm AND it was not a good experience. RUDE, land was alive and well. Best, to you and yours; bobvelo;

My new job is affording me more flexibility also. I went out at 10a-ish yesterday and had a wonderful ride, albeit short, and closer to home.

My default had been riding around 4-8p weekdays, and late-morning/early-afternoon on Saturdays. Those might be about the worst times to be on the road in areas where people are hell-bent on getting to/from work, Home Depot, Bed Bath and Beyond, and soccer practice for the kiddos.

The bear can get you anytime, anywhere - I guess we are all just trying to limit the risk, without getting overly actuarial about it (Ruben in Along_Came_Polly comes to mind..).

I'll be doing my first "gravel" event this weekend. Will see what that brings...

[shinomaster]

EDIT: I really appreciate all the perspectives shared here. I'm not ready to give up on road riding. But I am committing to being more selective about when and where I ride in order to reduce the statistical likelihood of ending up dead or disabled. And I apologize for the stereotyping below - most people in most places are good and gracious - and likewise, driving like a complete jackhole is not the sole domain of any one tribe, type of vehicle, or whatever...

Be well friends.

---------

This is my rant. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

I've generally gone numb to the prickish behavior of motorists I encounter on most of my rides. I've learned to ride very defensively, to expect right and left hooks, etc. I've even shrugged off d-bags with hyper inferiority-complexes who think their manhood is somehow confirmed by rolling diesel in my face.

But four times today I almost got intentionally hit or run off the road, and it's just gotten under my skin more than ever before. So much so that I actually told my wife about it...a dicey move considering she already doesn't like me riding on the road...and am pretty much feeling like I want to just focus on gravel, cross, and mtb - with an occasional organized road event.

And when I say intentionally hit or run off the road, I mean situations where there was no reason at all for a $100K BMW to give me 6-inches of clearance at 50-60mph, with me going 35mph in a 40mph zone, or someone in an expensive big-a$$ truck pulling up behind me and then flooring their diesel while swerving toward me just for fun, or someone swerving into oncoming traffic and then back over and into the bike lane right in front of me rather than waiting 20 seconds until it was safe to pass. Oh, and the topper, I'm going 35-40mph down a hill in a 35mph zone - I get a big gust of wind off a truck going in the opposite direction up the hill, probably going 60mph, and that wind gives me a speed wobble, so I slow down a bit and the car behind me lays on their horn like I've spoiled their day by slowing down to 30mph for 100ft.

I just don't get the animosity and general loathsome behavior of people in cars. Maybe I'm just unlucky. Maybe I'm overly sensitive today for some reason. But goddamit, I don't want to be a statistic. And as much as I love riding road bikes, I'm seriously having a hard time justifying it at this point. There are other ways to enjoy two-wheel fun. I guess its time to go find them.

/rant-off



I agree, Portland drivers suck.

[drewski]

EDIT: I really appreciate all the perspectives shared here. I'm not ready to give up on road riding. But I am committing to being more selective about when and where I ride in order to reduce the statistical likelihood of ending up dead or disabled. And I apologize for the stereotyping below - most people in most places are good and gracious - and likewise, driving like a complete jackhole is not the sole domain of any one tribe, type of vehicle, or whatever...

Be well friends.

---------

This is my rant. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

I've generally gone numb to the prickish behavior of motorists I encounter on most of my rides. I've learned to ride very defensively, to expect right and left hooks, etc. I've even shrugged off d-bags with hyper inferiority-complexes who think their manhood is somehow confirmed by rolling diesel in my face.

But four times today I almost got intentionally hit or run off the road, and it's just gotten under my skin more than ever before. So much so that I actually told my wife about it...a dicey move considering she already doesn't like me riding on the road...and am pretty much feeling like I want to just focus on gravel, cross, and mtb - with an occasional organized road event.

And when I say intentionally hit or run off the road, I mean situations where there was no reason at all for a $100K BMW to give me 6-inches of clearance at 50-60mph, with me going 35mph in a 40mph zone, or someone in an expensive big-a$$ truck pulling up behind me and then flooring their diesel while swerving toward me just for fun, or someone swerving into oncoming traffic and then back over and into the bike lane right in front of me rather than waiting 20 seconds until it was safe to pass. Oh, and the topper, I'm going 35-40mph down a hill in a 35mph zone - I get a big gust of wind off a truck going in the opposite direction up the hill, probably going 60mph, and that wind gives me a speed wobble, so I slow down a bit and the car behind me lays on their horn like I've spoiled their day by slowing down to 30mph for 100ft.

I just don't get the animosity and general loathsome behavior of people in cars. Maybe I'm just unlucky. Maybe I'm overly sensitive today for some reason. But goddamit, I don't want to be a statistic. And as much as I love riding road bikes, I'm seriously having a hard time justifying it at this point. There are other ways to enjoy two-wheel fun. I guess its time to go find them.

/rant-off


I hear you. Its like we live in the Deathrace 2000, bicycle rider edition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Race_2000


At times, members of our society are in big douchy self-absorbed bubble.
Lack of empathy towards cyclists is rampant even though we have a greater % of bike ride share that we have had since the oil crisis.

[sitzmark]

I hear you. Its like we live in the Deathrace 2000, bicycle rider edition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Race_2000


At times, members of our society are in big douchy self-absorbed bubble.
Lack of empathy towards cyclists is rampant even though we have a greater % of bike ride share that we have had since the oil crisis.

I hear everyone, recently I watched the right rear wheel of a vehicle come off the ground as the driver raced by me and right hooked me into the entrance of a condo complex. They had to back off the turn to avoid rolling the vehicle (RAV4ish looking) and ended up in a grassy area adjacent to the entry road. Suburban road with 40mph limit. I was traveling a little over 30mph (1-2% negative grade).

...but this isn't just a lack of empathy toward cyclists. Traveling on roadways is a risk for anyone choosing to use them. Far more people die in motor vehicles every day than cyclists struck by them. Yes, there are true bike haters but I believe they are a small percentage of the public - most people are just annoyed by anything getting in their way or are inattentive.

Not changing my rides.

[marciero]

...but this isn't just a lack of empathy toward cyclists. Traveling on roadways is a risk for anyone choosing to use them. Far more people die in motor vehicles every day than cyclists struck by them. Yes, there are true bike haters but I believe they are a small percentage of the public - most people are just annoyed by anything getting in their way or are inattentive.



This is true but also true is that it is acceptable to be a bike hater. Recall that Clear Channel episode a few years ago, and the rather vocal and vicious people in places like NYC as documented by people like Bike Snob NYC.

The gravel thing has been great. It's not like I seek out gravel for its own sake, it's just that some of the most beautiful roads happen to be gravel. The lack of cars is an added benefit. I love paved roads too. We are fortunate in New England. Did you know that Vermont is the second least populated state?? This at least according to the last census. NH, ME also very cool, Western MA... Even the busier roads like the Kanc and touristy places that have lots of cars are pretty tame. Less attitude among people on vacation with their families I guess.

Here is how I plan my summer.

[sitzmark]

This is true but also true is that it is acceptable to be a bike hater. Recall that Clear Channel episode a few years ago, and the rather vocal and vicious people in places like NYC as documented by people like Bike Snob NYC.
...
Here is how I plan my summer.

Cool plans!

I understand the "hater concept" but those who do it and those who condone practicing it are a small percentage. The majority of people respect bicyclists who share the roads even if they are frustrated by "bad behaving" cyclists at times.

Spent a good chunk of my teenage years in GA. Moved there from CO so it was a bit of a culture shock. Rode bikes at the time but was not a "cyclist". Had friends across the clicks in high school ... jocks, freaks, etc. There was a thing in high school (and even with friends who moved on to semi-pro level) to have no respect for "weak". Comments about bikers were that they were skinny little f..'s. It isn't the fact that they were cyclists - just that they were not usually endowed with muscle and perceived as sissies. All sissies were a target of "hate"/ridicule.

Greg LeMond's TDF success at the time did make some headway (LA too later) toward acceptance, as respect for "patriotism" and toughness ran deep. I departed the South after college and have been an infrequent visitor (in a completely different environment - business) so can't speak to how the culture may/may not be different today.

[Gummee]

So there were 7 of us including me on the Haymarket ride last nite. We're not hauling the mail, but we aren't going slowly either. Single paceline...

Guy in a black truck towing a trailer passes us safely along with everyone else on the road

No one thinks twice about it till we pass him a bit up the road. The guy is OUT OF HIS TRUCK yelling something about 'single fill ssholes!'

Ummm yeah. [/I]WHO[/I] is the sshole here?!

I was 3rd in line and I know *I* was riding single file. Maybe there were guys behind me that were left of the guy in front of him, but we weren't bunched up by any stretch.

I'm really curious what makes the guy think that yelling at complete strangers is going to make us change our riding behavior when we were already riding single file. Especially when 2 wide is legal as long as you're not impeding the reasonable movement of traffic

M

[Jaybee]

So there were 7 of us including me on the Haymarket ride last nite. We're not hauling the mail, but we aren't going slowly either. Single paceline...

Guy in a black truck towing a trailer passes us safely along with everyone else on the road

No one thinks twice about it till we pass him a bit up the road. The guy is OUT OF HIS TRUCK yelling something about 'single fill ssholes!'

Ummm yeah. [/I]WHO[/I] is the sshole here?!

I was 3rd in line and I know *I* was riding single file. Maybe there were guys behind me that were left of the guy in front of him, but we weren't bunched up by any stretch.

I'm really curious what makes the guy think that yelling at complete strangers is going to make us change our riding behavior when we were already riding single file. Especially when 2 wide is legal as long as you're not impeding the reasonable movement of traffic

M


Yelling at anyone rarely accomplishes what the yeller hopes it will.

[HenryA]

When something unpredictable happens, many people become anxious or afraid. Its natural. Sometimes the fear is expressed in anger.

Imagine that there was no consensus on which side of the road to drive on. Every time another vehicle approached you would wonder (and be justifiably fearful). Which side will they take? Which side do I take?

I think a lot of car drivers don’t quite know what to make of a bicyclist and the new question that the cyclist presents to them.

This morning I practiced a modified version of weisan’s method - I waved cars around me while they were well back and then again after they passed. It seemed to work and got some waves in return. I think it made me more predictable to the car drivers and certainly presented me more as a friendly human. I think it will help. I’m gonna try it for a while and see.

[Gummee]

When something unpredictable happens, many people become anxious or afraid. Its natural. Sometimes the fear is expressed in anger.

Imagine that there was no consensus on which side of the road to drive on. Every time another vehicle approached you would wonder (and be justifiably fearful). Which side will they take? Which side do I take?

I think a lot of car drivers don’t quite know what to make of a bicyclist and the new question that the cyclist presents to them.

This morning I practiced a modified version of weisan’s method - I waved cars around me while they were well back and then again after they passed. It seemed to work and got some waves in return. I think it made me more predictable to the car drivers and certainly presented me more as a friendly human. I think it will help. I’m gonna try it for a while and see.
Every once in a while I hose up waving cars around. Makes for an interesting few seconds...

But most of the time, I get it right and people seem to appreciate the signals.

Warming up for the Haymarket ride above, on Wed there were a few spots where I could hear cars coming up behind me and could see cars over the hill in front of me that the cars behind me couldn't see yet. The 'stop' motion seemed to work in keeping people from passing unsafely without ticking them off. Waving them around when I could see it was clear helped too.


YMMV

M

[Ken Robb]

I've said it before but I guess it bears repeating: when we ride racing bikes, wearing racing-like kit we are perceived by drivers as playing in traffic. It's as though we were wearing Manchester United uniforms (kit if you must but they call it "strip") and dribbling a soccer ball down the street.

I get more respect from drivers when I look very "fred" and have luggage on my bike. I think it's because drivers think I'm a poor guy who can't afford a car trying to get to work.

[Clean39T]

I've said it before but I guess it bears repeating: when we ride racing bikes, wearing racing-like kit we are perceived by drivers as playing in traffic. It's as though we were wearing Manchester United uniforms (kit if you must but they call it "strip") and dribbling a soccer ball down the street.

I get more respect from drivers when I look very "fred" and have luggage on my bike. I think it's because drivers think I'm a poor guy who can't afford a car trying to get to work.I think you're on to something there Ken..

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[SpeedyChix]

In addition to the front and rear Dinotte lights I use a glass-mounted mirror. I'll glance back a couple times to let an alert driver know that I see them. If they aren't moving over my arm goes out 8 o'clock and my index finger extended in an effort to "point out" their need to move over. This has been effective.

Waves and thumbs up to all safe passers.

This past week I did chase a guy down. Michigan now has a defined 3' foot passing law. He was pulling a large enclosed trailer and didn't budge an inch. Edge of the trail abutted the white fog line and way too close to my bars. I politely informed him about the new law, "couldn't do it, oncoming traffic"; "pass a cyclist like a vehicle, you wait until it's clear" "you've got the entire "bike lane""That's the shoulder of the road, not a bike lane" To which he put on his head phones and rolled off on his large commercial mower.