Insurance Loss - What is comparable to Serotta?

[pe3046]

Hi,

My Serotta Nova Special was damaged in my recent move, and the insurance company is trying to find a comparable new bike.

Serotta Nova Special - Columbus SL tubing
Full Shimano Dura-ace 9spd / 10 Spd
Fizik Alliante Saddle
Thompson Master Elite Seatpost
Wheelsmith Gold Build Wheels
Speedplay Titanium Pedals
3TT Stem and Bars Fizik bar tape
Cateye Computer
Cuissi Elite Stainless Cages

Any thoughts?

[Cicli]

Independent Fabrication with Super Record.
Or a Trek.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Is there a similar steel bike off the shelf? Maybe something Italian?

Man, you had that seatpost in there.

[572cv]

Kirk, Bedford, No.22. All with Serotta palmieres, so maybe an insurance argument to be made there.

[Peter P.]

I think you're going to need a DOCUMENTED estimate from a legitimate bicycle shop. I can't imagine the insurance company is going to take your word for it.

You should bring the bike to a shop for a detailed written estimate, and work with them on comparable parts.

Is the bike a total loss or do only certain parts need replacement?

If I had to ballpark a comparable steel frame as a complete bicycle, I'd say just under $6k for a TIG welded steel frame such as an Independent Fabrications Crown Jewel with a Dura-Ace group. I chose IF because their operation is similar to what Serotta was albeit the Nova Special was a stock frame.

Should you or the bike shop really want to get into the weeds on the estimate, you could list a lugged steel frame, which would increase the price but would certainly be comparable to what is being claimed.

Let us know how you make out.

[charliedid]

Dave Kirk

[Ken Robb]

What is a 20+ year old frame worth? It's not a one-off collector's item. The components weren't damaged, right?

[Gummee]

Lots of the 80s/90s Italian framebuilders are getting back into steel.

Check them: Battaglin et al

M

[bikinchris]

Wow, they are going to buy a new product?

Yeah, I also vote IF Crown Jewel, with a comparable fork. Or a Gunnar stock frame.

[AngryScientist]

i think your comps should be from a comparable sized semi-custom bike builder.

-independant fabrication crown jewel
-seven whateva they call their steel bike
-waterford steel road bike

all with dura ace

i have no idea how they depreciate the value to what you get, probably depends highly on your particular policy; but those three companies are similar in size to the old serotta, so that should be someplace to start i suppose.

[pbarry]

Yep, prices from small to medium sized builders like Independent would be fair market value for a replacement frame. Seven is another comp to consider.

[shinomaster]

get this new SL frame. http://www.somec.com/en/collection/steel_frames/top_class/

[peanutgallery]

What's an 89 Camry with 350,00 miles worth? :)

Take it to a shop, they'll usually do you a solid

[Black Dog]

Kirk, Bedford, No.22. All with Serotta palmieres, so maybe an insurance argument to be made there.

Add Dave Wages of Ellis he is also Serrota alumnus who makes steel bikes.

[jtbadge]

What's an 89 Camry with 350,00 miles worth? :)

Take it to a shop, they'll usually do you a solid

+1 to both parts. I think you’d be lucky to get into a Mr. Pink or something out of this. But a friendly estimate could help.

[DRZRM]

For the naysayers, if you don't carry full replacement on your bikes there is no point in insuring them. You should have a rider specifically for them. Dura Ace replaced with Dura Ace, hand built steel frame with a comperable steel frame. That's what you pay them for.

[weisan]

Met a pal on my ride yesterday who was riding a nice 2003 Serotta Legend Ti. It was custom made for him and had 80,000 miles, gone all over the country over the years with lots of memories. It would be hard to replace a bike like this. I reckon your Nova is the same way....to you.

The builders listed here are all good.

The suggestion to have it "officially" documented by a bike shop is good advice and more likely than not, the only way the insurance company would take your claim seriously if there's ever a dispute over the actual value.

I am sorry for your loss.

[ntb1001]

It all depends on your policy.

My camera equipment is replacement value without listing anything.
My bike, however is not. Capped at $1500 without a specified rider that I would have to pay extra for. I did it one year, insured a 10k value for about $280 per year.
It’s funny that my $40k plus in camera gear is covered 100% without paying extra though, but not my bikes.


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[jrsbike]

"What is comparable to Serotta?'

Nothing compares to a Serotta!

[charliedid]

i think your comps should be from a comparable sized semi-custom bike builder.

-independant fabrication crown jewel
-seven whateva they call their steel bike
-waterford steel road bike

all with dura ace

i have no idea how they depreciate the value to what you get, probably depends highly on your particular policy; but those three companies are similar in size to the old serotta, so that should be someplace to start i suppose.

That actually makes more sense. I said Dave because he is a direct descendant but Waterford or Seven probably makes most sense. I guess it all depends on policy but those two are probably a better replacement avenue vs a one man shop.

[oldpotatoe]

A decent bike shop can evaluate the bike, it's damage and replacement cost(and write it all down for the insurance company, I did that all the time). A US made, lugged steel bike with top of the line shimano components, hand built wheels, etc..like a Waterford, IF, something like that.

[tctyres]

A decent bike shop can evaluate the bike, it's damage and replacement cost(and write it all down for the insurance company, I did that all the time). A US made, lugged steel bike with top of the line shimano components, hand built wheels, etc..like a Waterford, IF, something like that.

^This

I had a bike damaged last year and had to go through the insurance process. It depends on the insurance type.

Generally, you would need to itemize everything at replacement value. A reputable bike shop can do this for you. You would want to replace dura ace for dura ace, etc.

The insurance company covers the bottom line less the devalued cost. However, bikes are relatively cheap so they are unlikely to devalue it. You get the replacement dollars directly and then can do what you want with them. This is what they did for me.

Talk of other bikes comes after you have the insurance replacement cost.

[pe3046]

Currently we are at $3950, with a 30% depreciation netting $2650 but they also did $100,000 in damage during the move. They have a comparable but from looking at the bike online it is a prototype serotta and not my size (I have short legs long torso) no pedals, and not dura-ace. I have a call into them for more info, but have not heard back yet. I do have full value insurance with replacement value, from the moving company and my homeowners. I pay $6000 a year for insurance + $2000 for moving insurance for this move, so I want to make sure I am getting what I paid for. On the other hand, my camera equipment is capped at $1500 here. I have to get coverage through one of the professional associations I belong too.

[cmbicycles]

$100k in damage? :eek: Did the moving truck fall off the freeway?

[DRZRM]

Funny, my computers and electronics (I think cameras are included) are limited, but bikes are not. I think my values are very closely reversed from yours. I'd look into another insurance company, many will cover bikes without a specific rider.

It all depends on your policy.

My camera equipment is replacement value without listing anything.
My bike, however is not. Capped at $1500 without a specified rider that I would have to pay extra for. I did it one year, insured a 10k value for about $280 per year.
It’s funny that my $40k plus in camera gear is covered 100% without paying extra though, but not my bikes.


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[paredown]

As a comment--we had to do a full 'Valued inventory' when we moved overseas.

It was an eye-opener to see every thing listed and assigned a value--the value of what we had was accumulated over quite a number of years, and the replacement value was pretty staggering.

It would be good discipline to do this for anyone who is concerned about their insurance coverage.

[pe3046]

We moved to Florida, finding insurance here is not easy. Most of the companies will not write policies here and those that do have a high hurricane deductible (ours is 2% so we have to have more than $17k in damage before insurance even kicks in), the highest recommendation was Chubb insurance but they came out and inspected the house and valued it so our deductible would be close to $30k in a hurricane. The movers just did a bad job, they damaged all of our furniture and dropped a grand piano and just wrapped vs. packing because they were understaffed and worked close to 20 hours on the last day. My wife's jewelry cabinet they did not pack, they just threw it on the truck and many pieces are missing. I do recommend photographing everything you have, and making an excel chart. You will be surprised how quickly it adds up, or you may find you are over insured on personal property. In event of total loss like fire, you will at least have a record of all your property.

[C40_guy]

When my parents moved, only one item was lost...a statue that my grandfather had made many years earlier. It was a bust of a young woman, waist up, bare.

I remember copping a feel for the first time on that bronze statue, when I was about three years old.

My grandmother claimed that while most of the statue was based on a young model who sat for the work, the ears were definitely hers.

My guess is that it wasn't "lost" in the move, but put aside by one of the movers who found the statue, um, interesting.

[MerckxMad]

Guessing at the value is fun and all, but you'll need a written estimate of repair/replacement for the insurance co. to pay your claim.

[djg]

Currently we are at $3950, with a 30% depreciation netting $2650 but they also did $100,000 in damage during the move. They have a comparable but from looking at the bike online it is a prototype serotta and not my size (I have short legs long torso) no pedals, and not dura-ace. I have a call into them for more info, but have not heard back yet. I do have full value insurance with replacement value, from the moving company and my homeowners. I pay $6000 a year for insurance + $2000 for moving insurance for this move, so I want to make sure I am getting what I paid for. On the other hand, my camera equipAment is capped at $1500 here. I have to get coverage through one of the professional associations I belong too.

It's still possible to buy a high quality steel road frame and a reputable bike shop should be able to describe one or more comparable offerings in today's market. A new-old-very-old-stock bike of unknown and non-matching particulars that doesn't fit you really is not much of a benchmark for a comparable bike, as it's a one-off price on something that doesn't really match and wouldn't be acceptable to you in any case. There are all sorts of policies, and I don't know yours, but replacement value typically should acquire a replacement in today's market. A new bike.

Years ago, a Serotta of mine was stolen. It was only a few years old, but the model was not available any more, and titanium bikes had gone up in price all around. Serotta was still in business then, and willing to provide information on the different models. Lacking a direct replacement, the insurer was willing to buy me the next best thing in Serotta's line, knowing full well that they would be buying me a significantly more expensive bike than the one that was stolen. I just paid the deductible. In fact, they offered me considerably less in cash (a depreciated amount) than they were willing to pay to purchase a new bike. All fine, under the policy, it seemed, so I ordered a new bike (given some complications at Serotta at the time, it somehow wound up that it would be easier for me, and no more expensive, to get a custom Spectrum, so that's what I got). I had a personal fitting by Tom, and he built me a great bike.

[jrsbike]

These days most moving companies, even the well known ones, are self insured and will do everything they can to limit pay outs. NEVER NEVER sign off on delivery until each and every item has been inspected. Take photos prior to the move.

[pe3046]

That is very true, it took them 5 days to pack and then a 20 hour rush to load the truck but only 3 hours to unload an entire semi. Lots of lessons learned in this move. A good outcome is that I will be getting a new to me Seven Axiom SL that was posted in the classifieds, my homeowners policy has been very good to work with but Atlas moving not so much. Thanks to everyone for all the ideas they posted, I contacted Serotta Design Studio and my local bike store for comparable quotes.

[Matthew]

Wow, who moved you? Two a holes and a truck? 100k in damage is crazy. Their bosses must be fuming. Sorry for all of your losses.

[cmg]

$100k loss for a move? how much did the move cost? you may have just bankrupted the company or you may be the new owner. wow.

[pe3046]

Atlas Van Lines, cost to move was about $20,000.

Next time you move, please take a good and long hard look at the quote. You want full value replacement insurance not the 60 cents per pound, and the magic words "climatic damage" to be covered.

Items were packed in zebra pattern moving blankets and not microfiber, and moved in middle of snow storm in non-climate controlled truck. Also, to move a tv cost $599 for the boxing and unboxing was close to the same. I paid $1200 to move a $300 tv. if you live in an area with a large development, good chance someone just moved in and has moving boxes. Photograph everything before and after, and also during the move. I had 2 of the 3 movers that Atlas hired working over 20 hours with their kids home alone unsupervised and unfed, I called Atlas and explained that they needed to send replacement workers so these guys could get home to their kids. Of course Atlas did not send any reinforcements. In South Florida, everyone is out to make a buck. The guys provided to unload the truck stacked everything up blocking doorways and box on top of box, assembled furniture with all the wrong parts. Every time they were questioned about this their response was "I am the owner of my own moving company, here is my card. I can come back tomorrow and help you out and we can get it just the way you want it." Next time they are not leaving till everything is accounted for and put together correctly.

However, the biggest lesson I learned was to give / throw away what you don't need. Don't pay to move something that is worth nothing to you or you are not going to use, Goodwill and other charities can and will put them to good use.

[11.4]

Sorry to hear about this. I've gone through two substantial claims in recent years, one on bikes, one not.

Your comment about getting supplemental insurance is well-founded. Otherwise one is covered only for $0.60/lb. However, the supplemental policies through the mover are often crap -- requiring every item be itemized and putting caps on the value of each that you can only calculate by reading all the fine print. My homeowners' policy was the salvation on both moves. I had replacement insurance and either got paid on the spot for items or if there was depreciation imputed on an item, I got the depreciated amount immediately but got the rest up to the replacement cost when I purchased the replacement and could show a receipt. I actually only had to show a valid quote from a custom builder and the insurer accepted that. Because I was buying all kinds of components from different sources, it was complicated but they weren't unreasonable. The moving company's insurance was useless. I'm glad I got it because I used it on furniture damage, but they weren't equipped to handle the bikes.

I've had a combination of Chubb and Amica and been very happy with both. Never had a real question about coverages, and in one case I had a Serotta Legend Ti stolen, along with a bunch of expensive accessories, and they simply wrote me up a total and paid for a brand new replacement Moots (Serotta had closed its doors at that time). The bike's gruppo was a generation old and the frame was about seven years old, but it all was fully covered and they actually let me upgrade a bit along the way because the standard on components had improved from when I got the Serotta to when I replaced it.

By the way, for artwork, mirrors, flat screen TVs, and so on, the best trick around is to pack everything in bike boxes. I've moved many times with many bikes and as soon as I know I'll be moving, I start collecting high-grade bike boxes. Those are typically slightly larger than others (e.g., Trek Madone versus boxes for less expensive frames), from certain manufacturers (Comotion have the absolute best wheel and frame boxes, followed by Santa Cruz, followed by BMC, and then I just watch for good boxes from wherever. Some of the best boxes are double thickness, wide, have grip cutouts in the right places, and aren't cut up. I pay the shop manager at a couple local shops with some six-packs to pull the best boxes aside and to open them properly rather than cutting them open. I do pack much of my stuff myself, but I also have a lot of valuable artwork and a lot of bike equipment and high end TVs, so I don't trust those to movers.

But as far as insurance goes, always read the fine print and never trust the third party policies offered through some movers. Get a dedicated moving policy from an independent but credible insurer or get a big rider on your homeowners' policy. I prefer the dedicated policy because if anything goes wrong, it doesn't get reflected on my homeowners' policy premiums, and I can also tailor a specific policy. The premium is always worth it. If you have nice stuff, something always gets tweaked or broken.

[FlashUNC]

Custom and semi-custom production shop?

Mosaic and IF come to mind.

[sjbraun]

Lugged Hampsten, Kirk, Strong, Waterford

[pe3046]

Final note, they valued the bike at full replacement to a brand new Serotta - 30% depreciation. Took a long time to get resolved, but I highly recommend you make sure your bikes are covered at full replacement value. While I am sad to see my Serotta go, I have too many projects that I need to focus capital on but I did pick up a nice Seven on here to ride.

[Team Murray]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180726/72d307e1fab022f6928d27b5012ace72.jpg
I have that exact frame, fully restored with a modern day group. If you like, I can get an estimate for mine.

[Team Murray]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180726/72d307e1fab022f6928d27b5012ace72.jpg
I have that exact frame, fully restored with a modern day group. If you like, I can get an estimate for mine.



BTW, if you’re interested in this bike, I’m trying to sell it. PM me

[andeww]

On the topic, Can anyone recommend a renter's insurance that will cover high end bikes? I got a quote through AAA (whom i used years ago) and their MAX payout on a Sporting Good category is $1500.

[TunaAndBikes]

Fwiw i used to work at a bike shop and pulling quotes was usually out of catalog value at full retail value for custom builds that were damaged or stolen so it'd add up real quickly.
Good luck with the process!


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[cash05458]

the insurance company might not give you the full fizak tape thing...such is life...good luck!

[cash05458]

BTW, if you’re interested in this bike, I’m trying to sell it. PM me



Personal estimate to follow I am guessing for the insurance guys?:) sounds like a real win win for all involved...

[Irishgirl]

I would recommend looking into a policy that specifically lists your bike (and other valuables that may have specific limits on your homeowners or renters policy such as art, jewelry, firearms, collectibles. Personal insurance carriers such as State Farm call these policies Personal Articles Policies - these are separate policies from your home insurance and may carry a different deductible from your home or renters insurance. These policies also are RCV (replacement cost value) vs ACV (actual cost value). It will require you to provide a stated value and you will need to include an appraisal. I would also recommend reviewing these policies and values on an annual basis as the value stated on the policy would be limited by the amount stated on the policy. These personal article policies also tend to be all risk which means the item insured would be covered for no matter the loss with the exception of fraud or intentional misuse or intentional damage.

All to often many people do not take the time to review their coverages to understand what is covered and what’s not and often find out after they have had a loss and need to make a claim.

Chances are the person handling the claim for your bike will be unfamiliar and you will need to provide an estimate for like, kind,and quality and I’d definitely itemize any upgrades you may have made...oh and if you were fitted for your bike they may cover the expense of that too.

As far as the sentimental value unfortunately the insurance companies do not owe for this loss and is not factored into the settlement. However, I’m sure many on this forum and myself included understand your loss on that front.

It’s definitely a pain and best of luck!





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