Pushing Cipo

[gt6267a]

Not sure if any of you read the bicycling forums. There is a thread over there about pushing Mario C. at the TdG which I am enjoying. A few quotes:

I was putzing around, shooting a USPS straggler, when I looked up, and not 4 feet away was Super Mario! I shouted "Mario!", and forgot all about the camera. He replied "Hi...you" in heavily accented english, and then said, "Push!". So I pushed for six or seven paces. I got a pic of him as I broke off, and then a pick of the 3 guys pushing him higher up. It was an awesome day.

wonder if Cipo had to turn the pedals at all on Brasstown Bald. I was down a little further about 2.5k from the finish @a really step section and Cipo was pushed by guys through the whole section. Makes you wonder if this is how things work in Europe on those tough climbs.

I have an incredible picture of Cipo being pushed up the hill. He is almost sitting straight up with a big smile on his face.

etc. etc. one of the guys posted a photo which i'll put up here once i crop it down to size.

not sure if this is how cipo makes it through the giro, but it makes me laugh.

-k

[gt6267a]

[Kevan]

you're not alone!

[Keith A]

Thanks for sharing -- that was pretty good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't pushing a rider up a hill a fineable offense?

BTW, do you happen to have the link to the discussion of Cippolini being pushed up the hills?

[gt6267a]

http://forums.bicycling.com/bic/thread.jsp?forum=9&thread=80001&start=0&msRange=15

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . it is a fineable offense either in money or time added, at least in Europe as far as I know. But was this race run under UCI auspices? If not, then this may not be against the rules--though it should be!

Either way, Cipo seems to be becoming pretty much of a clown, at least to me. Cancelling out of spring classics, not showing up for the podium presentation on a TdG stage, and now this.

I appreciate his natural talent, but I begin to grow tired off the antics and really wonder about him. This year's tour would be a great chance for him to actually finish the race--even without any stage wins--and prove he can do it, then retire on a high note. But if he keeps up stuff like this and then abandons the tour on the first hill--again--then he's gonna be looking awfully stupid.

BBDave

[Roy E. Munson]

He was beaten straight up by Gord Fraser, a domestic sprinter who's no spring chicken either. I agree with BBD, time for Cipo to hang em up before he becomes a total clown show.

[Keith A]

Hey BBDave,

Edit: Removed my incorrect assumption.

BTW, from accounts that I read, Cippo was accommodating to the autograph seekers.

[oracle]

the reason that mario did not show is because he had no idea that he placed, not because he was in his team van breaking things as most people surmised.

"That is a bit of a slap in the face, and then he wanted us Americans to then push him up the hill?"

no need to make ignorant and borderline xenophobic statements without having more than a snippet of information.

oracle

[shinomaster]

met Mario. He was at the same hotel and said he was super friendly and they had a conversation in broken english and Spanish. When my brother saw him ride up the Brass stage he said he looked good, much better than a lot of riders, and he said hi to my bro as he went by.

Henk Vogels told my bro that "that was the most hard F*&^&*%^ hill he has ever climbed"

[Russ]

I appreciate his natural talent, but I begin to grow tired off the antics and really wonder about him. This year's tour would be a great chance for him to actually finish the race--even without any stage wins--and prove he can do it, then retire on a high note. But if he keeps up stuff like this and then abandons the tour on the first hill--again--then he's gonna be looking awfully stupid.

I am with BBD on this one. Some of these old riders are becoming too much of what Entertainers do: A lot of show and no results (ok, I know Cippo is no climber, so I am generalizing). I know Cipo did his things in the past, but IMO, he is a bike racer first, not an entertainer. If he can no longer compete, he should retire.... This whole thing reminds me of Muhammad Ali in his last days on the ring. He just wasn't the same. He started to fight Thai Kick Boxers and doing clown-like stuff, c'mom!

[PaulE]

according to VeloNews, he didn't realize he was third overall and felt really bad.

http://www.velonews.com/race/dom/articles/5957.1.html (http://)

Since he's being fined in Swiss Francs, it must be a UCI race. Can't defend the pushes. It seems that every year in the TdF, some guys get time added or fined for getting pushed, although from what I've read in the past, I didn't get the impression that anyone got pushed all the way up the climbs.

[Keith A]

Calm down Oracle, you're just to fast. I went back to edit my post to add in a smilely as I realized that my statement didn't reflect my intention.

I did some searching -- as I was curious about him missing out on the podium presentation. He was indeed there for his stage win and it was his third place finish that we was not present.

[oracle]

most people who disparage cipollini's charactar on or off the bike tend to be fans who have never raced a bike or ridden one faster than 20 mph. most of the pros that i know have a tremendous degree of respect for cipollini, as well as his tireless promotion of the sport at the races he attends. he is a fine human being as well as the most dominant sprinter of at least his generation.

oracle

[shinomaster]

that is why I'm a member of the Mario Cipollini Fan club.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I agree with your statements about his friendliness and accessibility to fans and his dominance as a sprinter.

I just can't get over the uncomfortable feeling that for all his obvious ego and self-promotion, he just often does not seem to have a clue about how to really handle public relations. He seems to be a master of the grand gesture, but has no idea of how the little things in public places that lots of people, i.e., mass media, end up seeing can count against him.

He's mercurial and entertaining and friendly, but just not always real professional in his approach to public relations. Many other sports stars and other public figures have hired PR consultants for these same reasons, and I fee like if he has one, they are just not doing a really good job.

Then again, he may honestly not care about how he is seen, which is in itself somewhat refreshing.

BBDave

[Kevan]

always a character.

I'm just glad he's giving his fans there what they want. People have always belly ached about his talents. They just can't come to gripes that he's not wired like most folk.

I say, "Good for him!"

It's better he fades this way than how Pantani went.

[Madship]

The tour was rated at as a UCI 2.3. What exactly that means I am not sure. I believe the 2 is a stage race and the 3 is the difficulty. From the descriptions the riders gave, it sounds like it shoulc have been a 2HC.

I enjoy Cipo and think he is good for the sport. I've never seen a negative rumor about him. His antics may draw a bit of attention to him instead of his team, but for people used to football and basketball players his antics are mild. I'd love to see him finish the tour. hecan obviously do as he has completed the Giro on more than one occasion and I believe the veulta as well.

[shinomaster]

I dont think he gives a rats ass..He is a superstar and knows it. MAybe if he wasn't such a joker he would have been invited to the Tour again sooner, but alas...He missed out..

[oracle]

the worst part for those poor guys on that climb is that they had to finish with their helmets on in 97 degree heat. the uscf rules trumped the uci rules in this case.

oracle

[Elefantino]

My wife would have forgiven him the podium no show if she had been the one pushing him up the hill. After years of watching him on TV, I think she'd have loved to have shoved him in the arse. :no:

Mike

[Roy E. Munson]

Maybe he would have loved to shove her in the arse!! :butt:

Sorry, you left it out there and I couldn't resist :D

[oracle]

i bit my tounge - erm..fingers?

oracle

[Elefantino]

Maybe he would have loved to shove her in the arse!! :butt:

Sorry, you left it out there and I couldn't resist :D

Holy crud! Talk about throwing you a softball. :crap:

Actually, wife chuckled. :confused:

[Speedi Pig]

Granted, it was the Tour de Georgia, but it was not the Tour de Georgia in July. High temps in Atlanta over the weekend were in the mid 80's and would have been considerably cooler (but still not cool) at 4,700' atop Brasstown Bald.

I have two complaints with the UCI's helmet rule:

(1) They do make the riders harder to recognize (but that's a price I'm willing to pay for safety).

(2) That riders are allowed to remove their helmets on finishing climbs. Remember that Kivilev's crash that finally pushed this rule through was a low speed crash beginning a climb.

As far as heat, I ran competitively for 20 years before I started cycling, and with the experience of logging 90+ miles a week through Atlanta summers (try a 10 to 12 miler at 5:00 in the afternoon when it's 95 in the shade sometime), I'd have to say that cyclists don't know all that much about heat (but they probably know A LOT more about competition and strategy). Cycling helmets are so light, and well ventilated now that I really don't see how anyone can complain.

Sorry for the rant, I just don't see the problem.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . because it CAN be--I DO agree that the pros complain waaay too much about this rule. My helmets are not the zoomiest and lightest, but stick a do-rag on and go. You’d think from the way they complain that they were being forced to wear tourniquets around their necks.

BBDave

[Ray]

Check this out, from the Tour of Georgia, I presume:

http://www.thetalentfarm.com/Hogpen%20Cippo.rm

He deserved a push after this little act of PR.

-Ray

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . But not TOO special--I have women wanting me to do that all the time while I’m out riding! :rolleyes:

(sound of nose growing!)

BBDave

[Kevin]

Every time I stop to kiss women I get slapped.

Kevin

[Scott]

We got a chance to shake Cipo's hand and get autographs at the end of stage 5. He is a great ambassador for the sport. I know he's past his prime and say what you will, but he still hung around for quite a while to greet the fans, sign and talk. That's more than I can say for most of the "famous" riders. And he's not out in the papers for beating someone up or worse. When I compare him to the whinny little brats in the NBA, MLB, NFL I can forgive that he's a bit long in the tooth.

My kids also got to shake Lance's hand and get his autograph as well. They squeezed in behind a security gate and walked right up to him. They talked with him for 3 or 4 minutes until a security guard walked up and said, "How did you get in here, scram!"... which they did. When I asked my 9 year old how he got in he added, "it was a risk but I figured they wouldn't put a 9 year old in jail."

[jerk]

wow, your panties are all in a bunch because mario was getting pushed up a cat 1 climb? who cares? the jerk thinks you should know that this is commonplace throughout all the major stage races....riders not in contention (and some riders in contention) will get pushed up hills by the tifosi....no big deal and the comisars will ALWAYS overlook it if the rider is far back and not in the main group....fact of the matter is on the day mario was getting pushed his group was 20minutes down and laughing and fooling around through the whole stage......by the way, the jerk guarantees that mario cipolini is a better pure climber than anyone who posts on this board. the other mountain days cipolini was working hard and finished in the main group.
he is not washed up and gord frasier is still one of the fastest crit sprinters around....cipo's lead up was a little wanting and the pace wasn't really high enough for a vintage lion king jump.

jerk (who has been pushed up many a climb in competition.)

[gt6267a]

Maybe I am of a different mind than most, but I don’t have a problem with Cipo getting pushed. I just read the jerks post, so it looks like I am not alone.

If he were competing for the stage or the GC than it would be a problem and a serious one, but he’s just climbing the hill hoping not to die while finishing the stage. Maybe saving his legs for sprint on another day...

I say give him a glass of wine, a bowl of pasta, and a helping hand up every climb.

-k

[Russ]

....by the way, the jerk guarantees that mario cipolini is a better pure climber than anyone who posts on this board.

Sometimes it seems that some people's word is the final word.... I'd just like to see how great a climber Cippo will be when he is 45 or 50 years old! Then, I would take such an assumption....

Gee, why can't I stop thinking about Davis Phinney?

[shinomaster]

Mario could clean all our clocks..That mountain was harder than most..
I bet cipo didn't ask for the push or need it..But he was happy to have it. What is he supposed to do fight the guy? My bro said he rode up it faster than half of the guys..

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . it’s all relative. I tend to view things--as most people do, I believe--through the frame of my own experiences and feelings. I personally would view it as a matter of pride to get up that climb myself, without help. And I have learned through experience that I would rather be remembered with a bit of humor and a LOT of respect than the other way around.

Of course, I have never raced the Tour de Georgia or any of the races the Jerk has participated in Europe, so perhaps I should stand corrected JUST on the pushing. And Jerk, my panties were NOT “all in a bunch” about this. I never wear panties when I ride--but my chamois WAS pretty well wadded up! ;)

That being said, Mario IS a fearsome sprinter. :rolleyes:

BBDave

[Russell]

This is probably his last year (at least it should be). I figured that was the reason his team was invited to the Tour.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I hope he dips into his reservoir of class and takes advantage of this opportunity to go out on a high note. Based purely on accomplishments, his team really does not deserve to be there.

Go Cipo! :p

BBDave

[Kevan]

Ray, thanks for the clip, that scene was wonderful. I gotta say...us cycling fans are nuts when we get great enjoyment seeing our SO's getting hugged and kissed by machos like Cipo.

All....very funny.

[saab2000]

... about the climbing ability of these riders. The media portrays them as helpless on the hills but they are only helpless against real climbers.

In the same way, the climbers are awesome time triallists, just not against mega time trial riders like Lance or Jan Ullrich.

Even the so-called non-time triallists in the Tour could probably ride a 51 minute 40 km time trial.

Have no illusions, folks, these guys whose names we all recognise have few weaknesses. It is all relative. Cipollini would clean the clocks of most club ride "climbers".

[oracle]

speedy pig-

it certainly was that hot on brasstown on saturday, the race radio that i was listening to reported 95 degrees, and my own thermometer read 97 degrees. remember that cool air is denser and heavier, and if inversion conditions exist, then it can be much much cooler down below.

et al-

on the steepest pitch, mario did look better than much of the field who looked like the stragglers in the triplets of belleville. he waved, smiled, rode no-handed, blew kisses to the crowd, and dieseled up. sure he got pushed. BFD. there were far less pushes given on that climb than on any other steep europen climb; most of the spectators were too ignorant of bike racing to know what to do, and when they saw someone getting pushed they reacted in disgust "hey that's cheating- that's not fair! he should get thrown out of the race!" to cite just one quote that i filed away.

[Ray]

Ray, thanks for the clip, that scene was wonderful. I gotta say...us cycling fans are nuts when we get great enjoyment seeing our SO's getting hugged and kissed by machos like Cipo.

All....very funny.

The cameraman was so enthusiastic, I was kind of afraid of what he might offer up NEXT. Fortunately, Cipo rode off.

His wife didn't seem to mind either, so I guess it was good for all concerned!

-Ray

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . he would let ME make out with his wife, too? :rolleyes:

BBDave

[J.M. White]

Mario wasn't the only one who received a helping hand. Giovanni Lombardi grunted "Push me, push me" at the hairpin turn some 400 meters from the summit where I was standing, so I obliged. What a hoot! That, along with spending the day at Woody Gap with BullieDawg during Stage 5 was a highlight of the trip. I agree with the posters who noted that Mario would have made it up the mountain without any help. He was definitely on cruise control, being 18 minutes down on the stage and no threat on GC.

One observation: The riders for the American domestic teams really enjoyed the atmosphere on Brasstown Bald. You could see a few actually smile in response to the cheers (more actually grimaced) and a few even increased their cadence. The European team riders were less enthusiastic--looked like the heat and the murderous gradients got to them.

[LegendRider]

I was on the steepest section of Brasstown Bald last Saturday. The climb is rated HC while the previous one, Hog Pen Gap, is a Category 1. I've ridden Alpe d'Huez, Mt. Ventoux, Luz Ardiden and some other commonly used in the Tour and Brasstown is considerably steeper. "The wall" is a section of 20% plus about 1.5 miles from the top.

My friends and I watched from "the wall" and had a GREAT time. We didn't touch any of the leaders, but once the guys in the back came through we were pushing like crazy. I pushed Lombardi, Durand and a few others for fairly long stretches. They were suffering like dogs. Most rode 23s other than Horner and Armstrong. Apparently most of the riders - Euro and domestic - seriously underestimated the climb. Julich was in the lead group and weaving back and forth!!! It was total carnage... The most fun I've had in a long time.