10 speed Record or 11 speed Potenza?

[tbike4]

I had one Campy equipped bike about 6 years ago. It had 10 speed Chorus with aluminum crank and bits except the shifters. Did not like the frame so the bike went away. I have a frame incoming and I think it needs silver Campy bits. It'a a Colnago Master with pretty wild paint.

I can get a Record 10 speed group that is silver except the shifters or go with new silver Potenza. Any opinions? Or tell me who cares and I will go with dark 11 speed Shimano.

[FlashUNC]

The 11 speed stuff is nice. I say 11 personally over, at best, 10 year old parts.

[saab2000]

I can get a Record 10 speed group that is silver except the shifters or go with new silver Potenza. Any opinions? Or tell me who cares and I will go with dark 11 speed Shimano.

10-speed Record is great stuff. It's also old and no longer current.

Disclaimer: I haven't used the newer Campagnolo so I can't comment on it. Others seem to like it and I'm sure it's fine.

That said, I do have and use regularly 11-speed Shimano and am totally impressed with it, especially at the 105 level, which performs basically identically to my Dura Ace 11-speed at a much lower cost. Big fan here.

[R3awak3n]

really depends if you value gear dumping. If you do, you don't want potenza. If you don't, then potenza is just fine.

I like the 11 speed levers better so I will always pick 11 over 10 personally. Oh also, I like that its easy to find a mid cage 11 speed RD so I can run a 32T cassette

[AngryScientist]

11 speed all day.

here's why:

you can use shimano splined wheels and 5800 cassettes.

campy-10 was nice stuff, but it's all old and out of production. if you break a shifter, you're stuck scouring ebay for what you need, and you're tied to campy wheels and cassettes. there is much more versatility for the 11-sp sector.

IMO.

[R3awak3n]

11 speed all day.

here's why:

you can use shimano splined wheels and 5800 cassettes.

campy-10 was nice stuff, but it's all old and out of production. if you break a shifter, you're stuck scouring ebay for what you need, and you're tied to campy wheels and cassettes. there is much more versatility for the 11-sp sector.

IMO.

and how could I have forgotten that. 11 speed all day, shimano cassettes are cheap and work great

[colker]

and how could I have forgotten that. 11 speed all day, shimano cassettes are cheap and work great

10 sp veloce cassettes cost 40 dollars. How much cheaper is a shimano 11 sp cassette?
If you break a campagnolo 10sp shifter, you fix it.
Campagnolo 10sp is said to hold adjustments better and to be less finicky. I heard some complaints on Potenza being finicky to adjust.
If you can get a pristine record 10 group, jump on it. Unless you want compact cranks.
Another huge plus is the square taper bb but you won´t have compact rings. A 13-29 cassette is the answer but you will need a long cage derrailleur.

[bigbill]

Hard core campy guy here, three road bikes with 11 speed, one with 10 speed. I've got a gravel bike with Ultegra and Ultegra level hydro (685) shifters and it works so well. I don't even see the reason for Di2 if the mechanical is this nice on all levels. Precise, a nice campy-like click when I shift, and the parts are cheap in comparison and carried in just about any LBS.

I don't know if I'll ever be fast again, but if I was building a go-fast bike I'd build it up with 8000.

[colker]

Hard core campy guy here, three road bikes with 11 speed, one with 10 speed. I've got a gravel bike with Ultegra and Ultegra level hydro (685) shifters and it works so well. I don't even see the reason for Di2 if the mechanical is this nice on all levels. Precise, a nice campy-like click when I shift, and the parts are cheap in comparison and carried in just about any LBS.

I don't know if I'll ever be fast again, but if I was building a go-fast bike I'd build it up with 8000.

It´s a lugged steel italian bike; he wants campy bling and there isn´t anything wrong w/ that.

[chrisroph]

Long time campy user here. Campy 10 works so very well. Campy 11 is also exceptional but a little bit tweakier to set up and use. The lever shape is also quite different, with more of a saddle, less flat. Nevertheless, I'd suggest Athena or Potenza 11, they are excellent groupos and a wonderful value.

[R3awak3n]

10 sp veloce cassettes cost 40 dollars. How much cheaper is a shimano 11 sp cassette?
If you break a campagnolo 10sp shifter, you fix it.
Campagnolo 10sp is said to hold adjustments better and to be less finicky. I heard some complaints on Potenza being finicky to adjust.
If you can get a pristine record 10 group, jump on it. Unless you want compact cranks.
Another huge plus is the square taper bb but you won´t have compact rings. A 13-29 cassette is the answer but you will need a long cage derrailleur.

I just got a 105 cassette for $35.
A lot more wheelsets out there that take shimano so better choice.
I never had potenza so can't comment, I did have athena, also power shift, a breeze to setup.
Pristine Record 10 will be a lot more money than Potenza... Will also not be all silver.
Potenza crank, although not up to everyones high standards here, lets you do compact and standard by just changing chainrings.
You don't need long or mid cage to run a 13-29 cassette on 10 speed... I ran that on my centaur 10 for many years, perfect in every way and many people have also ran it. You don't however have an option for a 32T cassette AFAIK... You do with Potenza.

But to me, like I mentioned all comes down to lever shape and dumpage. 11 speed is that much nicer to me.

[bigbill]

It´s a lugged steel italian bike; he wants campy bling and there isn´t anything wrong w/ that.

My Merckx has ten speed Record with alloy Centaur levers (rebranded alloy Chorus). The only carbon bit is the plates on the rear derailleur. It is a nice look. My 97 GT (Nobilette) has all alloy Athena. I get it but holy cow the new Ultegra 11 is nice.

[ultraman6970]

I have 10 and potenza 11 in one bike, 11 works fine if you dont care about weight and you dont need to dump a lot of cogs in one click.

[tbike4]

It´s a lugged steel italian bike; he wants campy bling and there isn´t anything wrong w/ that.

^This. I have some 11 speed Shimano and yes it does work great. I just put a 6800 group on a friends bike this week. My next Shimano group will be 8000 me thinks. But no black crank for my incoming frame. Oh and I do not care about gear dumping.

This one with DA 9000 might work I guess. Not my frame. Here's a Master with Potenza from the floor of Adrenaline bikes, my new favorite shop!! Not sure what the wheels are but I can probably go with black rims.

[colker]

I would go new Chorus 11. Black or whatever other color it comes in.
And a pair of Neutrons.

The red Colnago would look much better w/ BLACK components all over.

[p nut]

really depends if you value gear dumping. If you do, you don't want potenza. If you don't, then potenza is just fine...

I went from Chorus to Potenza. I miss the gear dump. Next go around will be Chorus. Hopefully, Campag implements self extracting cranks for that line up.

[beeatnik]

Record 10, all day.

[Johnnysmooth]

Dedicated to Campy on all of my bikes (except MTB - of course).

Have 11spd record on one and 10spd Chorus and/or Record on others. Have seen little advantage to 11spd beyond the ergo shifters which I prefer over the ten spd versions. 11spd is also far more finicky to adjust/dial-in and get shifting just rt. Once its there - its great but a royal pain till then.

At end of day, find the shifting, ease of maintenance & gear range with 10spd to be superior to jump up to 11

[colker]

Btw... i have seen new record 10 shifters selling in shops on line. New derrailleurs as well. Not cheap. But it lasts.
I hear Campagnolo keeps producing them. Is this true?

[sailorboy]

functionally you really can't go too wrong either way here (as long as you avoid ScRAM :p). I have been dabbling back with campy 9, 10 and 11 again recently after several years of shimano infidelity, but my conclusion is I feel fastest on the bikes that fit the best regardless of brand. and with attention to setup, they are all fitting within a couple mms of each other so really probably comes down to tire/wheel differences and slight aero advantages (e.g. riding in the drops); but we're talking fractions at this point. I will say from a tactile perspective, I'm enjoying the feedback provided by the campag shifters and the ergonomics of the hoods of 11 sp campy feels slightly better to me than shimano.

When the roads get gravelly and hilly, I definitely choose my hydro/Di2-equipped Zanc road32 so there is that. Around where I live tho, I've been enjoying campy 10 and 11 a lot lately. Not much compares to working the gears on a properly broken in campy shifter.

[R3awak3n]

I went from Chorus to Potenza. I miss the gear dump. Next go around will be Chorus. Hopefully, Campag implements self extracting cranks for that line up.

I thought potenza did indeed have self extracting cranks... or do you mean chorus?

[shinomaster]

Record 10 cranks and potenza shifters and derailleurs.

[sailorboy]

Record 10 cranks and potenza shifters and derailleurs.

Ultra-torque or square taper? I don't know if it's my imagination, but a set of UT bearings on the 11 speed cranks I've been riding the past week or so feel noticeably smoother than the sq taper campy or shimano on my zanc...of course that could mean its time to replace my other BB cups.

[tbike4]

Ultra-torque or square taper?

?? Inquiring minds and all.

[R3awak3n]

unpopular opinion, not a fan of square taper

[p nut]

I thought potenza did indeed have self extracting cranks... or do you mean chorus?

Potenza does. It is great. Wish Chorus/Record had a similar system.

[shinomaster]

SOmething like this. The ceramic bearings on my 11 speed cranks are wicked smooth, but on an old bike I don't think it matters.

[choke]

For me, it would be 10 speed every time.....though Chorus or Centaur since I'm not a fan of carbon fiber bits. I have one 11sp bike and I prefer the 10sp hoods.

[Clean39T]

How much lighter is a complete ‘17 Record 11 groupset than ‘08 Record 10?

[sailorboy]

SOmething like this. The ceramic bearings on my 11 speed cranks are wicked smooth, but on an old bike I don't think it matters.

Fair enough...I guess it may depend on your goals with the finished product. I agree that if I'm building up a project for the 'way back machine' I'd go with sq. taper and as many shiny bits I could put on there and never think twice.

[colker]

SOmething like this. The ceramic bearings on my 11 speed cranks are wicked smooth, but on an old bike I don't think it matters.


Record 10 q taper BB is sealed, maintenance free.
Can anyone keep count on how many threads were posted this year only about gritty campy 11 BB w/ shot bearings etc etc etc?

[jpritchet74]

10 Speed Record is the finest groupset ever made. I recently upgraded my main bike from 11 speed Record EPS to 10 Speed Record and I am SO happy with the upgrade. I also made my cross bike 10 Speed Record and my new climbing bike will be 10 speed Record.

[C40_guy]

Btw... i have seen new record 10 shifters selling in shops on line. New derrailleurs as well. Not cheap. But it lasts.

I snagged a pair of NOS Campy Record 10 Ultra shifters last year, from a real brick and mortar bike shop, for $229.

All my bikes are Record 10, square taper, most are compact. With more than a couple of bikes...and wheelsets...it gets expensive...or complicated...to upgrade. Then you have to start remembering which wheelset is 10 versus 11.

And yes, the stuff lasts!

[FlashUNC]

Record 10 q taper BB is sealed, maintenance free.
Can anyone keep count on how many threads were posted this year only about gritty campy 11 BB w/ shot bearings etc etc etc?

Hah. That's a good one. Square taper is anything but maintenance free.

[shinomaster]

Hah. That's a good one. Square taper is anything but maintenance free.

I've never worn out a campy 10 square taper bb.

[thwart]

Record 10, all day.

... beeatnik, I like your style.

For me, the feel of 10 speed is the epitome.

Outweighs the ability to run Shimano cassettes on 11 speed.

But... 10 speed alloy Chorus would look gorgeous.

[colker]

Hah. That's a good one. Square taper is anything but maintenance free.

10sp era BB is sealed.

[FlashUNC]

10sp era BB is sealed.

Sure.

[chrisroph]

I've never worn out a campy 10 square taper bb.

Oh I have.

[duff_duffy]

My vote: 10 speed record

[Clean39T]

I didn't realize how much I like 10 spd Campy until I got it on my Ellis. I'd gravitated to all 11 spd Chorus and above late last year and figured the 10 spd ergos weren't as good a fit for my big paws.. But I think that more had to do with the bars I was using them on. Now that I've got the 10 spd on my Ellis, which has modern bend Nitto's on it, I'm loving the shape and feel. Plus, 10 spd is just easier to set up - easier to feed cables, more margin for error, and it sounds better too. It's a bit early to say I'm a full convert, but I think I'm headed that way. Just picked up a very nice condition group off the Bay today in fact :cool:

[Cicli]

I thought potenza did indeed have self extracting cranks... or do you mean chorus?

Potenza does. It is great. Wish Chorus/Record had a similar system.

Are you talking Powertorque?
If you all are, its dead so no need to hope it moves across the line.

[R3awak3n]

Are you talking Powertorque?
If you all are, its dead so no need to hope it moves across the line.


PT is not dead. New PT has self extracting bolts (on potenza and centaur) which makes PT really not that bad.

[raisinberry777]

PT is not dead. New PT has self extracting bolts (on potenza and centaur) which makes PT really not that bad.

Potenza and Centaur are both UT for 2018. Potenza PT had the self-extracting bolt until this year when it moved to UT. The four-arm Centaur cranks have always been UT.

[oldpotatoe]

I had one Campy equipped bike about 6 years ago. It had 10 speed Chorus with aluminum crank and bits except the shifters. Did not like the frame so the bike went away. I have a frame incoming and I think it needs silver Campy bits. It'a a Colnago Master with pretty wild paint.

I can get a Record 10 speed group that is silver except the shifters or go with new silver Potenza. Any opinions? Or tell me who cares and I will go with dark 11 speed Shimano.

Do Potenza..nice stuff.

[R3awak3n]

Potenza and Centaur are both UT for 2018. Potenza PT had the self-extracting bolt until this year when it moved to UT. The four-arm Centaur cranks have always been UT.

I stand corrected then.

Thats cool.

[oldpotatoe]

11 speed all day.

here's why:

you can use shimano splined wheels and 5800 cassettes.

campy-10 was nice stuff, but it's all old and out of production. if you break a shifter, you're stuck scouring ebay for what you need, and you're tied to campy wheels and cassettes. there is much more versatility for the 11-sp sector.

IMO.

Not really. Campag still makes all the shifter bits for 10s Record/Chorus/Centaur/Daytona, etc..and I'll fix it for ya. :)11s 'stuff, like ders, cranks, etc compatible with 10s shifters..Campag 10s cogsets still made, chains are everywhere so...but I also say do the Potenza.

[oldpotatoe]

I went from Chorus to Potenza. I miss the gear dump. Next go around will be Chorus. Hopefully, Campag implements self extracting cranks for that line up.

Potenza now UltraTorque...previous gen, Powertorque, did have self extractor. First gen did not.

[R3awak3n]

I just got a set of potenza hydraulic shifters and calipers. No joke old potato, it is indeed very nice. The shifters feel grear, the droopy button is awesome. Of course I have some complaints. Brake caliper is matte and looks cheap. I understand on potenza but in h11?!? $500 per lever and that caliper leaves me puzzled. I am totally ok with it as I paid $170 per side.

Also wish the graphics just said potenza and did not have a matte grippy stripe theough it. Ill be getting the fd and rd soon but they also look very nice. I love multi dump but I had athena before and it was fine. The thing that I disliked more was the feel of shifting the fd. It still shifted excellent but felt weird compared to UT with its trimming.


For disc brake people right now, potenza is a crazy deal on merlin. For $550 you get everything but the cranks. Thats Bout the same price as r8000 levers and calipers

[54ny77]

I tried really hard to like Potenza for a build I am.working on, but short of having it spiffed up (polished) and pantographed, the stuff just looks like the low end of the product line that it is. And that crank.....yuck (I feel the same.way about Super Record also, it's the design I don't like). Personal opinion on aesthetics aside, it works very well and is a great value, as are most modern groups. These days it's pretty much splitting hairs, Ford vs. Chevy type arguments.

Record 10 spd all the way. Or Athena NOS parts if you have the time to search em out (which is what I ended up doing, the irony there being I think Athena was the low end of the product line in its era also). I like the aesthetics of it better than Potenza, however.

I was working with a couple painters to spray prior vintage campy super record (carbon) with special chrome paint, but it was tough to get the sheen down to a "satin" anodised finish, and there was the little detail of the factory chainring finish being visually off as well. Looked weird. I'm obsessed with silver parts, in case you can't tell....

[oldpotatoe]

I tried really hard to like Potenza for a build I am.working on, but short of having it spiffed up (polished) and pantographed, the stuff just looks like the low end of the product line that it is. And that crank.....yuck (I feel the same.way about Super Record also, it's the design I don't like). Personal opinion on aesthetics aside, it works very well and is a great value, as are most modern groups. These days it's pretty much splitting hairs, Ford vs. Chevy type arguments.

Record 10 spd all the way. Or Athena NOS parts if you have the time to search em out (which is what I ended up doing, the irony there being I think Athena was the low end of the product line in its era also). I like the aesthetics of it better than Potenza, however.

Can't have this subjective discussion w/o mentioned the other 4 arm crank..not pretty, IMHO..the 8000 one..apples to apples, IMHO

[exapkib]

A few years back I switched from Dura Ace 7700 to Chorus 10. Shortly thereafter, I moved from SRAM Force (10 speed) to Chorus 11 on my second bike. My experiences line up with many of the opinions expressed here:

--Functionally, both groups are incredible.
--Cross-compatibility with 11-speed Shim/SRAM wheels, cassettes, and chains has proven a bigger asset than I would have guessed.
--I love the solid feel and relative simplicity of the 10-speed Chorus.
--Visually, Chorus 10 fits so much better on classic steel.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/813/41470876832_5b62fa1e1f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26bD5RN)

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/869/27948321658_a2832f9023_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/JzGsjN)

[jamesdak]

Not really. Campag still makes all the shifter bits for 10s Record/Chorus/Centaur/Daytona, etc..and I'll fix it for ya. :)11s 'stuff, like ders, cranks, etc compatible with 10s shifters..Campag 10s cogsets still made, chains are everywhere so...but I also say do the Potenza.

Hmmm, I may take you up on that myself. ;) The 8 speed Chorus on my Serotta CSI is really stiff. Thinking either housing or shifters gummed up from age....or both....

[colker]

Athena or Potenza silver is not Record silver..
If anyone is dragged by visuals of a classic silver group, Potenza is a parody of silver Record.

I say go w/ black Chorus and move on w/ the times or stay w/ Record 10sp.

Nothing wrong w/ black (although full black bicycles look sad but that´s just my opinion).

[jamesdak]

I'm voting for the silver 10 speed Record too.

I'd love to score a set to upgrade my 8 speed Chorus setup on my Greg Lemond Maillot Jaune which is always ghost shifting under power.

[colker]

--Visually, Chorus 10 fits so much better on classic steel.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/813/41470876832_5b62fa1e1f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26bD5RN)



Chorus group and record crankset which is absolutely beautifull. The end of an era. It needs a record titanium seatpost.

[oldpotatoe]

Hmmm, I may take you up on that myself. ;) The 8 speed Chorus on my Serotta CSI is really stiff. Thinking either housing or shifters gummed up from age....or both....

Detach the cable and shift thru while pulling on cable..probably housing/innerwire/BB guide type stuff. Shifters get looser, not stiffer, as they get older. Noting 'ghost shifting under power', methinks new springs, maybe spring carrier.

[tbike4]

It's a bit early to say I'm a full convert, but I think I'm headed that way. Just picked up a very nice condition group off the Bay today in fact :cool:

Is that why the 10 speed Record group I was watching is now "out of stock"?
This whole decision may boil down to hubs/rims/cassettes. I have a couple of 11 speed wheel sets that are black and would look pretty good on the frame but... I was in the shop yesterday and saw a wheel set- Silver Record hubs/silver Open Pros that did look very nice.

[jamesdak]

Detach the cable and shift thru while pulling on cable..probably housing/innerwire/BB guide type stuff. Shifters get looser, not stiffer, as they get older. Noting 'ghost shifting under power', methinks new springs, maybe spring carrier.

I'm with you, new housings is the first step. Just a matter of getting to it with all these bikes, LOL!

I actually did replace the g springs in the DT shifters on the other bike. The carrier looked great and this bike has seen little use. But yeah, I need to source and try that. I'm just sorta looking for a reason to upgrade that one. It's been my fastest mid range bike even though I can't really hammer on it.

Now to find the part. SL-RE019 is not as easy to find as the springs...

[Clean39T]

Is that why the 10 speed Record group I was watching is now "out of stock"?




Probably. The one w the ErgoBrain? Shot them an offer and they didn’t refuse...

[thwart]

Is that why the 10 speed Record group I was watching is now "out of stock"?
This whole decision may boil down to hubs/rims/cassettes. I have a couple of 11 speed wheel sets that are black and would look pretty good on the frame but... I was in the shop yesterday and saw a wheel set- Silver Record hubs/silver Open Pros that did look very nice.

Nowadays, due to the popularity of wide rims, those classic Mavic Open Pro/silver Record (or Chorus) wheels are cheap. And unlike Shimano, those classic Campy hubs can run 9/10/11 (and likely 12 speed) as well.

And if the look works for you but you really want to run wider, the polished H+Son TB14 is a great choice.

[tbike4]

Probably. The one w the ErgoBrain? Shot them an offer and they didn’t refuse...

Yep, the one with the brain and the 177.5mm extra crank. Nice score.

[Spaghetti Legs]

I'm gonna call and raise here with a Campy Record 8 vote, especially if you don't need a compact set up. Easy set up, rock solid reliable. I have one bike with white label Super Record 11 and 3 or 4 with Record/Chorus 10 and don't have a strong preference between those 2.


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4476/26313891549_e150807bd9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/G6gzck)fullsizeoutput_3616
[url=https://flic.kr/p/245D155]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4675/40090248212_c7b484b905_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/G6gzck)[url=https://flic.kr/p/245D155]IMG_2505

[54ny77]

NICE!!!! :cool:


I'm gonna call and raise here with a Campy Record 8 vote, especially if you don't need a compact set up. Easy set up, rock solid reliable. I have one bike with white label Super Record 11 and 3 or 4 with Record/Chorus 10 and don't have a strong preference between those 2.


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4476/26313891549_e150807bd9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/G6gzck)fullsizeoutput_3616
[url=https://flic.kr/p/245D155]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4675/40090248212_c7b484b905_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/G6gzck)[url=https://flic.kr/p/245D155]IMG_2505

[54ny77]

No argument from me there. Shimano, Campy...they all hired designers from the Transformer Cartoon School of Design.

:bike:

I have enough 10 spd spare parts of the stuff I like/need to last me a decade.

Can't have this subjective discussion w/o mentioned the other 4 arm crank..not pretty, IMHO..the 8000 one..apples to apples, IMHO

[54ny77]

Yes! I have 2 sets of them and they are great rims/wheels. Paired with Veloflex or Vittoria tan sidewall tires.....it's a nice visual combo. The ride is plush.

Nowadays, due to the popularity of wide rims, those classic Mavic Open Pro/silver Record (or Chorus) wheels are cheap. And unlike Shimano, those classic Campy hubs can run 9/10/11 (and likely 12 speed) as well.

And if the look works for you but you really want to run wider, the polished H+Son TB14 is a great choice.

[Clean39T]

I'm gonna call and raise here with a Campy Record 8 vote, especially if you don't need a compact set up. Easy set up, rock solid reliable. I have one bike with white label Super Record 11 and 3 or 4 with Record/Chorus 10 and don't have a strong preference between those 2.


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4476/26313891549_e150807bd9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/G6gzck)fullsizeoutput_3616
[url=https://flic.kr/p/245D155]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4675/40090248212_c7b484b905_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/G6gzck)[url=https://flic.kr/p/245D155]IMG_2505

I've never ridden (at least not in the last twenty years that I remember) those 8spd Campy Ergos...need to get me something with them on it...just for tryin's sake...

[oldpotatoe]

I've never ridden (at least not in the last twenty years that I remember) those 8spd Campy Ergos...need to get me something with them on it...just for tryin's sake...

I think the 'best' ERGO years were 1995/6 (8s) then 1997 (9s) in terms of shape. Newer 1998 not bad but I preferred older shape.

[p nut]

Chorus group and record crankset which is absolutely beautifull. The end of an era. It needs a record titanium seatpost.

But those DH flat pedals really set it off. :D

Great, now you guys are making me window shop Record 10 parts. I do like Sq Taper B.B. Nice and simple. And I do love the aesthetics on the cranks as well. Much better than my Potenza.

[54ny77]

this forum can be such an enabler sometimes.....:p

(After reading this thread, I went to ebay looking for another 172.5 Athena silver crank and chainrings to hoard for the future, nothing in NOS or even nice used that is 34/50 compact...)



Great, now you guys are making me window shop Record 10 parts.

[colker]

I think the 'best' ERGO years were 1995/6 (8s) then 1997 (9s) in terms of shape. Newer 1998 not bad but I preferred older shape.

C record shapes. Best looking campagnolo group ever.

[rwsaunders]

https://i.imgur.com/kOaemROh.jpg

I feel the need for (ten) speed.

[colker]

https://i.imgur.com/kOaemROh.jpg

I feel the need for (ten) speed.

Not easy to find that crankset. Everybody talks about aluminium but that record 10sp carbon crankset is perfect in my book.

[rwsaunders]

You’re darn right on that crank and it took me even longer to locate a 36t inner ring for it. Mates really well with a 13/29 cassette too.

[exapkib]

But those DH flat pedals really set it off. :D

Great, now you guys are making me window shop Record 10 parts. I do like Sq Taper B.B. Nice and simple. And I do love the aesthetics on the cranks as well. Much better than my Potenza.

Ha! I was sure somebody would comment on the pedals!

Don't you know that mixed-surface riding is all the rage these days? Nothing keeps you sharp like taking a Yamaguchi off road.

(In reality, the pedals have more to do with the amount of riding I was doing in dress shoes those days.)

In all seriousness, I'm firmly convinced that there's a reason there will always be a market for the 9- and 10-speed Campy stuff. It works so well, looks so good, and just feels so right.

[shinomaster]

Can't have this subjective discussion w/o mentioned the other 4 arm crank..not pretty, IMHO..the 8000 one..apples to apples, IMHO

Still, it's the heaviest boat anchor on the market, and a dumb design and uglier than it needs to be. Athena cranks were lighter and prettier.

[colker]

Still, it's the heaviest boat anchor on the market, and a dumb design and uglier than it needs to be. Athena cranks were lighter and prettier.

Chorus is the group to have when it comes to Campagnolo 11.
It´s black... deal w/ it.

[shinomaster]

It´s black... deal w/ it.

?

[oldpotatoe]

Still, it's the heaviest boat anchor on the market, and a dumb design and uglier than it needs to be. Athena cranks were lighter and prettier.

Big sigh and once more, one ‘bcd’ for a variety of chainrings, 34-56....not dumb design, imho. And heavier by how much? 2-3 powerbars...reality, what a concept.

[DrSpoke]

No recommendation really but I've always been w/Campagnolo for my road only bikes starting w/Nuovo Record on my '76 Alan Super Record. Other than NR, I have 2017 Super Record 11 on my carbon bike, Mid-00s Record 10 is unused after being removed from my carbon bike, '02 Daytona 10 w/Record crankset on my Cinelli Supercorsa after removing it from a Serotta Concours and Chorus 8 on a Serotta Atlanta. I think the Italian steel frames look best w/silver components but I am rather old school. The Daytona 10 groupset has seen the most miles and basically has been bullet proof, hasn't skipped a beat in 16 years and still performs like new. Good stuff.

[shinomaster]

Big sigh and once more, one ‘bcd’ for a variety of chainrings, 34-56....not dumb design, imho. And heavier by how much? 2-3 powerbars...reality, what a concept.


Yeah I get that, the design/shape is great in carbon as it was originally designed. I have 2015 record 11 cranks and they're fantastic. Trying to force aluminum into the exact same shape doesn't really make sense. I'm glad they still have a silver group, and I'm tempted to try it on one of my bikes. I wish they just tried a little harder with the cranks. Trying to get two different crowds (OEM new bike people) and retro-old guys, to like the same aluminum crank design in black and silver is maybe not possible evidenced by the scramble to collect Athena/Veloce parts. Also, new chain rings are hundreds of dollars; how often do people switch them out? It's cheaper to just buy a new crank!

[tbike4]

Athena 11 looks awfully nice. Not sure if this frame has all Athena or not. It's not made anymore unless I am mistaken. I see shinomaster mentions folks hoarding it. I can't find a group set and piecing it together is about $650 without chain or cassette.

[ultraman6970]

U guys havent seen my concorde with potenza silver yet :D

[tbike4]

U guys havent seen my concorde with potenza silver yet :D

Can you press the magic button and make it appear?

[colker]

Athena 11 looks awfully nice. Not sure if this frame has all Athena or not. It's not made anymore unless I am mistaken. I see shinomaster mentions folks hoarding it. I can't find a group set and piecing it together is about $650 without chain or cassette.

Frame is 2 or 3 sizes too small. That set up is wrong.

[colker]

?

Op wants silver Campagnolo. His choice of Potenza is all about the silver. Just go w/ Chorus and if it´s black it´s black.

[shinomaster]

U guys havent seen my concorde with potenza silver yet :D

I do want to see this too. fwiw I love this Vagen.

[jamesdak]

Frame is 2 or 3 sizes too small. That set up is wrong.

I'd ride that all day long! :banana:

[cadence90]

I think Campagnolo cranksets in silver are really beautiful in 5-arm, and really ugly in 4-arm, whatever the level/speed/year.

The silver 4-arm Potenza looks bad/inelegant on that blue SV a couple of posts above.
The silver 5-arm Athena, Chorus, Record, further up...all look great.

Imo.
.

[colker]

I'd ride that all day long! :banana:


One thing is Michelle Bartoli on a bike that´s too small w/a slammed and looong stem i. It shows the rider has loads of flexibility due to loads of miles under his legs.
Another is a bike w/ loads of seatpost showing and loads of spacers under the stem. It shows a wrong size and wrong fit.. That rider will end up buying 30 bikes and dislike all of them since they are all the wrong size.
There are fit/sizing formulas for a reason.
Btw... Beeatnik has a good story on Colnago and fit. A buddy of Beeatnik was comfortable and fast on 56cm Colnagos but left a fitting session w/ Ernesto on a 58cm.

[colker]

The silver 4-arm Potenza looks bad/inelegant on that blue SV a couple of posts above.

.

What´s a budget group like Potenza doing on a 4k frame?

[R3awak3n]

What´s a budget group like Potenza doing on a 4k frame?

because he wanted to go all silver... also because it works as well as a group that costs twice as much.

that said, I think that bike would have looked 100% better with all black components

[cadence90]

What´s a budget group like Potenza doing on a 4k frame?

To each their own, I guess, and I don't know the reason.

My post above wasn't about gruppo cost relative to frame cost, but only about my feelings regarding the aesthetics of the Campa silver 4-arm cranksets, which I think look bad on any frame, $$ or $$$$.
.

[colker]

To each their own, I guess, and I don't know the reason.

My post above wasn't about gruppo cost relative to frame cost, but only about my feelings regarding the aesthetics of the Campa silver 4-arm cranksets, which I think look bad on any frame, $$ or $$$$.
.

Forget silver when it comes to new bike parts. Go black.
If you want the vintage vibe go vintage.

[cadence90]

Forget silver when it comes to new bike parts. Go black.
If you want the vintage vibe go vintage.

Agree 100%.

And...gumwalls...never, regardless. :no:
.

[shinomaster]

I really want one of these now.

[colker]

I really want one of these now.

The C record crankset has a similar brutal but full of curve look. It is beautifull. It was the stiffest crank of it´s time. Pure class.

[cadence90]

I really want one of these now.

The C record crankset has a similar brutal but full of curve look. It is beautifull. It was the stiffest crank of it´s time. Pure class.

Both beautiful. C-Record was indeed super.

Some might not find my Centaur crankset (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=200382) quite as elegant, but if someone has a buffing wheel...could be a good project.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697954981&stc=1&d=1518820608
.

[colker]

Both beautiful. C-Record was indeed super.

Some might not find my Euclid crankset (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=200382) quite as elegant, but if someone has a buffing wheel...could be a good project.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697954981&stc=1&d=1518820608
.

The shield logo is so cool.

[shinomaster]

I woke up to this one in my FB feed. It’s kind of awesome I guess..

[shinomaster]

The C record crankset has a similar brutal but full of curve look. It is beautifull. It was the stiffest crank of it´s time. Pure class.

To me, the C-record crank is the most beautiful and elegant of all, and not particularly brutal. That's an interesting choice of words. There is an architectural style called brutalism, and it's quite different looking. Boston city hall is a quintessential work. I think the New 4 arm Campy cranks are brutal looking, not unlike medieval weapons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalist_architecture

[oldpotatoe]

Yeah I get that, the design/shape is great in carbon as it was originally designed. I have 2015 record 11 cranks and they're fantastic. Trying to force aluminum into the exact same shape doesn't really make sense. I'm glad they still have a silver group, and I'm tempted to try it on one of my bikes. I wish they just tried a little harder with the cranks. Trying to get two different crowds (OEM new bike people) and retro-old guys, to like the same aluminum crank design in black and silver is maybe not possible evidenced by the scramble to collect Athena/Veloce parts. Also, new chain rings are hundreds of dollars; how often do people switch them out? It's cheaper to just buy a new crank!

Nope..:)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-Potenza-Chainrings-set-50-34T-11S-Black-groupset-colnago-tommasini/152999669004?hash=item239f7dad0c:g:TjMAAOSwKMRa4xe h

[jamesdak]

One thing is Michelle Bartoli on a bike that´s too small w/a slammed and looong stem i. It shows the rider has loads of flexibility due to loads of miles under his legs.
Another is a bike w/ loads of seatpost showing and loads of spacers under the stem. It shows a wrong size and wrong fit.. That rider will end up buying 30 bikes and dislike all of them since they are all the wrong size.
There are fit/sizing formulas for a reason.
Btw... Beeatnik has a good story on Colnago and fit. A buddy of Beeatnik was comfortable and fast on 56cm Colnagos but left a fitting session w/ Ernesto on a 58cm.

That is such B.S. I ride bikes from 53 CM to 56 CM. Heck I even have a 57 that's converted to 650b. They all have the same fit save maybe an inch difference in the saddle to bar drop here and there. But I love the ride of each bike I have. If something doesn't feel right on the road I move it on.

Who cares what the "rules" say? :no: It's the totally characteristics of how the bike is built up that effect how it feels and works under you. Not just what size frame it is. Gotta love the purist who think their way is the only right way!

My smallest frame.....too bad it's "too small" for me because I quite like the ride.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/167148415.jpg

Another small one. Sold to me by a guy a couple of inches shorter than me that said this was too small for him. Pure magic under me out on the road.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166363859.jpg

Two different sized Ironmans. OMG, the world is going to end! :eek:

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166799413.jpg

And no way this 53cm Lemond can work for me...

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/163817826.jpg

...or a 54cm.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/163655066.jpg

When I should be on a 55cm...

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166875346.jpg

...or a 56cm.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166790982.jpg

Amazing that I'm still alive to confess to all of this.

[tbike4]

Amazing that I'm still alive to confess to all of this.

Indeed. I like these wheels> What are the rims?

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE]Gotta love the purist who think their way is the only right way!

Reminds me of a story when Colnago and DeRosa were only making metal bikes. A look at a '58' and they were opposite sides of the fit bell curve, seat tube angle and top tube length-wise. DeRosa slacker and longer BUT...conversations with Ernesto and Ugo..each claimed their geometry was absolutely the 'right one'...:)

[jamesdak]

[QUOTE=jamesdak;2374428]


Reminds me of a story when Colnago and DeRosa were only making metal bikes. A look at a '58' and they were opposite sides of the fit bell curve, seat tube angle and top tube length-wise. DeRosa slacker and longer BUT...conversations with Ernesto and Ugo..each claimed their geometry was absolutely the 'right one'...:)


LOL, yep. I'm no expert of course. I just ride bikes and know what I like a bike to feel like under me. I don't get all caught up in size, geometry, etc. :)

[OtayBW]

BUT...conversations with Ernesto and Ugo..each claimed their geometry was absolutely the 'right one'...:)They were correct! :banana:

[colker]

Gotta love the purist who think their way is the only right way!



.. because we are all rebels here. Never following rules.
Don´t care what anyone thinks vibe. Don´t need approval types. We do what we do.

And then i see the same bikes posted over and over and over and the same threads asking "what should i do so i look just like you... on undersized bikes".

Cool.

[colker]

[QUOTE=oldpotatoe;2374433]


LOL, yep. I don't get all caught up in size, geometry, etc. :)

Oozing coolness. Right.

Others do get caught up in size and geometry paying thousands of dollars to custom fitters. I see it all day on line.
I find undersized bikes ugly but most of all what´s the function? It does not work any better. It´s just vanity turned upside down.

[jamesdak]

[QUOTE=jamesdak;2374436]

Oozing coolness. Right.

Others do get caught up in size and geometry paying thousands of dollars to custom fitters. I see it all day on line.
I find undersized bikes ugly but most of all what´s the function? It does not work any better. It´s just vanity turned upside down.

Vanity, LOL....ok....:rolleyes:

For one try economics turned right side up. If I can find a high quality used steel bike locally for a really sweet price why wouldn't I get it if I can make it fit? What are the keys to fit? Saddle height, seat setback, handlebar reach, etc all in relation to the BB. If I can take the exact same measurements from my original "pro" fit and apply them to multiple bikes what's the deal?

Heck I have totally screwed knees and lower back which is why I stopped running and took up cycling. Fit is paramount to me riding without pain yet it's really not an issue on a wide range of bikes. The biggest issue is making sure I can get enough saddle setback for my longer femurs to keep my knees happy.

And I can say that looking over my daily bike logs for the last 30,000 miles or so, size ain't mattering.

And those paying thousands for fit might be happier if they just went out and rode. :banana:

Anyway, cool, uncool, right, wrong, whatever...I'm going riding. I'll let others worry about being right on frame size. :p

Still voting 10 Speed Record to keep this on track. :)

[shinomaster]

Nope..:)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-Potenza-Chainrings-set-50-34T-11S-Black-groupset-colnago-tommasini/152999669004?hash=item239f7dad0c:g:TjMAAOSwKMRa4xe h

Hey thanks amigo! That's a great deal ( much more in a shop however). :D I did find some other companies making rings, I'm tempted to get a 48. Don't get me wrong, I like the four arm concept. I went to art school so aesthetics are unusually important to me..
http://www.wiggle.com/ta-x145-campagnolo-11-speed-48t-outer-chainring/

[choke]

What´s a budget group like Potenza doing on a 4k frame?

Forget silver when it comes to new bike parts. Go black.
If you want the vintage vibe go vintage.In my world the only acceptable color for derailleurs, cranks, etc. is silver and the only acceptable material is alloy. I purchased a Pegoretti with Chorus 11 on it and removed all the black /carbon parts and replaced them with Athena 11 (I did keep the Chorus Ergos so I could have have Ultrashift but changed the levers to silver alloy). Athena may be a 'budget group' but I can't tell a bit of difference in the way it functions and it certainly looks a whole lot better to my eyes.

[tbike4]

Athena may be a 'budget group' but I can't tell a bit of difference in the way it functions and it certainly looks a whole lot better to my eyes.

That is good to know. I am pretty sure the decision has been made now. 11 speed it is but the wheels might have Dura Ace hubs and a Shimano cassette. I guess when I can actually touch the frame- next Thursday the final answer will be implemented.

[choke]

Both beautiful. C-Record was indeed super.

Some might not find my Euclid crankset (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=200382) quite as elegant, but if someone has a buffing wheel...could be a good project.

[/COLOR]FYI that's not a Euclid crank, it's a Centaur. A Euclid crank has a raised area around the crank bolt hole similar to a 8sp Chorus crank.

If your crank was a 170mm I'd be all over it....I have the same crank on two different road bikes and I love it.

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=07D58D8E-4959-4518-BB3D-BB962F311912&Enum=115&AbsPos=15

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=A221A3C6-496B-40E6-8AE7-F65A4D1D66B8&Enum=115&AbsPos=22

[cadence90]

FYI that's not a Euclid crank, it's a Centaur. A Euclid crank has a raised area around the crank bolt hole similar to a 8sp Chorus crank.

If your crank was a 170mm I'd be all over it....I have the same crank on two different road bikes and I love it.

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=07D58D8E-4959-4518-BB3D-BB962F311912&Enum=115&AbsPos=15

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=A221A3C6-496B-40E6-8AE7-F65A4D1D66B8&Enum=115&AbsPos=22

Thanks for the info.

Definitely Centaur, not Euclid?
I bought it years ago on eBay, advertised as Euclid with one ring and two bash guards, but I never put that build together, etc. It is certainly entirely possible the seller was mistaken, and I certainly didn't/don't know better...vintage not being my thing at all.

Thanks again, appreciate it.
.

[choke]

Thanks for the info.

Definitely Centaur, not Euclid?
I bought it years ago on eBay, advertised as Euclid with one ring and two bash guards, but I never put that build together, etc. It is certainly entirely possible the seller was mistaken, and I certainly didn't/don't know better...vintage not being my thing at all.

Thanks again, appreciate it.
.You're welcome. I'm sure it's Centaur. I've seen a lot of Campy MTB cranks called Euclid that weren't over the years...it seems like most people have only heard of Record OR and Euclid and since they know it's not Record OR they call it Euclid instead.

This is a Euclid crank.....if you compare the area around the mounting bolt hole it's obvious that this crank isn't the same as yours.

http://scapin.ciocctoo.com/crank.jpg

[cadence90]

You're welcome. I'm sure it's Centaur. I've seen a lot of Campy MTB cranks called Euclid that weren't over the years...it seems like most people have only heard of Record OR and Euclid and since they know it's not Record OR they call it Euclid instead.

Got it; thanks very much.
I have revised my title/description to reflect your kind correction and lesson.

The (this) Centaur you linked to in your post #114 above definitely does look nicer, more elegant, than the Euclid, imo.

:beer:
.

[choke]

Got it; thanks very much.
I have revised my title/description to reflect your kind correction and lesson.

The (this) Centaur you linked to in your post #114 above definitely does look nicer, more elegant, than the Euclid, imo.

:beer:
.Welcome. The Centaur is a very nice looking crank IMO.....maybe this will help sell it, here's what it looks like with 34/50 rings.

http://hampco.ciocctoo.com/031816a.jpg

[colker]

Welcome. The Centaur is a very nice looking crank IMO.....maybe this will help sell it, here's what it looks like with 34/50 rings.

http://hampco.ciocctoo.com/031816a.jpg

Beautifull bike. Is this yours? Every part seems balanced and in harmony w/ each other. Love the cinelli ti stem.

[cadence90]

Welcome. The Centaur is a very nice looking crank IMO.....maybe this will help sell it, here's what it looks like with 34/50 rings.
Beautifull bike. Is this yours? Every part seems balanced and in harmony w/ each other. Love the cinelli ti stem.

Indeed. Fabulous bicycle. Very nice.
.

[choke]

Beautifull bike. Is this yours? Every part seems balanced and in harmony w/ each other. Love the cinelli ti stem.Thank you and yes, it is mine. While it's not obvious from the pic it has lugs rather than being Tig welded.

[colker]

Thank you and yes, it is mine. While it's not obvious from the pic it has lugs rather than being Tig welded.

Lugs are thinned. NIce. Very nice. Looks like a 53 or 54cm c-c w/ 120 stem.

[shinomaster]

Welcome. The Centaur is a very nice looking crank IMO.....maybe this will help sell it, here's what it looks like with 34/50 rings.

http://hampco.ciocctoo.com/031816a.jpg

I love green bikes.

[oldpotatoe]

[QUOTE=jamesdak;2374436]

Oozing coolness. Right.

Others do get caught up in size and geometry paying thousands of dollars to custom fitters. I see it all day on line.
I find undersized bikes ugly but most of all what´s the function? It does not work any better. It´s just vanity turned upside down.

I don't get all caught up in size, geometry, etc.

jamesdak wrote that not me.:)

[jamesdak]

[QUOTE=colker;2374463]



jamesdak wrote that not me.:)

Yeah, I'm the rebel! LOL!

In fact on some of my bikes the saddle and bartape don't match

[Bostic]

9 pages but only a few actual bikes with the full Silver Potenza groupset. I do wish the shifter paddles were not the resin material, that hurts the look in my humble opinion.

[Clean39T]

9 pages but only a few actual bikes with the full Silver Potenza groupset. I do wish the shifter paddles were not the resin material, that hurts the look in my humble opinion.


Indeed. My 10spd Veloce shifters look more better...

[R3awak3n]

Indeed. My 10spd Veloce shifters look more better...

they really do.

that said something to be said about the all silver... I never had the problem but some people complained about rattling.

[DCilliams]

I woke up to this one in my FB feed. It’s kind of awesome I guess..

A classic bike that likes cocaine and fast livin'

[jamesdak]

I built up my De Rosa with 11 speed black Chorus. At the time it was only $300 more than Potenza which was hard to find in silver anyway.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166363859.jpg

I wish like others, I had stockpiled the silver Athena. Cheap, works well, looks good, etc.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/164621709.jpg

The Chorus 10 speed setup I used for my Ironman can look pretty good on the right frame too if you can get your hands on one.

http://www.pbase.com/jhuddle/image/166799408.jpg

I really wish Campagnolo would do one high end, classic looking silver groupset. I think the demand is still there.

[beeatnik]

Hey James, here's my wrong sized bika with Potenza

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1746/28690957208_12ffa1f461_b.jpg

I prefer Potenza cranks over Athena
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1722/42564402641_ac882fdb32_b.jpg

Same with the RD
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1737/42564403941_caf902f25c_b.jpg

"You can drive a car with your feet; it don't make it a good...idea." -Chris Rock
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4005/35619354032_319221e50f_b.jpg

[shinomaster]

Hey James, here's my wrong sized bika with Potenza


"You can drive a car with your feet; it don't make it a good...idea." -Chris Rock
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4005/35619354032_319221e50f_b.jpg


Looks good, imho it looks best on modern bikes, not late 80's examples. You need a longer stem.

[jamesdak]

Hey James, here's my wrong sized bika with Potenza

"You can drive a car with your feet; it don't make it a good...idea." -Chris Rock
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4005/35619354032_319221e50f_b.jpg


I'm digging it! :banana:

Hey what bars are those, that's a real compact drop there. I like 'em!

[beeatnik]

Looks good, imho it looks best on modern bikes, not late 80's examples. You need a longer stem.

Bike was built for my wife who is 6 inches shorter so there was a 90 on there when I took the flicka. Max I can go with current housing is 110 (stem in the other fotos is 100 or 110).

I agree that Potenza looks better on modern steel frames.

I'm digging it! :banana:

Hey what bars are those, that's a real compact drop there. I like 'em!

FSA Omega Compact. I dig them but they make the bike even smaller.

[OtayBW]

IMO - best deal for an 80-90s steel is to find a silver Centaur 10-spd group and blammo - your golden! (so to speak).

[R3awak3n]

honestly the worst part of potenza is that they went with 2 finishes in the silver. Silver and some sort of grainy textured silver

[beeatnik]

honestly the worst part of potenza is that they went with 2 finishes in the silver. Silver and some sort of grainy textured silver

I like the matte/sateen stripe. It makes the shiny aluminum look polished. Nowhere near as nice as a c-record era hub but shiny.

[ultraman6970]

Silver, black satin and chrome, killer combination.