Bike thief beat up by bike owner

[Veloo]

Glad he got his ass kicked.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/05/toronto-cyclist-beats-suspected-bike-thief-outside-restaurant/

[73Bronco]

Hell yeah!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[cadence90]

Glad he got his ass kicked.

Hell yeah!
Yeah, because defending a damned bicycle is really so worth beating up another person, using a blunt-force deadly weapon and sending him to the hospital at the very least...and then crowing about it all on the internet is just so very cool.

:rolleyes:.:rolleyes:.:rolleyes:

Insane.
.

[ultraman6970]

A knife sharpener... the idiot should have been gone at the time the dude got the tool out, he got lucky he did not get stabbed with it.

That would have happened in my country all the people of that restaurant would have run behind the idiot, catch him, beat the shatz out of him, and then tie him naked in corner traffic light. Probably nobody was going to call till next day.

At that point next day when the po-po shows up to untie him, nobody was going to believe his story, less recognize he was trying to steal somebody.

Seen suckers being throw off buses while going 30 mph, after they got caught pick pocketing to the passengers. Open the door and there you have it... fly!!! amazingly they stand up :D

[charliedid]

Violence is the answer.

[rwsaunders]

Yeah, because defending a damned bicycle is really so worth beating up another person, using a blunt-force deadly weapon and sending him to the hospital at the very least...and then crowing about it all on the internet is just so very cool.

:rolleyes:.:rolleyes:.:rolleyes:

Insane.
.

Read a little deeper...the bike owner struck the perp with a deadly weapon as when confronted, the perp pulled out a knife. When a weapon is drawn, all bets are off and the bike owner is fortunate enough that he wasn't stabbed during the event. No pity for the perp from me.

[Kontact]

I certainly don't pity the thief who decided to go from petty theft to attempted murder for a bicycle. But there is a point where the celebration of violence in the name of "justice" gets a little gross. It's just a bike.

[cadence90]

Read a little deeper...the bike owner struck the perp with a deadly weapon as when confronted, the perp pulled out a knife. When a weapon is drawn, all bets are off and the bike owner is fortunate enough that he wasn't stabbed during the event. No pity for the perp from me.

Oh, jeezus, please spare me the escalated-violence/vengeance-justifications. I DID read the story, therefore my comment. BOTH weapons involved were deadly.

Is the bicycle owner some kind of macho-hero because he went all Rambo on someone trying to steal his bicycle?

If the bicycle owner had killed the thief, or has caused brain damage as things stand now, would that be adequate recompense, in your opinion, in some wonderful wild west vigilante world, just because some sap tried to steal a damned bicycle?

The insanity that people think is OK is baffling.
I don't pity the thief at all.
I think that to heroicize the owner is idiotic.
.

[rwsaunders]

^ I don’t recall writing that I believe that the bike owner is a hero nor did I write that his actions were justified as related to an act of vengeance. I recall writing that he’s lucky that he wasn’t stabbed after a knife was drawn and that I don’t feel badly for the perp. Chill out dude...it’s a holiday weekend.

[jamesdak]

I think it is 100% OK for the owner to act like he did.

[Seramount]

sometimes being a low-life criminal has serious repercussions.

might be something for them to think about before acting...

[Cicli]

Stealing my bikes will get you lead poisoning.

[54ny77]

sounds rough, but have you ever seen shimano-parts-on-italian-frame violence? now that's rough.

[Cicli]

sounds rough, but have you ever seen shimano-parts-on-italian-frame violence? now that's rough.

sHram on an Italian frame is worse. Or a chinese frame, or American or............... :fight:

[William]

sometimes being a low-life criminal has serious repercussions.

might be something for them to think about before acting...

:)




William

[ultraman6970]

Remember many many years ago, at the gym from my countrie's olympic federation, the cyclist federation shop was in a building next to it, they shared the same small parking lot...

We heard only a beeping from one of the car's alarms, then somebody running, we heard a voice that looked like the atletic federation Kinesiologist... we went out side and the doctor which was maybe in his 60's jumping like monkey over a dude's back... was so terrible that was darn funny to watch.

Basically we had to take the perp off the doctors hands or he was going to kill him, the best could happen is that he was going f...k his back so he remembered that day forever. So we brought the dude to our building for interrogation... the usual BS... another guy tried to get into the doctor's car, that he was there waiting for the bus, yeah the only one at the bus stop... blah blah, meanwhile the master builder just like "uncle buck," started playing with the oxy-acetylene torch and making weird crazy faces and comments (funny as hell let me tell you) while at the same time preparing the frame table for surgery :D I started cleaning the table with some alcohol and gathering the saws, files and buckets, while one of the mechanics closed the door with a padlock. At the same time told the dude... hey, this is it man... do you have an address to send your hands later by mail??? The Doctor here is going to stitch you really well!!... he started peeing and crying and begging for his life...

Perp confessed right there... we let him go but no before the doctor gave him a kick in the ass so big that the mofo went airborne just like a movie and hit his head with a 3 meters tall 80 y/o door and running he went...

2 days later we found a knife this mofo was carrying under one of the tables in the shop, sharp as a scalpel... we used it to open tubulars, that sharp.

We never saw him again... my country people is so tired of those people that cops pretty much have to get them off the hands of the people and take them straight to the hospital, if you have been robbed at some point you will put all that bad vibe in the dude that was caught. Usually they are in the street next day or they scape from the hospital... you dont help yourself nobody will do and honestly cops are so loaded with work that a bicycle or a watch is not priority for them.

[monkeybanana86]

Ultra, I have to ask. Where is your country? JP?

[Ronsonic]

"Men are not hanged for stealing horses, but that horses may not be stolen."
George Savile

[providence]

If you’re going to pull a knife/weapon on me for my bike/any possessions, you can have it. And I like my stuffs.

Ya, it’s cute that a thief got what’s coming to them. It sucks to have things taken from you that you have worked hard for. At the end of the day, I don’t see it as something to get an altercation over.

[gdw]

Let's see, a scumbag tried to steal a bike, pulled a knife when confronted by the owner instead of retreating, got his butt badly kicked and ended up in the hospital...excellent! I bet he will think twice before trying that stunt again.

[Spdntrxi]

I’d put the thief in the hospital if he tried to steal my bike.. no issues with it at all. If I had a Walmart bike maybe not... but I don’t

[cadence90]

Or, where all this logic could very easily lead...

Thief tries to steal bicycle.
Owner decides to defend bicycle.
Owner brings weapon onto the scene.
Altercation ensues.
Thief dies, or owner dies, or both die.
Maybe some bystanders die as well.
John Wayne, he dies too.

All over a bicycle (but not a Walmart bicycle, after all...).

Ain't machismo grand.
.

[Mr. Pink]

What, no, he wasn't the sharpest tool in the parking lot jokes yet?

[gdw]

Never bring a knife to a knife sharpener fight.

[colker]

Or, where all this logic could very easily lead...

Thief tries to steal bicycle.
Owner decides to defend bicycle.
Owner brings weapon onto the scene.
Altercation ensues.
Thief dies, or owner dies, or both die.
Maybe some bystanders die as well.
John Wayne, he dies too.

All over a bicycle (but not a Walmart bicycle, after all...).

Ain't machismo grand.
.


It´s the internet: not always the brightest expression of mankind.:eek:

PS: if owner pulls that pencil sharpener where thieves pack fire power....

[cadence90]

It´s the internet: not always the brightest expression of mankind.:eek:

PS: if owner pulls that pencil sharpener where thieves pack fire power....

Yes, you're right of course. I just don't get it, the glorification of violence. I should stop feeling frustrated and sad about it, I guess, and just get /out.
.

[livingminimal]

Yes, you're right of course. I just don't get it, the glorification of violence. I should stop feeling frustrated and sad about it, I guess, and just get /out.
.

You know where you're posting, right?

[54ny77]

What if it was a Cutco? Never needs sharpening!!

Never bring a knife to a knife sharpener fight.

[jamesdak]

deleted

[Spdntrxi]

Or, where all this logic could very easily lead...



Thief tries to steal bicycle.

Owner decides to defend bicycle.

Owner brings weapon onto the scene.

Altercation ensues.

Thief dies, or owner dies, or both die.

Maybe some bystanders die as well.

John Wayne, he dies too.



All over a bicycle (but not a Walmart bicycle, after all...).



Ain't machismo grand.

.





What ya gonna say? Dude take it? Then it wouldn’t be theft anymore ;)

Of course you size up the perp.. not saying I’d always defend my bike against a gun for example ....

[LouDeeter]

And what I think about folks who think the owner was in the wrong......

[p nut]

Me, personally, I’d yell at him from a distance. Call the cops. I’d never engage. Sorry, even the slightest chance my life is in the hands of some low life, not worth it. Take the bike.

Of course, I’d probably not lock up my Strong outside either.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Well my first thought is that doesn’t sound very Canadian at all.

I wouldn’t get violent over a commuter bike but that’s just me.

[parris]

I could be very wrong but by reading the article the bike is probably the guys form of transportation so it's something that if stolen would've been tough to recover from. Again I'm not saying that I'm correct in this.

[Chris]

I'm a violence as the last alternative guy, but this blaming the victim stuff that's going on these days is a little out of control. From my reading of this, the guy is stealing the guy's bike. Owner confronts him and then the perp pulls a knife? Owner could have walked away at that point, but where is the criticism for the perp being violent there? The owner decides to defend himself and his property and a person who was breaking the law and about to assault another person takes a beating. Is that really so horrible?

[parris]

Very well stated Chris.

[pdonk]

Well my first thought is that doesn’t sound very Canadian at all.

I wouldn’t get violent over a commuter bike but that’s just me.

Knowing the neighbourhood it happened in, and the time of night, weird stuff happens there. Not that surprising that someone lost it on a thief.

Could be an extension of this type of thing:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/wall-of-shame-shoplift-chinatown-1.4242008

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/toronto-man-charged-for-catching-thief-has-day-in-court/article4289722/

[AngryScientist]

we're dong a good job of keeping this conversation civil - let's keep that up and remember that we can disagree without low blows.

[colker]

I don´t think the owner is in the wrong when he reacted. What i deem wrong is the internet party around the event, around violence, around taking justice in your own hands.
Life is not a Dirty Harry movie..
I believe the owner should not become an internet hero because the whole thing becomes close to extolling virtues of vigilante justice.
That´s just my opinion and the world is going the other direction. Results won´t be pretty.

[Chris]

I don´t think the owner is in the wrong when he reacted. What i deem wrong is the internet party around the event, around violence, around taking justice in your own hands.
Life is not a Dirty Harry movie..
I believe the owner should not become an internet hero because the whole thing becomes close to extolling virtues of vigilante justice.
That´s just my opinion and the world is going the other direction. Results won´t be pretty.

totally agree

[Mzilliox]

I don´t think the owner is in the wrong when he reacted. What i deem wrong is the internet party around the event, around violence, around taking justice in your own hands.
Life is not a Dirty Harry movie..
I believe the owner should not become an internet hero because the whole thing becomes close to extolling virtues of vigilante justice.
That´s just my opinion and the world is going the other direction. Results won´t be pretty.

yup, this times 100. carries over into everything in America right now. this wild west mentality is ridiculous. stop giving the attention to violence in any form. Of course this is a country who watches nascar, not because athletes, but because car crashes, and MMA because violence is lust worthy.

[oldpotatoe]

Yeah, because defending a damned bicycle is really so worth beating up another person, using a blunt-force deadly weapon and sending him to the hospital at the very least...and then crowing about it all on the internet is just so very cool.

:rolleyes:.:rolleyes:.:rolleyes:

Insane.
.

But but but it’s for a ‘bicycle’....:eek: I’m sure I would defend my others toys the same way(nope)...

[oldpotatoe]

Stealing my bikes will get you lead poisoning.

If he’s not on your property and if your life is not at risk, and you shot him, you’d be the one going jail, ‘make my day’ law or not.

[speedevil]

There is no vigilante justice at play here. Some lowlife tried to steal another's possessions and was caught by the rightful owner. There was justice here, but it wasn't vigilante justice.

And no, I'm not standing by while someone steals or attempts to steal something I've worked for. Anyone that brings a knife to a gunfight has made a serious mistake.

Anyone who sides with the perp against the rightful owner needs to have their head examined.

[jrsbike]

speedevil:

AGREED!!!

[speedevil]

If he’s not on your property and if your life is not at risk, and you shot him, you’d be the one going jail, ‘make my day’ law or not.

I would say that the perp didn't bring a knife to butter the owner's croissant. A knife can be a lethal weapon. My right to defend myself doesn't end at my property line, at least not in Kentucky.

1. trying to steal someone's bicycle

and

2. deciding to bring a knife and then trying to use it

doesn't exactly demonstrate good decision-making.

Sometimes there are serious consequences for bad decisions, and sometimes the consequences are immediate. I would bet a large sum of money and my freedom, that I would be sleeping in my own bed that night. The perp escalated the confrontation from stealing to attempting bodily harm, and paid a much smaller price than he could have. Being on the receiving end of an a**-kicking is getting off lightly from my perspective.

[William]

I'm a violence as the last alternative guy, but this blaming the victim stuff that's going on these days is a little out of control. From my reading of this, the guy is stealing the guy's bike. Owner confronts him and then the perp pulls a knife? Owner could have walked away at that point, but where is the criticism for the perp being violent there? The owner decides to defend himself and his property and a person who was breaking the law and about to assault another person takes a beating. Is that really so horrible?

When someone decides that they would rather steal someone else's hard earned property, instead of buying it themselves they take a chance. Most thieves don't want an altercation but the chance is there that one will happen. The perp had a knife so he armed himself just in case. He got caught and he decided to pull the knife...he has escalated the confrontation. A knife is a lethal weapon and once threatened the owner/detainer decided to neutralize the threat. I have no issue with that at all.

As far as being a hero? I don't know but I think he did the right thing to stop a thief and neutralize a violent threat. Good for him and I have zero empathy for someone who makes the decision to take what others have worked hard for and/or people who threaten violence to get what they want.







William

[Tony]

I have to admit, I would enjoy watching a knife wielding bike thief get his ass kicked.

[rousseau]

I would say that the perp didn't bring a knife to butter the owner's croissant. A knife can be a lethal weapon. My right to defend myself doesn't end at my property line, at least not in Kentucky.

1. trying to steal someone's bicycle

and

2. deciding to bring a knife and then trying to use it

doesn't exactly demonstrate good decision-making.

Sometimes there are serious consequences for bad decisions, and sometimes the consequences are immediate. I would bet a large sum of money and my freedom, that I would be sleeping in my own bed that night. The perp escalated the confrontation from stealing to attempting bodily harm, and paid a much smaller price than he could have. Being on the receiving end of an a**-kicking is getting off lightly from my perspective.
Um, this happened in Toronto, where we're thankfully immune from the deranged, idiotic gun culture of the U.S. Nobody on this thread has been defending the perpetrator, nor has anybody expressed any sympathy for him.

The obvious point that several people on this thread have been trying to make is that risking your life to prevent a material object like a bike from being stolen is not worth it. The bike owner was lucky he wasn't seriously injured or killed.

I can get another bike. But I can't get another life. Never mind the financial and emotional hardship you impose on them; think of the unbearable shame your survivors would have to live with if you were killed by confronting someone attempting to steal your bike. It would be like winning the Darwin Award (if you didn't already have kids).

[William]

Um, this happened in Toronto, where we're thankfully immune from the deranged, idiotic gun culture of the U.S.

Not to the point, and not the point.

The obvious point that several people on this thread have been trying to make is that risking your life to prevent a material object like a bike from being stolen is not worth it. The bike owner was lucky he wasn't seriously injured or killed.

The first thing I always teach about edged weapons is run away as fast as you can...if you can. That said, did the perp flash the knife to scare or did he make a move to cause bodily harm? According to the article... "He fought the thief off causing injury..." which would indicate the perp possibly attacked in which case the bike owner may not have been able to move off safely and chose to defend himself turning the tables and saving himself from grievous harm. The owner may have just wanted to stop the guy from stealing his bike and found himself with his life threatened.

The article isn't really clear on this so its speculation at this point.

Some people think they would do nothing and call the police while the thief makes off with their property, others claim they would confront the thief to stop them in the act, I don't think most people know for sure until they actually see it happening and work through the adrenaline dump.







William

[colker]

Not to the point, and not the point.



The first thing I always teach about edged weapons is run away as fast as you can...if you can. That said, did the perp flash the knife to scare or did he make a move to cause bodily harm? According to the article... "He fought the thief off causing injury..." which would indicate the perp possibly attacked in which case the bike owner may not have been able to move off safely and chose to defend himself turning the tables and saving himself from grievous harm. The owner may have just wanted to stop the guy from stealing his bike and found himself with his life threatened.

The article isn't really clear on this so its speculation at this point.

Some people think they would do nothing and call the police while the thief makes off with their property, others claim they would confront the thief to stop them in the act, I don't think most people know for sure until they actually see it happening and work through the adrenaline dump.







William

What about a good lock and insurance instead of punishing thieves w/ razor blades or getting killed?

[William]

What about a good lock and insurance instead of punishing thieves w/ razor blades or getting killed?

Easy call from the comfort of wherever you are sitting.

I don't know if the guy can afford insurance or a good lock? Both are good measures for sure. It doesn't really matter at this point because what went down already went down. Learn from it what you can and move on.

As far as the perp, I'm not happy anyone got beaten but he wouldn't have had his backside kicked if he hadn't tried stealing someone else's property and then threatening them. Tell me I'm wrong.







William

[parris]

Colker one of the things we don't know is if the owner had a lock on the bike or not. Let's say that he had a lock on the bike but the thief was able to defeat it. One of the things I got from the article was that the bike owner was working at a bar/restaurant late at night. Just reading between the lines the owner may not be in a place where he can replace the bike easily.

Many of us on the board are at a place where we own multiple bicycles. I'm a perfect example of that in that I own 5 road and 2 mtn bikes. If someone stole one of my bikes I'd be bummed BUT it would take me as long as pumping up tires in order to be back on the road.

[zzy]

Um, this happened in Toronto, where we're thankfully immune from the deranged, idiotic gun culture of the U.S.

4 of my friends have been murdered by handguns in Toronto - don't think for a second we're immune to gun violence. I am a big fan of Canada's rational gun laws, but they don't stop the criminals. I don't want this to be a debate, but it's a deeply personal issue for me.

I lived 2 blocks away from where this incident occurred for 3 years (Dension and Dundas) and this is a very very common thing. Drug addicts regularly prowl at night to steal anything they can, and I've personally stopped 3 bike thefts. Most of the time all you had to do was say the cops were called and they'd run. The cops in turn didn't give a eff about attempted theft and wouldn't even pretend to look for the perp. This was also during Igor Kenk's reign of terror where he amassed literally THOUSANDS of stolen bikes by paying drug addicts with crack rocks or cocaine for delivering them to his crapshack on Queen and Strachan. Honestly cyclists in Toronto really felt like we had no one protecting us or our property, and I bet feeling still persists. If someone saw someone else messing with a bike or stealing a wheel they'd often stick their head in the nearest bar and a posse would form right away. But it barely deterred theft, which was desperate and brazen.

I've been avoiding posting in this thread, but I am glad this guy stood up for himself and got a criminal off the streets (concealed weapons are a very serious charge in Ontario). When I was a broke student my bike was my lifeline. I had no money to buy another or even take TTC. I guarded it religiously, and I'd bet anyone working in a kitchen has a similar attitude. To those for whom a bike is their only form of transport, not a toy to be ridden on weekends, its theft is a deeply emotional issue. The utterly brazen amount of bike theft in Toronto made it very hard to be a cyclist, but we all looked out for each other and it made all the difference.

[eBAUMANN]

if i saw someone stealing my bike, i would 100% confront them.
9.8 times out of 10 the thief will take off running.

if they dont, keep your distance and call the police while getting the attention of anyone else nearby.

to sit and watch your stuff get jacked out of fear for your life is pretty absurd...

petty thieves will almost never carry/use weapons unless they are absolute morons...as the penalty for ARMED ______ is usually far greater.

[livingminimal]

Easy call from the comfort of wherever you are sitting.



Dude. It was a bike.

[rousseau]

4 of my friends have been murdered by handguns in Toronto - don't think for a second we're immune to gun violence. I am a big fan of Canada's rational gun laws, but they don't stop the criminals. I don't want this to be a debate, but it's a deeply personal issue for me.
Not wanting to take this too far off topic (though that's the fault of the idiots bloviating about blowing away bike thieves with guns), and I'm sorry for your incredibly terrible luck at having four friends killed by handguns, but it needs to be said: I said we don't have the "culture," I didn't say that we have no gun violence whatsoever, because that's not true anywhere in the world. Our gun laws do very much indeed stop people from using guns in crimes at rates occurring in war-torn countries, countries with dystopian social conditions, or one particularly notable first world country.

[livingminimal]

I would certainly confront someone taking something that belonged to me.
I'd hope that would be enough via intimidation or presence (I am 6'4", 260lbs, covered in tattoos, and I know how to use what Dario calls "the greatest tools ever invented" more than competently). I'm also a Buddhist in a state of personal flux over the last decade or so and I find it hard to completely disavow some forms of violence (there's debate about the merits of this anyway, it would depend on whether or not this falls into the zone of "resolving conflict").

If a weapon came out, Id politely see my way out, and turn over my wallet too. I have a wife and kids at home. It's just a bike. It's replaceable, no matter how important it is to me. My life is not.

To some of the commentary around the Wild West cowboy mentality, there is no denying that's where we're at, but I dont know about the intersection here. We (America for sure, but were not alone, and I fear its getting worse) seem captivated by this infantile fantasy of being a cover boy for Soldier of Fortune magazine. Call it rugged individualism or whatever, but it isnt conducive to this evolving world. It probably hasnt been for 40-50 years or something. I could go deep down the rabbit hole of the reasons why this is all happening, but it'll derail the thread, and piss off/offend the average Paceline demographic.

[rousseau]

Look, I'm glad the thief got his comeuppance. Who knows, maybe it really will convince him to mend his ways?

I also know the adrenaline charge you get when being wronged, and I've said things during confrontations on the road that in retrospect I regret. I'm sure I would have run out to confront the thief if it were my bike being stolen, too.

But the moment a deadly weapon comes out? The smart move is to back off. Unless you live completely alone and have no significant others depending on you, the only reasonable move is to give up the stuff and, you know...live.

[William]

Not wanting to take this too far off topic ...


Then don't. I already pointed out that it wasn't the point in this topic in reference to your earlier comment and here you are doing it again with another shot about U.S. gun culture. Stay on topic, I won't say it again.

Not wanting to take this too far off topic (though that's the fault of the idiots bloviating about blowing away bike thieves with guns), and I'm sorry for your incredibly terrible luck at having four friends killed by handguns, but it needs to be said: I said we don't have the "culture," I didn't say that we have no gun violence whatsoever, because that's not true anywhere in the world. Our gun laws do very much indeed stop people from using guns in crimes at rates occurring in war-torn countries, countries with dystopian social conditions, or one particularly notable first world country.

Your condolences are fine, it's the rest of it that is trying to steer this thread somewhere else...







William

[tuscanyswe]

:cool:

[colker]

Colker one of the things we don't know is if the owner had a lock on the bike or not. Let's say that he had a lock on the bike but the thief was able to defeat it. One of the things I got from the article was that the bike owner was working at a bar/restaurant late at night. Just reading between the lines the owner may not be in a place where he can replace the bike easily.

Many of us on the board are at a place where we own multiple bicycles. I'm a perfect example of that in that I own 5 road and 2 mtn bikes. If someone stole one of my bikes I'd be bummed BUT it would take me as long as pumping up tires in order to be back on the road.

I am not worried about judging the owner. I said that already.
I just don´t like the idea of extolling the virtues of violent self defense on the internet.
it´s ridiculous to say the least. We are all grown ups here. Way past our irresponsible youth.

[cadence90]

The article isn't really clear on this so its speculation at this point.
So, given that the speculation exists, no one "side" can legitimately claim to be "right", nor can one "side" justifiably condemn the other.

And yet that is exactly what is happening here, typically, yet again.

What about a good lock and insurance instead of punishing thieves w/ razor blades or getting killed?
Even more simple: starting with basic common sense as a premise would be even less expensive, less aggressive, less risky, but also less "heroic", of course.

So many of the comments in this thread have next to nothing to do with common sense and almost everything to do with the glorification of vigilante violence. That's the most sad part, to me at least.

Easy call from the comfort of wherever you are sitting.
Likewise from wherever you are, wherever we all are, right?

I am not worried about judging the owner. I said that already.
I just don´t like the idea of extolling the virtues of violent self defense on the internet.
it´s ridiculous to say the least. We are all grown ups here. Way past our irresponsible youth.

Exactly.

Last two sentences: I'm not so sure, but one can always hope.
.

[colker]

So many of the comments in this thread have next to nothing to do with common sense...
[/COLOR]

A stolen bike which was left outside in the street has very little to do w/ "defending my family".

[speedevil]

I just don´t like the idea of extolling the virtues of violent self defense on the internet.

Maybe, but I definitely prefer that to reading about pending funeral arrangements for crime victims.

[colker]

Maybe, but I definitely prefer that to reading about pending funeral arrangements for crime victims.

Violent reaction to criminals most likely end up badly according to statistics and cops advice.

[speedevil]

Violent reaction to criminals most likely end up badly according to statistics and cops advice.

Sadly, I believe you are correct about those stats. Still, there is anecdotal evidence that the good guy does win - sometimes. Not nearly often enough, but sometimes. To quote one of my favorite movies "This is one of those times."

[William]

And I think we've run the course on this. If any new evidence comes out we'll see about reopening it or starting a new thread.






William