Bird Scooters in your city

[cmg]

Has your city been invaded by the electric "Bird" scooters? they're all over SA and Austin. looks like fun. at .15 a minute ($10 an hour) seems like a better solution than the rent a bike that's also here.

[stev0]

invaded is the right word. they might be great in theory, but certainly not in execution. I'm sure others will chime in here, as there's been plenty of discussion about bird scooters already, but they've become a total nuisance and safety hazard. in LA/Santa Monica there are literally thousands of them. (San Francisco and Santa Monica have already passed regulations restricting Birds and LA is working on it as well)

so many issues. people ditch these things on the road, across bike paths and trails, (in the creeks). a lot of users don't know how to ride them, so people quite frequently fall off and get injured (or can't properly control them and run into pedestrians, like i saw yesterday). many bird riders ignore the traffic laws (dont stop for lights, ride on sidewalks, ride against traffic in the bike lane, cut across streets). and apparently there's quite a vicious culture (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/charging-electric-scooters-is-a-cutthroat-business/560747/) among the independent contractors that gather and charge these things as well. They're popular with the bar crowd in the main street type areas, which just fuels the fire by adding alcohol to the mix.

Flexible and available transportation at a lower price point than rideshare/taxi, and more useful than public transit in a lot of cases. I love the idea, but it looks like its implementation has been net negative. Has made my day to day as a cyclist/pedestrian/driver much more hazardous. started out thinking they were a good thing, but the needle has been moving steadily away from that direction. pretty firmly in the "better off without em" camp now.

[FlashUNC]

I made sure to knock any I saw into the street here in SF when they showed up ealrier this year. Idiotic garbage.

[Ken Robb]

In some areas they are VERY popular with drunks who think they don't have to worry about crashing or getting a DUI while riding a scooter.

[notsew]

In some areas they are VERY popular with drunks who think they don't have to worry about crashing or getting a DUI while riding a scooter.

Well at the very least they probably won't do as much damage

Also, I was talking to someone who knew a little bit about these and other newer bike shares and apparently many of them are hoping to make money be targeted advertising. I couldn't get from him how exactly that would work, but its interesting - though maybe just hearsay. So, like everything else in life these days, you are the product.

[arimajol]

They just showed up in Milwaukee a few weeks ago. The city has made it illegal to ride them and have a court case against the company pending. Meanwhile, they are laying around on sidewalks.

[jumphigher]

I read about these in another recent Paceline thread. They definitely sound like a disaster. I'm wondering if the people making them will try to get them ensconced into every US city. And will they be showing up here in Richmond, shortly?

[cmg]

they haven't become a nuance in SA yet. I would think that the city would back charge the company for having to regulate their drop off, having to gather them up in controlled areas. When they first showed the company didn't even notify the city they just dropped off a hundred or so downtown then the city made them pick them up and negotiated conditions for there use. I suspect given time they will disrupt the low ridership of the local city bus service.

[ptourkin]

Tons of them here in San Diego. Great in my neighborhood. Some people act stupid on them. More people are stupid in cars. Some people complain that they are parked all over the place. Cars are parked all over the place too and take up a lot more space. New things are scary. It will work itself out.

I have noticed that more scooters have rolled out and the dockless bikes are decreasing in the same proportion. The scooters are more popular. They are reducing vehicle trips and while they may have some problems, many of them are overstated and getting cars off the road is good.

[cachagua]

Anybody see the article about the "bird hunters" who round them up and recharge them overnight? Bird pays you by the piece to go find them, bring them back home, put them on a charger, and then take them out to a drop-off point in the morning.

(The perfect gig! Do this 9 to midnight, then when you've dropped them off, get your side hustle on and Uber all day!)

Predictably, individuals are trying to collect them early, to establish turf and exclude other hunters, acting dangerously in traffic to get as many as possible, and generally pirate the system.

[benadrian]

they might be great in theory, but certainly not in execution.

so many issues. people ditch these things on the road, across bike paths and trails, (in the creeks). a lot of users don't know how to ride them, so people quite frequently fall off and get injured (or can't properly control them and run into pedestrians, like i saw yesterday). many bird riders ignore the traffic laws (dont stop for lights, ride on sidewalks, ride against traffic in the bike lane, cut across streets).

Flexible and available transportation at a lower price point than rideshare/taxi, and more useful than public transit in a lot of cases. I love the idea, but it looks like its implementation has been net negative.

So, a great idea except for the humans involved? That's kind of my thought. I generally like anything that gets people out of cars an onto slower, smaller vehicles. However, if I lived in a Bird ground zero area, I'd probably get pretty annoyed when they ended up broken and in front of my house.

I was in Florence, IT a little more than a month ago, and the wife an I use the Mobike dock-less bike share all the time. It was a bit annoying at times, but for the most part it was pretty great. They have some encouraged parking area and some no parking areas. You can leave them anywhere, but if you leave the bikes in a parking area, you get a discount, and if you leave it in a no parking area, you get a small fine. I've never used Bird. Do they have any incentives for good behavior or discouragement for bad behavior?

[SoCalSteve]

invaded is the right word. they might be great in theory, but certainly not in execution. I'm sure others will chime in here, as there's been plenty of discussion about bird scooters already, but they've become a total nuisance and safety hazard. in LA/Santa Monica there are literally thousands of them. (San Francisco and Santa Monica have already passed regulations restricting Birds and LA is working on it as well)

so many issues. people ditch these things on the road, across bike paths and trails, (in the creeks). a lot of users don't know how to ride them, so people quite frequently fall off and get injured (or can't properly control them and run into pedestrians, like i saw yesterday). many bird riders ignore the traffic laws (dont stop for lights, ride on sidewalks, ride against traffic in the bike lane, cut across streets). and apparently there's quite a vicious culture (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/charging-electric-scooters-is-a-cutthroat-business/560747/) among the independent contractors that gather and charge these things as well. They're popular with the bar crowd in the main street type areas, which just fuels the fire by adding alcohol to the mix.

Flexible and available transportation at a lower price point than rideshare/taxi, and more useful than public transit in a lot of cases. I love the idea, but it looks like its implementation has been net negative. Has made my day to day as a cyclist/pedestrian/driver much more hazardous. started out thinking they were a good thing, but the needle has been moving steadily away from that direction. pretty firmly in the "better off without em" camp now.

Very well said!

Since I live in a very touristy area, this summer is shaping up to be really crazy with them.

Oh, the worst is when you see a father and his kid sharing one with no helmets. How fricken stupid is that????

[VonTrapp]

Anybody see the article about the "bird hunters" who round them up and recharge them overnight? Bird pays you by the piece to go find them, bring them back home, put them on a charger, and then take them out to a drop-off point in the morning.

(The perfect gig! Do this 9 to midnight, then when you've dropped them off, get your side hustle on and Uber all day!)

Predictably, individuals are trying to collect them early, to establish turf and exclude other hunters, acting dangerously in traffic to get as many as possible, and generally pirate the system.

Yup. Pickup truck. Running gas generator in the bed of the truck. Guy staring at phone and zipping and zooming and randomly parking all over my neighborhood.

But, in the last month since school’s been out, I’ve see a lot of teens on them (hey... it’s an activity outside, away from a screen), and a mix of commuters/curious adults seeing if its a fit for them.

But I’ve also seen people pick them up and throw them in our Lake Merrit like they are competing for a gold medal in distance and splash.

I don’t know 🤷🏻*♂️.

[SoCalSteve]

Yup. Pickup truck. Running gas generator in the bed of the truck. Guy staring at phone and zipping and zooming and randomly parking all over my neighborhood.

But, in the last month since school’s been out, I’ve see a lot of teens on them (hey... it’s an activity outside, away from a screen), and a mix of commuters/curious adults seeing if its a fit for them.

But I’ve also seen people pick them up and throw them in our Lake Merrit like they are competing for a gold medal in distance and splash.

I don’t know ������������*♂️.

Turns out you must be 18 or older to ride them.

https://www.bird.co/agreement

[C40_guy]

I tried using these in Santa Monica one evening. By evening, many, perhaps most are dead. Very frustrating...I started four rides and had to ditch each one as it died. Never got more than a couple of hundred yards on them.

Some of it was due to my learning curve. You can figure out whether a particular one is charged...but it's not intuitive to the new comer (and I'm pretty tech savvy).

I got $8 in promotion codes from Lime...but expect that they will expire before I can (or want to) use them...

[jtakeda]

Bird scooters, lime scooters... yall are in for a treat.

I think Santa Monica and SF got it the worst but coming to a city near you....
Trucks swerving all over the place.
people parking wherever they want sometimes in the middle of the street.
Welcome to Bird country

ps. 1st photo I stole from a local street photographer I know.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1801/28504551977_45610bbf13_c.jpg
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1804/42657101534_9c92e351df_c.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/843/42657101354_2bb219c540_c.jpg

[charliedid]

Well at the very least they probably won't do as much damage

Also, I was talking to someone who knew a little bit about these and other newer bike shares and apparently many of them are hoping to make money be targeted advertising. I couldn't get from him how exactly that would work, but its interesting - though maybe just hearsay. So, like everything else in life these days, you are the product.

Don't be so sure, a swerving drunk on a scooter in traffic can cause all sorts of havoc including death.

[charliedid]

In similar news, Ofo dockless bike share pulled out of Chicago after the city demanded a requirement for the bikes to be locked to something.

I'm not entirely sure yet how I feel about dockless share programs but requiring them to be locked to something flies in the face of the concept and could certainly be used to dissuade the them.

[dbh]

In similar news, Ofo dockless bike share pulled out of Chicago after the city demanded a requirement for the bikes to be locked to something.

I'm not entirely sure yet how I feel about dockless share programs but requiring them to be locked to something flies in the face of the concept and could certainly be used to dissuade the them.

Here in the Boston area, the dockless bikeshare system has become a real problem. The city and a few central towns have a docked system with exclusive rights. A number of suburban towns have deals with dockless systems. The problem is that folks ride the dockless bikes into Boston and just leave them. They clutter sidewalks etc. Folks have started tossing the dockless bikes into dumpsters and the harbor.

[cachagua]

Folks have started tossing the dockless bikes into dumpsters and the harbor.

Oh, Boston, balm to my soul!

No taxation without representation, and get that thing the f--k off my YAAAHD!

I love these people.

[cderalow]

We’ve got docked, dock less and now scooters in dc.

Haven’t done the scooters or dockless bikeshare yet. Use the docked bikeshare for short trips around the city.

Dockless is starting to be a nuisance around town with bikes being left randomly. Not sure if people have started tossing them in the river yet. They get dumped where ever including on some of the MUPs.

Docked is a bit of a nuisance as my office is in a heavy use area. So the nearest corral is either full or empty.

Scooters seem pretty heavily used and like dockless just random.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[C40_guy]

Turns out you must be 18 or older to ride them.

https://www.bird.co/agreement

And you're supposed to wear a helmet. Lime offers 2 locations in California where you can pick up a loaner helmet. Pretty thorough coverage, huh...

[cmg]

on an off topic. the adoption of electric powered transportation even as small as these scooters quickens the development of more robust battery systems and the impending death of the internal combustion engine or the current poorly managed public transit system. That sounds like a good thing till I discover I can't afford an electric car either...or the per trip cost of leasing even on the temporary basis of the electric scooters. $10 an hour, $100 a day no way. the future's so dark.............

[C40_guy]

...the impending death of the internal combustion engine

Not in my lifetime...

And while my house generates 40% more electricity than we consume on an annual basis, there isn't a single EV on the market that interests me (I'm a car guy...)

[Hellgate]

Has your city been invaded by the electric "Bird" scooters? they're all over SA and Austin. looks like fun. at .15 a minute ($10 an hour) seems like a better solution than the rent a bike that's also here.Bird, as in grackle? Those and the damn yellow bikes are all over town.

[ptourkin]

Don't ban scooters. Redesign streets:

https://www.curbed.com/word-on-the-street/2018/7/13/17246060/scooters-uber-lyft-bird-lime-streets

[Pinned]

These things are all over LA - they have rightfully earned the ire of pedestrians, cyclists, and drivers alike. I'm not sure if the tourists or the locals are the biggest offenders here, but people riding them seem to be much more reckless than any cyclists.

On the flip side, I think they are a lot of fun and are a much more environmentally friendly way to get around than Uber if I need to get somewhere quickly that isn't bike friendly.

I hope that regulation / local laws tighten things up in the safety regard soon because here in LA we need any incentive we can get for people to utilize public transit or cut down on car use. These things are a great step in that direction.

[Ken Robb]

A wag in San Diego wrote: "If I drop a candy wrapper on the sidewalk I can be cited for littering but if I dump my Bird Scooter there it's fine".

[cmg]

the next generation will be people buying electric scooters instead of renting them. this city is embracing them. saw a group riding south of downtown this morning. faster than waiting for a city bus.

[Mikej]

Here is the only problem, cities aren’t collecting registration fees. Once you pay the city, it’ll be fine.

[colbyh]

Don't ban scooters. Redesign streets:

https://www.curbed.com/word-on-the-street/2018/7/13/17246060/scooters-uber-lyft-bird-lime-streets

Bingo. I'd rather step over scooters on the sidewalk (annoying, yes) than deal with another hurried Uber/Lyft driver speeding inches by me in a crosswalk in their rush to get a 5 star rating or hit a quota.

It's also really funny to me that the responses to scooters here are almost exactly the same as drivers' complaints about cyclists on the road.

[ptourkin]

A wag in San Diego wrote: "If I drop a candy wrapper on the sidewalk I can be cited for littering but if I dump my Bird Scooter there it's fine".

That person is a doofus. Do they complain about cars left on the street?

[benadrian]

That person is a doofus. Do they complain about cars left on the street?

I don't think either of the analogies are quite accurate. In many cases, the bird scooters are left directly in the path of pedestrian traffic on a sidewalk, or in front of doors for residences and businesses.

A more correct analogy to the above might be, would people complain if 1 out of 10 cars parked are either blocking driveways or left in a traffic lane so that cars have to swerve around them?

The idea is cool, and it should work well, but a small percentage of bad actors have the power to make it really crappy.

[ptourkin]

I don't think either of the analogies are quite accurate. In many cases, the bird scooters are left directly in the path of pedestrian traffic on a sidewalk, or in front of doors for residences and businesses.

A more correct analogy to the above might be, would people complain if 1 out of 10 cars parked are either blocking driveways or left in a traffic lane so that cars have to swerve around them?

The idea is cool, and it should work well, but a small percentage of bad actors have the power to make it really crappy.

Both the piece of trash and the scooter can easily be picked up and moved aside. Unlike the trash, the scooter can be used to eliminate wasteful vehicle trips.

Unlike both of the others, the private car that is in the way can't be moved aside by anyone but the owner and unlike the scooter, only benefits the selfish person who left it there.

[MrDangerPants]

Both the piece of trash and the scooter can easily be picked up and moved aside.

Not if you're in a wheelchair.

[ptourkin]

Not if you're in a wheelchair.

This is true but every comment I've seen online about personally having seen this occur cannot be true. Also, San Diego's streets and sidewalks are a ****ing mess, a few misplaced scooters are not the biggest mobility problem for those folks. There is a lot of pearl clutching about new things. It will go away.

People are used to cars but only some forward-thinking urbanists are questioning the way we subsidize them with free storage that is taken for granted while we make other modes much harder to use.

[benadrian]

I don't think anyone wants to see more people in cars and less people on scooters. I think the real problem that people don't want them in their yards and don't want to be responsible for navigating them as sidewalk obstacles due to someone else's bad behavior.

So, the question to address is how do we incentivize good behavior from the end user and disincentivize bad behavior? I don't know in this case. I've seen how various dock-less bikeshares have done it, but scooters are a whole different animal due to size, portability, and that fact that they're electric. Perhaps there needs to be certain "Bird friendly zones" for parking the scooters, and the rates are greatly reduced if you pick up and/or drop off within these zones?

[ORMojo]

I'm in San Diego right now, and it is my 4th city in the past several months where I have come across the scooters, including DC (they aren't in my home town). Frankly, I have enjoyed the sight of them - a lot of use, and a lot of smiles. But then, I don't have to live with them every day, and all of my visits to these cities have been during good weather...

[jtakeda]

I don't think anyone wants to see more people in cars and less people on scooters. I think the real problem that people don't want them in their yards and don't want to be responsible for navigating them as sidewalk obstacles due to someone else's bad behavior.

I agree. I don’t think folks think it would be better to be in cars.
The main issue for me is you have people going 15mph on the sidewalk navigating through children, elderly, disabled and all other people on the sidewalk.

My experience is in San Francisco and more recently they’ve moved to Oakland. These are not empty streets and sidewalks.

Th 2nd issue is this pervasive idea that it’s ok to abuse your fair share of public infrastructure for corporate gain. This idea that to won’t need a permit for storing these or figure out and pay for a location to store them is not necessary because you can just toss it in front of the bus stop is not ok.

[cmg]

Currently the docked bike share program is $10 for 30 minutes but use it less than 30 minutes still $10. The Bird scooter are $1 to log on .15 a minute to be stopped when you log off. so a trip can be as low as $1.15 or $10 an hour. much better travel option than bike share and the VIA bus system. On paper they should work better than what transport systems are there provided your healthy enough to use it.

[ptourkin]

I agree. I don’t think folks think it would be better to be in cars.
The main issue for me is you have people going 15mph on the sidewalk navigating through children, elderly, disabled and all other people on the sidewalk.

My experience is in San Francisco and more recently they’ve moved to Oakland. These are not empty streets and sidewalks.

Th 2nd issue is this pervasive idea that it’s ok to abuse your fair share of public infrastructure for corporate gain. This idea that to won’t need a permit for storing these or figure out and pay for a location to store them is not necessary because you can just toss it in front of the bus stop is not ok.

Again, I question the idea that this is an "abuse" of public infrastructure while we don't question the many costs of allocating space for parking cars. The paradigm needs to change and we should be open to it.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-Updated/dp/193236496X

[FlashUNC]

Again, I question the idea that this is an "abuse" of public infrastructure while we don't question the many costs of allocating space for parking cars. The paradigm needs to change and we should be open to it.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-Updated/dp/193236496X

Well that conversation won't have stupid electric scooters at the vanguard.

They were consistently awful in San Francisco this Spring and I'm glad the city put the clamps down on their nonsense. The clogging the sidewalks thing isn't hyperbole. They were everywhere and they were a nuisance to everyone using the sidewalk, which is congested enough as it is.

[jtakeda]

Again, I question the idea that this is an "abuse" of public infrastructure while we don't question the many costs of allocating space for parking cars. The paradigm needs to change and we should be open to it.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-Updated/dp/193236496X

I haven’t read the book. But I’d also wager to say to you didn’t see the bird scooters this spring first hand.

Also there is almost no free parking here and meter parking can cost up to $8/ hour

[jtakeda]

Well that conversation won't have stupid electric scooters at the vanguard.

They were consistently awful in San Francisco this Spring and I'm glad the city put the clamps down on their nonsense. The clogging the sidewalks thing isn't hyperbole. They were everywhere and they were a nuisance to everyone using the sidewalk, which is congested enough as it is.

This

[cmg]

the issue with parking/dumping could be solved by converting them to a docking station/racks and having a crew pick them up the loose undocked ones every night. that and donating more of their revenue to city coffers, always a solution. looks like a real problem.... not enough room to walk around.

[ptourkin]

I haven’t read the book. But I’d also wager to say to you didn’t see the bird scooters this spring first hand.

Also there is almost no free parking here and meter parking can cost up to $8/ hour

What's the wager?
This is my neighborhood right now.

https://i.imgur.com/g4UxRuzl.png

[jtakeda]

That’s not that many....

It’s more like if that entire screen was a 8 blocks x 8 blocks

[FlashUNC]

the issue with parking/dumping could be solved by converting them to a docking station/racks and having a crew pick them up the loose undocked ones every night. that and donating more of their revenue to city coffers, always a solution. looks like a real problem.... not enough room to walk around.

So wait, you mean what the city bike program already does. Genius! Its almost like they're duplicative and a totally needless form of transit.

[cmg]

So wait, you mean what the city bike program already does. Genius! Its almost like they're duplicative and a totally needless form of transit.

right now the only thing about the scooters that's annoying city officials is that they're not getting a bigger piece of the financial pie. not any more useless than the local city bus system designed to be ineffective and time consuming. city was designed around automobile use and anything threatens single passenger use will be regulated out of existence.

[Tony T]

New England Cities Scramble to Regulate Electric Scooters
by The Associated Press, nytimes.com
July 25, 2018 04:54 PM
PROVIDENCE, R.I. — One New England city is ordering a California company's electric stand-up scooters off its streets and another is scrambling to craft new scooter rules since the rental vehicles began appearing last week with no warning.

Cambridge, Massachusetts, sent a letter to Los Angeles-based startup Bird Rides Inc. on Tuesday, warning that it's illegal to operate its rental scooter business in the city without prior authorization. The college town home to Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology joined cities including Miami, Denver and Milwaukee as the latest battleground between municipal governments and a handful of fast-growing companies in a fierce competition to expand rental scooter and bicycle services around the country.

The dockless scooters appeared before dawn last Friday parked on sidewalks in Cambridge, in neighboring Somerville and in Providence, Rhode Island. All three have otherwise embraced trendy new modes of transportation such as bicycle-share networks or rentable electric-assisted pedal bikes, but Bird's unorthodox approach has grated on city leaders.

A day later, Boston Mayor Marty Walsh said that the scooters would be sent to the tow yard if they arrived in his city without permission.

The company's smartphone app for finding and booking the scooters now shades Boston red, labeling it a "no ride or park zone," but the scooters are still being placed each morning in Cambridge, Somerville and Providence after overnight charging.

Cambridge Vice Mayor Jan Devereux said Bird seems to use stealth launches and then lets city officials scramble for how they want to permit and regulate the scooters.

"It certainly got them a seat at the table," Devereux said. "How they proceed from there is a question of what kind of attitude they bring to that table."

Bird said in a statement on Wednesday that "the people of Cambridge have enthusiastically adopted our affordable, environmentally friendly transportation option." It said it looks forward to meeting with city officials.

The company hasn't said how many scooters it has in each city. It has told some contract employees that it plans to uproot the scooters when the weather gets colder and migrate them to warmer climates for the winter.

Devereux, a bicyclist and public transit advocate, said most Cambridge residents are supportive of transportation alternatives that get people out of cars. At the same time, she said, "we want to have some measure of control" so the scooters don't become a safety hazard or chaotic nuisance.

Cambridge City Manager Louis DePasquale, in his Tuesday letter to Bird, said he would meet with company officials on Monday "to assess whether your business may safely operate in the city, and under what conditions."

As of now, he said, the scooters aren't allowed.

"The city will not permit Bird's electric scooters to be parked and used on city-owned streets, sidewalks and other public property without all required authorizations and permissions having first been obtained," he wrote.

Somerville also said this week its officials will meet with Bird but there "is no contract, license or agreement in place to allow them to operate" at this time.

Providence officials said they're consulting with police and other city officials to craft new rules.

"We're working on a policy that fits the city," said Victor Morente, a spokesman for Providence Mayor Jorge Elorza.

Morente declined to say what that policy might look like.

[texbike]

My issue with the entire Bird model is from a cybersecurity/data protection perspective. One, you must download their app - and we all know how perfectly secure apps are and that they're NEVER abused (ie Uber privacy issues). Two, you're required to scan both sides of your credit card AND both sides of your Drivers License. Given the large scale data breaches that we've seen in the last couple of years, I'm hesitant to participate in programs with those requirements. I told my kids that I would prefer to just buy them a scooter than sign up for the Bird program.

Texbike

[cmg]

don't worry the free market will balance it out. the scooters are being dismantled by thieves looking to sell the batteries. want to build your own power wall? wait 6 weeks and someone will download a how to video on Youtube. eventually they'll have to be docked just to track there whereabouts. once the scooters cut into the local poor funded, poorly manged public transportation ridership the city will notice and crack down to take a slice of the missing revenue.

[gdw]

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-bird-scooter-vandalism-20180809-htmlstory.html#

[bicycletricycle]

I don't like them but I am not sure exactly why.

[MaraudingWalrus]

I don't like them but I am not sure exactly why.

A brief summary of everything ever written on thepaceline.

[bicycletricycle]

A brief summary of everything ever written on thepaceline.

Ha!

[Dad2TnR]

We have tons in downtown Charlotte now. They've all but pushed the dockless bikes out of town, which is fine by me. I see lots of banker-types scooting around in suits and ties throughout the day. I agree that they're a nuisance because users can't be relied upon to stage them in areas out of the way, but they're less of a nuisance than the bikes.

[DukeHorn]

[QUOTE=colbyh;2394884

It's also really funny to me that the responses to scooters here are almost exactly the same as everyone's complaints about cyclists on the sidewalk.[/QUOTE]

Fixed this for you.

What's the liability insurance on these scooters? In the past month In Oakland just during my commute to and from BART, I've seen hit pedestrians, scooters traveling on the wrong side of the road in the bike lane, wheelies, high school kids (or maybe college) racing scooters, u-turns in the middle of the street near oncoming traffic, etc. Darwinism at work??

[Tony T]

NYT: Opinion By The Editorial Board - Electric Scooters in New York City? They Just Might Work
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/18/opinion/electric-scooters-new-york-city.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

[ptourkin]

After a hot day of climbing yesterday, I didn't feel like riding anymore and took a Bird 2.1 miles for burrito and beers and then 2.1 miles back. Anything that equals less miles in a car is a good thing to me.

[C40_guy]

My issue with the entire Bird model is from a cybersecurity/data protection perspective. One, you must download their app - and we all know how perfectly secure apps are and that they're NEVER abused (ie Uber privacy issues). Two, you're required to scan both sides of your credit card AND both sides of your Drivers License. Given the large scale data breaches that we've seen in the last couple of years, I'm hesitant to participate in programs with those requirements. I told my kids that I would prefer to just buy them a scooter than sign up for the Bird program.

Texbike

I don't remember having to scan either credit card or DL when I signed up for both Bird and Lime in San Mateo in July.

That having been said, they suck. God forbid you want to use one after 7 pm. Good luck finding one with any juice.

And good luck not getting run over by some jerk who is too young/stupid to understand physics, mortality and the concept of Darwinism.

[benadrian]

After a hot day of climbing yesterday, I didn't feel like riding anymore and took a Bird 2.1 miles for burrito and beers and then 2.1 miles back. Anything that equals less miles in a car is a good thing to me.

Anything involving burritos and beers is a good thing to me.

[pdmtong]

I'm riding my bike in SF from the train station to the office. These electric scooters give sped to the unskilled and the riders are completely unpredictable.

Now I have to be even more hyper-vigilant when riding - share bikes, electric (skateboards, scooters, bikes), push scooters, segways, pedi-cabs.

even worse are the scooters that have a seat you can sit on...those things can go even faster

[fiamme red]

The NYT is advocating putting regular bikes, e-bikes, and electric scooters together into segregated lanes "that are behind parked cars and other barriers, which shield bikers and scooter riders from traffic and make it harder for cars, vans and trucks to park in them."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/18/opinion/electric-scooters-new-york-city.html

This is a recipe for disaster, Citi Bikes going 7 mph in the same narrow curbside lane with e-bikes and scooters going 20 mph (many of them the wrong way), and pedestrians treating the lane as an extended sidewalk. :help:

[cmg]

SA doesn't seem to be having a problem with them. i would have thought vandalism would have been a problem but i haven't seen trashed scooters and locals are using them. looks like a fun ride.

[fiamme red]

https://www.cnet.com/news/bird-scooters-ceo-where-theres-no-laws-thats-where-we-go-in/

Travis VanderZanden, Bird's CEO, explained Tuesday how the company decides where to launch its dockless, rentable scooters: It depends on the local laws. If there are already laws on the books banning the motorized vehicles, Bird doesn't go there. But if the laws are vague, then it's a go.

"We don't go to New York because it's technically illegal to use a scooter at the state level," VanderZanden said Tuesday at the Vanity Fair New Establishment Summit in Los Angeles. "Where there's no laws, that's where we go in."

...Most of the time, Bird doesn't forewarn officials that it's about to drop hundreds of scooters onto streets. VanderZanden said that's by design. The company's MO is to reach out to city regulators at the same time it launches the scooters.

[cmg]

It's a smart move. With such a low overhead it's kind of hard not to make a profit. These scooters sell for around $900 on Amazon, so Bird probably picked them for a lot less. At $10 an hour for use these things pay for themselves after 90 hours. there's suppose to be a few more start ups looking to enter the market. electric bikes are probably next. The tourists are using them all over downtown.

[mac.]

We have Bird and Lime here in Portland, OR. A number of them have been thrown into the river by homeless...

[R3awak3n]

The NYT is advocating putting regular bikes, e-bikes, and electric scooters together into segregated lanes "that are behind parked cars and other barriers, which shield bikers and scooter riders from traffic and make it harder for cars, vans and trucks to park in them."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/18/opinion/electric-scooters-new-york-city.html

This is a recipe for disaster, Citi Bikes going 7 mph in the same narrow curbside lane with e-bikes and scooters going 20 mph (many of them the wrong way), and pedestrians treating the lane as an extended sidewalk. :help:

with the new electric citi bikes, everyone will be going 20mph... which is the problem for regular bikes that will be going half that... but man, are those e-citi bikes fun

[fiamme red]

We have Bird and Lime here in Portland, OR. A number of them have been thrown into the river by homeless...A video of someone riding one into a canal: https://www.wthr.com/article/rapper-posts-video-friend-riding-bird-scooter-indianapolis-canal.

"As far as the Bird scooter is concerned, it's unclear if it was retrieved or if it still remains at the bottom of the canal." :rolleyes:

[SoCalSteve]

I saw someone crash on a Bird yesterday while riding it the wrong way on the sidewalk...karma?

[fiamme red]

Woman fractures femur in San Diego Bird scooter crash: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/sd-me-scooter-crash-20181019-story.html.

[rinconryder]

I don't live in a city that has them but I do live near a city that has them. Overall I find them to be a great idea and mode of transit but we are certainly experiencing growing pains in regards to the etiquette behind their use as far as how people ride them and where they are parked (although they can be parked in an orderly, considerate fashion if the last user so chooses). People really need to consider the lens that they look at them through - cars are everywhere in the city and could be considered to litter the streets as well so I think that is somewhat of a false argument although that is assuming they are parked in an orderly fashion. Cities could and should designate one parking spot where probably 20 -30 scooters could fit in the place of ONE car - think about that. Have a spot on every block corner, sort of like designated motorcycle parking. If the end user doesn't leave it there (and this can likely be determined via GPS, they get a fine on the credit card that they have on file).

I think the harder part to deal with is the injuries. I rode one without a helmet because it was a spur of the moment thing for me (I needed to get ten blocks after I dropped my wife off and finally parked) but were I a regular user I would carry a helmet with me on my back pack. Maybe helmets should become mandatory. If I lived in a city I would these things regularly or maybe just have my own - I think they are a great way to get around a city.

All in all I think they are a novel and useful tool to get us to one less car. Of course there are growing pains like any new idea but with thoughtful planning and regulation they can become a dependable alternate mode of transit.

[mtechnica]

I think the birds are fun and I don’t have a problem with them.

[fiamme red]

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/24/18016486/oakland-scooter-meeting-skip-lime-bird-helmet-safety-responsibility

We all are reduced to anecdata; very well, as a resident of Oakland, here’s mine. I have never seen a scooter rider wear a helmet. This is probably because the choice to get on a scooter is impromptu. After all, how can you plan to ride a scooter if you don’t have a reliable idea of where the scooter will be when you need it? Passing out helmets — Sandler, Ellington, and MacDonald’s presentations all touted this as part of their community outreach — isn’t helpful if the helmets aren’t available when people want to ride. This is why a lot of cyclists lock our helmets to our bikes; you can’t accidentally leave your bike helmet somewhere, rendering yourself helmetless, if it’s locked to your bike.

Similarly, if the promise of dockless scooters is that riders can use them spontaneously, helmets should be provided with the scooters themselves. Dropping scooters on the streets but placing the burden for safety on users is ridiculous.

I’m not the only person who thinks so. Bird and Lime currently face a class-action lawsuit (https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/class-action-lawsuit-accuses-electric-scooter-companies-of-gross-negligence-due-to-injuries) filed in Los Angeles that accuses the companies — along with two others — of “gross negligence” related to injuries both riders and pedestrians received by nine people. The companies were accused of ”aiding and abetting assaults,” and the filing says the companies are liable because the scooters themselves are unsafe. There are inadequate instructions on the scooters’ use, but inadequate warnings about the scooters’ risks...

[mtechnica]

People in European cities ride everywhere without helmets and everyone talks about how awesome it is they commute on their bikes, but as soon as the birds come here all of a sudden everyone completely loses sight of what they are trying to accomplish and rejects them. How is anything ever going to change?

[fiamme red]

People in European cities ride everywhere without helmets and everyone talks about how awesome it is they commute on their bikes, but as soon as the birds come here all of a sudden everyone completely loses sight of what they are trying to accomplish and rejects them. How is anything ever going to change?We're not talking here about requiring people to wear helmets while riding their own e-scooters.

Bird's m.o. is to swoop in and scatter hundreds or thousands of e-scooters in cities where there are no laws in the books against them. So when people try these out without a helmet, hit a pothole, and slam their heads on the pavement, whose fault is it?

[mtechnica]

We're not talking here about requiring people to wear helmets while riding their own e-scooters.

Bird's m.o. is to swoop in and scatter hundreds or thousands of e-scooters in cities where there are no laws in the books against them. So when people try these out without a helmet, hit a pothole, and slam their heads on the pavement, whose fault is it?

Their own fault? Does there really have to be a law for literally any eventuality? What if someone stabs themselves in the eye with a pencil since there is no law stopping them from doing it?

[cachagua]

As soon as the birds come here all of a sudden everyone completely loses sight of what they are trying to accomplish and rejects them...



I don't think anybody objects to getting people from A to B with less congestion and pollution.

But there are a couple other questions: is that what they're "trying to accomplish", in any meaningful sense? And: is that what's actually going to happen?

There's a good half-dozen businesses that have "share" in the description of what they do (rideshare, bikeshare, scootershare etc.) that are essentially robber-baron operations. Primarily -- to the exclusion of other values -- what they want to accomplish is make really, really immense amounts of money. Of course they're not the only businesses with such priorities, and of course every business has to make some money. But in Bird's case, we can go as far as to say that improving traffic congestion and lessening fossil-fuel consumption aren't really central to their plans.

If either of those things comes about, it'll be pretty much accidental -- it'll be what amounts to an unintended consequence. Only, a number of other things will be too, such as people breaking their heads, people breaking each other's heads, people making a sport ('cause it sure ain't a job) out of recovering the scooters for recharging, piles of the things cluttering up the scenery, et cetera.

It's Bird's willfully turning their back on these problems that I think people object to, don't you? Nobody minds the transportation benefits -- but at what cost, is the thing people are a little apprehensive about.

[cmg]

A small start up with minmal investment is not intended to solve transportation problems.

[ScottW]

First time I had ever seen these scooters was last week when I was in San Diego for a conference. Mostly I was around the Gaslamp Quarter, where they can be found on most corners. Seems like a cool idea, they look fun and the convenience certainly seems appealing. I didn't try one, mostly because I don't like the idea of riding a cageless vehicle without a helmet, but that concept evidently doesn't deter very many people. The entire week I saw precisely one guy wearing one, riding a Lime (helmet also Lime branded), riding properly in the road and generally looking like he was a responsible adult commuting on it.

I never saw any incidents, but saw a couple of close calls with dopes riding these on sidewalks. The area I was in had a high enough pedestrian density and slow enough traffic that riding in the road was clearly the safer way to go. I don't know enough about the rest of that city's neighborhoods (and roads & speed limits) to opine on whether a city-wide ban on sidewalk use would make sense, but these things are motorized vehicles after all.

[FlashUNC]

People in European cities ride everywhere without helmets and everyone talks about how awesome it is they commute on their bikes, but as soon as the birds come here all of a sudden everyone completely loses sight of what they are trying to accomplish and rejects them. How is anything ever going to change?

There's a pretty clear-eyed view of what Bird is trying to accomplish: Make a ton of money exploiting for all intents and purposes a loophole in the laws of local municipalities, under the guise of "disrupting transportation."

Plopping a bunch of scooters down accessible only via an app to further clog sidewalks (both parked and ridden), and bike lanes and streets where nobody's really trained to look for them from one day to the next ain't exactly overhauling human transit as we know it.

This isn't exactly instituting the Dutch's legal requirement of strict liability for drivers on the road. Transform the roads with policy changes, not tech bros looking to make the next unicorn.

[mtechnica]

There's a pretty clear-eyed view of what Bird is trying to accomplish: Make a ton of money exploiting for all intents and purposes a loophole in the laws of local municipalities, under the guise of "disrupting transportation."

Plopping a bunch of scooters down accessible only via an app to further clog sidewalks (both parked and ridden), and bike lanes and streets where nobody's really trained to look for them from one day to the next ain't exactly overhauling human transit as we know it.

This isn't exactly instituting the Dutch's legal requirement of strict liability for drivers on the road. Transform the roads with policy changes, not tech bros looking to make the next unicorn.

I get it, all valid points. On the other hand cars aren’t expensive enough, taxes are too low, and public transportation sucks too much for anything to have changed much in America. Perhaps widespread disruption via birds could be a catalyst needed to get alternative transportation on the map. I know some people are buying their own scooters now. I know they’re an imperfect solution if not any kind of solution at all, but so far absolutely nothing has changed in years save for maybe some more bike lanes here and there. If someone has a more viable plan than flooding the streets with birds by al means implement it, until then, nothing is going to ever change.

[mtechnica]

I don't think anybody objects to getting people from A to B with less congestion and pollution.

But there are a couple other questions: is that what they're "trying to accomplish", in any meaningful sense? And: is that what's actually going to happen?

There's a good half-dozen businesses that have "share" in the description of what they do (rideshare, bikeshare, scootershare etc.) that are essentially robber-baron operations. Primarily -- to the exclusion of other values -- what they want to accomplish is make really, really immense amounts of money. Of course they're not the only businesses with such priorities, and of course every business has to make some money. But in Bird's case, we can go as far as to say that improving traffic congestion and lessening fossil-fuel consumption aren't really central to their plans.

If either of those things comes about, it'll be pretty much accidental -- it'll be what amounts to an unintended consequence. Only, a number of other things will be too, such as people breaking their heads, people breaking each other's heads, people making a sport ('cause it sure ain't a job) out of recovering the scooters for recharging, piles of the things cluttering up the scenery, et cetera.

It's Bird's willfully turning their back on these problems that I think people object to, don't you? Nobody minds the transportation benefits -- but at what cost, is the thing people are a little apprehensive about.

At what cost? Interesting question. Considering the last IPCC report and the absolute political and municipal unwillingness to implement any kind of widespread and sweeping change in America, I think the birds are an experiment worth at least trying because in my lifetime basically nothing has changed in America transportation wise.

[Ken Robb]

First time I had ever seen these scooters was last week when I was in San Diego for a conference. Mostly I was around the Gaslamp Quarter, where they can be found on most corners. Seems like a cool idea, they look fun and the convenience certainly seems appealing. I didn't try one, mostly because I don't like the idea of riding a cageless vehicle without a helmet, but that concept evidently doesn't deter very many people. The entire week I saw precisely one guy wearing one, riding a Lime (helmet also Lime branded), riding properly in the road and generally looking like he was a responsible adult commuting on it.

I never saw any incidents, but saw a couple of close calls with dopes riding these on sidewalks. The area I was in had a high enough pedestrian density and slow enough traffic that riding in the road was clearly the safer way to go. I don't know enough about the rest of that city's neighborhoods (and roads & speed limits) to opine on whether a city-wide ban on sidewalk use would make sense, but these things are motorized vehicles after all.

They are already illegal on San Diego sidewalks but except for some occasional enforcement by groups of Police Officers on the boardwalk by the ocean I haven't seen any ticketing of powered scooters. Given a choice I think I would prefer powered bikes as they are more noticeable and more stable but they also must cost a lot more to buy.

[fiamme red]

Bird e-scooter explodes in Mesa apartment as it was being charged: http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-news/bird-e-scooter-explodes-in-mesa-apartment-as-it-was-being-charged.

:eek:

[cmg]

"Harb told Mesa Fire Department crews she pulled the scooter out of a pool the day before the fire, and she followed all the instructions on how to dry it before plugging the scooter in. After it exploded in her apartment,Harb tried to use the fire extinguisher before putting the scooter outside."

So she pulls out the scooter that had been tossed into a swimming pool, tries to dry it following so on-line instruction and it catches fire/shorts out when she tries to recharge it. Yea, who would have guessed.

[25.4]

https://www.instagram.com/birdgraveyard/

[KJMUNC]

Until cities start fining the owning company (Bird/whomever) for unattended scooters left overnight or out of the designated zone - like they do for cars and I'd expect for motorcycles or even bikes - I think they'll continue.

I can't stand them....sure they are a convenient way to move around, but it's a free-for-all when people are riding them. I've been buzzed on the sidewalk with my kids, had them ride in traffic like they were a car but at 5mph, and seen folks who were clearly hammered - whereas if they were on anything else they'd get a DUI.

I'm all for better modes of transit, but let's just put some structure around these so it's not just all about the company making money while our cities get trashed with a bunch of scooters lying about and wreaking havoc.

[19wisconsin64]

Good idea, it's just that the US does not have either the correct infrastructure or population mindset to make these types of transportation safe or beneficial on the whole.

If we had dedicated cycling / electric travel scooter lanes that were entirely separate like in some countries then it would be possible. Once these lanes were installed in all areas of transportation across the country then a mindset of sharing this dedicated lane in a proper and lawful manner would have to occur-basically people would have to know how to be properly and safely ride their bicycles and electric vehicles.

It's a good idea, it just won't work in the US. Well, unless the dedicated lanes go in and folks learn how to use those provided lanes. It can work on a small scale for some forward-thinking communities, but for god sakes, the US is not ready for some kid texting away while riding on a rental electric vehicle gunning down the sidewalk in your / our towns. Nope.

[bward1028]

I often use an electric scooter to go pick up Brussels sprouts at the store.

[dave thompson]

I often use an electric scooter to go pick up Brussels sprouts at the store.

See,now grok it. Plus you’re being funny.

[fiamme red]

Now, for a small fee, you can become an e-scooter entrepreneur and own your personal "fleet": https://www.bird.co/platform/. :rolleyes:

[2LeftCleats]

Yesterday, a local trash truck emptied a dumpster which contained some Lime scooters. The compactor ruptured one of the lithium batteries, causing a fire in the truck. Driver had to dump the flaming garbage at the nearest safe spot, a church parking lot.

Also in local news, a young man was hauled off for drunk driving after being found laying beside a scooter he'd crashed. Had facial injuries and strong smell of alcohol. Surprisingly, he was not wearing a helmet.

[C40_guy]

Also in local news, a young man was hauled off for drunk driving after being found laying beside a scooter he'd crashed. Had facial injuries and strong smell of alcohol. Surprisingly, he was not wearing a helmet.

That's weird. Lime and Bird both insist that you should wear a helmet while operating their scooters.

And Lime (or Bird, can't remember which), offers two very convenient places to pick up helmets, both in the SF area (IIRC). D'oh.

[Burnette]

Unfortunately I have to make trips through Winston Salem, NC where they have scooters. Young, old, no matter who I see on the scooters they all seem to behave as if they are alone on closed roads, for which they are not. Uturns in the intersection, stop, step off and look at cell phone, come right at you the wrong way head on.

Two weeks ago I was on 5th street, which is about a 12% grade. Saw four young girls riding two scooters on the sidewalk. I sat at the intersection of 5th and Main St and watched the girls get on the scooters and barrel towards Main. First two girls couldn't stop, went right into traffic and fell beside a gray car. The car pulled off, the girls jumped up and ran across the street and kept going, leaving the scooter in the middle of Main, the other girls got off on the sidewalk and joined the others.

The cities of Greensboro and Winston Salem have called a timeout on scooters, pulling them from the streets. People will get hurt, some could die, nobody is talking responsibility.

[CunegoFan]

Now, for a small fee, you can become an e-scooter entrepreneur and own your personal "fleet": https://www.bird.co/platform/. :rolleyes:

Shouldn't that be a "flock"?

[windsurfer]

Got hit by a dude on a scooter in the parking lot tonight. Was pushing my cart back to the car when some dude lost control of his scooter while trying to answer his phone and crashed into my cart.

Should have ripped the phone from his hands and thrown it across the parking lot.

[gdw]

https://www.cnet.com/news/electric-scooters-by-bird-and-lime-are-causing-injuries-and-accidents/

[fiamme red]

https://www.cnet.com/news/electric-scooters-by-bird-and-lime-are-causing-injuries-and-accidents/Wow, that's pretty scary.

Scripps Mercy Hospital in San Diego began tracking injuries in late summer. Dr. Vishal Bansal, medical director of trauma at Scripps, said they've documented more than 30 cases, for an average of about 10 a month. These cases only involve scooter riders, not pedestrians hit by the vehicles.

In Austin, the rate of accidents appears to be even higher. Doctors in Dell Seton's emergency room say they're seeing about 10 injuries a day...:eek:

[b33]

https://www.cnet.com/news/electric-scooters-by-bird-and-lime-are-causing-injuries-and-accidents/

That was a great article “disrupting broken wrists” :)

[fiamme red]

https://slate.com/technology/2018/12/electric-scooter-bird-lime-lakes-rivers-environment-vandalism.html

Oakland, California’s Lake Merritt is the oldest wildlife refuge in North America and home to dozens of bird species. Within its 3.4 miles of shoreline, it’s not uncommon to see great blue herons and snowy egrets soaring over flocks of bobbing ruddy ducks. But over the past year, another bird—well, a Bird—has joined the other lake denizens. Just in October, cleanup crews fished out of the lake more than 60 electric scooters, made by Bird and its competitor Lime as well as lesser-known comers like Skip and Wind, according to James Robinson, executive director of the Lake Merritt Institute. Robinson recently met with representatives from Lime and Bird as well as Oakland’s Department of Transportation to address what he’s calling a “crisis” for the lake.

Oakland’s not the only place you’ll find troubled waters. In Portland, Oregon, so many scooters have ended up in the Willamette River that some disgruntled Portlanders made a website, scootersintheriverpdx.com, that documents just what its URL promises: How many scooters have been thrown into the Willamette River? Portland police have responded to several reports of people throwing the scooters into the river...Bird is trying to persuade NYC that its scooters are the answer to the L train shutdown: https://mma.prnewswire.com/media/795753/Bird_L_Train_E_Scooter.pdf. If these scooters do come to NYC, I bet that lots would end up in the East River.

[cribbit]

https://slate.com/technology/2018/12/electric-scooter-bird-lime-lakes-rivers-environment-vandalism.html

Bird is trying to persuade NYC that its scooters are the answer to the L train shutdown: https://mma.prnewswire.com/media/795753/Bird_L_Train_E_Scooter.pdf. If these scooters do come to NYC, I bet that lots would end up in the East River.

They'll get dropped off the tops of buildings.

Also the pavement on many streets is barely passable on a bike, much less a scooter. Bowery is absolute trash right now. To be fair the repaving project is going and making many roads a lot better but that'll still take some time.

[MerckxMad]

I think one of the problems with companies that offer untethered rental scooters/bikes is that they often move into unregulated areas without first engaging the community or local government. The business model is "well there's no law prohibiting us, so let's put these scooters on city streets and make money until someone in government stops us."

[lucieli]

I don't have a problem with the scooters but given all the accidents and injuries, I can't imagine they'll be around too long.

[Seramount]

scooters were not a thing only a few months ago, now they're ubiquitous...the rate at which they've spread from downtown to the outermost 'burbs is amazing.

Bird and Lime have something like 7K units in AUS (altho Lime has been told to remove 500 from the downtown area for violating city ordinances). Uber is introducing a fleet of them and Lyft wants to add another 500.

every bus stop has a half-dozen, most street corners have at least two, and there's random ones scattered throughout most neighborhoods. they're becoming a visual blight, you simply cannot go anywhere without seeing one.

seems like gross overkill...for every one in use, there's 10 idle ones.

can't imagine this trend will go unchanged...

[fiamme red]

Interesting analysis, showing how far Bird is from being profitable: https://oversharing.substack.com/p/shared-scooters-dont-last-long.

...Still with me? Ok. So, our scooter company walks away with $2.32 in revenue per day from the average scooter in Louisville. As we said at the beginning, Louisville data indicates that the average scooter was around for between 28 and 32 days. That means the typical scooter generated something like $65 to $75 in revenue for the company after most operating costs over its lifetime.

You see where I’m going with this. Let’s be generous and say the company paid $360 for each scooter, as Bird aims to. At the rates calculated above, that company only recoups $65 to $75 on the cost of each scooter—in other words, it loses $295 to $285 per scooter. That doesn’t even include the $50 annual fee per dockless vehicle, the $3,000 in combined licensing fees, or the $100 fee for each designated parking area. Plug in the $551 sticker price for a scooter, and the losses are even greater.

Bad as these numbers are, they maybe shouldn’t be surprising. The electric scooters Bird deployed for shared commercial use, at least initially, were rebranded Xiaomi devices intended for use by a single owner with a weight limit of 200 pounds. The average American man weighs 197.9 pounds and the average woman 170.6 lbs. These scooters were also designed to be used in mild weather and on flat surfaces. They were absolutely not designed to be ridden multiple times a day in all kinds of weather and on all kinds of terrain by Americans who, on average, are barely under the scooter weight limit before you adjust for clothes and any baggage (physical, not emotional) they might be carrying. No doubt facing such inconvenient truths, Bird in October unveiled an electric scooter designed with Okai specifically for sharing. It will require great leaps in durability and far cheaper prices for scooters to pay for themselves...

[jtakeda]

Ill get a better photo with the pile of scooters behind me next time

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7884/47274298091_88808047c0_c.jpg

[likebikes]

Interesting analysis, showing how far Bird is from being profitable: https://oversharing.substack.com/p/shared-scooters-dont-last-long.

#bigdata

[BobbyJones]

I just don't see how ANY of these companies are going to make money.

This whole "startup" culture puzzles me sometimes.

Everyone I know who has ever been involved in one is has always been concerned about two things: growth and "another round of financing". No one ever seems to have been concerned with profit.

[tylercheung]

For short hops it's actually nice...I'm sure there's going to be a certain percentage of riders that fall on their face though...

Interestingly enough, there was an article that basically traces these scooters back to the original Segway - which had gone bankrupt and went thru a few rounds of buyers before landing w/ the current Chinese owners

[cmg]

lyft just entered the san antonio market. the small downtown tourist hub seem to enjoy it. kind of question the 28 day assumption of scooter life referenced in the article. scooters are more popular than the JUMP ebikes.

[mikehkaiser]

Haven't used one myself, but I've nearly hit enough riders jumping out in front of me to be turned off to the idea. And a friend who works for one of the companies recently got into an accident on one and was beat up pretty badly. Seems like there's a high chance of hitting your head from a fall.

I'd rather ride my bike.

[fiamme red]

Interesting article about problems inside the Bird workplace: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/23/21231802/bird-electric-scooter-company-workplace-culture-layoffs.

Emma was one of 406 Bird employees who lost their jobs that day, out of the company’s 1,400 or so worldwide... In some ways, Emma was one of the lucky ones. She was luckier than the many employees who’d received the news secondhand, either because their shift was at another time of day or because the company had purchased a webinar license that was too small and accidentally locked many invitees out. She was luckier than the IT staffer who apparently wrote the script to instantly deactivate their accounts — with no idea that it would be used to disable his account, too, which then disrupted the whole process until the remaining IT staff could find a plan B.:rolleyes:

[Cgeisler]

before the shutdown, in Austin anyway, seems like the news included at least one cracked skull/trauma helmetless scooter accident a week.

[Red Tornado]

before the shutdown, in Austin anyway, seems like the news included at least one cracked skull/trauma helmetless scooter accident a week.

My wife and I encountered scooters en masse for the first time a couple years ago in San Antonio, than again Austin later. We prefer to walk. I don't think I ever witnessed so many close calls/near misses in such a short time span. So many people riding those things were acting like they had the right of way over everyone else, or like they were the only ones out there. IMHO these scooters are very dangerous, because of the idiots that ride them like idiots, and a detractor to the downtown scene.

[tctyres]

Interesting article about problems inside the Bird workplace: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/23/21231802/bird-electric-scooter-company-workplace-culture-layoffs.

:rolleyes:

This reads like a lot of the Uber: poor performance and poor leadership.

I'm not a fan of rental scooters, fwiw.

[jtakeda]

Interesting article about problems inside the Bird workplace: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/23/21231802/bird-electric-scooter-company-workplace-culture-layoffs.

:rolleyes:

haha. after reading that this is EXACTLY how I thought the staff of bird would act.

I hate those scooters, good riddance, now if we can get rid of the "scoot" ones and lastly the rental moped things.

[Bostic]

Reading that article it sounds like Bird is using Jamf Pro or another type of MDM solution for their deployed Mac laptops. The IT admin creates a policy to send the remote lock command to the Macs. When it's issued, they get that command the lock up to a BIOS type password that can't be bypassed. If you don't know the 6 digit code, the Mac is a brick as it will not boot.

Don't have your work Mac connected to the Internet if you have a gut feeling about an upcoming meeting and you want to spend time to get your data of the system beforehand via usb-c to external hard disk.

[William]

Most people I've come up on riding one of these look like a hybrid of a squirrel and a triathlon rider doing a training ride on a TT bike. :eek: ;);)

I've actually seen people (teens) doubled up on these twitching down the sidewalks.







W.