another mechanical watch question

[jimcav]

Goal--less than 43 mm case, rotating bezel, Ti or lighter weight a plus. Several years ago, when i got a bonus, my wife got her deserved, better ring, and I got myself a nice watch (stupid in hindsight as i trade my aquatimer for it). Driving one day a screw in in in the band backed out, and off my wrist it went, hit the asphalt at 30mph. Luckily i found it, and the pin and blue loc-tited it, and it sent it back under warranty because the bezel no longer rotated well nor lined up at 12. After a lot of bitching, the bezel was finally fixed and after months it came back, but it only kept time short time after coming back--turns out there was internal damage too, which they ignored and of course they kept it long enough for the warranty to expire, and then wouldn't cover it. Fixing it was somewhat prohibitive, mainly I was pretty soured on the brand and putting any more money there.
Well, i've been without a watch since 2012 and didn't care except now i've slowly started running again, and am up to an hour on trails. I want a watch to track my time (mainly to avoid going much over a 10% increase per week on run length), and I have no interest in a watch that isn't mechanical. I am in a HOT (107 today) region and came across a Ball master diver II TMT, that has a mech temp gauge, which I thought is cool, and i like the look of it. I have $1200 from recent bike sale in paypal so was looking at staying under 2k total, but could be swayed to more if there is a significant reliability increase. My running is all on trails, and involve some pounding downhills (at least they beat the crap out of me). I don't want a chronograph complication, or even date unles for some reason that happens to be the most robust movement. Other watches i looked at were:
A) 1/2 the cost of the ball is the Squale 500 meter diver (blue face with orange hand--i'm a sucker for anything close to gulf oil colorway
B) similar cost to Ball at jomashop an Oris Carlos Coste edition diver
C) another TI Oris, the "regulateur Der Meisteraucher" but it is over 2k so hoping to find a 3rd alternate under 2k and then make a decision.
I tried to find a seiko I liked the look of, but didn't.
I like the older submariner "no date" but feel they are just way too much $
Similar feeling about a few omega planet ocean divers that my eye was very drawn too, but hard to plunk down 5k+ should i slip on a run and hit a rock (which are everywhere i run--same reason I buy my mtn bikes on CL or pinkbike).
Many thanks for the expert opinion of the watch guys and gals here

[hokoman]

I have one of these I use as my random casual watch and it would be hard to beat for value...

https://www.truefacet.com/omega-seamaster-2231-50-41mm-mens-watch.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqdqupPLv2wIVmKDsCh0m-QiwEAQYCyABEgIcwfD_BwE#email

[jr59]

I have one of these I use as my random casual watch and it would be hard to beat for value...

https://www.truefacet.com/omega-seamaster-2231-50-41mm-mens-watch.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqdqupPLv2wIVmKDsCh0m-QiwEAQYCyABEgIcwfD_BwE#email

That’s a nice watch. I’d look for that one or a used Tudor

[DrSpoke]

I'm rather new to the watch hobby so by no means anything close to expert. But I've read that mechanical watches are often not well suited to many sport activities especially where a lot of shock is involved. I don't run but I mountain bike a lot. I've a few nice mechanical watches but for sports, gym or biking mostly, I generally use quartz. I've got an analog Bertucci that is my go to for riding and I also have a couple of G-Shocks that I bought for that purpose but had tended to stay w/the old standby.

So at your budget a two watch solution could be possible. That is, a very high quality mechanical combined with an inexpensive quartz - say a G-Shock GW-5610. These have the added feature of a stopwatch, countdown timer, lap timer, etc. to say nothing of solar rechargeable battery and atomic clock sync. Another thought would be a nice mechanical combined with a high end sports smartwatch w/GPS - something designed for running - something like the Garmin Fenix 5 Plus among others.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/603267/pn/010-01988-06?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIn_OekPvv2wIVFavsCh3v2QvrEAAYA SAAEgIPmfD_BwE

Back to your question - have you looked at the Steinhart Ocean Titanium? Many of the Steinhart's are homage pieces but the Ti not so much though it has a bit of resemblance to the no date Sub though with a date a 6 o'clock.

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch/ocean-titanium-500-premium.html

BTW, I really like Squale as a brand and would love to have one - but would probably go with the 1521 in blue. I have two watches from Oris - both Sixty-Fives - the 40mm in black and the 42 mm in blue. Both are very nice. I probably won't be taking them mtn biking though :) And not just for shock resistance but I wouldn't want to crash while wearing one of them. So they're apre ride watches.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

[FlashUNC]

You situation and request -- aside from the bezel -- just screams Casio G-Shock.

[jimcav]

I believe the squale i selected was a 1521 with orange hand, blue dial/bezel.

I have not looked at Steinhart or the Oris 55, but already have 2 Oris on the list, so perhaps one will get bumped.


I do not plan to ride with the watch, only run

jim

[jimcav]

You situation and request -- aside from the bezel -- just screams Casio G-Shock.

have used g-shocks many times in real work navy diving, navy run-swim workouts. used it because it was issued with dive gear. I view a watch differently than time teller, I want a mechanical watch. I won't be riding with it as i could care less how long i ride--i ride until i run out of water.

[jimcav]

I have one of these I use as my random casual watch and it would be hard to beat for value...

https://www.truefacet.com/omega-seamaster-2231-50-41mm-mens-watch.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqdqupPLv2wIVmKDsCh0m-QiwEAQYCyABEgIcwfD_BwE#email

I do like it, but not really more in appearance than my others, but it is easily on the list. Thanks!

[dubrat]

Sinn EZM3

[yinzerniner]

You situation and request -- aside from the bezel -- just screams Casio G-Shock.

I second/third that opinion. The most robust movement will be one with minimal small moving parts, so a mechanical should be automatically disqualified.

If you're ok putting down 300 (crystal only) to 700 (crystal, bezel, case, movement) in case you damage it while exercising there are many options with widely-available ETA, Sellita, or Seiko movements. Something like the Oris and Squales you mentioned above, or something like a titanium Orient Mako. But if you must have a watch for strenuous and treacherous activity but aren't in the position of putting down the cake to fix it in case of damage then it makes zero sense to use it in that way in the first place. And saying you "MUST HAVE MECHANICAL" when it's not the most prudent choice is like using a fat bike for a road race because you NEED to have 3" wide rubber underneath you.

Either way good luck with the search, even though I think you'd be better served with something quartz or more disposable for your intended use.

[DrSpoke]

I believe the squale i selected was a 1521 with orange hand, blue dial/bezel.

I have not looked at Steinhart or the Oris 55, but already have 2 Oris on the list, so perhaps one will get bumped.


I do not plan to ride with the watch, only run

jim

You are correct re the Squale. For some reason I was thinking it was the 600m model which is nice too though a bit large for me. Both the sunburst and matte dials on the 50 Atmos are nice. I was originally drawn to the sunburst but the matte dial has a certain appeal to me - sort of understated. But I would probably end up with the polished case sunburst dial - beautiful watch. And it looks great w/a mesh bracelet too.

I say shock resistance as I would guess there is more shock running than riding though could be wrong on that. I think running would create regular, consistent small shocks. Riding would be smoother most of the times but the intermittent big hits could create some significant shocks.

I really like the Oris Aquis Date models and the special editions are especially nice. So I think you are on the right track. As you can tell from the Sixty-Fives I'm sort of drawn to the vintage inspired models. A newly introduced watch in that vein I also like is the Tudor Black Bay Fifty-Eight. But I see it's a bit over your budget and may be a bit on the small side for you.

[wallymann]

a couple low-cost mechanical divers i recently added to the quiver, both from boutique micro-brands and powered by seiko NH35 movements:

dan henry 1970:
http://brown-snout.com/horology/collection/_thumbs/danhenry_1970-40_diver.jpg

unimatic u-1d:
http://brown-snout.com/horology/collection/_thumbs/unimatic_u1-d_diver.jpg

[RFC]

I hear you that you want a mechanical watch. That's why, as someone who has gone through and survived the Swiss and German mechanical watch disease, I'm going to recommend a quartz watch. Not any quartz watch, but the Seiko Tuna. Lots of history. Designed as a 100% tool watch. Extremely efficient and robust quartz movement designed and used exclusively with this line. Lume is the best you are going to find. My watch tastes have changed. I now buy semi expensive quartz / solar and cheaper autos. The auto market has changed with the emergence of microbrands and the realization that high end Swiss watches are, generally, way overpriced for what you get.

Check out the history:

https://thespringbar.com/blogs/guides/the-seiko-tuna-collectors-guide

Here is my 300m.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1733/27585826697_40da1ef10e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/J2EzcF)IMG_5733 (https://flic.kr/p/J2EzcF) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150689726@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4726/25312450998_9b4c874809_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EyLVNW)IMG_5197 (https://flic.kr/p/EyLVNW) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150689726@N06/), on Flickr

For autos / mechanicals I would suggest:

1) Seiko SKX007. Again, huge real dive history. Bulletproof and about as basic as you can get. When I started diving, divers wore watches and real divers wore Seikos and Citizens. Nobody wore Rolex Submariners. Well, Jacques Cousteau and his crew wore Rolex, but Rolex was a sponsor.

2) Seiko Turtle. This is a modern update of another classic Seiko dive watch, the 6309. I actually used a 6309 when I started diving. The modern version is updated with a windable and hackable movement.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4718/38979967084_a6746bcfe0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22owwb1)IMG_5276 (https://flic.kr/p/22owwb1) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150689726@N06/), on Flickr

If you don't care about brand recognition, the Deep Blue Nato Diver is an incredible deal. Basically an updated SKX with windable and hackable Seiko movement, sapphire crystal and 300m WR. Presently on sale at Deep Blue for $149 with DEEP coupon. I have the black and the orange. Many variations available.

https://www.deepbluewatches.com/natodiver.html

You are on a slippery slope. Have fun sliding down.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1757/27952969507_3eebce4b64_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JA7gY8)IMG_5745 (https://flic.kr/p/JA7gY8) by Robert Copple (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150689726@N06/), on Flickr

[RFC]

a couple low-cost mechanical divers i recently added to the quiver, both from boutique micro-brands and powered by seiko NH35 movements:

dan henry 1970:
http://brown-snout.com/horology/collection/_thumbs/danhenry_1970-40_diver.jpg

unimatic u-1d:
http://brown-snout.com/horology/collection/_thumbs/unimatic_u1-d_diver.jpg

I've been avoiding the Dan Henry. :rolleyes:

[buddybikes]

Question for the watch geeks here... Are dress mechanicals totally out of favor?


1697962568

[DRZRM]

It does not have a spinning bezel, but otherwise I'd totally recommend an IWC GST in Ti. They have been out of production for ages, and I don't know if you could find one at the price point you are looking as I don't really follow what becomes "collectable" but I paid well below that for mine some time ago. Fairly light, good looking, not too big, very durable, maybe IWC's last tool watch. May be worth a look around if you can live without that complication. The one on the right...obviously.

[RFC]

It does not have a spinning bezel, but otherwise I'd totally recommend an IWC GST in Ti. They have been out of production for ages, and I don't know if you could find one at the price point you are looking as I don't really follow what becomes "collectable" but I paid well below that for mine some time ago. Fairly light, good looking, not too big, very durable, maybe IWC's last tool watch. May be worth a look around if you can live without that complication. The one on the right...obviously.

Both beautiful watches! If I were to go back to German / Swiss watches, the Sinn line would be at the top of the list. I owned several. Very tool oriented without the brand BS.

[jimcav]

It does not have a spinning bezel, but otherwise I'd totally recommend an IWC GST in Ti. They have been out of production for ages, and I don't know if you could find one at the price point you are looking as I don't really follow what becomes "collectable" but I paid well below that for mine some time ago. Fairly light, good looking, not too big, very durable, maybe IWC's last tool watch. May be worth a look around if you can live without that complication. The one on the right...obviously.

regret getting rid of it. I ran and rode with it no issues for several years!
thx

[jimcav]

a couple low-cost mechanical divers i recently added to the quiver, both from boutique micro-brands and powered by seiko NH35 movements:

dan henry 1970:
http://brown-snout.com/horology/collection/_thumbs/danhenry_1970-40_diver.jpg

unimatic u-1d:
http://brown-snout.com/horology/collection/_thumbs/unimatic_u1-d_diver.jpg

I dig orange so prefer the dan henry. I just wanted one more watch to consider, but thank you all, it is fun to look at more

[jimcav]

Sinn EZM3

except for the 150 pieces limited edition, which i i love but it is 3k, so above my budget

[DRZRM]

RFC, yeah, I'm with you. I love their older stuff, that 142 and I love the 956 Klassik, but when they came out with the GIANT, thick bezeled EZM, U1, U2, T1, T2 all of those monsters they nearly killed the brand as far as I was concerned. That said, they still have a handful of watches that are fairly good deals in the modern mechanical watch pool, the 556 on a strap is just over a grand new, I've seen used ones go for half that.

I don't really pay attention to the new designs much, and as the world turns towards Apple Watches, it seems like nice mechanicals have gotten so much more expensive than they were twenty years ago. I stopped buying watches when I started having kids. I wish I'd picked up an IWC Portuguese in the black with white Panda dial (3714) when I was doing that sort of thing, but I'm totally out now.

[Ken Robb]

What do you guys pay to service mechanical watches?

[RFC]

RFC, yeah, I'm with you. I love their older stuff, that 142 and I love the 956 Klassik, but when they came out with the GIANT, thick bezeled EZM, U1, U2, T1, T2 all of those monsters they nearly killed the brand as far as I was concerned. That said, they still have a handful of watches that are fairly good deals in the modern mechanical watch pool, the 556 on a strap is just over a grand new, I've seen used ones go for half that.

I don't really pay attention to the new designs much, and as the world turns towards Apple Watches, it seems like nice mechanicals have gotten so much more expensive than they were twenty years ago. I stopped buying watches when I started having kids. I wish I'd picked up an IWC Portuguese in the black with white Panda dial (3714) when I was doing that sort of thing, but I'm totally out now.

LOL! Kids will do that to you, but kids are lots better than watches!

[jimcav]

I am getting a mechanical, simply because i like it having a pure mechanical mechanism. You might as well tell me to just get an armband for my cellphone--it will work but it isn't what i am asking about. I had a Ti IWC aquatimer and ran and rode with it daily for nearly 4 year before stupidly trading it on the watch that fell off my wrist. If i had the budget, i'd get that watch again.

[DRZRM]

LOL! Kids will do that to you, but kids are lots better than watches!

Well, you haven't met my kids :cool:

Ken Robb, RGM was in the neighborhood of $500 for a chrono last time I sent something in. Omega just stopped sending parts to non official Omega service centers, so I have my dad's watch that will need to go to Omega service, which is a bit more, and the IWC will likely be even worse. I go longer than the 5 years they recommend for service as long as they are keeping time, 7-10 years on average.

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[jimcav]

I've been avoiding the Dan Henry. :rolleyes:

by the unimatic U1-DL!

[choke]

Back to your question - have you looked at the Steinhart Ocean Titanium? Many of the Steinhart's are homage pieces but the Ti not so much though it has a bit of resemblance to the no date Sub though with a date a 6 o'clock.+1 It fits your requirements and at 500 EUR is a bargain IMO. I own a couple of Steinharts and think that they are a great value.

I really don't get all the quartz recommendations.....it's not like running is tough on a mechanical watch. I pretty much only wear mechanicals even when riding and they've all survived.

[jimcav]

I am in agreement with the G-Shock/quartz recommendations, for the actual uses you describe.
G-Shocks are so great, they last forever, cost nothing, and so pay for more bicycle parts....

That said, given your aesthetic/movement/size/budget preferences only, I would recommend a Damasko DSub2 (http://www.damasko-watches.com/us/models/damasko-diving-watch/dsub/dsub2)

ETA 2824-2 self-winding mechanical movement
Submarine steel, bead-blasted, nickel-free case
Diameter: 43.00mm
Diameter rotating bezel: 44.20mm
Overall height: 12.60mm
Lug width: 22.00mm
Weight without strap: 102g
US $1644.00

I have two Damasko watches. The quality is very good; the cases are superb.

http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r654/traghetter/Damasko%20DSub2_01_zpspvhye9rp.jpg (http://s1360.photobucket.com/user/traghetter/media/Damasko%20DSub2_01_zpspvhye9rp.jpg.html)

http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r654/traghetter/Damasko%20DSub2_02_zpsbmajmdoc.jpg (http://s1360.photobucket.com/user/traghetter/media/Damasko%20DSub2_02_zpsbmajmdoc.jpg.html)

http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r654/traghetter/Damasko%20DSub2_03_zpspmrnhm9m.jpg (http://s1360.photobucket.com/user/traghetter/media/Damasko%20DSub2_03_zpspmrnhm9m.jpg.html)
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any opinion on that eta movement versus the ball, oris movement (which the SW-220 i think is from swatch?), or the sekio. I had amazing experience with my old IWC aquatimer--kept great time no mater what i did--i ran, swam, rode with it for several years

[FlashUNC]

I really don't get all the quartz recommendations.....it's not like running is tough on a mechanical watch. I pretty much only wear mechanicals even when riding and they've all survived.

Well, the OP mentioned concerns about reliability, robustness, previous examples of bad experiences breaking mechanical watches, and concerns about an active lifestyle leading to breaking a more expensive timepiece.

It's literally what G-Shocks were designed to address: 10 year battery life, 10 bar water resistance, and surviving a 10 meter fall onto concrete. It's a real landmark in watchmaking history, even if it is "just a quartz."

The obvious mechanical recommendation is the Seiko SKX007 or 173, but the OP mentioned no interest in Seikos.

[choke]

any opinion on that eta movement versus the ball, oris movement (which the SW-220 i think is from swatch?), or the sekio. I had amazing experience with my old IWC aquatimer--kept great time no mater what i did--i ran, swam, rode with it for several yearsETA movements, and particularly the 2824, are more or less the standard; they have been used in all kinds of watches over the years from inexpensive to very expensive (with modifications or modules attached). Your old IWC used an ETA movement.

The SW-220 is an ETA 2836 clone.

The Seiko movements are pretty good though not as refined as the ETA....at least in the lower end movement like the NH35 or 7S26. Seiko's upper end movements are as good as anything that comes from Switzerland.

[colbyh]

Seems like with those requirements a diver (or a few of the modern pilot hybrids) would be the only matches. Not much is going to beat the value of a Seiko Prospex but that Ball is beautiful.

If you can do without the bezel, it's worth looking into a chronograph. Speedmasters can be found around the 2K range and depending on the strap can be super light wearing. Or the Hamilton Intra-matic 68 which is gorgeous and...panda.

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[pjm]

Check out Stowa.

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[dubrat]

except for the 150 pieces limited edition, which i i love but it is 3k, so above my budget

EZM3 is a standard model sells for around $2000

http://www.watchbuys.com/store/pc/Sinn-EZM-3-Diver-s-on-Bracelet-p308.htm

[jimcav]

Check out Stowa.

the current ones not as much as some of the other recommendations here

[jimcav]

EZM3 is a standard model sells for around $2000

http://www.watchbuys.com/store/pc/Sinn-EZM-3-Diver-s-on-Bracelet-p308.htm

as i look at suggestions i find i like the less is more approach on the face. if Sinn had a 556 no-date style with marked rotating bezel that would be ideal. I saw the Sinn T1 B Blue Dial Titanium EZM 14 which is close, but also 3300. I don't love the U1 or U2 dial--looks great if i was actually still diving, but not for me. I do like the U212 though. I may hit local stores like tourneau to see if they have any of thee to see how they feel on my wrist.

[jimcav]

never got that from my past watch purchases (albeit that is an 'n' of 3)

One problem is, ironically, that people often hand-wind mechanical watches very aggressively, really grinding the crown over and over, and the gears/pinions aren't designed for that, especially if done every other day. Set, wind a couple of gentle turns to get things moving, close, and then wear/shake is much better, much easier on the movement life.

.[/COLOR]

[wallymann]

any opinion on that eta movement versus the ball, oris movement (which the SW-220 i think is from swatch?), or the sekio.

sellita 220 is an ETA 2824 copy, as in direct parts interchangeable. patent protection ran out on the ETA design. so apples-to-apples.

seiko mechanicals are bulletproof. now that they introduced the 4R/NH movements that wind/hack, they're easy to live with and keep in a rotation compared to the 7S predecessor. in my experience they're as good as, if not better, than the equivalent ETA/Sellita movement.

[William]

Lots of info here if you are into podcasts.


Watch and Listen podcasts...
"Watch and Listen is a weekly podcast about watches, watchmaking, and the people that make the industry tick. Hosts Matt Farah, of The Smoking Tire ,and Cameron Weiss, watchmaker and the CEO of the Weiss Watch Company, Los Angeles, CA, will take you through the history of clocks and watchmaking, show what makes some of the most iconic watches just that, and discuss watch buying, maintaining, investing, and collecting at all price points."

http://shoutengine.com/WatchAndListen/






William

[jghall]

Already have a pretty good list going Jim. I'll throw a few more your way that are maybe lesser known. MKII, Benarus, Alpina, Certina, H2O/Orca. Sure I'm forgetting some too.

The Certina ticks all the boxes; size, titanium, bezel, etc. Decently priced too

Good luck in your search.

[jimcav]

will prob do it again via youtube later as i had no video for the watches discussed
Lots of info here if you are into podcasts.


Watch and Listen podcasts...
"Watch and Listen is a weekly podcast about watches, watchmaking, and the people that make the industry tick. Hosts Matt Farah, of The Smoking Tire ,and Cameron Weiss, watchmaker and the CEO of the Weiss Watch Company, Los Angeles, CA, will take you through the history of clocks and watchmaking, show what makes some of the most iconic watches just that, and discuss watch buying, maintaining, investing, and collecting at all price points."

http://shoutengine.com/WatchAndListen/






William

[jimcav]

Already have a pretty good list going Jim. I'll throw a few more your way that are maybe lesser known. MKII, Benarus, Alpina, Certina, H2O/Orca. Sure I'm forgetting some too.

The Certina ticks all the boxes; size, titanium, bezel, etc. Decently priced too

Good luck in your search.

I'm narrowing in on a simple design, no date, ala omega speedmaster 300 or older rolex submariner no date, but at better pricepoint (or saving for awhile for one of these). as someone said, very slippery slope. like buying lightweights when ambrosio work as well

[yinzerniner]

I'm narrowing in on a simple design, no date, ala omega speedmaster 300 or older rolex submariner no date, but at better pricepoint (or saving for awhile for one of these). as someone said, very slippery slope. like buying lightweights when ambrosio work as well

Problem is that most modern "time only" movements have defaulted to include a date complication, so finding a non-date piece is pretty tough.

I still think you're better off forgoing a mechanical piece for high-intensity use, but if you must then a microbrand with a good ETA, Sellita or Seiko movement is the way to go, below $1000 since you're so worried about the price of damaging it.

I personally really like the EZA one that launched a little bit ago. Hard to find online, but they're priced very competitively and I think the case and dial work are above their price point.

http://eza-watches.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/EZA-Airfighter.010-webshop.jpg
http://eza-watches.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/EZA.BLACK_.0022.jpg

[DrSpoke]

I'll throw one more for you to consider - The Halios Seaforth. They are on Generation III which was pre-order only. I've ordered the Abyss Blue w/Sapphire Diver bezel and NoDate. That said, the Gen I and II are available in the used market. The Gen I was a no date model and used a Miyota movement. The Gen II was a date only model and used an ETA movement. The Gen III will have an ETA movement w/either date or no date. The Gen III is expected to ship in August and there may be some models available due to cancelled orders. Also, it's available in a variety of dial colors and bezel styles.

https://halioswatches.com/
https://www.watchrecon.com/?brand=halios
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f74/halios-seaforth-3475145.html

[jimcav]

I'll throw one more for you to consider - The Halios Seaforth. They are on Generation III and were pre-order only. I've ordered the Abyss Blue w/Sapphire Diver bezel and NoDate. That said, the Gen I and II are available in the used market. The Gen I was a no date model and used a Miyota movement. The Gen II used an ETA movement w/date. The Gen III will have an ETA movement w/either date or no date. The Gen III is expected to ship in August and there may be some models available due to cancelled orders. Also, it's available in a variety of colors and bezel styles.

https://halioswatches.com/
https://www.watchrecon.com/?brand=halios
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f74/halios-seaforth-3475145.html
thank you--lots of great choices i was completely unaware of before--really appreciate it. also are most major online gray markets like chrono24, joma, crown and caliber safe to buy ( it won't be fake--i assume not really an issue with the smaller brands like Halios, but if i wanted to save up and get something nicer?)

[jimcav]

below $1000 since you're so worried about the price of damaging it.

I personally really like the EZA one that launched a little bit ago. Hard to find o]

i should clarify the price point wasn't so much about worry of damage, but more fiscal responsibility. all relative of course, but i have bike-sale cash in paypal so started with that amount plus a bit extra. I could sell another bike--heck i have 2 road frames just getting dusty in the garage that could double to triple my budget, but if i start thinking about what i 'could' sell down the road to justify i purchase i will end up with a daytona

[DrSpoke]

thank you--lots of great choices i was completely unaware of before--really appreciate it. also are most major online gray markets like chrono24, joma, crown and caliber safe to buy ( it won't be fake--i assume not really an issue with the smaller brands like Halios, but if i wanted to save up and get something nicer?)

I would say most gray market vendors are ok though it doesn't hurt to check around. You do, of course, have to weigh the pros and cons of buying w/o manufacturer's warranty among other things. I've bought a couple of watches from private parties on WatchUSeek with good results.

A Facebook group I like is The Urban Gentry Watch Club. Lot's of expertise there. If you post the same question there you'll probably get a bunch of answers within minutes. He also has a YouTube channel that I like for reviews and buying advice.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1503241666636531/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0ulDfOIUVoZAhHPuCTiawg

[DRZRM]

That is really nice! Seems to check all of Jim's boxes. Ballpark on price?

I'll throw one more for you to consider - The Halios Seaforth. They are on Generation III which was pre-order only. I've ordered the Abyss Blue w/Sapphire Diver bezel and NoDate. That said, the Gen I and II are available in the used market. The Gen I was a no date model and used a Miyota movement. The Gen II was a date only model and used an ETA movement. The Gen III will have an ETA movement w/either date or no date. The Gen III is expected to ship in August and there may be some models available due to cancelled orders. Also, it's available in a variety of dial colors and bezel styles.

https://halioswatches.com/
https://www.watchrecon.com/?brand=halios
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f74/halios-seaforth-3475145.html

[DrSpoke]

That is really nice! Seems to check all of Jim's boxes. Ballpark on price?

These seem to be holding their value rather well. The Gen III release was a pre-order basis, in early March and now closed, at about $700. Prior to this release, the Gen I & IIs were often above $1k and sometimes way above. These were sold on a first come, first serve basis and sold out in minutes if not seconds. Gen III was a big release however so the used market has come down and seems to have stabilized in the $700 - $900 range.

[djg]

thank you--lots of great choices i was completely unaware of before--really appreciate it. also are most major online gray markets like chrono24, joma, crown and caliber safe to buy ( it won't be fake--i assume not really an issue with the smaller brands like Halios, but if i wanted to save up and get something nicer?)

Somebody recommended Jomashop to me once upon a time -- I've only purchased one watch from them -- a Fortis that I bought a couple of years ago. They sent me the real thing, with the box, papers, and plastic covering the back and crystal. Prompt shipping, all fine -- that's just one purchase, but I wouldn't worry about buying something from them again.