Cavendish, Merckx and the total TdF Stage Wins Record

[bikingshearer]

I am interested in folks' take on the record for most Tour de France stage wins.
Eddy Merckx holds the record with 34. Mark Cavendish is next with 30. I think Bernard Hinault is third with 28, but don't quote me on that.

Something in me very much does not want Cavendish to catch Merck, much less pass him. I have nothing against Cavendish, and I have long been impressed with his ability to come out of seemingly nowhere to blast by everyone in a sprint.

I don't even think that Merckx's record is sacrosanct - all records are made to be broken. (Okay, Cy Young's 511 wins is a record made not to be broken.) But if and when it does get broken, I'd like to see it be done by someone with a more complete set of skills than just being a good sprinter.

That's my take. what's yours?

[steelbikerider]

He won't catch him because he is done. He may get a stage or 2 but his days as the #1 sprinter are over. He doesn't sprint when he doesn't think he can win and I don't see him with the leadout train to keep him at the front or the nerves anymore to fight for wheels and freelance. In the days of his winning, his leadout trains were awesome and many of his wins came when his train just dropped him at the front at a speed so high few can could come around him. He seems to have lost the either the acceleration to close the deal or the top end to pass.

As you can probably tell. I was never a big Cav fan but I will admit he was hard to beat for 3-4 years.

[Shortsocks]

Unfortunately I agree. Cav's glory days are over. It was a BLAST to watch him when he was in his prime. Stage 20 of the 2012 Tour de France was a classic. One of my Fav stage wins of all time.

[classtimesailer]

I'm a Cav Fan but it doesn't look like he'll be breaking that record. He didn't try getting closer today for sure.

[FlashUNC]

Sprinting's a young man's game, but I see Cav breaking the record.

The argument is him or Cipo for the greatest sprinter of all time, but I think when all's said and done Cav will have the palmares that puts him over the top.

[weisan]

Eddy Merckx did not start out in his racing career to set some kinda of record. Neither did Cavendish.

We are the ones who put them on the pedestal and created these stupid games.

If there's one thing common between these two men, is their seemingly insatiable desire to win. And that's what makes them so successful in what they do.

[rustychisel]

Eddy Merckx did not start out in his racing career to set some kinda of record. Neither did Cavendish.

We are the ones who put them on the pedestal and created these stupid games.

If there's one thing common between these two men, is their seemingly insatiable desire to win. And that's what makes them so successful in what they do.

Yes, point taken, but it's not that nuanced. They knew what they were signing up for when they began their professional careers, if not before. The gut, the glory...

Cavendish still desires the win but has not the hunger. He's older, he's a father, and he's had a couple of really heavy crashes in sprint leadups. As a result he chooses his battles rather more carefully these days, I expect.

[Shoeman]

Seems like the last couple of seasons he has trouble staying upright.

[bikingshearer]

Eddy Merckx did not start out in his racing career to set some kinda of record. Neither did Cavendish.

We are the ones who put them on the pedestal and created these stupid games.

If there's one thing common between these two men, is their seemingly insatiable desire to win. And that's what makes them so successful in what they do.

I agree that they both have had an insatiable desire to win (and well put, Weisan-pal). Cavendish's capacity for risk-taking and coming back from disaster speaks volumes about how badly we wants to win, and they didn't call Merckx "The Cannibal" for nothing,

To be clear in case I wasn't, this isn't about personalities or "I like this guy, I don't like that guy," at least not for me. For me, its more about what kind of racer I'd like to see have the honor of most Tour stage wins. I'd prefer to see Merckx with the title, as befitting his status of the best ever and because he was a complete racer, good at all phases of the sport. (People forget that he was a better than average roadman sprinter and successful in Six-Day races in addition to his climbing, descending and time trialing skiils.) I see Cavendish as a one-trick pony - it's a darn good trick, perhaps the best combination of raw speed and tactical savvy I've ever seen, but it's still only one trick. That, to me, makes me prefer to see him not get to 34 TdF stage wins.

I understand that this is very much a "YMMV" thing, dependent on personal opinion and preference. It's those personal preferences and options I'm interested in hearing.

[colbyh]

If there's one thing common between these two men, is their seemingly insatiable desire to win.

I'm not a Cav hater at all but that dude pulls up the *millisecond* he doesn't think he can win. Insatiable isn't exactly how I'd label him.

[verticaldoug]

He's only 33. He can still have 2 or 3 more years if he wants it. The question is does he want it. It looks like he had one too many hard crashes and just doesnt want to throw down and he realizes he doesn't have the extra margin to squeeze throw the last minute opening.

[harlond]

But if and when it does get broken, I'd like to see it be done by someone with a more complete set of skills than just being a good sprinter.

That's my take. what's yours?Cycling becomes ever more specialized over time. There can't be a Merckx today because someone with "a more complete set of skills" can't beat the specialized sprinters on the flat stages or the pure climbers on the mountain stages. That doesn't leave a lot of stage win opportunities.

I believe the level of competition today is significantly higher than it was when Merckx rode (he's still the GOAT!), so I think Cav getting the record would be a good thing.

[bigbill]

Not the same race as the 60's or 70's. Merckx crushed his opponents but now there are 4-5 riders each year that could win. That said, I have much more respect for a rider like Sagan who battles for the green jersey and is willing to sprint for second or third place instead of being all or nothing. He is also quick to congratulate the person who beat him, I respect that too.

[saab2000]

His contract is up this year. If he doesn’t do something soon he won’t get a contract with a team that gets invited to the TdF. And as I type this he is in danger of missing the time cut today.

[MattTuck]

I don't particularly care for Cav, and I personally don't think he's going to win enough to break the record.

Too many talented younger sprinters coming up. Cav's track record with crashes makes me wonder how many actual sprint stages he'll contest in the next few years, and finally without wins, teams may be less likely to commit to building a team around him, which will further hamper him. (not scientific, but my impression is that he does better with a more organized lead out) The guys on the show last night said he just had a baby 5 weeks ago, and has been traveling for 4 of those weeks. As a new dad myself, can't imagine that he is particularly happy with that work/life balance... not sure if that makes him more or less motivated/able to win stages.

I could be completely wrong, of course... but that is my prediction.


As far as breaking the record, I really think that Merckx and Hinnault have a legacy that will stand on their own. They won stages AND the G.C.

Even if Cav breaks the record, he's going to be known as the most prolific sprinter the tour ever had... he already has that title. So, not sure what additional meaning a few more sprint wins will have.

[jamesdak]

I hope he does break it!:banana::banana::banana::banana:

[PQJ]

I'm a long-time fan of the Manx Missile and would love to see him both win more stages and break Eddy's record. Alas, I don't think he will ever beat the record. And while he may win 1 more stage, he'd be lucky to do so. Put a fork in him; he's done.

[beeatnik]

Tiger has a better chance of catching Jack N. and we know how that's been going. Tho he'll likely break Sam Snead's record.

[redir]

The sprint trains didn't really start until the late 90's with Cipollini and Saeco team. Merckx didn't have that kind of support. I think Cipo won a couple races the year he was 38 years old. But the competition at the sprint in the Tour is pretty tough. I don't think he well beat Eddy's record but he might get another one.

[azrider]

I don't like or dislike either rider in any way over the other.

But no way Cav breaks it.

As others have said, the massive lead out trains that were built around him/for him were huge part of his dominance. Now that he's on lesser team those lead-outs aren't as strong and the wins ain't coming......he hasn't even been close!

Plus without any wins it'll be hard to find contract with super strong team next year.......I say no way he breaks it.

[bikingshearer]

Tiger has a better chance of catching Jack N. and we know how that's been going. Tho he'll likely break Sam Snead's record.

Cavendish is likely to break Sam Snead's record? :confused:


:p

[beeatnik]

Cavendish is likely to break Sam Snead's record? :confused:


:p

Equal odds for that or Merck's record.

[MattTuck]

Equal odds for that or Merck's record.

made me chuckle. :)

[cloudguy]

That's my take. what's yours?

Cavendish won't get the record and I'm glad. But Sagan will likely one day, which seems appropriate, given his free-lancing well-rounded style.

[oldpotatoe]

Something in me very much does not want Cavendish to catch Merck, much less pass him. I have nothing against Cavendish, and I have long been impressed with his ability to come out of seemingly nowhere to blast by everyone in a sprint.

I think Cav's ship has sailed...methinks retirement is close for the Manx-er.

[nooneline]

I think Cav's ship has sailed...methinks retirement is close for the Manx-er.

me too. he's not the kind of rider who can sidle back into a leadout man role or superdomestique. he's been struggling to get it together.

that said - he's certainly surprised me before. i really didn't expect him to win four stages two years ago. he could have another renaissance and grab a few more stage wins. just probably not another four.

[steelbikerider]

After seeing his (non)sprint today, I will be surprised if he gets a top 3 this tour.

[weisan]

I have no doubt that Cav still have a formidable sprint but when it comes to Le Tour, anything less than tip-top form is not going to get you anywhere and there are no such thing as luck or consolation prizes, not at this level.

Kittel... Degenkolb...they all know that. But that doesn't mean they stop trying.

[MattTuck]

After seeing his (non)sprint today, I will be surprised if he gets a top 3 this tour.

Thought the same thing when I saw that. He may get everything just right in one of these and cross the line first, but hard to see how it would be anything other than the stars lining up just right.

[redir]

Cav was well positioned today actually, very well positioned. That last turn is what cut him off. This guy knows how to win a stage and any fan of cycling knows that a sprint like that is as much a luck of the draw as it is a team effort. The winner of a TDF sprint stage finish like that is almost always under the 'stars being right'.... I think that is evident in watching the Dutch rider squeeze through today.

[enr1co]

Seems like the last couple of seasons he has trouble staying upright.

not just last couple... more like entire career.