Campagnolo Chain Problem

[saab2000]

So I get home today from a four day trip. My cables and chain are waiting for me. I wanna get the Look put together.

So I do the chain first. I read the directions carefully. I proceed to break the little guide pin. You know, the one which helps the pin into the chain. The little part broke off. You Campagnolo people know what I am talking about.

I tried for at least an hour to work with different solutions. No go.

Is there any way to salvage this situation without spending $25 for another guide pin?

I used a Park chain tool, which is unauthorized. Should I spend the $99 for the Campagnolo chain tool for this job?

This is for the 5.9 mm chain.

Any suggestions? Realistic ones. Not "Change to Shimano" 'cuz it ain't happening.

I did the same procedure in the Spring for my CIII also with some difficulty, but the guide pin did not break.

[pale scotsman]

I'd use a connex quicklink. Makes life easier all around.

[Redturbo]

Saab,
I've found it to be a two man job to get it lined up and installed if you break the guide. I have a new spare pin I can send you if you need one. good luck

turbo

[saab2000]

How about the Connex link? Or the Super Link?

Are these detachable links made for 5.9 chains and will they be safe?

Educate me. I checked the Wipperman site and they are made for 6.2 for Campagnolo and 6.0 for Shimano.

[Redturbo]

The connex link is why I have the spare campy pins. I've raced and put a lot of training miles on them with no problems. The only side note is, my watts per kilo are good but I'm the prototypical racer size dude.

[Tailwinds]

I have thousands of miles on a Connex link and have had no problems with it, but I am a lightweight.

[csm]

connex here too. I weigh about 195 lbs and have it on a ten speed chain. no issues yet.

[CarbonTi]

I checked the Wipperman site and they are made for 6.2 for Campagnolo and 6.0 for Shimano.
Use the Connex for 10-Speed Shimano if you're using the Campy Ultra Narrow chain otherwise use the regular 10-Speed Connex for the older Campy UD chain. Works fine.

[Tailwinds]

Works fine.

That's right -- I will never go back.

[obtuse]

i've broken two chains at the connex link in up-hill out of the saddle efforts. yes, they were installed correctly and in a competent manner. i know they have worked for other folks but imho bro atmo; they suck.

saab-don't do it.

obtuse

[toaster]

I've used Connex links for tens of thousands of miles and I can put out some watts!

No problems.

[stevep]

one of my riders (140 pounds cat 1 ) has busted 2 wipperman chains. they broke in the middle of the link.
he would not ride another for for all the tea in china.

[Elefantino]

At least we have a consensus...

[sspielman]

I have never had a problem with the NICKEL Connex chain....but I have heard of LOTS of problems with the STAINLESS model...

[stevep]

I have never had a problem with the NICKEL Connex chain....but I have heard of LOTS of problems with the STAINLESS model...

dont know which one. ill ask him.

[saab2000]

I have used Wipperman chains. But that was before I used Campagnolo 10-speed.

I like the 5.9 Campy chain, but their solution for joining it is weak. The guide pin is aluminum. I may need to invest the $100 for their tool as it looks more suitable for this job.

[CarbonTi]

Just to add to add to the mud and elaborate on what I said earlier:

I currently use the Connex on Campy chains. I have also in the past broken at least two of the Connex links installed on different bikes. These links were purchased from 2 years ago. The chains on these bikes were sometimes heavily loaded as they were used in low-RPM strength work in hills. The Connex link failure showed up first as side-plate radial cracks emanating from the pin.

Bought new links to replace. The newer links purchased had different appearance in the metal side-plate from old. Monitored closely for potential link failure. After 1 season of use, no additional failures.

The Connex link is a compromise - not as bomb-proof as Campy's recommended joiner but far more convenient for maintenance. Even those of us without the prodigious wattage spike of a jerk-type jump might bust a link. Use a Connex knowing the risks. (Good grief, this sounds like a public health advisory)

BTW: saab if you install the Campy link do so with the chain off the chainring so it's not under tension from the derailleur because it skews the sideplates and causes the pin not to go in straight. I too have broken pins.

[saab2000]

I do appreciate the warnings. I like my skin on the outside, bones on the inside and all my teeth in my mouth. Broken chains at bad moments can change all those things in a hurry.

[Birddog]

Saab, exact same thing happened to me a coupla months ago. I'm not a ham fisted mechanic, but that damn pin got a little crooked and it broke. I thought ***, I've got a Connex link, I'll try that. So far so good, and mine is for the 6.1 chain. I'm going to get a 5.9, but the 6.1 seems to work just fine.

I'm one of those folks who have had a Wipperman SS chain break (after only about 500 miles). I've had no problems with the nickel version. I've also used the Connex link for about 3 years and the only problem I've ever had was when one day it fell off (yes it was correctly installed) about a half mile from home. Luckily I found both parts, hooked it up and went on my way. I now carry a 2nd link just in case. I suspect that the Connex should be replaced maybe every other chain if not with every new chain.

Birddog

[zeroking17]

Bite the bullet and buy the Campy chain tool. Given the escalating price of chains, the chain tool itself is well worth the investment. It works like a charm.

[jemoryl]

I'm having sucess using the 6.2mm KMC missing link with the regular Campy 10 spd. chain. It was sold to me by a local high end shop which sponsors a team sucessfully using this link. They probably make a version for the narrower Shimano chains that might also work for the new ultra-narrow Campy.

The KMC DX-10 chain I have on another bike is pretty good too, and cost $25.

Some people also like the quick link sold by Lickton's; a 5.9 mm version is said to be in the works.

[zap]

If the guide pin you need is the same as the original Campy 10spd chain, I can mail you one. Can anyone confirm if they are the same?

I use an 8spd chain tool when assembling the Campy 10 chain. It can be done but care must be taken to set everything up right and to ensure the pin extends beyond the link plates just so. As mentioned earlier, no tension on the chain.

I actually like the Campy setup better than shimano.

I've broken chains in the past when hammering up hills. It hurts. So I stick to what each respective manufaturer includes in the packaging. No mixing of chain parts for Zap.

[toaster]

Let me clarify my earlier post.

I use Campagnolo Record 10 speed HD-L chains (CN03-RE10) with the Wipperman link.

I will not use the Wipperman chain but the link has a lot of benefits and works great. You have to follow a couple rules, like making sure it's not mis-aligned and putting it on in the proper direction, then it's been absolutely trouble free for a strong 190 lbs. rider in sprints, up steep pitches, and over tens of thousands of miles.

[Xyzzy]

If the guide pin you need is the same as the original Campy 10spd chain, I can mail you one. Can anyone confirm if they are the same?They are not the same.

[saab2000]

All I need is the tiny little guide thingy with the little nib on it. That little nib (or whatever you want to call that protrusion) broke off, making it now impossible to install the link pin. I don't know what to do, short of ordering a Campagnolo replacement link, which is a lot of dough to replace something that probably cost $.01 to make.

This is the most obscene design I know of. The little guide pin is made of aluminum.

I am at a loss cuz breaking this little thing practically makes the $60 chain just a bunch of scrap metal. :crap:

[zap]

Sorry saab, i tried to help but it looks like my guide pins won't work with your narrower 10 spd chain.

Why don't you buy another chain. Your going to need a new one next year anyhow. Just don't lose that guide pin.

[Tom]

I was trying to use a Park tool and I buggered the job hopelessly, and I couldn't figure it out because I'd never had a problem before. It was one of the new skinny chains.

OK, full disclosure. It was me. But I am sure that using the older Park tool had to be part of it because the skinny chain doesn't seem to sit right in it. I think what happened was Campy figured out you didn't need their tool for the old chains so they fixed that problem.

[Ken Robb]

before I'd spend $100 for a tool that Campy might make obsolete I'd have to ask how much a shop would charge me to install a chain that I bought from them. I doubt that I could amortize the $100 plus tax for the tool.

[saab2000]

Update: Through some divine intervention, I was able to line up the little pin with the inner and outer parts of the link and use an old compression-type pliers which was for older Campagnolo chains and actually compress the link pin in. I finished it with my Park chain tool.

But I have also ordered a new Campagnolo chain tool from the LBS called Fat Frogs in VA Beach here.

I will have to monitor this link for any signs of a problem. It seems to work fine :banana: at the moment, but as others have noted, chain problems can be dangerous.

The Look is set up and in my unbelievable cheapness I have used the old tape and it looks terrible!! But it works fine and the old tape will eventually wear in. Probably I will just replace it in a while, but for now it will do fine.

The fork still needs to be cut down.

Pics to follow.

I am guessing the bike is around 17-18 lbs.

[Xyzzy]

There is a guy who sells the chain tool on eBay for around $70. I bought one from him and it was new, sealed in the box.

Edit: I guess the price has gone up some:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120023140530

[Chief]

There is a guy who sells the chain tool on eBay for around $70. I bought one from him and it was new, sealed in the box.

Edit: I guess the price has gone up some:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120023140530

If you go to "View Our Other Items" on the above website, you can find the tool for $79.95--$5 less.

[pale scotsman]

How in the heck is Campy mating an AL guide to a steel pin? Is it glued?

[Xyzzy]

How in the heck is Campy mating an AL guide to a steel pin? Is it glued?
The guide pin is male shaped and the connecting pin is female.

See page 27 & page 28.

http://www.campagnolo.com/pdf/7225301_Ultra_Narrow_chain.pdf

[toaster]

Campy chain care 101

Parts:
Campy C10 HD-L chain
Wipperman Connex Campy 10 spd connector link
Basic chain breaker tool

Cleaning:

Remove chain from bike
Soak chain in diesel as solvent (or mineral spirits, never gasoline)
Agitate and or brush links to remove crud.
Hang chain to air dry and/or compressed air to blow out solvent.

Install and lube:

Go to a hobby store and find a plastic hypodermic-style applicator (looks like a syringe with a curved plastic "needle").

Install chain on bike

Insert this tool into your bottle of lube and fill syringe. Now put one drop on each roller of your chain.

Spin chain for many revolutions and then use a rag to wipe off excess.

There, my tutorial.

[Tom Kellogg]

Saab:

We normally just throw out the guide pins. I have a few lying around from build-ups. PM me if you still need one.

The Campy chain tool is THE BEST ten speed chain tool out there. Even if you are a complete klutz, the tool will hold the chain securely and perfectly in line as you press the pin in place. The real trick with this tool is the the back outer plate is fully supported ... there is no recess in the back support. This aspect of the design prevents any possible mushrooming of the back plate. Keep in mind that you can NOT use the Campy tool with a nine speed chain, it just won't fit.

Any horror stories about the Whipperman chains are about their stainless chains. Those chains will begin to fracture around the pin holes pretty quickly. They tend to get tight links as well. The nickel plated versions work great. The Campy chains run a bit quieter than the Whippermans and especially the Shimanos. I use a Whipperman 1008 because they are cheap and work well. Campy makes a better chain though.

[Avispa]

I have used Wipperman chains. But that was before I used Campagnolo 10-speed.

I like the 5.9 Campy chain, but their solution for joining it is weak. The guide pin is aluminum. I may need to invest the $100 for their tool as it looks more suitable for this job.

Or try to save on something that is going to give you headaches later! For quick links, I only trust IRD's Snap-Links, but they are not making their links for 5.9 Campy chains yet. So I will wait...

However, I have also been using the Campy chain tool for a couple of years and it has never failed me. For the Ultra Narrow Chains, I think its a must!

One thing I have been able to do with the Campy tool, is pull the pins almost all the way to remove the chain to clean it. Then put the pin back in place... There is almost no way to do this with non-Campy chain tools on Campy chains, that is.

Good luck and Cheers, bro!

[Dave]

The Campy HD-L pin is easily installed with an ordinary Park chain tool. The trick is to drape the chain around the BB shell to eliminate all the tension on the chain. Also be sure to install the pin from the left side. I've installed several and never spent more than a couple of minutes on the job.

The guide pin should never have any pressure on it if it's used properly. There is no reason to break one.

A others noted, the Campy version of the connex link works with the original campy 10 chain and the shimano version is an acceptable, but not perfect mate with the new campy ultra narrow chain.

Another option is a shimano 10 chain with the campy 10 version of the connex link, NOT the shimano version, which is too tight a fit. Ideally, there should be .004-.005 inch of clearance between the inner and outer plates when a chain is new.

[Vancouverdave]

I install several Campy 10 chains a month for clients and have no problems using..........A Shimano HG9 chain tool! Like sspielman, I have also found the cheaper nickel-plated Wipperman chains to have no problems but the stainless ones to have a breakage history; this is under the use of club riders who have more weight than wattage.

[saab2000]

Thanks for the offers of help. I did get the chain connected and have ordered the tool for the next time I need to do this. The Park tool is nice for normal chains, but Campy's pin will probably work better with Campy's tool.

As usual, it is very smooth shifting and runs quietly. This narrow chain is probably the biggest actual improvement to Campagnolo's lineup in years. It makes the shifting very smooth and quiet and much less clunky than before.

[Dan Oakland]

I installed a new Campy chain a few weeks ago with a Park tool. Took me 5-6 shots at it before I was able push it through. I thought I was going to break the pin for sure.
So when I got a new chain for my wife's Campy bike last week I brought it to the shop. Cost me almost nothing to have the Wrench do it with the right tool.
Dan

[Dave]

I installed a new Campy chain a few weeks ago with a Park tool. Took me 5-6 shots at it before I was able push it through. I thought I was going to break the pin for sure.
So when I got a new chain for my wife's Campy bike last week I brought it to the shop. Cost me almost nothing to have the Wrench do it with the right tool.
Dan

Did you drape the chain over the BB shell to eliminate chain tension and install the pin from the left side? If you don't have Campy's tool, then chain tension will insure a disaster. I've installed several of these pins with a Park CT-3 and never had a bit of problem.

[Birddog]

It's not the chain tension only that makes this difficult. When you apply force to the chain via the chain tool, there is some twisting that occurs as force is applied to the pin, and it's damn near impossible to keep the pin straight whether the chain is in tension or not. The chain tool is simply too wide to properly execute the move unless you are a little bit lucky or one of those rare perfect individuals. The Campy ultra narrow is a damn fine chain but I for one won't be rushing out to buy an overpriced proprietary chain tool anytime soon, so the Connex link is a cost effective and viable solution.

Birddog