Kelly Cycles for sale.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

http://www.kellybike.com/contact-us/investor-relations/.

[nicrump]

exactly 1 year ago the same "investor relations" page was asking for investments to grow.

[v531xc]

wow, i guess not totally unexpected given the state of the industry and operational costs for a low production manufacturing business.

Really interesting to see that metric about SEO shared. Most interesting thing to me is that its actually known! Many small business owners don't even get that far with their own brand.

Those frames always seemed pretty cool to me, and the Take-offs are a great example of a solution to a problem that the bigger names in the industry technically solved while leaving customers with different preferences, and functioning equipment, behind. Honestly, today, that product seems like it could be easily at home in the Paul Comp catalog, or reimagined by one of the constructeur-inspired randoneuse builders.

[alembical]

My Kelly Knobby-x Single Speed cross bike is one of two of my bikes that I have had for greater than 15 years and have no plans to get rid of (other is Serotta CSi). Actually did a cyclocross race with it again this year.

[echelon_john]

What a silly ad. Is he claiming that simply the name “Kelly” has value when combined with “Cycles” because of claimed organic search results!?

I think his brand as it’s been expressed through the years is cool, but there’s no “there” there without an actual revenue stream, which he doesn’t mention...c

[William]

Given the few details mentioned above I will entertain any reasonable offer so long as it has nothing to do with goats, chickens or chicken manure. That said, it all depends on the deal.



Funny but also sad. Hopefully someone will be able to give it a go...





William

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[Spaghetti Legs]

I get the impression that he is selling the trademark and domain name; not necessarily brick and mortar business.

[buddybikes]

Sorry - who the heck is Kelly "world famous Kelly® bicycle brand"

I know I am somewhat disconnected with day to day bike stuff now that I am happy with my firefly and geekhouse, but ?????

[parris]

I've never heard of them... Who are they?

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[CMiller]

I think a basic online business class, copy editor, ____, is needed in this industry. I'm reminded of the Bruce Gordon debate.

That being said, honestly, the best of luck to him. Every Kelly I've seen has been beautiful.

[Blown Reek]

I know I am somewhat disconnected with day to day bike stuff now that I am happy with my firefly and geekhouse, but ?????

This guy was welding up bikes before Firefly and Geekhouse and I.F. He's from the days of Steelman and Yamaguchi.

http://media1.tenor.com/images/6fc9a72e4136209d31165b6e5146eaa6/tenor.gif?itemid=5375536

[John H.]

Top steel builder?
The word on the street in the 90's was that all of his frames were crooked.
Like jig was off- rendering them all a bit off.
He always denied it-

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[pbarry]

Never heard that about his bikes. I was "on the street" in Somerville during those years, building at FC and Merlin, with lots of Bay Area bike builder and shop owner contacts then. Never heard a bad word spoken about CK.

[GonaSovereign]

Really interesting to see that metric about SEO shared. Most interesting thing to me is that its actually known! Many small business owners don't even get that far with their own brand.


I agree, but but in this case it's completely disingenuous. The word "bike" might generate a half-billion searches, and "kelly" is fairly common. Ten seconds on Google Search Trends (https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%22kelly%20bikes%22) shows "Kelly Bikes" got a couple hundred searches.

[v531xc]

I agree, but but in this case it's completely disingenuous. The word "bike" might generate a half-billion searches, and "kelly" is fairly common. Ten seconds on Google Search Trends (https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%22kelly%20bikes%22) shows "Kelly Bikes" got a couple hundred searches.

Completely agree. Its not indicative of the value of the business, but an interesting anecdote about a small operation. I've consulted for a bunch of well-funded start ups that couldn't tell you the first thing about how their brand stacks against competition in search and, related, in brand awareness. To even see the metric, regardless of how applicable it might be, as part of this small brand's knowledge is what caught me as interesting; the behavior rather than the value

[metalheart]

I've seen a number of his frames on local roads and trails, talked to a couple of people with the bikes since I was not familiar with the maker. Those folks were pretty happy with their bikes and they looked very well made, well painted.

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[Cicli]

I have a Knobby X and love it. Great bike.

[GonaSovereign]

Completely agree. Its not indicative of the value of the business, but an interesting anecdote about a small operation. I've consulted for a bunch of well-funded start ups that couldn't tell you the first thing about how their brand stacks against competition in search and, related, in brand awareness. To even see the metric, regardless of how applicable it might be, as part of this small brand's knowledge is what caught me as interesting; the behavior rather than the value

I do digital marketing for a s/w company serving small businesses, so I agree with you 100%.

[John H.]

SF Bay area bikes shops in the 90's- He was building in Oakland at the time.

What does that even mean?
What street? The "mean streets" of where, exactly?
Were the frames crooked or not? Seems like it would easy enough to yes or no that kind of thing.
They were around a long time, iirc, lots of production, so some errors, I'm sure, but a "bad" builder? Not what I heard, on my streets at least....

And the striped jerseys were awesome.
.

[nalax]

I had two of his mountain bike forks. Well made and not "crooked".
Still have a striped Kelly jersey

[John H.]

I didn't say that the bikes were poorly constructed, just that there were known issues with alignment.
In fact the welds were decent, finish too.
I used to work for a shop who's owner was also an investor in Kelly bikes.
Kelly wanted to do production- focusing on steel hardtails with Kelly green parts on them.
So the owner worked it out where our stores all had several Kelly bikes in stock. They were quite hard to sell.
Consumer desire was moving away from steel hardtails at that time-
Santa Cruz was on the scene and it became impossible to sell a similarly priced steel hardtail against a Santa Cruz Heckler or Superlight.

Yes, that was my impression as well. They were pretty well regarded here in CA.

I am not at all, never have been, directly involved in "the biz", but still, just hanging around the edges I never heard anything really negative.

To me, the frames always looked good, simple but good paint, elegant, cared for. Not "spectacular" like some of the top dogs, but well done. Kind of as if Walter Croll or someone very pragmatic like that had also had a production side as well, along with the development of a few interesting component ideas.
.

[SoCal Al]

Never heard of him but then I'm pretty disconnected from the guys who started years ago. I do know from general observation that it's a tough biz and the model is changing, seems like he's tired and wants to move on?

My take is, if he's in the Bay Area, someone's gotten a hold of him and sold him on his web presence which, as has been pointed out, is in no way tied to sales or revenue. Besides, if he leaves to pursue other options then it's nothing more than a badge and it seems the Slovaks have already got that covered.

It's a shame because his work looks great, maybe there's a glut of hand-built frame builders now? Like craft beer?

[pjbaz]

I have a Bonestock and it is one of the most incredible riding frames I've ever thrown a leg over. STOOPID smooth, fast and an absolute joy to ride. I have it with one of his older 1" threadless straight forks and it's still great ... would love to get a 1-1/8 to match.

I had never heard of him until this particular machine popped up on CL a few years ago. I knew I would buy it after riding 300 feet!

I also had a question about geo so I called him, left a vmail and he called back about an hour later. We spoke for at least 45 minutes about his philosophy, what I was into, the Bonestock vs Knobby X, custom frames, etc. He was super chill and he was open and honest about his past issues, etc. If we had frosty malt beverages and were sitting outside in the sun I don't think it would have been any better of a conversation ... like hanging out with an old friend.

I wish him luck!

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[buddybikes]

Well to put things in perspective, my wife has a Chinook (Bruce Gordon) that was repainted by Toby (Hottubes) and he said rear end was almost 1/4" out of align.

[Peter B]

Kelly's been in Nevada County for about as long as I have (couple of decades). I've never ridden one of his bikes but have admired them at the local LBS (Tour of Nevada City). Every time I've seen Chris he's been on a moto at either the Nevada City Classic or the Amgen Tour.

Sometimes its just time for a change (that has nothing to do with goats, chickens or chicken manure).

[Repack Rider]

Chris is a good friend who calls me his brother from another mother, because we have the same last name. He gave me "Kelly" decals to put on all my bikes!

He is a very good musician, we have jammed together, and a meticulous craftsman. He got ripped off a few years ago when an eastern European company counterfeited his products and brand name.

It's a tough business these days. His shop is amazing, and he is a great frame builder, worked with Bernie Mikkelsen in Oakland before he moved to Nevada City.

I will defend my friend from insults coming from people who have never met him. This guy has a heart the size of Texas.

[CMiller]

https://www.gofundme.com/gofund-kellyr

He is asking for 250k on GoFundMe now

[toosahn]

Kelly is just a $1000 Musa adventure frameset away from sales success. The market is hungry for lighter, more feature rich and comfortable adv/bikepacking bikes at the moment. Id retool and redesign and just make killer frames in that segment.

[hokoman]

https://www.gofundme.com/gofund-kellyr

He is asking for 250k on GoFundMe now

What people put on gofundme is ridiculous. Find a business partner for 250k, but to ask for donations in that amount... c'mon.

[pbarry]

Agreed. Still lots of room in that segment.

Kelly is just a $1000 Musa adventure frameset away from sales success. The market is hungry for lighter, more feature rich and comfortable adv/bikepacking bikes at the moment. Id retool and redesign and just make killer frames in that segment.

[likebikes]

What people put on gofundme is ridiculous. Find a business partner for 250k, but to ask for donations in that amount... c'mon.

remember the gofundme for the bruce gordon "museum" or whatever the proposal was?

[unterhausen]

how about a $1700 lugged MUSA adventure frameset? Will I get rich from selling those? Don't think I would want to try to make $1000 framesets, that's a loser's game.

[R3awak3n]

how about a $1700 lugged MUSA adventure frameset? Will I get rich from selling those? Don't think I would want to try to make $1000 framesets, that's a loser's game.

huge looser game. There are a few already for a bit over that (endpoint, elephant) and they are not making a lot of money on them (and are a bit more $$$). If Kelly wants to finish killing their business it would be offering a $1000 adventure frame.

I like kellys and wish em luck but it seems like throwing money at a problematic business is not going to work.

[toosahn]

So it's Taiwan or bust?

[Llewellyn]

What people put on gofundme is ridiculous. Find a business partner for 250k, but to ask for donations in that amount... c'mon.

+ 1

It doesn't look like the Gofundme is going too well, does it. He needs an investor, not donations.

[jmoore]

how about a $1700 lugged MUSA adventure frameset? Will I get rich from selling those? Don't think I would want to try to make $1000 framesets, that's a loser's game.

Black Mountain seems to be doing OK. Of course he is designing the frames and having them manufactured overseas. So a little different

[unterhausen]

I assume the fact that BMC's musa frame is made of TT Verus means that they don't sell too well unless they bought a lifetime supply 4 years ago

[AngryScientist]

Black Mountain has what i would consider to be a winning combination to survive in the bike business right now. it seems he is doing everything right, and that's a good thing:

>Good location, close to the bay area and people who like the outdoors and have money to spend on recreation.
>Selling in-house designed frames, both at a VERY reasonable pricepoint for offshore production, with an option for MUSA frame for more $
>knowing the market: I can buy any number of 1500 - 2500 dollar gravel bike frames from any number of mfgs, a solid metal bike had for well under a grand that doesnt suck is something there absolutely is a market for
>good service - Mike answers his phone and emails to talk about his cool bikes
>good bike shop attached - i see on instagram he'll work on anything.

[hokoman]

how about a $1700 lugged MUSA adventure frameset? Will I get rich from selling those? Don't think I would want to try to make $1000 framesets, that's a loser's game.

There's a big difference from $1,700 vs $1,000 frameset. I don't even have to think about a $1k frameset, but at $1,700 - there are a lot more options out there where it becomes a much harder sell - like a Rock Lobster (which I own), the NFE that someone mentioned, etc.

[cnighbor1]

I wrote Chris Kelly stating,'' Has you know the Paradise Fire destroyed a frame builders house and business. If you need more staff here is a person that has great frame building skills''
However I can't find the posting on face book. would a kind member send it to Chris Maybe a chance we can get him working again
thanks
charles


Chris Kelly <chris@kellybike.com>

Today at 10:55 AM

Tocnighbor2@yahoo.com


Message body






hi Charles, what frame builder was it? i didn't see a name....



thanks for the email.




Chris Kelly



On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 10:43 AM Charles Nighbor <wordpress@www.kellybike.com> wrote:



Name: Charles Nighbor

Email: cnighbor2@yahoo.com

Phone: 9257081295

Comment: Has you know the Paradise Fire destroyed a frame builders house and business. If you need more staff here is a person that has great frame building skills

[hokoman]

Mitch Pryor from MAP lost his home and business in the fire. I am sure there is another couple though. Devastating.

[cnighbor1]

Mitch Pryor from MAP lost his home and business in the fire. I am sure there is another couple though. Devastating.

thanks
Charles

[unterhausen]

There's a big difference from $1,700 vs $1,000 frameset. I don't even have to think about a $1k frameset, but at $1,700 - there are a lot more options out there where it becomes a much harder sell
I know, but I really don't think that anyone other than QBP or the like can make a $1000 frame in the U.S. At least not for long. Curtlo still has his 2011 price list up, is it still good? I'm pretty sure the Asian factories have a big advantage on materials pricing, even on low-volume bikes like BMC. When I came up with my price, I didn't realize BMC sold a MUSA bike for exactly that price. Verus was TT 4130 tubing, relatively heavy, nothing special over Deda or whatever the Asian BMC's are made from.

[jtbadge]

I know, but I really don't think that anyone other than QBP or the like can make a $1000 frame in the U.S. At least not for long. Curtlo still has his 2011 price list up, is it still good? I'm pretty sure the Asian factories have a big advantage on materials pricing, even on low-volume bikes like BMC. When I came up with my price, I didn't realize BMC sold a MUSA bike for exactly that price. Verus was TT 4130 tubing, relatively heavy, nothing special over Deda or whatever the Asian BMC's are made from.

QBP can hardly make a $1000 frame in Taiwan out of anything other than gaspipe.

[hokoman]

I know, but I really don't think that anyone other than QBP or the like can make a $1000 frame in the U.S. At least not for long. Curtlo still has his 2011 price list up, is it still good? I'm pretty sure the Asian factories have a big advantage on materials pricing, even on low-volume bikes like BMC. When I came up with my price, I didn't realize BMC sold a MUSA bike for exactly that price. Verus was TT 4130 tubing, relatively heavy, nothing special over Deda or whatever the Asian BMC's are made from.

If I was running a bike frame business, I would scale the tubing/set up of multiple sizes and bang out batches - similar to Elephant, you should be able to make $1,000 framesets. If Lynskey can make a $1k titanium frame, not sure why someone can't do steel (but I know zero about the financials in the bike build overhead, so I'm probably wrong). I would leave it raw for $1k, and then coordinate the hand off to a powdercoater, painter or ship as is to the end user and maybe they can buy some bike spray or whatever that is called that Squid uses to finish it themselves. I would offer only one build kit for those interested, no substitutions - 105 build. Keep it simple, and keep it moving. Customization eats up a lot of time. Sorry, just mumbling here.

[unterhausen]

that model would never work. Finish is everything in the bike frame business. Everything.

What was that company people went nuts over selling $1400(I think) frames? In Cleveland. Is that working out?

[jtbadge]

that model would never work. Finish is everything in the bike frame business. Everything.

What was that company people went nuts over selling $1400(I think) frames? In Cleveland. Is that working out?

Wraith? They even were so bold as to offer a, like, $800 frameset on black friday and they never recovered.

[belopsky]

Someone asked if Curtlo's website prices are up to date. As of last fall, they are. He said the site is outdated but his frames are still $990+fork pricing.

[unterhausen]

I was asking because Curtlo's price list was from 2011. Fork is $275, so I say that's a $1300 frame, at least the way my wife does accounting.

Wraith? They even were so bold as to offer a, like, $800 frameset on black friday and they never recovered.

The website is live and it looks nice, but all the frames are $1500. But I guess you can't really order a frame right now, just leave a message.
https://wraithfabrication.com/shop

If you calculate how to sell bikes by what the materials cost and the paint job costs, I could sell frames for $1000. That's essentially working for free and after a while it's going to become obvious you are subsidizing your customers need for N+1. A serious, ongoing company needs to charge more than that now. Anyone else is going to start skipping insurance payments after a couple of years.

[likebikes]

Wraith? They even were so bold as to offer a, like, $800 frameset on black friday and they never recovered.

it was the ugly/junky looking welds that they never recovered from.

[hokoman]

that model would never work. Finish is everything in the bike frame business. Everything.


That's the high end Speedvagen, JB market. We're talking about a budget MUSA frame... I wouldn't expect anything except a single color powder coat on a frame under $1,500. The surprise me paint on the Speedvagen was over that as an add on if I'm not mistaken.

Paul Sadoff made me a frameset several years ago. If he didn't waste his time monkeying around with me regarding measuring me, shooting the sh*t, showing me colors, options, blah blah... he probably could have made another frame! I think I saw on his FB page, he made 100 frames last year. If he had an apprentice cut tubes, answer emails, the phone, etc and Paul focused his time building, maybe he could double his volume? I have no idea how long it takes to weld a frameset. But then again, he might hate the repetition and want the breaks.

[prototoast]

If he had an apprentice cut tubes, answer emails, the phone, etc and Paul focused his time building, maybe he could double his volume? I have no idea how long it takes to weld a frameset. But then again, he might hate the repetition and want the breaks.

So if he wanted to maybe double his output all he'd have to do is... double the labor?

[hokoman]

So if he wanted to maybe double his output all he'd have to do is... double the labor?Bingo. [emoji849] Difference is that to make it sustainable/cost effective, he wouldn't need to pay someone with his skillset. You don't run a bank with all Managing Director level employees, you have Assistants, Analysts, Associates, VPs, etc.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[unterhausen]

that's assuming that he can double his sales. I really doubt that he can. If he built batches on the side, it probably would just cannibalize his own sales of custom frames. There really aren't that many full-time framebuilders in the U.S., if there are 10 I would be surprised. The market just isn't there. Most of us would rather buy gaspipe frames from Asia.

I could upgrade my shop and processes a little and probably put out 10 or more frames in a week, without having an apprentice. Not sure what I would do with them though, having that many frames sitting around would drive my wife crazy.

When I was at Trek, we were required to build 30 main triangles a day, or put on 30 rear triangles. Someone else cut the tubes. But 30 sets of tubes doesn't take all day, there was one guy cutting tubes for 5 people putting them together. The machines to cut tubes were pretty simple, just a glorified tube notcher. The thing they had that I can't really replicate is chemical treatment tanks. I suppose I could replicate it, but I wouldn't want a batch of heated acid in my basement.

It wasn't a bad job, but I quit and went back to college. Not sure I could do that week after week nowadays, especially while worrying about sales. And it's not particularly good for your health.