cycle tour camera? Panasonic ZS100

[eddief]

been using my phone S7. does fine for the basic web photos but thinking about moving up. still need pocketable. lots of great reviews about Sony RX100 in all versions but I have been googling the heck out of Panasonic ZS100. More range and excellent features.

Anyone have an opinion on this Panasonic in particular?

[v531xc]

Might want to check this out: https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-point-and-shoot-under-500/

Also, I'm sure Dpreview has come up in your searches, but if not their reviews are excellent and they do good comparisons.

Roughly, the Canon seems to be 1-2 stops wider aperture at any given focal length than the Panasonic, and the Sony seems to be right in the middle.

For bike touring, I'd want the fastest and most open shooter. My Ricoh GR would be great if it were faster. Personally, I've been considering the Canon for its added range and increased speed (both processing speed and clean ISO).

[jtakeda]

Might want to check this out: https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-point-and-shoot-under-500/

Also, I'm sure Dpreview has come up in your searches, but if not their reviews are excellent and they do good comparisons.

Roughly, the Canon seems to be 1-2 stops wider aperture at any given focal length than the Panasonic, and the Sony seems to be right in the middle.

For bike touring, I'd want the fastest and most open shooter. My Ricoh GR would be great if it were faster. Personally, I've been considering the Canon for its added range and increased speed (both processing speed and clean ISO).

Ricoh is planning on releasing the GRIII in the next few months. I imagine it will be faster! Ricoh GR was my suggestion as well

[eddief]

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-zs100-tz100/8

[v531xc]

Ricoh is planning on releasing the GRIII in the next few months. I imagine it will be faster! Ricoh GR was my suggestion as well

Oh nice! I love mine for street photography and photos while walking/hiking. 28mm is great for landscape and street, but might not offer the versatility needed for photography while touring. Then again, if you like creating presets and don't need zoom, its probably the best pick.

[Joel]

Well, it so happens that I own this very exact camera DMC-ZS100.

Very highly recommended. I bought it as an update to a 10 year old version of the same that literally had the elements worn off of it.

How good is this camera? Well, I put it through the paces of a full month in the Peruvian Andes. Cold, hot, dust, water, llama poop - you name it. The camera worked fine.

Ended up in a village where no westerners had ever been. Was allowed to take pictures in low / no light situations. The camera can be set to be absolutely silent. I mean zero noise at all. Was able to work without distrubing anyone (with permission of course).

Just back from China where I tossed it in for a business trip. Easy to handle, compact and great battery life (do order an extra battery though).

And then there is the Leica lens!

If you have any questions PM me, but honestly just order the darn thing. It's a gem.

Joel

[choke]

I purchased a ZS100 a few months ago and I'm quite happy with it. I'm still learning the ins and outs of all the settings but it definitely takes better pics than the camera it replaced IMO.

[jfranci3]

There is a very narrow range of camera that is worth carrying that is better than an modern cellphone for cameras. The cameras have better lenses and sensors, but the phones have a lot more processing power and a single focus lens. A proper highend enthusiast camera will trounce the phone for low light shots, movement, detail, and color, but the phone does everything fine enough as long as you're not printing photo or zooming in on something.

The difference between all these cameras is going to show in lower light, use (can you use all the feature or are they behind so stupid menu, how is the physical shape in your pocket/hand, how fast does it start up), and motion shots. For touring use, look at something like https://www.imaging-resource.com or www.stevehuffphoto.com/ . look for ISO3200 shots for indoor daytime photo quality and higher ISO night shots. You don't want grainy or blurry photos. An IP8 gets pretty grainy at ISO 1600 (indoor lighting with a decent shutter speed) while the ZS100 has about the quality at 3200 (a step darker); The RX100 III would be about 3200-6400, Pan LX100 6400-12800ish, Sony a5100 almost 12800, the Sony RX1 would go be able to take a decent photo at 12800.


The big question - Are you carrying this in a bag or on the bike?

In my experience, there are only a few shirt/jeans pocket camera worth buying.
1) ZS100 - This seems on the big side here for shirt/pants pocket duty. ALso I had a bad experience with this model's brother the LX100 when the zoom lens jammed, effectively killing the camera. There is also a ZS200 now
2) Canon's G-line - Most of these are great. It's difficult to tell which are current and which has this or that.
3) Sony RX100 - These are great. I found the controls hard to use. Somewhat slow power-on to first focused shot. Otherwise, this is a solid choice except for low light.

Coat pocket/ bag cameras
1) LX100 - is the smallest camera you're going to find that performs in low light. It's easy to use if you want to play with the enthusiast controls. Great image stabilization. The zoom lens mechanically failed on mine.
2) Sony RX1 - Very high end option. Awkward to hold.
3) Sony Nex / compact interchangeable lens camera - I have a sony A5100 with the zoom lens, it's great. The LX100 did what I wanted better, but this is mechanically sound. Buy a used one on Craigslist. The newer ones do everything better, but the older ones, like the Nex-5n, are great too.

Features -
Image stabilization - Yes, you want in-body. The 5-axis inbody IS on my LX100 is way better than the lens based on my old and new Sony Nex. Make a difference in low light, video, and motion.
EVF - Pass! The little traditional viewfinder. They don't don't really add anything. I think its easier to see detail on the larger screen. It is nice when the sun overpowers the LCD.
Interchangeable lens - You're going to use 1 lens most of the time. You might want a 2nd. There's a lot of great product out there, but just buy the Sony units. THey are dominating the scene. I'd only go for something else if your buddy has a few lenses. I use either an adapted 1970 pentax lens or the 'kit' lens.
Wifi - all the wifi functions are ****. I wouldn't worry about it.
AF speed / Time to first shot - critical for wildlife encounters and kids. Make sure the camera autofocus does't hunt in low light (inside bestbuy)
Zoom - I usually just crop the photo. If you're not going to print, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Most 3x physical zooms don't have the zoom you really need.
Warranty - As I learned, on a travel point and shoot with a zoom, get the extended warranty if the price make sense.
Used - I've had good luck with https://www.adorama.com

[yinzerniner]

As the lens on the Panny ZS series is totally different from what's offered on the Sony RX series.

Since you said you'd be using it for a cycle tour, I'm guessing that it'll be used almost exclusively in bright conditions and you'll be taking a lot of photos while on the road. With that, the ZS with it's larger range lens (albeit slower/darker) and better battery life will suit you better than the Sony.

That being said image stabilization, EVF and size below 5x3x2 (WXHXD) is key for mobility and overall usefulness. Having to frame pics while on the move using only an LCD display is the worst.

[eddief]

but I can't see myself carrying a fuller size multi lens camera walking through London or carrying with me on my bike while doing credit card touring. So I think I am looking for a significant step up in quality and flexibility over my S7 phone put with compact size and ease of use.

And I think if I decide to do more real "photography" the ZS will be fine for a while too.

As the lens on the Panny ZS series is totally different from what's offered on the Sony RX series.

Since you said you'd be using it for a cycle tour, I'm guessing that it'll be used almost exclusively in bright conditions and you'll be taking a lot of photos while on the road. With that, the ZS with it's larger range lens (albeit slower/darker) and better battery life will suit you better than the Sony.

That being said image stabilization, EVF and size below 5x3x2 (WXHXD) is key for mobility and overall usefulness. Having to frame pics while on the move using only an LCD display is the worst.

[ptourkin]

1) ZS100 - This seems on the big side here for shirt/pants pocket duty. ALso I had a bad experience with this model's brother the LX100 when the zoom lens jammed, effectively killing the camera. There is also a ZS200 now https://www.adorama.com

ZS200 comparison with ZS100: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-zs200-tz200/2

Key takeaways:

The ZS200 uses the same 20.1MP BSI-CMOS sensor as its predecessor (and likely many other cameras with 1"-type sensors)
The camera's lens has an equivalent focal range of 24-360mm compared with 25-250mm on the ZS100. The tradeoff is that the new lens is 1/2-stop slower at wide-angle and a bit less than that at telephoto.
The electronic viewfinder is larger and higher resolution on the ZS200
The new Sequence Composition feature uses Panasonic's 4K Photo function to grab photos taken in a burst and combine them into a single image
Panasonic has boosted battery life by almost 35% compared to the ZS100, putting it at the top of its class

[muz]

Ricoh is planning on releasing the GRIII in the next few months. I imagine it will be faster! Ricoh GR was my suggestion as well

Along the same lines, I really like my Nikon Coolpix A, similar to Ricoh GR. I often shoot while riding, so fixed focal length works for me.

[jfranci3]

ZS200 comparison with ZS100: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-zs200-tz200/2

Key takeaways:

The ZS200 uses the same 20.1MP BSI-CMOS sensor as its predecessor (and likely many other cameras with 1"-type sensors)
The camera's lens has an equivalent focal range of 24-360mm compared with 25-250mm on the ZS100. The tradeoff is that the new lens is 1/2-stop slower at wide-angle and a bit less than that at telephoto.
The electronic viewfinder is larger and higher resolution on the ZS200
The new Sequence Composition feature uses Panasonic's 4K Photo function to grab photos taken in a burst and combine them into a single image
Panasonic has boosted battery life by almost 35% compared to the ZS100, putting it at the top of its class

How about this....
Lens technology is mature.
Senor technology is largely mature since 2010ish.
When you downsize camera from something like a modern full frame digital camera, you lose low light performance, color sensitivity (like being able to take a picture of black hair), autofocus speed/accuracy, general speed for repeated photos, etc. You don't tend to lose detail or bright light performance as even the worst current camera can take a bigger picture file than you want to deal with, the computers can correct most of the sensor/lens limitations, and enough light hits the small sensors to work with.
http://cameradecision.com/topviewsizecomparison/Sony-Cyber-shot-DSC-RX100-III-vs-Sony-Alpha-7-top-view-size-comparison.jpg

[djg]

There is a very narrow range of camera that is worth carrying that is better than an modern cellphone for cameras. The cameras have better lenses and sensors, but the phones have a lot more processing power and a single focus lens. A proper highend enthusiast camera will trounce the phone for low light shots, movement, detail, and color, but the phone does everything fine enough as long as you're not printing photo or zooming in on something.

The difference between all these cameras is going to show in lower light, use (can you use all the feature or are they behind so stupid menu, how is the physical shape in your pocket/hand, how fast does it start up), and motion shots. For touring use, look at something like https://www.imaging-resource.com or www.stevehuffphoto.com/ . look for ISO3200 shots for indoor daytime photo quality and higher ISO night shots. You don't want grainy or blurry photos. An IP8 gets pretty grainy at ISO 1600 (indoor lighting with a decent shutter speed) while the ZS100 has about the quality at 3200 (a step darker); The RX100 III would be about 3200-6400, Pan LX100 6400-12800ish, Sony a5100 almost 12800, the Sony RX1 would go be able to take a decent photo at 12800.


The big question - Are you carrying this in a bag or on the bike?

In my experience, there are only a few shirt/jeans pocket camera worth buying.
1) ZS100 - This seems on the big side here for shirt/pants pocket duty. ALso I had a bad experience with this model's brother the LX100 when the zoom lens jammed, effectively killing the camera. There is also a ZS200 now
2) Canon's G-line - Most of these are great. It's difficult to tell which are current and which has this or that.
3) Sony RX100 - These are great. I found the controls hard to use. Somewhat slow power-on to first focused shot. Otherwise, this is a solid choice except for low light.

Coat pocket/ bag cameras
1) LX100 - is the smallest camera you're going to find that performs in low light. It's easy to use if you want to play with the enthusiast controls. Great image stabilization. The zoom lens mechanically failed on mine.
2) Sony RX1 - Very high end option. Awkward to hold.
3) Sony Nex / compact interchangeable lens camera - I have a sony A5100 with the zoom lens, it's great. The LX100 did what I wanted better, but this is mechanically sound. Buy a used one on Craigslist. The newer ones do everything better, but the older ones, like the Nex-5n, are great too.

Features -
Image stabilization - Yes, you want in-body. The 5-axis inbody IS on my LX100 is way better than the lens based on my old and new Sony Nex. Make a difference in low light, video, and motion.
EVF - Pass! The little traditional viewfinder. They don't don't really add anything. I think its easier to see detail on the larger screen. It is nice when the sun overpowers the LCD.
Interchangeable lens - You're going to use 1 lens most of the time. You might want a 2nd. There's a lot of great product out there, but just buy the Sony units. THey are dominating the scene. I'd only go for something else if your buddy has a few lenses. I use either an adapted 1970 pentax lens or the 'kit' lens.
Wifi - all the wifi functions are ****. I wouldn't worry about it.
AF speed / Time to first shot - critical for wildlife encounters and kids. Make sure the camera autofocus does't hunt in low light (inside bestbuy)
Zoom - I usually just crop the photo. If you're not going to print, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Most 3x physical zooms don't have the zoom you really need.
Warranty - As I learned, on a travel point and shoot with a zoom, get the extended warranty if the price make sense.
Used - I've had good luck with https://www.adorama.com

I'd probably agree with all of this if I knew enough about the various options out there. Just a couple of things I might add:

WRT Sony NEX: I still have a Sony NEX6 -- on the one hand, it's definitely smaller and more portable than a DSLR -- certainly with the kit lens but also with a prime or a bigger zoom. There's a real advantage there, at least for some of us, at least in some contexts. On the other hand . . . it's definitely a step up in size over the so-called "jeans-pocket" cameras (big old, relaxed fit, dad jeans, check). For bike-touring, I'd think it would go in a pack, instead of a pocket (or one of those bento box type things -- too small for the NEX) -- definitely not in a jersey pocket, where the smaller Sony might do fine in a zip loc.

You mention zooms and cropping -- another advantage of a good pocket camera over a phone (maybe not all models) is the ability to shoot RAW and do some processing after you get off the bike, if you have lightroom or some other utility.

Phones can do surprisingly well these days -- I might do better with one still if I were more adept at using mine. I was one of three dads who pooled phone photos from 12-day backpacking trek with the scouts last summer -- I was definitely watching the ounces on my pack, having failed to watch them on my butt, and didn't want to lug the Sony or a DSLR. We all got some good shots, on the fly. Some surprisingly good shots (among the . . . I dunno . . . 1,500?)

I'm really in no position to say what's best -- or how to juggle the tradeoffs -- but I think one can do pretty well with a phone OR take advantage of the better lens and bigger sensor one can get with a dedicated (coat)pocketable camera.