Real world Keto diet questions

[Clydesdale]

Just finished the velo podcast on Keto diet and it made me curious.

I'm not really interested in the ketogenic end of the scale but the references to transitioning to "fat-burning" are intriguing.

Anyone out there doing a (reasonably) low carb diet and willing to share their experience and results?

What have you noticed? What do you eat? What do you miss?

Thanks

[adrien]

Not scientific, but I've been doing some version of the 16-8 approach and low carb for about 2 years.

Interestingly, I don't miss eating the other 16 hours, and all I have is black coffee or if I've had a hard workout the day before I'll do something simple like an egg and/or avocado. I went through a stage of being hungry / grumpy around 11am, but that's mostly over.

I can ride without food in the am well enough for a decent effort -- 30-40 miles at 70-80% with no apparent effect. More than that and I eat in the morning, and add a few carbs (toast).

Evening I have a proper / real meal, though pasta, rice and similar are usually foregone. I'm not nuts about the regime, but put them aside unless I specifically am craving them.

I've noticed I seem much leaner, muscles are more visible and belly lower. I have NOT lost any weight, though I've been doing yoga and free weights, and I believe I've put on some muscle.

Importantly, I feel great. Stamina is very high.

I'm 48. 6'3, 216 pounds, 34 waist and 42 chest.

[Mzilliox]

I think the key to diets is your willingness to adhere. but it does not require a diet so to speak to simply choose better, does it? i mean i guess for some perhaps it does...

I have naturally decided to remove a fair amount of carbs from my diet in the form of refined sugars. This has been a good thing. now overly sweet doesn't taste good to me anymore.

i think the key to diet success is restructuring your life to exclude whatever it as causing your weight gain, distress, or bad health. then reformulating to not only choose better food, but choose a better lifestyle. Maybe Keto helps some folks on the path.

but really i think one is better off just eating food, not too much, mostly veggies. we don't just owe ourselves good health, we owe it to the planet, and one follows the other.

i think a diet that focuses on eating a lot of meat is also morally questionable, as we do not require such large amounts of meat for survival. The meat industry as a whole is incredibly immoral in so many ways, and thats even before getting into the value of life.

i know i know, something about science and yadda yadda yadda, but to be fair, science has been incredibly poor at suggesting proper eating for humans.

disclaimer: yes, im the guy people see and say "but you dont have to worry, you are blessed with genetics." then i show them a picture of fat Matt at 190 lbs instead of 150. Fat Matt ate fast food and drank soda, consumed dessert without thought, and didn't know how to cook. He also played soccer a lot, trained 5 days a week, and otherwise would have been thought to be healthy. fat Matt also sat behind a desk while doing these things, and he treated himself to starbucks during said office time, to counter the boringness of office life. this was not a good lifestyle for being healthy. Fat Matt had to be reborn into fit Matt, and now at age 38, im lighter and fitter than ever before, and i find fast food and soda intolerable. so maybe im not an outlier but rather a success story and one worth listening to... but sure, listen to people selling you stuff, not the guy selling nothing.

[johnmdesigner]

I think the key to diets is your willingness to adhere. but it does not require a diet so to speak to simply choose better, does it? i mean i guess for some perhaps it does...

I have naturally decided to remove a fair amount of carbs from my diet in the form of refined sugars. This has been a good thing. now overly sweet doesn't taste good to me anymore.

i think the key to diet success is restructuring your life to exclude whatever it as causing your weight gain, distress, or bad health. then reformulating to not only choose better food, but choose a better lifestyle. Maybe Keto helps some folks on the path.

but really i think one is better off just eating food, not too much, mostly veggies. we don't just owe ourselves good health, we owe it to the planet, and one follows the other.

i think a diet that focuses on eating a lot of meat is also morally questionable, as we do not require such large amounts of meat for survival. The meat industry as a whole is incredibly immoral in so many ways, and thats even before getting into the value of life.

i know i know, something about science and yadda yadda yadda, but to be fair, science has been incredibly poor at suggesting proper eating for humans.

disclaimer: yes, im the guy people see and say "but you dont have to worry, you are blessed with genetics." then i show them a picture of fat Matt at 190 lbs instead of 150. Fat Matt ate fast food and drank soda, consumed dessert without thought, and didn't know how to cook. He also played soccer a lot, trained 5 days a week, and otherwise would have been thought to be healthy. fat Matt also sat behind a desk while doing these things, and he treated himself to starbucks during said office time, to counter the boringness of office life. this was not a good lifestyle for being healthy. Fat Matt had to be reborn into fit Matt, and now at age 38, im lighter and fitter than ever before, and i find fast food and soda intolerable.

My post of the day!
Thanks for this!

[Mzilliox]

My post of the day!
Thanks for this!

Sure, ever since i was old enough to try out thinking for myself, this has been one of those "aha" things. one of those "why do people know how to get to the moon, but not know how to eat?" things.

[John H.]

I think Matt said pretty much everything.

That said, a keto diet can work well for some. It doesn't work that well for me- But I know some who have lost significant weight.

Some look to the diet for performance gains- From everything I have read, any gains come from a significant weight loss- Not some magic that occurs with your metabolism.
In fact, high end efforts tend to suffer with a keto/fat adapted diet.

I think that anyone who is looking to change their diet should ask themselves what their goals and limiters are.



Just finished the velo podcast on Keto diet and it made me curious.

I'm not really interested in the ketogenic end of the scale but the references to transitioning to "fat-burning" are intriguing.

Anyone out there doing a (reasonably) low carb diet and willing to share their experience and results?

What have you noticed? What do you eat? What do you miss?

Thanks

[Clydesdale]

I probably should have said that I don't have a lot of weight to lose, am pretty fit by reasonable standards, and my blood numbers are all good. I'm just curious about ditching sugars and possibly some other carbs and curious to hear from people who did it.

I don't really "diet" at all. I eat what I feel like eating (which includes meals out and a craving for sugar) but stay close to a daily calorie number that keeps my weight pretty steady. I will add some extra "good" carbs after long or hard rides and love basically everything so lots of fruits, vegetables, etc.

Basically, I'm intrigued by the term "fat-adapted" and trying to imagine a low carb diet is hard both for discipline reasons and physiological ones, so experience from those who have done it is appreciated. Thanks for the good thoughts.

[Heisenberg]

Some look to the diet for performance gains- From everything I have read, any gains come from a significant weight loss- Not some magic that occurs with your metabolism.
In fact, high end efforts tend to suffer with a keto/fat adapted diet.

I think that anyone who is looking to change their diet should ask themselves what their goals and limiters are.

I played with ketosis in 2014-15 in an attempt to boost fat combustion % at high intensity after reading some studies suggesting it was a possibility. After all, less CHO combustion at threshold means a far deeper gas tank in a race...

Unfortunately, as you've suggested, it negatively impacts aerobic threshold. At least, in the brief amount of time I tried it (90 days or so). I shed a bit of weight, but saw a 10-20% drop in threshold power, especially during long endurance rides (4-6hrs). Also, when I first started, life sucked. I had to tolerate exhaustion and sluggishness for some time with a 15-25hr/wk training load. Eating nuts while climbing 3 hours to Big Bear is a miserable hell.

I think it's quite possible to turn yourself into a ketone-burning beast that can perform at an elite level, but it may take several years for your body to fully "switch over", and you'll totally suck in the process.

[wasfast]

I've been an advocate but with some caveats. It's most effective for "carb junkies", i.e. those that crave carbs no matter what. If you're more of a protein person then it's far less effective.

Agree with Heisenberg that the first 2-3 weeks were not pleasant on the bike. I felt sluggish at a minimum. But I continued with it and essentially was the same as before.

Pros: The rollercoaster of craving and sleepiness after eating were mostly gone. I think you lose weight as much for lack of hunger VS the actual change in the sugars VS fats "conversion". Good for weight loss, no performance improvement (i.e. faster because you're lighter but not more power output).

[glepore]

I heard the podcast as well, and have been following the topic for a bit.
The velonews guy is a bit of a zealot for the diet.

My take is that its all about managing insulin swings, and what each individual tolerates. Highly personal. In my case, simple sugars ingested alone are a no-no. However, when mixed with veggies or healthy fat, I do fine-pasta with sauce and olive oil is no problem. In fact I run best with carb stores topped off. Do I need a giant carbo load before an event? No. Do I want carbs after, yeah.

That said, the average american diet is full of simple processed sugars that are absolute insulin bombs, and horrible. The more pre-prepared foods, meals out, juices, mystery smoothies etc you have, the worse off. Even fruits, while loaded with vitamins and fiber, are sugar bombs if not managed appropriately.

Prepare your own meals, know what is in them, get quality fats (not tons of animal fat, and careful even with which vegetable fats), and yes, try some intermittent fasting within reason.

As with just about everything in life, moderation is the secret.

[kurto]

but really i think one is better off just eating food, not too much, mostly veggies. we don't just owe ourselves good health, we owe it to the planet, and one follows the other.


This is it for me. It's basically Michael Pollan's main 7-word rule: "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants."

As far as keto, it can work. I'm into Crossfit as well as cycling, and lots of crossfitters have played with keto over the last few years (I'm not one of them). It's great for weight loss, but it's not so great for athletic performance, and I've never seen anyone stick with it long-term. I prefer to focus on food quality as a diet strategy. Don't eat garbage and your body comp will work out over time.

[Miller76]

I've dabbled with multiple diets over the last few years. Intermittent Fasting has had the most success and been the easiest to maintain. I weighed in north of 245lbs in December 2017 and had two weeks off over Christmas to spend with the family.

I started a combination of IF and cut out the processed food and snacks and within 2 months I had dropped 18lbs. I don't drink soda and rarely drink alcohol so the weight loss has come from cutting processed food and obviously eating less. I'm down to 215lbs now and I feel that the IF is here to stay. My target is to get below 200lbs by year end.

I don't have a power meter but my Strava and Zwift show way more PRs than I have seen in a long time.

[fmradio516]

I've dabbled with multiple diets over the last few years. Intermittent Fasting has had the most success and been the easiest to maintain. I weighed in north of 245lbs in December 2017 and had two weeks off over Christmas to spend with the family.

I started a combination of IF and cut out the processed food and snacks and within 2 months I had dropped 18lbs. I don't drink soda and rarely drink alcohol so the weight loss has come from cutting processed food and obviously eating less. I'm down to 215lbs now and I feel that the IF is here to stay. My target is to get below 200lbs by year end.

I don't have a power meter but my Strava and Zwift show way more PRs than I have seen in a long time.

I second the IF life.

[crownjewelwl]

i got a cgm (freestyle libre) to check this stuff out...a few observations:

1. it takes a few weeks to get in ketosis
2. just calorie and carb restriction doesnt get you there
3. you need to get most of your calories from fat...otherwise your body breaks down protein into (you guessed it) glucose

i did have some fun with it...i crushed a pint of ben & jerrys with little to no impact on my blood sugar...my guess is that the high fat content blunted the sugar rush

sadly, beer had the most impact on my blood sugar...BOO!

[crankles]

I heard the podcast as well, and have been following the topic for a bit.
The velonews guy is a bit of a zealot for the diet.

My take is that its all about managing insulin swings, and what each individual tolerates.

keeping insulin levers low and level is the key. There are many approaches to that end. For some it's IF, others Keto.

I did a little experiment this spring I called " no fun February". It was "kinda keto". I cut out simple sugars, potatoes, bread, pasta...etc but I did continue to eat apples, blueberries, legumes and such. I even had a glass of wine with dinner and a square of chocolate after.

I had a dexa scan @ the end of January and again in April. While I did not lose a ton of weight...only 3 lbs, I did lose 5 lbs of fat and added 2lbs of muscle. I was only in the gym once per week doing strictly aerobic work. No big weights... and no added cycling mileage.

[false_Aest]

Hey,

Thought I'd chime in after 7-8 weeks of doing it (two 3-day cheats thrown in there because family + vacation)

1. I've lost about 11lbs.
2. Wasn't that hard for me to kill carbs once I decided to do it.
3. Sugar substitutes suck so I just don't bother. Don't tease yourself, getting sugar-free whatever makes it harder, not easier. Your body knows that you're lying to it.
4. 4pm sleepies no longer exist.
5. If I eat decently in the morning I'm actually good until lunch w.out snacking.
6. Sometimes I just really hate meat and fat now.
7. Aerobic efforts are easy no problem.
8. Anaerobic efforts suck so bad. I simply do not have the push anymore. It was really, really, really bad during weeks 1-3. It's getting better but I don't think I'd be able to put out as much w/out going back to eating carbs. Lifting weights is where it really shows for me. Legs day isn't fun anymore.
9. Keto breath sucks! Be prepared for it. Prepare your loved ones.
10. I learned to like kale.

I'm gonna do it for 3 months then re-evaluate.

[Devotion]

Anybody hear/read about their plans for Los Angeles?

[wasfast]

False Aest, I mirror all the comments you listed. The challenge I have had is long term. I did Keto for 2 years straight and gradually started on carbs again. I've been able to keep my weight down but through other methods.

Congrats on losing the 11 lbs.

[false_Aest]

False Aest, I mirror all the comments you listed. The challenge I have had is long term. I did Keto for 2 years straight and gradually started on carbs again. I've been able to keep my weight down but through other methods.

Congrats on losing the 11 lbs.

Thanks! I'm re-assessing my goals a little bit. Gonna try to get down to 68kg (from 77.6kg) and then see what I need to do. If things stay consistent I think I might hit it just past 3 months.

If I can hold my FTP. In May my kg/W was ~ 3.48. If I can keep the FTP the same it'll be ~ 4.04. To my art-school math brain that sounds like I'm doing 16% better. I'll take it.

Side note: I ate dinner last night at 9pm. Totally forgot to eat breakfast today (other than a cappuccino). Made it until about 12:30pm before I realized that I was hungry. Then suddenly I was STARVING!